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I have to ask, by this same logic don't you have to assume that a being complicated enough to create all of this complication can't have happened by itself/himself/herself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
If your answer is yes god could have "just always been there". Then the answer and your justification for it works for the universe as well. Therefore, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak?
it's hard to wrap your mind around someone/something as complex as God. man thinks of himself as a pretty smart cookie. we think we've got it all figured out and can explain away so many things with our minute bit of knowledge. who was it, einstein who said, "we don't know 1/10th of one percent about anything?" i happen to believe he's right. most of our knowledge is based on theory. theory that we "made up" by the way!
It's hard to wrap your mind around the complexity of the Universe. Man does not have it all figured out. However, most of our knowledge is based on theories that have been rigorously and scientifically tested to try to prove them wrong. I could counter with the fact that believers think they have it all figured out. They have put their faith in the existence of god with no more proof for it than the mathematical theories currently trying to explain what we observe happening in our universe. They believe in a god. IMHO god was "made up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
I didn't ask you if you could wrap your mind around the complexity of god.
Let's use some simple logic here:
The universe had to be created because it is so complex.
God is complex.
God had to be created because he/she/it is so complex.
Using the complexity of the universe to prove the existence of a creator only opens the door to an infinity of creators. That's logic 101.
To deal with this, believers say "we can't understand god" or something to that effect. I say we can't understand the universe, however that doesn't prove the existence of a god anymore than the complex nature of the universe.
i, by no means, have anything figured out. i def have faith! but there are loads of ancient texts/documents that add credence to God. no one is digging up any ancient texts concerning theories like tectonic plates, the big bang theory or evolution etc. you have the right to believe/not believe anything you like, that's your right! but when your on an airplane, and that sucker is gonna crash, i wonder if you may not change your mind about God?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBlazer
For me ancient texts about god do not constitute proof of any kind. Seeing as how catapults and the math necessary to aim them was the height of technology when Christian texts were written, it is not surprising that there is no ancient references to tectonic plate theory, evolution, big bang, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
I am happy for you that if you are in a imminent plane crash that your belief gives you comfort in your last moments. If I am ever in that situation I won't be changing my mind at the last minute "just in case".
I don't know what happens when I die. I am at peace with that. I did die by drowning when I was 16 and was resuscitated. Went swimming in a pond that was too cold and got hypothermia. All my muscles locked up and I sank like a stone. I remember clearly thinking, "this is it, I'm really going to die" and a feeling of peace came over me. I wasn't afraid to die. All these extra years of life have been very sweet and at my age, your mortality becomes more real every day. I love life and want to keep on living it, but I know that when the time comes I will face death with a peaceful mind.
I'm not out to change your mind. Just was pointing out the logical fallacy of the universe requiring a creator because it is so complex.
i hear ya blue. i've had a couple of those near death moments myself, and i'll honestly say, i wasn't thinking about God either. i attribute that to the fact that i was young and dumb and full of, well, you know...
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Originally Posted by chris62008
"god speaks the world into existence"
From your own bible.
The bible is not the word of gob, but the word of man.
The word of god is the world itself.
God's still talking, but idiots are too busy reading the word of man to listen to the word of god.
Spiritual + Physical = humanity.
Science is used to tell us that fire is hot and will hurt us.
Spirituality is used to tell us that we shouldnt harm others if we, ourselves, wish not to be harmed.
I can't wait to see what the creationists come up with to explain Neanderthal DNA being found in humans.
Maybe Satan put the DNA there, y'know to test our 'faith' :stoned:
Science is corrosive to religion (Dawkins has it right here) and religion is corrosive to science - I can't see the two coexisting. Natural selection is one of the best ideas that humans have ever come up with - ever.
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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK
We didnt come up with it; it came up with us! ;D hahaha...
I believe in both creation and natural selection/evolution.
Creation: you cant begin everything out of absolutely nothing. assuming that there was ever a beginning point, it had to have been a divine equation created to perpetuate autonomous evolution and natural selection.
Evolution: assuming everything has always existed and there was never a period of nothingness, nor will there ever be a period of nothingness, what is the equation, and how do we map it ourselves?
If we can evolve to comprehend the divine equation behind life, the universe, and everything (and it proves not to be 42) that would make US the creators of the universe.
Do you believe in an infinite, creative, reoccurring, multi-faceted omniverse?
An All Encompassing Infinitesimal Omniversal Universe?