Philosophy of Religion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Also, I hate how God is always He. I would love to see equality already in this world, it's long overdue. I can't stand feminists though.

---

I don't agree with people who insist that God is male or female. I think there is an explanation for it. Through out human history we have been mostly living patriarchal, and less often matriarchal, groups. These arrangements must have had survival value in our remote past. When thinkers, who were contemplating the nature of the world around them, began to have thoughts of a higher power, they thought in terms of male and female. I doubt there was anything malicious about it. It just seemed logical to them at the time.

There are many cultures who still live in societies that are patriarchal or matriarchal. This seems to be diminishing. Even so, people think in terms of gender. They even refer to inanimate objects in ways that suggest gender.

I call God him or his sometimes. I try not to, but I do it anyway. I was raised in a family who believed that God is a male figure. So it was pounded into my head from an early age. I don't think God is male though, I only use male gender to describe God because of habit.

God doesn't have gender. Gender is something living organisms have. Gender is something we need to procreate. God has no need to reproduce, therefore no need of gender.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

The question now is, is it possible to give that force a name? Something we don't understand? Do we even comprehend perfection? I think not.

---

Sure! Humanity has been giving the forces of nature names from the start. Naming things is necessary. We have to give names to things real and imagined so we can communicate thoughts about them. The name really doesn't matter. God is what God is.

If man can comprehend the existence of the universe and of reality, they can comprehend perfection. Man's comprehension falls short when we have preconceived notions about that perfection or when we try to decide what perfection is. What exists in the universe is perfect for the universe otherwise it wouldn't exist. Sense the universe is all that it is composed of, it is also perfect.

Some may say we are not perfect because we fail and die. Having failure and death is just as much a part of man as success and life. The way we work is perfect for our place in the scheme of things. This is true even if it seems that we do things that are imperfect. This is so even if we change over time.

People only need to realize, it is not us who decides perfection. Reality is the decider of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pepurr

The belief in God is not illogical. What is illogical is the way humans have portrayed God. The attributes we have given God.

So is believing in God illogical? I think not. What is illogical is the manner in which we believe in God. :hippy:

---

Perhaps I should have said belief in religion's god is illogical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pepurr

Through out human history we have been mostly living patriarchal, and less often matriarchal, groups. These arrangements must have had survival value in our remote past. When thinkers, who were contemplating the nature of the world around them, began to have thoughts of a higher power, they thought in terms of male and female. I doubt there was anything malicious about it. It just seemed logical to them at the time.

---

I agree with your assessment of how the one god came to be though of as masculine. Pantheon gods had both male and female attributes, though the top dog was most always a male figure.

I'll got a step further. When humans began to contemplate higher being(s), they logically assigned human attributes. The human race has "created" god(s), not the other way around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

The question now is, is it possible to give that force a name? Something we don't understand? Do we even comprehend perfection?

---

Pepurr is right about our innate need to name things. I use the name Tao, others use Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Rha, Mohammad, etc.

I believe much as perpurr that there is a god that is everything, including ourselves. I do not believe in a personal god that cares or responds to anything in a human way.

We can't even really comprehend the sheer numbers of galaxies in our observable universe. To understand "god" one must first understand the universe. In that respect, science is doing more to define what god is than religion that only seeks to solidify and propagate a self-contained image of god who "wants" you to behave in certain ways (what ways depend on the religion) and believe in certain things (again depending on the religion).

My point though was the kind of God we're talking about is not gender specific, is perfection and imperfection, is everything.. Oneness..

Everything already has a name though.. Universe.

I'm just trying to draw conclusions here, and it's tough man. This is the first time I've contemplated the notion of God in this light. I keep coming back to my ego-loss experiences and the more I relate God in the senses I felt in those times.. the stranger it is, but also the more sense it makes at the same time.

Fuck now I am just confusing myself :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

My point though was the kind of God we're talking about is not gender specific, is perfection and imperfection, is everything.. Oneness..

---

Well, is perfection and what we see as imperfection. It is sort of like the concept of chaos. We look at some things and occurrences, and see chaos. For God there is no chaos. For God there can only be order. We see chaos because we do not fully understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Everything already has a name though.. Universe.

---

Maybe! Some people might call God's name multi-verse. The name is unimportant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

I'm just trying to draw conclusions here, and it's tough man. This is the first time I've contemplated the notion of God in this light. I keep coming back to my ego-loss experiences and the more I relate God in the senses I felt in those times.. the stranger it is, but also the more sense it makes at the same time.

Fuck now I am just confusing myself :D

---

Keep seeking the truth. You are young, and God willing, you will have many years to seek truth. It will not come over night. The truth, and more importantly understanding (truth is worthless without understanding), will come with experience, study and meditation.

Never be like the ones who believe they have all the right answers. Always question everything. Keep an open mind, and do not close it off to new knowledge. Knowledge is a gift of God and wisdom is bought with time.

When people get angry with you because you question things or because you don't believe the way they do, wish them well and walk away. They have the reward they seek. But if they wish to debate in good will and calmly, join the debate and learn from them, and they can learn from you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Today in my phil of religion class, my professor posed a simple question:

Is it rational to believe in God?

Me, I say no. Since rationality is a product of rules of the human mind, and since God exceeds the limits of the human mind, then God also exceeds rationality.

Give your opinion and back it up with a logical argument.

---

Rationality is the product of "rules of the human mind". if you mean to say the nature and physics of the human brain, then rationality is a product of nature and not science.

If you mean the rules which humans create in their minds, then rationality is irrationally founded.



However, if the physics of the human brain are the source of rationality, then human beings could not be or act irrationally.

The universe exceeds rationality?


I cant fit all of reality in my head, but all of reality still exists... how is that for your model of rationality?

A product of the human mind meaning that we, as individuals or societies or religions, decide what is rational. It's make-believe is what I'm trying to say.

You can't go blaming everything on nature dude. There is also nurture to be accounted for. We are a combination of who we want to be and what we are shaped to be. Your past never leaves you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

A product of the human mind meaning that we, as individuals or societies or religions, decide what is rational. It's make-believe is what I'm trying to say.

---

I agree with you here. All those things are a product of the human mind. The genesis was the very group behavior that made homo sapiens so successful when plainly outgunned by the competition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

You can't go blaming everything on nature dude. There is also nurture to be accounted for. We are a combination of who we want to be and what we are shaped to be. Your past never leaves you.

---

Nurture isn't absolute either. A study of twins that were separated for adoption found that the twins developed very similar personality traits even under much different environments.

Also a negative environment can motivate a person to overcome and "succeed" despite that person's upbringing. Similarly, a person raised with love, encouragement, and all the breaks can still grow up to be a serious jerk. Just saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

A product of the human mind meaning that we, as individuals or societies or religions, decide what is rational. It's make-believe is what I'm trying to say.

You can't go blaming everything on nature dude. There is also nurture to be accounted for. We are a combination of who we want to be and what we are shaped to be. Your past never leaves you.

---

AH, Nature is the natural nurturer, dude.
The universe is one gigantic ecosystem that is constantly nurturing itself naturally.

As is the human body.

As is the earth.


We, human bodied people, have to take efforts into nurturing ourselves, but nature also provides for us, which is, in effect, nurturing us, like a mother nurtures her child.
Religion and Civilization are irrational byproducts of irresponsible and un-matured minds, fearful of reality, of nature.

When one is negligent of their natural, internal, nurturing, one will assume that external nurturing is all there is available.

Yes, I realize this. I believe that we are all one. We all came from an infinite point of singularity after all.

But you are totally missing my point. Largely due to humanity's historically consistent ignorance, we have arisen from this oneness into a state of consciousness separate from the whole. In this separation, we have, on our own terms, instilled rights, wrongs, morals, and the like.

Indeed, there is a universal consciousness. But all that are part of it do not necessarily perceive it as such. At least not yet. We are in that state of limbo right now. Hence our notions of right and wrong.

An example would be the "right" way to raise a child, which is not necessarily the "natural" way to raise a child.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Yes, I realize this. I believe that we are all one. We all came from an infinite point of singularity after all.

But you are totally missing my point. Largely due to humanity's historically consistent ignorance, we have arisen from this oneness into a state of consciousness separate from the whole. In this separation, we have, on our own terms, instilled rights, wrongs, morals, and the like.

Indeed, there is a universal consciousness. But all that are part of it do not necessarily perceive it as such. At least not yet. We are in that state of limbo right now. Hence our notions of right and wrong.

An example would be the "right" way to raise a child, which is not necessarily the "natural" way to raise a child.

---

The idea is that we need to take responsibility, not just let it go and watch it destroy everything.


WE, HUMAN BEINGS, are responsible for creating a monster. it is up to no other entity but our collective selves to slay this monster, lest we allow it to dominate our world, our lives, and our futures.


Do we want to submit to a mechanical demon of our own creation, that has been fueled with the "right" to take every last resource in the universe for it's own personal benefit, regardless of how it affects it's own creators, us? :wtf: