Clinton Joins McCain on Gas-Tax Holiday; Obama Opposes

The only actual 'flaw" in hydrogen is the lack of distribution infrastructure (hydrogen stations) and the potentially dangerous storage under pressure.

I don't think the gov has much actual control over the gas prices (aside from juggling taxes). TO say that the oil companies are still making the same profit as a percentage is just ludacris. As someone stated Q1 rofits this year are already way above last years.

A point no one has touched on is the other effects of having such a petrol driven world. In the US ~30% of kid now suffer from asthma and other respiratory problems are getting worse and worse. The environmental impact is not one to be taken lightly. Even if we have 25-50 years of oil left, do we have 25-50 years of healthly living left following the current trend?

Another excellent point is that far too many people are crusading about cars, where houses and businesses get most of their power from hydrocarbon fueled power plants. Having an electric car, while better than direct pertrol based, still uses hydrocarbon based fuels to provide the electricity.

The real solution lies in sources of energy that are cheap and lentiful. Solar and wind could be used to reduce the footprint of hydrocarbon based fuels, reduce building based enerygy costs (greatly) thus stimulating the ecomomy as well as creating a job market for solar/wind installers/consultants/etc.

My quick calculations could produce a solar/wind powered US (as far as homes and businesses) for at most 2 trillion dollars. THis number is conservativly high and takes no gov incentives/rebates into account. This sounds like a lot of money, but it does not need to all be paid at once, like the Iraq occupation (stopping being a war a looong time ago) we can slolwy pay into this project to complete it over the next 5 or so years.

Using grid tie systems to make sure few power plant workers lose their jobs as the power plant will still function to distribute the power as usual, but now the power will be generated off site from the plant itself. The plant can be fired as needed to fill in gaps of energy should they occur.

Ok, we would get a three month tax free period. Then what? We're back to paying prices even higher then before. Then what they raised taxes on to compensate will stay higher just because now that they did it it's easier to leave it higher and make the extra money. People that can afford it wont really notice, and the people that are getting the brunt of the high price effect wont have the means of actually doing anything about it except complain.

There is way too much money going to oil providers. There is no reason for them to be making more money then you could spend in a lifetime.

So instead of a short term relief only to be followed by financial hardship because of the end of the relief. How about we just figure something out that will be a much more long term solution.

It is impossible to just say, "hey, start making hybrids and cars that only run on electricity". Car companies do not have good enough technology yet for that. They are making their way, but it will take time. Also, you need oil to produce the energy to charge the vehicles. Yeah, not as much but we would still need it. How about we start by only using synthetic oils in our cars, that would cut down tremendously on the use of crude oil.

It's all about finding a solution, not a gimmick.

Instead of removing the gas tax for 3 months(thats what pays to pave and repair the roads), and tax the oil companies for that money up front, how about this...

As a small business owner, I pay over 30% in just federal taxes on my *NET PROFIT*....maybe the oil companies should be taxed the same?? If you take a 3rd of theyre *NET PROFIT* in taxes, they would "only" be making 30 BILLION DOLLARS profit per oil company per quarter(dial 1-900-waahhh). Tax on their net profits can't be passed on to the end user in higher prices, because its on their net profits, not gross reciepts. If they tried to pass it on, they will pay more taxes on the higher prices. If they drop the prices, they won't have to pay so much in taxes. Is everybody confused now??

I figure its pretty simple... the more profit they make, the more money they pay in taxes. As I said before, with me being a small business owner, it sucks when I have to take everything I have save up to use for replacing worn out tools and/or equipment, of another service truck to grow my business, I end up having to send that money to the feds in taxes. Lets give a little of that tax liability to the oil companies.

Mississipi Steve good bloody point i too am sick of these oil companies not paying there fair share of taxes and yet reap record profits fuck that shit.The tax burden then goes down to the little guy because the wealthy dont pay their fair share.....

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Originally Posted by JaySin

It is impossible to just say, "hey, start making hybrids and cars that only run on electricity". Car companies do not have good enough technology yet for that. They are making their way, but it will take time. Also, you need oil to produce the energy to charge the vehicles. Yeah, not as much but we would still need it. How about we start by only using synthetic oils in our cars, that would cut down tremendously on the use of crude oil.

It's all about finding a solution, not a gimmick.

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While I agree that the oil companies make too much money, your idea of finding a solution is so far from off it isn't even funny. I don't want to come off sounding like a flame, but we have had the technology for an electric car since the 70s. We also have had thermal-solar energy implemented in a power plant outside of LA that produces a fair amount of energy.

This idea that we need some sort of new invention to solve this problem is getting on my nerves. We HAVE the tech to make cars that run perfectly well either solely on electricity, or as a hybrid. We can create the electricity without hydrocarbon based fuels NOW.

