Any ideas for seed? Something dummy proof, very hardy, for inddor grow, and not too expensive?
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Any ideas for seed? Something dummy proof, very hardy, for inddor grow, and not too expensive?
I'm sorry to hear about your sherrif. I'm guessing about half of law enforcement is crooked. I just saw this thing about New Orleans cops, and how they had a sting on crooked cops. They had no problem finding recruits to guard and transport and provide protection for cocaine shippments. All while they're on the clock. So why should I follow the law if law enforcement doesn't? You can't go wrong with AK-47. It is really powerful, and real easy to grow. Check out Marijuana Seeds (cannabis, pot) shipped worldwide
New Orleans is notoriously crooked. Thanks for all the help. Looks like you have become my mentor. You are my official grow mentor. I put my seeds in soil the other day after germinating and they are taking their time breaking the soil. I think I may have waited too long before germination to planting. They were trying to root in the papertowel. We'll see. If they ever do come up I have an excellent little stealth starter area. It is under a desk, lit up with two 100 watt Cfl daylight bulbs. I will get some pics soon. Waiting for the sprouts to sprout before I make the official pics.
here look at this fridge grow from youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K3H-ujl9PGY
i saw that grow on you tube before, it is what gave me my idea to use my old fridge. Thing is, I noticed I have a good deal more height and room than his fridge. I have a lot more room because I tore out the freezer. My height is about 4' with 2'X2'W and H. Also, I plan on using a 250 watt HPS and scrog system so I am thinking I will have a little better yield than that, if I ever get started. I figure I'll scrog two plants possibly, get em spread out and get em under the HPS and let em soak in the sun.
I think you are off to a great start. That's look like the appropriate amount of space needed but you have to increase your light output. Of course this is really just echoing what others are already saying. Anyhow, good luck with your project. Keep us posted.
I think that a 250 watt HPS is perfect, but that's just for bloom. Extremely wise choice on SOG, but of course you will need at least one more light vegging, which of course is going on at the same time. Due to the small space you will be really fighting heat if you use another HID light for veg. I would go with blue wavelength fluoro(s) totalling 2 or 3 hundred replacement watts. I think a 300 watt replacement bulb is actually 65 watts. I also wouldn't feel bad if you wanted to lose some expense (actually a bunch of expense) and went with red wavelength fluoros for budding. You won't have to buy nearly the ventilation this way, and it will cut down on electricity costs. In fact, the more I think about it the more I am leaning toward all fluoros in a fridge, but either way is good. Both have there pros and cons. With fluoros I would probably double the wattage in the bloom area of what is in the veg area.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTokey
How are the babies doing at this point? Well I hope.
Yutts:
Now I'm confused. I was initially going to just throw up a 250 watt HPS and be done with it but you are saying I need flouros for veg while budding? I would rather do flouros all around for the expense and heat and energy so tell me, what do I need to do that? I found a light that has a MH and HPS bulb in the same fixture, but that would seem like a lot of heat for that fridge. I would love to just set up three or four cfls and a couple of tubes on the sides. What exactly do I need for this fridge? Can you help me set it up if I were to use just HPS?
If I were to go with a 250 watt hps light and reflector atop the fridge what else do I need and where and how do I do it? Do I also need flouros? I thought I would just get them started with my cfls, then switch to hps when they got big enough and keep the hps on them at 20/4 then cut back the hps to 12/12 when they got some size? First time grow so I need detail.
If I went all flouro, what would that entail? Shoplight tubes at the tops and sides? and would that cover flowering and veg? I thought the HPS did flowering and veg!
One of my babies has emerged to see the world, very early. I have a 100 watt daylight cfl hovering just above it. I will prolly not end up sticking with these seeds. They were from a bag of not-so-good, and this weekend I am expecting to come into contact with some "really good", and will prolly take the seeds form that. If I can't get this growing thing figured out, It won't matter anyway.
I guess I need help with the whole set-up, and through stages. I thought once I got the plants started with the cfl's, I would just put them in the fridge with the hps. Was I worng?
OK, here we go:
For purposes of our discussion, it is important that you know the following. You probably already know all or most, but just incase:
- CFL = Compact Fluorescent Lamp
- HID = High Intensity Discharge
- MH = Metal Halide
- HPS = High Pressure Sodium
- Both MH and HPS are HID lighting
- MH color of light is more bluish, and considered by most to be the best available light for vegetative growth.
- HPS color of light is more reddish, and considered by most to be the best available light for promoting bud growth.
- In general, MH promotes nodes or branches and makes plants fill in better and grow bushy and wider, and HPS makes plants grow taller, more skinny and with less undergrowth.
- You can veg your plants with almost any light. Incandescent (normal old bulbs) will do the worst, but at least they will sustain life. When it is time to bud however, it??s a different story. To see any kind of reward for all your time and effort, budding plants must have a good red wavelength light. The more the better, since of course more light = more weed.
