Would you buy this vertical growing unit?

i appreciate your uncandid approach ALH. i mean no disrespect with my posts either. you have not offended me. and my choice of words could have been better with "shitty mockup", i do apologize. you asked for feedback, i gave feedback. honest, unadultrated feedback. all, in my opinion, valid points, with no ill-will cast your way. i merely used what you posted in your side of things and dissected it and rebutted, such as any good debate, er, constructive conversation.

i don't have any hands on experience with vertical growing, but i have a great grasp on how plants work and i also understand physics and light works.

i did see the part about tentatively priced. if you read just below that you said that opinions are welcome, and i felt free to post mine.


-shake

OK boys and girls, let me see if I can shed some light as to why this thing bothers me. It seems headshake has hit upon one of the things that bothers me, lack of reading comprehension. Atlashomeric, I read your reply to me early this AM, but decided to go back to bed and sleep on it. My original intent was to just leave you with one snarky post then forget it, but you're reply bothers me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atlashomeric

hey oldmac,
If it isn't true aeroponics I'd think it's pretty close.
No it is not. There is a major difference between between aero and water culture hydro.
You are using the word "aeroponic" to sell the thing, even tho it is not aeroponics.

I mean if anything FAG is easier to maintain than a 100 psi system I'm sure.
I said a 200psi sytem, and again you are wrong. In a TAG system the on cycle time is about 5 seconds with off times rangeing from fifteen to thirty minute off. Your pump is going to have to run much longer in it's on time (ie: 10-15 minutes) and will have to cycle more often. At 50psi you are going to have more problems with clogging and such, with higher pressure this is less of a problem even tho it requires misters that are much smaller. I use pumps by either Aquatec or SurFlo, these are a lot more rugged then some chinese crap 50psi pump.

Plus, it's not the main selling point of this system. The point is that every component works together to produce a great yield at a great GPW efficiency. It's not like someone is 'not' going to buy the unit because it doesn't have a NASA aero setup and yet still knowing that they could be getting around 3 lbs per run on a 600 watt HPS in the system.
This is what really rubs me the wrong way, this is total BS! This is the same marketing hype used by the sellers of cheap, chinese LED grow lights. Oh this 90w LED will repalce a 600w HPS or even 400w, it's just BS, that has caused oh so many uninformed to buy and then been disappointed. These people then run around screaming LEDs don't work!

Doing a little quick math, to get 3lbs (I'm assumming dried, cured bud) that means you need to achieve almost 1/2oz per plant (actual 13.44gr). Your new or average grower will be sorely disappointed. As Rusty has in his signature:

Your disappointments grow in direct proportions to your expectations - RustyTrichome

I'm a little stoned but I think that makes sense :wtf: So, to clarify, TAG or FAG, I really don't think it'll sell any better or less.
OK so this is either a pipe dream or you are just interested in selling crap to the uninformed. Seems you are just interested in selling something then in being accurate in it's discription or it's potential to grow.

That was my insight into the matter. Thanks for comments,
A

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Tell you what A,
I've been growing cannabis in one form or another now for 70yrs. The past 20 have been with what are called advanced systems, such as NFT. My personal grow for the past 6 yrs is a rotating garden and in the last few years experimenting then building aero/fog systems. I have a pretty good grasp of SOG size plants and think I have a handle on what is possible.

I'm willing to bet good money you cannot achieve 3lbs per run with it, even if you went to 1000w light. Wanna bet?
BTW before you ask me about vertical growing, no I have not done it. I checked out a Coliseum a year or so ago for use with a Theroreme Innovations LED vertical grow light, was interested but passed on it to move on to aero/fog.
OM

hey oldmac,
Sorry I didn't mean to rub anybody the wrong way. As of now, my intent wasn't to sell this product; it's not even in production. As far as I know the next step is going to be a journal grow on a few sites like this.
Concerning aeroponics, I'm not an expert, either is the company that builds the product. I may have talked about TAG systems but I know that you're right in saying it's not true aeroponics. But, to play the devil's advocate a little, there quite a few products that are hot sellers right now that are labeled as "aeroponic" and are not. I know that the general population of growers thinks "aeroponic" when they hear there are sprayers. That is the marketing that the company is going with concerning the nutrient delivery... what doesn't confuse people. Because YES, they could advertise it as a NFT/Hydro/Faux Aero System, but that would confuse most buyers. So if they have to advertise as faux aero, then so be it.

Concerning the pump times, this systems is on for a matter of seconds too. Not that it makes it anyless faux aero, but just to clarify. In test runs, there hasn't been any problems with clogging due to an inline filter. I'm not certain of where the pump is originated from either, could be china, not sure. From what I've seen it's pretty durable unit though that's lasted through the entire R&D process.