If you want to know where the real problem lies you have too look back at what those oil companies are making so much of, money. The ONLY reason to not move forward with the "new" 30 year old technologies is that oil companies don't want you to. They lobby the car industry just as much as the government. When a car company is getting kickbacks for producing hydrocarbon fueled cars from the big oil companies, what incentive do they have to mass produce an electric car?

The kicker? Wind, solar, thermal-solar, and many other renewable resource sources of energy would end up being CHEAPER than what you pay now. For example, most of the US pays an average of 15 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity. A home can be outfitted with a renewable photo voltaic (solar) array for about 30,000 dollars upfront cost that would produce 100% of the required energy for that home. The government (state and federal) off rebates that can get over 50%. This would then let you pay basically 0 cents per kilowatt hour (a small grid hookup fee is still applicable, roughly 5 dollars).

The payback period on this should be about 8-12 years. That is the point when you would have spent the same amount on your electricity bill. After that you will be saving money. PV arrays are rated at 90% efficiency for the first 20 years, and then about 80% over the next 20 years.

Yes there IS an upfront cost in both commercial and residential switching to renewable energy sources, but in the long run it is not only more environmentally sound, it is also flat out more economical.

I've said it a million times before, but all that tax rebate money and the money being hemorrhaged in the middle east could have easily paid for a HUGE conversion of the US from hydrocarbon based to renewable energy. But the war is just an artificial way to stimulate the price of gas, and make people OK with the hikes. IF we are all driving electric cars and producing our own energy, how does Exxon continue making billions of dollars? Answer: they don't.

I'm not looking for new technology. I probably follow the automotive industry closer then anyone I know. Although, everything I have read about vehicle technology has said that electric car technology just isn't ready. The batteries would be too costly and weigh too much. I've read it many times before, so if the technology does exist, please point me to where I can read about it. I'm not saying you are wrong at all, I just want you to prove me wrong. I would love to know about this technology so I could further my knowledge on how far automotive technology has come.

I do agree with you that we have the technology to generate power without fossil fuels. I live in a state that has the potential to generate massive amounts of wind power. I also agree that the only reason we are slaves to the oil companies is because of all the money the greedy bastards are making. As long as we have people that are money hungry I really don't see us making the progress that is possible. Not unless we put someone in power that realizes these are the right things to do, instead of just the profitable things to do.

There are so many things we could use mismanaged money for that our country could probably be completely dependent by now if we wouldn't have spent billions of dollars on wars that don't even make sense. The only thing the government is doing with their wars is pissing off other countries along with its own people.

Instead of paying for a war on drugs, we could provide the nation with free schooling instead of making people figure out how to pay for college. Most of the people I know have either just not gone to school or dropped out because they could not afford it. Even with federal funding and grants. Yet we are wasting money on a war that puts innocent citizens of our own country behind bars, sometimes leaving their families to fend for themselves and making things worse then before.

I've wandered off-topic, but it really does disgust me where this country has gone. I realize you are not trying to flame me and I hope you realize I'm not trying to flame you. It's just that people like us need to somehow get together to change how things have been running. This is something I believe in to the point that I am very sure that someday I will be one of the front runners in a group of activists that will hopefully change this country for the better.

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Originally Posted by eggrole1

I've said it a million times before, but all that tax rebate money and the money being hemorrhaged in the middle east could have easily paid for a HUGE conversion of the US from hydrocarbon based to renewable energy. But the war is just an artificial way to stimulate the price of gas, and make people OK with the hikes. IF we are all driving electric cars and producing our own energy, how does Exxon continue making billions of dollars? Answer: they don't.

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Dude, the electric car would be lucky to make 30 MPH, let alone drive on a highway. The technology could be used in urban areas. It's still limited technology.

None the less, you are right, some of the funds from defense and health and human services should be allocated research and implementation of renewable energy sources. The funds in those two sectors are excessive and dragging down America.

Say what you want about oil companies but they do provide a shitload of high paying jobs for Americans. I think that's a great thing.

thcbongman dude there is an electric car that is faster than a brand new Porshe.Its a company in America or France i cant remember but this car is all electric and its fast.

Yups gas is over $4 here.

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Originally Posted by fishman3811

thcbongman dude there is an electric car that is faster than a brand new Porshe.Its a company in America or France i cant remember but this car is all electric and its fast.

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True, but the batteries are laptop batteries and they even said they would be very expensive to replace. It also only lasts 200 miles if you don't get on it a lot. They are hoping that by the time they batteries need to be replaced that it will be cheaper to manufacture them.

This is the car that is based off the Lotus Elise. You might be talking of a different one, cause I don't think this one is made in America or France. I could look in the magazine I have but I don't know where it is at the moment.