- SOG = Sea Of Green. This grow method is supposed to resemble a sea. Like waves, constantly rolling and moving, waves of plants are never ending. Everything is happening at once, and continues to repeat. While mothers are recovering from the cuttings that were taken, those cuttings are being rooted and turning into clones. In addition, the plants in the veg section are finishing their time and getting ready to be moved into the flowering section. Additionally, the plants in the flower section are in their last few days, and nearly ready for harvest. You can harvest at least twice as often using this method as opposed to conventional methods. Note: In both the SOG and SCROG methods, some people like to skip the veg stage, and start with slightly larger clones.
- SCROG = SCreen Of Green. Very similar to SOG, but screen(s) are utilized to train the plants to take up all the available space. With this method, growth is usually altered to reduce the height of the plant, and promote branching and sideways growth. Some methods utilized are topping, LST and FIM. When using HID lighting a stadium scrog should be implemented to avoid the Christmas tree grow effect. Without a stadium screen plants will grow much faster and taller in the middle, and be the shortest on the outer edges of the grow. Here's some more info and a picture of one of my earlier stadium grows: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...questions.html
CFM = Cubic Feet per Minute. A measurement for determining how much air a fan will blow (amongst other things).
I guess you are saying that you prefer to go with CFL, but you would like advice on HID as well since you are still not quite sure. OK, I will try.Quote:
Originally Posted by travisgrn
I am going to assume that you are dedicated to making this grow happen. I don??t think you??ve done your homework on a few basic things here. Regardless I will still attempt to give you some of your needed knowledge at this point. I am not going to write a step-by-step guide, so you will still have to do a little reading. The internet is the world??s biggest library in the comfort of your own home. One of the best resources is this site??s search engine, and I highly encourage you to use the advanced search if you want to search titles or authors only. Search anything you don??t understand in this reply. Not that I am a master by any means, but I do have some information stored in this tired noggin of mine. Now keep in mind this is only what I would do. There are many ways of doing things and I??m sure others will have additional ideas, and possibly insist their way is better. That??s fine with me, and actually one of the things that I love about this forum. So many ideas and ways of doing things, and you get to figure out which ones are best suited to adapt to your situation.
My thoughts concerning this refrigerator grow are derived not only from years of experience, but of observation and research, and trying to learn from the experiences and knowledge of others. I want to see this grow progress through harvest, and I want it to be a worthwhile experience not only for you, but also for myself and anyone else who is interested in participating, or even just observing. So? I guess I??m saying that I hope you are as excited about this unique grow as I am, and will attempt to give it your all, or at least your upper half. And by the way, please keep any pertinent pictures coming.
Well, you said you wanted to do scrog, so yes you will need lights for both veg and bloom, and unfortunately you can??t just throw up an HPS. First of all, I don??t know how you would get one into your stomach. HA, sorry I??ve been smoking and taking some prescribed opiates. Woke up with a damn migraine, but it??s getting much better now. If you don??t mind some extra work and spending some extra money, the optimum set up would be to use solely HID lighting except for the mother and clone section (see system 1). The major portion of the work involved to make this happen is in the initial set up, but that??s not all. Typically, there will be some more work involved during your 1st and possibly 2nd and 3rd grow, and maybe even more, to get things dialed in just right. On the other hand, if you do things just right you may not have to do much tweaking at all. Once everything is set, you will be amazed at how simple the process is and how much it will yield as opposed to choice 2. Of course, whatever you do will most likely take some dialing in, but the more complex systems generally require more dialing in, give or take. If I was not greatly concerned with money, and I liked projects and had a little time to work on them, I would definitely go with system 1. It would by far give you not only the biggest yield, but in the shortest amount of time as well. However, being a beginner on a tight budget, I??m guessing you??d feel more comfortably going with system 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by travisgrn
System 1:
Assume we are buying the best of these items unless I specify otherwise. The top 40% of the fridge will be for budding. You??ll want the majority of your grow to be for budding because once plants start to bloom they will double or triple in size. I would use a 250 watt HPS lamp with a digital ballast, which is mounted on the back of the fridge. Digital ballasts shortly pay for themselves in electricity costs, and they are cooler and quieter. The light will have a dedicated cooling system complete with its own carbon scrubber, fan (at least 200 CFM, or less if no carbon scrubber is used), and adjustable height cool tube. I'm not sure at this point if I would use a reflector. Probably. The scrubber and tube could be homemade using plans from the FAQ section. You??ll want a cool tube in this small space so that the buds can grow right up next to the light. It is also much better at keeping the environment cool, which will be an issue. This section should have a stadium-style screen so that in despite of the ball-shaped light intensity you can maintain uniform growth in all areas.
The middle 25 or 30% of the fridge will be used for vegging. I would use a 100 watt MH lamp and cool tube, but this light would not need its ventilation pumped from the outside as the top light does; it could blow the air from the veg chamber over the light and out the fridge. Again, digital ballast mounted on the back of the fridge. This section has a flat screen to begin training the plants. It won??t matter too much at this point if the plants grow faster in the middle, you can aim these branches to the outside, and put these plants on the outside when you put them in the flower section to help make up for it.
The remainder of the fridge will be to hold a couple mothers, and for a section to root cuttings (a cloning section). It would be nice if you could mount these on heavy-duty drawer guides (Home Depot, etc). It will save a lot of backache. Both of these would have a couple blue LED light bars, hopefully about 430 nm in color. The mother section would also sport a red light bar or bulb configuration, hopefully about 675 nm in color. I??ve been researching. LED??s are actually viable at this point, but in real small quantities where not a lot of light is needed, like mothering and cloning. Like a digital ballast, they seem expensive at first, but once you compare their life expentancy and small amount of wattage used, you'll notice they too will pay for themselves.
So I guess you??re saying you would rather do cfl. OKQuote:
Originally Posted by travisgrn
System 2:
This is mostly the same as system 1, but all lights are fluoros, and there are a few other differences. We??ll need much less ventilation with this system, and we??ll have to worry much less about overall heat build up. Both screens for this system will be flat, since the light intensity is not shaped like a ball as with HID. On veg and bloom sections try to make a flat even light layer. With scrog, you pick off the bottom branches and concentrate on the upper canopy. You don??t need side lighting in this small space. Keep in mind your buds will not be as tall as with a conventional grow, but the idea is to have much more of them and larger yield since space is better utilized. For the bud chamber, I would try to put in 100-150 real watts of fluoros. For the veg chamber, 65-100 real watts would be fine. For mothers, probably about 40 watts, and 10 or 15 watts for cloning. Red wavelength for budding, blue for everything else (see below). Be sure to utilize one of the advantages of clf, and make the light height adjustable so you can constantly have the plants just a couple inches from it.
Well I was assuming we were using the fridge for all phases of the grow; a sort of self-contained scrog system. I??m not sure what you mean by getting the plants started. If you are using the fridge for veg and bloom, but not mothers and cloning, then of course you could increase the space used for each. Something like 33% for veg and 67% for bud. If you are using it only for budding I would have a top and bottom section which would pretty much be identical, or check into vertical growing, which I am less familiar with. Also if you increase the size of the grow area, increase the amount of lighting and ventilation as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by travisgrn
For both systems:
- I would probably use mostly 3? duct, but fittings may be harder to find than 4?. Whenever possible use actual metal duct, not the coiled dryer duct, and make any turns as gentle as possible. You will get much better airflow that way.
- I would probably have one big (8??) opening and fan (275 cfm?) at the bottom of the fridge to feed air to all levels. As the ducting gets closer to the top, I would progressively decrease the size. Each section of the fridge should be relatively air tight, with the shelves meeting the door to seal. The budding cool tube would have a hole cut in the back of the fridge and its own fan near the intake, or perhaps on the back of the fridge. Bud and veg levels have independent exhaust at the top of each section blowing air out. I would have the mother and cloning compartments sharing one small exhaust fan at the top of their compartment, maybe 50 cfm, give or take. The mothers and clones require only a slight bit of ventilation. In all compartments have the intake and the exhaust at opposite ends of the chamber, with intake at the bottom and exhaust near the top. That way the air will be exchanged the most efficiently, and it will create a breeze that will gently rustle the plants, which is kinda important. If your system does not end up making the plants move gently, then you will need to add an oscillating fan.
- There are airflow calculators on the web to help figure out exactly how much cfm you??ll want, duct size, etc. For example, did you know that a 90 degree bend in a 4" duct line has the same drag as about 7 feet of straight duct? Or you can just kind of wing it using my numbers as a starting point. Maybe others have different suggestions on cfm numbers, or any other numbers for that matter.
- No shop lights! Unless??. We want lights that are as close as possible to the 430 and 675 nm colors mentioned above. This corresponds to peak chlorophyll activity of plants, therefore the most efficient colors for veg and bloom lights respectively. In Kelvin (K) this is 5500 or 6000 (not between) for vegetative growth, preferably 5500, and 2200 or 2700 (not between) for blooming, preferably 2200. No matter what kind of light you are using, always look for those numbers. Many shop lights and household lights are in between the red and blue wavelength we are looking for. They??re somewhere between 3100 and 4200, which is the dead zone in which chlorophyll activity is at its least. If the numbers were not given on the packaging, I would not buy any lights before calling the manufacturer, or looking up a data sheet or something. Unlike ventilation where I suggested you could just wing it, lighting must be of the proper wavelength for certain stages of growth or nothing will happen. Also, I am positive my color numbers are correct, but look them up if you want.
My wife is flipping me crap about spending so much time on this so I hope at least one person appreciates it.
Anyway, keep us posted.
OP
OPIE YUTTS i read it and found it amazing.
You are a fountain of knowledge