As for the expected yield, you're right, most new and average growers will not be pulling in 0.5 oz per plant, in fact they may not be able to keep all 100 plants alive as far as I know. But for sales purposes, it will be sold under the premise that it is POSSIBLE to yield 0.5 oz per plant. And why not, it will help sell it, and it's not a lie.

If you want to see a journal grow that yielded more than .5 oz per plant from one 600w HPS light in a system with almost the exact dimensions as this units check out this link.

Heaths flooded tube vertical.

He used a flooded system with I think 14 fewer plants than this system and got 46 oz dry. It's a long journal but definitely worth the read.

Also, I noticed you said you've had 70yrs growing experience, how old are you? I mean at least 80 right? And you're hitting up these forums and growing with these new types of growing too, that's awesome for someone your age. I commend you sir or ma'am.

However, even with A LOT of experience growing under your belt, I can't really use too much of your criticism on the efficiency aspect of the unit if you haven't had any vertical growing experience (I have only assisted in a few grows myself). Yes, it's based on the same principles of growing as horizontal, but where I think people get tripped up is the spacial arrangement issue. If you've only used horizontal grow techniques your whole career as a grower then there will inevitably be some speculation into different methods.
I hope to keep these discussions clean and respectful. Thanks,

A

For the record, this company engineers and manufactures LEDs too. So they're aware of marketing hype in the industry. But what I'm doing isn't marketing hype because I haven't and will not disclose the company's name or contact info. It's just research and development procedure.

Apologies, the 27GPM pump I was thinking of ended up being a manual pump, not an automatic.

Hey Atlashomeric,

Seen/saw the Heath flooded tube, and I see you relize that it is not aeroponic, it is in fact an "ebb & flo" system. Sooo you are comparing apple/oranges for growing methods. Fine.

Yes I am old (and you can call me sir) nearly 81. I've been providing mmj to cancer patients and people in hospice care for 25+ years now. Since I pre-date most medical mj and live in a non med state, I provide meds for no cost to patients. I also provide plant starts, usually in Pro-Mix to some other cancer and Aids groups in nearby towns, for them to grow out. I started out at age 10 on a tobacco farm, but we grew 2 types of hemp. I now now the tall lanky fiber plants was an Indian sativa and we grew russian hemp, which I now know was a ruderalis; for seeds to be pressed out for oil. At age 12 I was shown what the workers were doing in the hedge rows, growing female only seedless stuff. It wasn't till years later I realized it was marijuana, I knew it as "wild wood weed".

I still think the 3lb/600w is total BS, the only way to reach that would be to use co2, properly and even then with a 1kw HPS.

I'll give you credit for maintaining your composure as compared to most hucksters.

I would make one suggestion, lower the plant count by 1, to 99 to stay under federal law.

Good luck
OM

it's pretty funny as well that you guys basically ripped off someone's design, have the audacity to post the link to it....not to mention the original makes use of 45degree pieces. lol. flex pvc would work just as well for this.

good point Old Mac, er, sir. they really have their customers in mind, thinking of the laws and all don't they.

and to top it all off they are using mis-leading advertising hype. .5 GPW, aeroponics etc etc. and the line "Concerning it's coverage, I know from their previous test and where they got their initial idea that one 600w was sufficient for the exact dimensions that defines this unit, and the yield was large enough to pay for this unit three to five fold depending on where you live" just goes to prove that all your are is a salesman. trying to sell the sizzle, not the steak.


-shake

Call me a salesman, but like I said before, I'm not a part of this company and
I'm not disclosing any info about this company that would allow you to purchase the unit, if they were even selling the unit. But if people start speculating on "tentative" price in comparison to the possible yield and efficiency then I'm of course going to comment on that aspect in response. As far as taking a design and essentially adding to it, that has been happening since the beginning of time, at least they're not hiding who the original architect is. Heath really knows his stuff when it comes to horticultural design, I know personally that he wasn't going to try and patent or market his system.
I think it would only be advertising if there were a product at hand, as of now there is a prototype that is in stages of testing. If you can figure out who the company that sells this product is through what info there is here then I'll call myself a salesman.
Otherwise like I said, right now I'm noting the constructive feedback and reporting is to the company. Thanks,

A

So what's the grams per kilowatt-hour?

Grams per kilowatt hour, I don't know. It's not as high in California ;)

You mention a better yield with two 600w. Why not sell the unit this way? If it's already been R&D'd enough to get three pounds, why not a single flippin' pic? I figure with two 600w I'd get prolly 5 pounds. Too bad they can only be 6 inch tall plants with no side shoots. Your best bet would be to scour the internet for any mention of Heath's $1000 dollar lunar module grow room and take out any servers holding that info. Two G's for hula hoops is silly. FAIL.