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This is one of the more astute observations on this thread. Great Britain created Iraq - it was never a country or kingdom like Iran or Saudi Arabia. Look how well the Kurds are doing, just being left alone except for having been protected from the other "Iraqi's" for almost 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepossumdance
PC :smokin:
Is this another John Kerry joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
Have a good one!:s4:
Absolutely not, It's called objective reasoning, from experience. If you had been in the military, you would know exactly what I meant. Military think is all about the military. They tell you right up front that you are property of the government. Different laws apply to you, and you can be tried for treason for thinking like a civilian and expressing it. What information that they do not give you, does not apply to you. Have you heard Of GI. That stands for Government Issue and they mean it. It took me a few months to regain my senses when I got out and I was a rebel. I never fell for the brainwash, I just realized it for what it was and avoided the consequences. From the moment the reality of Basic training hit me untill the day I walked out that gate, I hated the military and what they stood for. Taking the cream of America and turning them into pawns for politicians and their wicked ways, cannon fodder for the rich. We're told from kindergarden on how all these brave soldiers died so we can be free, what a load of crap. they died so politicians and corporations could feather their nests. Outside of WWII, which had it's own sinister reasons, every war since that's been fought by the USA has been for economic gain by the elites. So when a soldier gives you his opinion, you must sort through the military rhetoric before you make a judgement call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but it seems you are saying that if the troops agree with you they are correct, and if they don't they've been brainwashed?
Also, forgive me if I say three years as a grunt doesn't really give you any perspective on the military as a whole. Everybody knows the grunts life sucks, it's always been that way and technology isn't going to change that.
Lastly, many people had good experiences with the military, as I did despite my combat wounds and eventual disability from them. In fact, those days on the edge were some of the best of my life, primarily because of the relationships formed then. I'm closer to some of those men than my own brother, and damn proud to have been beside them.
Peace. MajorMike
Note: I advise you to be careful when addressing issues for which you feel 'hatred', don't let your passion subdue reason. Take twice as long to choose your words, and you'll have reason to retract fewer of them. I say this truly to all of us, including reminding myself.
....so ...what your're saying is grunts can't see things as a whole?...Major Air Force?...sir...:wtf:...Quote:
Originally Posted by MajMike
I didn't mean that grunts couldn't understand/figure out what is really happening. What I meant was that they only see a small portion of the overall operation of the military (excluding the many non-coms who actually run the military), and specifically I was referring to medicinal's short 3 yr stint as too little for him to have a chance to see the other side.
My Dad is a retired Army National Guard Sergeant Major, my Uncle was a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer, and I worked my way through college in the Army Guard as a forward observer (13F/13E, made Spec 4 just before getting out). I have nothing but respect for our enlisted folks, and owe all my successes as an officer to them.
Peace.
p.s. I saw your CFMB, kudo's to another medic (got mine in '96).
..you are probably right...E-4's have a limited view of things overall....:thumbsup:...(two years was plenty, for me) :hippy:
but what they see is crystal clear....peace, MajMike
"Conserve the Fighting Strenght"
So us grunts don't deserve an opinion! Well, thats exactly the way the army treated me, cannon fodder and shut the fuck up. At least now I'm free to tell assholes what I really think. It was officers like you that sent the "grunts" to their deaths, I wonder how much that bothered you. I'd say with your disrespect for "grunts" they were no more than numbers on your charts. Every life lost in war is as precious as yours, just because you think you are better than a "grunt", your life is worth not one penny more. The elitest attitudes of officers always pissed me off. I saw maybe a half dozen officers in my three years that I would follow, real good men, the rest, I wouldn't of pissed on them if they were on fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajMike
Did you even read the other posts, where I discussed my own stint as a grunt and my respect for them to this day?
I think you hear what you want to hear. You are one who said that whoever didn't agree with you was 'brainwashed', I merely pointed out the fallacy in that.
You seem to think you know everything about the military after a short three years, but if you really did you would have to recognize that people can differ in opinion without being 'brainwashed' by the opposition.
There are some poor officers in the military, just as there are poor performers in every large organization, but the idea that they all suck is just as bad as the idea that they are all perfect.
Caveat: I can understand your opinion better if it was about the military of your experience, a draft heavy group sent to fight a shitty war overseas. The Army was so fucked up then I share your thoughts about the officers they sent to you, and the politics of the 'Nam made the grunts already shitty life even worse.
But, today's military is very different, even if a shitty overseas war is on again and the Army is stretched thin. I spent more time in combat zones than you spent in the military, and I've worked at every level up to and including the Pentagon (left 1 month before 911, lost friends there too). Despite this, I recognize that I don't know everything about the military, or even the Air Force for that matter (PJ/CSAR).
Lastly, let me reiterate, you definitely have the right to your opinion and your viewpoint is as valid as mine. All I'm saying is that extreme views no matter what the perspective are usually wrong, or at least not well balanced (see our politicians).
Whatever our differences, I'm glad you made it here for us to discuss them. To another survivor I say, welcome home brother.
Thank you, thank you very much. Maybe had I known you, I'd have known 7 good officers. Most of the ones I came in contact with were shitheads. I drove a sedan at 7th army headquarters for a while, so I got to drive a lot of officers. Mostly majors and colonels, with a few captains thrown in. I also drove a few 1 star generals and General Clark once. There were a couple of times that they treated me like an equal, but generally speaking it was the hey private thing, shut up and drive. I had one major thet was a good old boy, came up through the ranks in Korea. He respected EMs. He invited me to eat with him and hang out at the bars, that guy could drink. we'd both get in that sedan shitfaced to the max and head for the barracks. Of course he went to the officers quarters and I to the enlisted barracks, but he was a real character.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajMike