Disgusting that war's an option in the 21st century

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Originally Posted by maladroit

the korean war wasn't totally about communism...north korea illegally invaded south korea, and the united nations went in there and legally kicked their commie asses back over the border...it was the same situation in the first gulf war

the usa does a lot of good in the world...that doesn't erase all the bad things it does but uncle sam still deserves credit for the good stuff

us government foreign policy is a combination of manifest destiny and exceptionalism...the government believes it is their moral duty to control the world, and therefore it isn't immoral if they have to break laws and spill innocent blood on the path to achieving that lofty objective...even when it ends badly, exceptionalism kicks in again and they ignore defeat/failure (like in the war of 1812, the vietnam war, iraq, and afghanistan)

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I agree some good is done, but I maintain that the motives for that good are purely self-serving, the good being coincidental. The policy of exceptionalism is a very frightening one, since they can in no way legitimately declare themselves morally superior. World domination is inherently immoral.

And delusionsofnormality, if you'll remember from the Nietzsche thread, I agree with basically everything you said. Sometimes I feel like suffocating in cynicism and despair. Just sometimes.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

i think you're confusing technological advancement with ethical advancement. take away all our technology and you'll find nothing more than a bunch of hairless apes running around fucking everything that moves and beating each other over the head with sticks. we value only the material, in the form of power and things, and ignore philosophical and intellectual pursuits unless they might lead us to material wealth. hell, we even find it necessary to enforce charity with legislation! we are a primitive species, still catering to our baser instincts and mostly devoid of the empathy it takes to really give a flying fuck about each other or the rest of the world.

i don't suppose you can really blame the common man for this evolutionary dead end we find ourselves in. we are nothing more than herd animals, banding together for safety and looking to our leaders for direction, and the power of the individual has never been of prime importance. we seem to be only a step or two above the mindless hive, buzzing about on our pointless tasks and building a structure that is only designed to house more drones. warfare may be the only thing that has saved us from extinction through the sheer tedium of our meaningless existence.

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I don't know. The Amish seen to lead a nice quiet life. And there are other examples. We don't need technology to survive. We just use it to make life easier for ourselves. Maybe life isn't supposed to be easy.

what's wrong with doing good if it's purely self-serving? rational self interest good is still good

i agree the world domination is inherently immoral but don't despair - there are many good people in america who work for NGO's and help protect people around the world, or just donate money to charities...their government is screwed up but that can be fixed...i think america would be a different country if it's government accurately reflected the people instead of the special interests

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Originally Posted by maladroit

what's wrong with doing good if it's purely self-serving? rational self interest good is still good

i agree the world domination is inherently immoral but don't despair - there are many good people in america who work for NGO's and help protect people around the world, or just donate money to charities...their government is screwed up but that can be fixed...i think america would be a different country if it's government accurately reflected the people instead of the special interests

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I'm just saying it's a world without justice where you'll prosper if your economic agenda is on par with the U.S.'s and different ideologies or competative practices result in a blacklisting. Countries prosper the way an aryan individual would have in the Third Reicht.

And of course, nothing at all against the American people...I merely oppose their dangerous government and its practices.

We go to war for the banks. They finance the war and make lots and lots of money. Then we have the defense contractors who get filthy rich too.

We are screwed right now. Either we get another depression or we start another war. Dunno which it'll be, but both options suck for us.

Watch the movie Money Masters, it explains it all in 3.5 hours and you'll wonder why the fuck you spent so much time in school and didn't learn this shit.

If you can't stand to watch the video on your computer, download the DVD off a torrent site. Worst case scenario, pay $30 for the DVD and make copies for friends & family.

War sucks, but it isn't going to change in our lifetime.

I mean, imagine if it were reversed...let's say most of the Western world had been mandated by the Middle East for most of the last century, and let's say the United States elected a president in the '50s who gained popularity through trying to bring the wealth to the people, and then Iran had him overthrown and replaced with a pro-Middle Eastern unpopular tyrant.

Had that been the situation, do you really think the U.S. would be a prosperous and peacefully democratic country today? Not that it's really any of that anymore, but it would be far less so if it had been so badly fucked by another corner of the world. I'd bet you anything there would be a fundamentalist Christian dictator with an extremely hostile stance towards the Islamic world...even more so, I mean.