Too many people ignorant about drugs

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Originally Posted by Stedric

Drug addiction is a disease, not a moral choice. I'm very, very tired of people suggesting otherwise. Groups like Alcoholics Anonymous have taken a step towards treating alcoholism as a neurological disease, and not a question of "morality" (and absurd idea). Relevant studies show only genetic and psychological/neurological precursors.

So it is not a question of "fault" at all.

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Well, I didn't say anything about morals. So you think I believe drugs are bad? :rolleyes:

In fact, I agree with you that it's a disease. A disease similar to an STD in that.. well.. you play with fire and you get burned. An individual genetically predisposed to drug-addiction isn't going to get addicted unless he puts himself in that position. Willpower comes into play when making the decision to at least only use occasionally, the same as that willpower will prevent someone from raping someone else. My father was a tweaker, and I do consider myself to have an addictive personality, but I KNOW WHEN TO RESTRAIN MYSELF.

I know alllllllll about twelve step programs. My mother volunteered and ran an Alateen meeting for two years at my old high school. She was a sponsor for several people who attended Al-anon. I wouldn't present this as fact, but I read on these boards that the success rate for alcoholics quitting, in and out of AA, were the same.

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Originally Posted by bonsaiguy

You're absolutely right about what people choose to believe. Peoples egos are so much more powerful that we think and pretty much everyone thinks that they are unquestionably right about a given subject. And because they believe something so deeply, they can't fathom how anyone could possibly disagree with what seems so obvious to them. (we are all guilty of this, expecially me) That's why I quit arguing with holy rollers, democans and republicrats a long time ago. Live and let live so to speak. The jury is still out on the effects of MJ, especially on the brain. For every opinion or study there are conflicting studies that have come to the opposite conclusion. Then there are the studies that consist of compilations of other peoples studies. Give me a break. The line between use and abuse is very very fine. One should never stop honestly wondering which side of this line you are on and if you can't honestly figure it out...find someone who can help you sort it out. That being said, I am a firm believer that we all need to learn these things for ourselves and should have the freedom to do so.

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Well said. However, I don't think there is a line between use and abuse. imo the only line is the timeline and use and abuse both sit on the same line. Normal use turns to abuse at some point simply because it is literally not possible to maintain the SAME amount of use and have the same effects over and over. After the 1st few months with any drug, all you do is desperately (deep inside) search for the same high when you first start using the drug. You may still very much enjoy the experience but you always look for the good old days. That is why a lot of smokers I know including me "use" marijuana for a while, then "abuse" for a while, then you start realizing the unwanted things more than wanted effects, and quit for a while, then rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by otsever

Well said. However, I don't think there is a line between use and abuse. imo the only line is the timeline and use and abuse both sit on the same line. Normal use turns to abuse at some point simply because it is literally not possible to maintain the SAME amount of use and have the same effects over and over. After the 1st few months with any drug, all you do is desperately (deep inside) search for the same high when you first start using the drug. You may still very much enjoy the experience but you always look for the good old days. That is why a lot of smokers I know including me "use" marijuana for a while, then "abuse" for a while, then you start realizing the unwanted things more than wanted effects, and quit for a while, then rinse and repeat.

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Good points all, but I just can't get on that bus. There is a line, as difficult as it may be to define, between use and abuse and I would venture to say, without actually knowing you, that you are staying on the use side based on the fact that you are honest enough with yourself to occasionally back off. I have been through those cycles myself and will probably (I hope) go through them again. Abusers/addicts have lost the ability to make that distinction or at least to act on it. It is also quite dependent on how it affects you life, work, family, self esteem, sexual function, etc etc etc. Oh what a tangled web we weave in our amazingly complex and fragile human psyche's. It also is affected by your reasons for using in the first place which are in turn affected by your upbringing and environment and the ever popular genetic makeup. (and if the Adam and Eve thing is true then we didn't have a chance since the gene pool was effed from day one) And one more item is the addictive nature of a substance itself. Not all substances are physically addictive or involve the brutal and even life threatening effects of drugs like heroine or booze. One of the few premises of the 12 step movement that I do agree with is that each must decide for oneself which side of the line they are on.

