I use that quote quite often, paraphrased, of course. Actually, I think I'll put that in my signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by imitator
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I use that quote quite often, paraphrased, of course. Actually, I think I'll put that in my signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by imitator
123
Quote:
I contend that we are both created. I believe in one more God than you do. When you understand why I dismiss all the other so called Gods, then you will understand why I trust in the One True God.
-Nature I. Awesome
How can you dismiss Gods you havent even heard of or know of yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by natureisawesome
See, that is the problem with this entire thing for me. You dismiss things without even properly understanding them, as is apparent by your complete lack of understanding of what Buddhism teaches and is about... and yet claim that you know the truth because you found this God.
And then you try to take the path of science to prove you are right, when you dont even know half of the other variables that could exist. Perhaps your God is one of many, and a lesser God at that. Hence his worry of people worshiping gods other then him, as is in the scriptures. And perhaps, since the entire concept of God(s) are hypothetical at best in terms of proving existance or non-existance, if you had taken the time to not be so instantly infatuated with the first neato thing you came upon, you would have found some of the Greater gods, ones that were greater, more benevelant, and more everything, then your God.
The lovely thing about that entire little hypothetical is, you cant prove it isnt possible. By the same reasons that your God can exist, so can other gods, and you cant disprove their existance. God himself made it a crime against him to worship any other gods. Thats a pretty interesting thing to think about... why not say false gods? Why not say psuedo gods, or anything else to make it so he was saying that he didnt want people putting fake gods before him... instead of other gods.
Imitator:
Because I don't need to know about every other so called God to know the True God. Like I said, it's not about finding the best God it's about finding the right God. Listen I don't just have some whimsical faith like believing in the toothfairy. There's evidence for God all around us. I believe and I know for sure in my heart that God exists. I have to believe because I can't see God with my eyes. But I can see him in my heart. And you can too.Quote:
How can you dismiss Gods you havent even heard of or know of yet?
Show me an example in this thread where I dismissed something without properly understanding it.Quote:
See, that is the problem with this entire thing for me. You dismiss things without even properly understanding them, as is apparent by your complete lack of understanding of what Buddhism teaches and is about... and yet claim that you know the truth because you found this God.
I go with the evidence. You do not. You dream up possibilities with no evidence, and disregard the evidence that does exist.Quote:
And then you try to take the path of science to prove you are right, when you dont even know half of the other variables that could exist. Perhaps your God is one of many, and a lesser God at that. Hence his worry of people worshiping gods other then him, as is in the scriptures. And perhaps, since the entire concept of God(s) are hypothetical at best in terms of proving existance or non-existance, if you had taken the time to not be so instantly infatuated with the first neato thing you came upon, you would have found some of the Greater gods, ones that were greater, more benevelant, and more everything, then your God.
And I don't mean to be rude, but you are being hypocritical. You contend that I have taken hold of a God when I don't know what else might be out there, but what about your belief? Buddha taught that all things are impermanent, constantly arising, becoming, changing and fading. He didn't observe these things by empirical science. He "envisioned" them. These claims have never been validated in any way whatsoever. You believe that
buddha's teachings are valid, and you don't know what else might be out there either. Buddism teaches there is no God. Buddism has it's own set of "noble truths". What do you have to support these claims? Nothing. what evidence do I have to support my God? Everything.
No there can't be other Gods. That's one of the points covered in my original post. If you study the bible, you'll realize that he does call them false Gods numerous times. Here is one example:Quote:
The lovely thing about that entire little hypothetical is, you cant prove it isnt possible. By the same reasons that your God can exist, so can other gods, and you cant disprove their existance. God himself made it a crime against him to worship any other gods. Thats a pretty interesting thing to think about... why not say false gods? Why not say psuedo gods, or anything else to make it so he was saying that he didnt want people putting fake gods before him... instead of other gods.
Quote:
Isaiah 44
9They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
10Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
11Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
12The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
13The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
Imitator,
Has natureisawesome made any progress in showing you that science points to a God? The reason I ask is because faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. If science was the way to God, there would be way more Christians.
HardcoreNewbie,
I think you believe in 3 less Gods than he does. I'm not trying to knock him, but from his testimony, it's clear that he believes in 3 seperate Gods. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Seriously. Im getting aggitated at this now. Do you fucking read at all? Ever? Or do you just look for slight bits to base your quotes off of before spouting the same stuff you said before and were corrected on at least 4 times now?Quote:
I go with the evidence. You do not. You dream up possibilities with no evidence, and disregard the evidence that does exist.
