The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
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Originally Posted by KevinFinnerty
I don't mean to be rude, but what is this supposed to mean? How does losing a loved one make you say "okay, now I believe that there has to be some sort of higher power out there"? Or is it just that after losing a loved one, you become so distraught over your loss that you're unwilling to even acknowledge the possiblity that your loved one has now completely ceased to exist.
For me, it was neither. It's the experience as a whole. I was happily agnostic for many years, 15 or so. I had always been kind of a hippy so I was mostly agnostic, and not atheist. But after losing loved ones, the power of the realtionships, the gravity of the experience - the graphic nature in the way they died - changed me. It doesn't have anything to do with "comfort" per se, and more to do with perception.
I am spirtualist and I believe in energy. I believe that when our loved ones die, they let us know they are out there, but only for a short period of time, then they are gone.
It's just what I believe from whats happened to me. I do Kundalini yoga and study (a little) Reiki, plus I am really into animals so I try to be aware nature at all times.
I use the Church for weddings and funerals. I have no problem being a spiritualist/Catholic. I like the structure of the Church but do not believe Jesus was the son of G-O-D, and differ on many political issues. I was raised Catholic, so I am very used to the institution.
Some people think I am blasphemous, because I am sort of a "religious dillettante," but I just happen to feel that it's excellent to use what you feel works. For me it's doing rigorous Yoga with Sikhs, which includes chanting, prayer and meditation.
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Kundalini is considered the most comprehensive of yogas, combining meditation, prayer, physical practices and breathing exercises. ??Kundalini? literally means ??the curl of the lock of hair of the beloved.? This poetic metaphor alludes to the flow of energy and consciousness that exists within each of us, and enables us to merge with ?? or ??yoke? ?? the universal Self. Fusing individual and universal consciousness creates a divine union, called ??yoga.? The Upanishads, Hindu??s sacred scriptures that date back to the fifth century B.C., describe Kundalini, although the oral tradition reaches back even further into history. For thousands of years, this sacred science and technology was veiled in secrecy, passed along verbally from master to chosen disciple.
http://www.3ho.org/yogibhajan.html
I just ran out of time, sorry I didn't respond to the second half of your post.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Religion is just politics. Take the Catholic church for example...
They make people eat, breathe, and sleep their doctrines. They give vivid descriptions of heaven and hell, instilling a fear into followers that if they doubt anything that the church says that God will smite them into a fiery pit where they will rot forever. This is their perfect fall back system to keep people going to church and donating their money. I'm really high right now, but hopefully this makes sense.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
I think the problem with religion is that it was created by people.
...Really, that's the problem with a lot of things.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Well, Kevin, I will give you a straight answer to your question.
...But after this: I think you need to take into account the fact that most theists don't actually think that everyone is going to hell but their fellow theists. From my experience, most sensible theists say "It is between you and God".
As far as why one chooses one religion or another, it is as simple as reading the doctrine of a religion.
You read and agree, or you disagree and move on.
If you are determined to adapt the scientific method into a belief system, there is really no point in discussing religion at all.
Why open your mouth if you already know that you are not going to be satisfied?
The way I see it is thusly:
People are irrational by nature, but have the ability to recognize their nature for what it is.
The best you can hope to do is come to terms with what it means to be human, and try to improve yourself.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
I did not pick christ, he picked me.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFinnerty
I should start off by saying that I consider myself agnostic, as I acknowledge the possibility that there may be a higher power out there somewhere but I certainly wouldn't say I believe in a god.
Now, I could write volumes about how preposterous the notion of religion is (for this discussion I will focus exclusively on the Abrahamic religions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), but the fundamental flaw I referred to in the thread title revolves around one question for you religious people out there: why exactly did you choose the religion that you adhere to? In other words, why have you chosen to follow Christianity instead of Judaism, or Judaism instead of Islam, etc.?
On the one hand, religious people like to emphasize that empirical evidence of any kind is not needed to believe in their religion, and that faith in the face of this lack of evidence is virtuous. However, a person must have some rhyme or reason for picking one religion over another, right? I mean, people don't just pick their religions randomly, do they? Of course not (you'd probably be stoned to death in many Muslim countries for even suggesting such a notion).
The one incredibly fallacious line of reasoning that I want to discuss which people to tend to use to justify their belief in a given religion is that they believe because they like the message that the religion sends out. You might hear a Christian say something along the lines of, "I believe in Christianity because I read the Bible and that Jesus preached a lot of things that I agree with and did a lot of really great things for a lot of people." However, preferring the tenets and principles of one religion over the others does not make it more likely that the events and information the religion describes are actually true. It's reverse logic; you're basically saying to yourself, "It would be really great if this were true, so I will believe it is true." For people who think this way, ignorance really is bliss.