i believe some people in fact con themselves into being addicted (mainly because theres a word addiction) because they either want to belong to a group or they are using it as an escape from whatever therefore labelled addicts, you can oonly be an addict if you cant gave up when you want too, therefore psycologically weak (they arnt fully committed in there mind to quit)

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Originally Posted by Hi my name is....

i believe some people in fact con themselves into being addicted (mainly because theres a word addiction) because they either want to belong to a group or they are using it as an escape from whatever therefore labelled addicts, you can oonly be an addict if you cant gave up when you want too, therefore psycologically weak (they arnt fully committed in there mind to quit)

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That's not altogether true Name since an addict can go a long time without using if they know that they will eventually use again. Expecially true of alcoholics. And you'll just have to trust me when I say that although there is a psychological component involved that some(mostly republicrats) say is a form of weakness of character or psyche, there are also definite physical aspects to addiction that are proven facts and are related to genetics and brain chemistry.

But you're right, some people do con themselves in to thinking they are addicts along with a host of other diseases. A waste is a terrible thing to mind.

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Originally Posted by bonsaiguy

That's not altogether true Name since an addict can go a long time without using if they know that they will eventually use again. Expecially true of alcoholics. And you'll just have to trust me when I say that although there is a psychological component involved that some(mostly republicrats) say is a form of weakness of character or psyche, there are also definite physical aspects to addiction that are proven facts and are related to genetics and brain chemistry.

But you're right, some people do con themselves in to thinking they are addicts along with a host of other diseases. A waste is a terrible thing to mind.

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fair enough im just into the whole mind power and belief in yourself vibe i feel our minds are alot more powerful the maybe we are lead to beleive or think( on the basis we only use 20% OR whatever the number is of our brain) example people who see the future or respond with the dead or can hypnotise people etc are maybe tappin into different parts of the brain that most of us arnt using, although i cant see the future i have seen out of it shit to do with stuff moving by its self, possibly spirits or maybe it was our minds moving it( wbout 10 of us did a "saounce" cant spell sorry), any way random question have you ever done a marijuana bonsai

i like drugs

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Originally Posted by Hi my name is....

fair enough im just into the whole mind power and belief in yourself vibe i feel our minds are alot more powerful the maybe we are lead to beleive or think( on the basis we only use 20% OR whatever the number is of our brain) example people who see the future or respond with the dead or can hypnotise people etc are maybe tappin into different parts of the brain that most of us arnt using, although i cant see the future i have seen out of it shit to do with stuff moving by its self, possibly spirits or maybe it was our minds moving it( wbout 10 of us did a "saounce" cant spell sorry), any way random question have you ever done a marijuana bonsai

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It's seance, and I agree that we have not tapped anything near our potential.
And no, since MJ is an annual, which means it drops seeds and dies every year, it wouldn't work. But the thought has crossed my mind. And in fact, we have actually had plainclothes cops visit our nursery from time to time because they see the greenhouse and light and wonder what's up. You'd think they have better things to do with their time.

To clarify, this whole thing about using 10%, or 20%, or whatever % of our brains is 100% false. we use all our brains. In the 1930's psychics started the rumors that we only use 10% of our brains and that they had figured out how to use it all and that's why they are psychic. if you ask any neurosurgeon and otherwise person experienced in the brain, they'll tell you it's just a popular myth. but, you tell a lie a million times and pretty soon it becomes a fact that people take for granted.

"We'll attack!! attack attack the fetal serving tubes
We'll attack! attack, attack, attack with pesticides
We'll attack! from all the years of propaganda
WE'LL ATTACK!
ATTACK!!!!!
-S.O.A.D