To state the fundamental flaw I mentioned earlier a little more clearly, the fact that faith in the face of a complete lack of evidence is a requirement in the Abrahamic religions makes the whole thing a paradox. Consider this situation: two people live identically pure and altruistic lives, except one believed wholeheartedly that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins and all that jazz, while the other believed nothing of the sort, claiming that it would be foolish to believe such a concept over other concepts like those put forth in Judaism or Islam, which are presented with the same degree of evidence (or lack thereof). Would a supposedly just and loving God who does not possess human characteristics like arrogance and pettiness really send the first person to eternal paradise, and the second to eternal damnation, even though they lived identical lives with regards to how they treated themselves and others? Herein lies the fundamental flaw in religion as I see it, and its only one of many flaws in the idea of religion as we know it. I'll probably discuss the others in separate threads, as this post has gotten kind of long.
well Ive been to many muslim countries and they wouldnt stone you to death for that, etc malaysia, bangladesh, egypt, indonesia. Maybe religion might not be the right thing for you but there's no need to insult anyone now is there.
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAintKnow
Religion is just politics. Take the Catholic church for example...
They make people eat, breathe, and sleep their doctrines. They give vivid descriptions of heaven and hell, instilling a fear into followers that if they doubt anything that the church says that God will smite them into a fiery pit where they will rot forever. This is their perfect fall back system to keep people going to church and donating their money. I'm really high right now, but hopefully this makes sense.
They used to do that, but they're a bit more rational now. Official Church teaching is actually that heaven and hell are states of the soul after the body dies, not actual places. Not that I'm a Catholic, at least not anymore.
Religion is like a dummy function that a computer programmer puts into a class to keep it from crashing. Its purpose is just to return any old simple answer; as long as the program keeps running without incident, it serves its purpose. In a case of insufficient processing power, a more complicated answer might crash the system, and we can't have that!
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
i guess it would be much easier to believe in nothing...and the whole diffrent religion thing can be real miss leading. and 90% of what u learn as a child is sugar coated anyways.and what onironaut said about kids believing all u say can cut both ways. it depends on the child the one in most cases that end up as atheist. the one that listens to nothing and rebels. and listens to nothing the parents say so that can go both ways.
and as far as Christianity it picks up where the jews pretty much droped the ball. and for one thing jesus didn't like the so called religion as it was being taught. if anyone reads the bible for them selfs and not just listen to sum guy in a church that preaches the same thing over and over. just to pay the bills and pocket some for himself. then u would learn alot more if u open ur mind a lil. and i see atheist's as the closed minded ones.
u know the kids that would'nt listen and rebels against everything unless it was thought up by them then it's ok. but anyways i just see that if there was'nt god then it just seem real pointless for all of this. the world everything to just be in vain. i mean the thought of nothing after u die seems childish. what would push people to do better and to strive to do better and keep this world going just to die at the end. and all that u did was in vain. i 4 one don't do things in vain all i do has purpose.
and thats how i would see striving to be faithful and to do gods work as best u can and to prove ur loyalty to god would be a good thing. guess u would have to understand the concept of love to understand this logic.+it didn't start out as religion man made it this way. i mean jesus was pissed and feed up with the so called men of the cloth. at that time the higher up going around collecting money and bribing cheating and stealing.
and look at revelation that book is nothing but judging the churches for there bad doings. so it's not jesus or god thats distorting anything. it's the bad seeds and the human nature of greed among other things. i mean those crazy people that claim god comes and tells them things and all the bs. thats not the case iv'e never seen or heard god but i do believe. this world is perfect and everything in it but what fucks everything up is a lil thing called freewill. thats where things get tricky cause some have a good heart and sum don't and it's all in knowledge. the ones with the closed minds are the ones that most of the time rebel. the ones that step back and look at everything and don't just jump into things seem to get along alil better. theres a whole lot of variables to this world. so to just say u have no soul would be close minded at best. and that is what ur saying right? cause if u believe u have a soul then it would have to go somewhere after u die would it not? and if u believe in no soul then what tells u to do things u know is either right or wrong? what gives u that gut feeling when somethings wrong???
u have to use ur brain alil here. not just make a decision based on growing up, seeing abunch of dead headed people being lead around by the nose just wanting to believe in something(followers).u know that love u seek in life the man/woman u seek to be with the rest of ur life. the person u want to devote themself to u forever and love no one but u. and would never betray u the one that would give themselfs as a whole to u. well thats what we all really seek is it not? we all want the love and attention from that one person. or more for sum of u but u get the point. well read the old testament and read between the lines from the beginning. all god wanted is the same thing we have all longed for. but instead of 1 or 2 people he wanted that kind of love from all his people. and every time as soon as they got what they wanted they would turn there backs on him after all that he did for them time after time.is that to much to ask for well it seems to be.....