And I don't mean to be rude, but you are being hypocritical. You contend that I have taken hold of a God when I don't know what else might be out there, but what about your belief? Buddha taught that all things are impermanent, constantly arising, becoming, changing and fading. He didn't observe these things by empirical science. He "envisioned" them. These claims have never been validated in any way whatsoever. You believe that
buddha's teachings are valid, and you don't know what else might be out there either. Buddism teaches there is no God. Buddism has it's own set of "noble truths". What do you have to support these claims? Nothing. what evidence do I have to support my God? Everything.
I DID NOT, nor have I EVER, stated something was a fact.
I dont follow Buddhism, I dont agree with a portion of what they believe, but I find it interesting. I dont neccessarily hold true the theory of never ending, never beginning, but at least I understand it fully, and can see the points for and against it. You on the other hand have displayed a complete lack of understanding of the points of Buddhism on at least two occasions in this thread, and then dismissed it as a false religion. There is your example of dismissing something you dont understand.
And you have no PROOF of God's existance, because if you did, there would be no way for anyone to ever argue or bring up any counter point to your display. This entire thread is because you dont have proof, and you feel the need to make people share the same beliefs as you, so to validate your beliefs more. If you had taken any classes in sociology or psycology, it would be painfully obvious. Its a textbook case, one of the first things studied when you are looking into an ethics surrounding, because with ethics, innevitably comes the people stating that ethics are because of God.
You disregarded Carbon Dating awhile back, but iirc, what is the main way that creationists use to try to show that the Great Flood happened? Yeah...
So, for the FIFTH time now, if I hold any beliefs, you have no clue about them, because I have not posted once about my personal beliefs in this thread. Not once. I have NOT stated anything as fact, I have NOT stated any personal beliefs, I have NOT claimed that any one thing was right and another was wrong. The ONLY person doing this is yourself, quit projecting yourself upon me.
If you cant stop with the slander and lying, then I have nothing more to say to you. This is getting old, and enough is enough. You can say what you will about me raising hypotheticals and trying to get you to flesh out things you have said in light of other possible evidence, but do not attribute anything I say as a belief or fact stated by me, unless I specifically state it as such. And trust me, just for you, I will make it blatantly clear when I do so.
And finally.
Your very own holy laws, The Ten Commandments, does not state false gods. It states:
The same also appears in Deuteronomy 5:6-21. It makes no mention of fake gods, it specifically states OTHER GODS. And a perfect being would not make a mistake in such a critical thing as its holy laws. So either God is paranoid, which he cant be as that is a fault, and God is perfect, or other gods exist.Quote:
Exodus 20:2-17
2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 you shall have no other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
8 Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any workâ??you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
12 Honour your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
17 You shall not covet your neighbourâ??s house; you shall not covet your neighbourâ??s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
He had shown me some inner workings behind the logic for creationism, and had some points that had a decent bit of sense and proof behind them. Currently, he seems to be more interested in lying and misattributing things to me then anything else, so especially not at that time. Although even when things were going more amicably, I wasnt convinced. I merely understood where he was coming from, same thing I have done with any other religions I take the time to look into and learn about. Its a learning experience, not a search for a creator, at least for me.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by imitator
Religion is a scourge. It's probably the best scam in the history of the world. People believe so much in it that it is pretty much cult-like. Religion fucks everything up... and I'm sick of it. I really wish someone would go and blow up all the big churches. Maybe that will be Al-Qaeda's next move: blowing up all the big churches in the US! I'd like that.
Why should I refrain from this so-called "elephant hurling" (I don't know what that is)? That website offers a lot of valid questions about the existence of God. As a Christian, you are obligated to support your God, and thus make sure that you answer those questions, and make justifications to trick yourself into still believing in God.Quote:
Originally Posted by natureisawesome
Btw, what is there to support about these claims? Is life not filled with suffering? Could not your suffering be eliminated by removing desire? Could you not live a good life, by always having the right view, right intention, right speech, right actions, right livelihood, right effor, right mindfulness, and right concentration?Quote:
- The Nature of Dukkha: All life is suffering. This is the noble truth of "dukkha": the word "Dukkha" is usually translated as "suffering" in English. Birth is dukkha, aging is dukkha, sickness is dukkha, death is dukkha; union with what is displeasing is dukkha; separation from what is pleasing is dukkha; not to get what one wants is dukkha; to get what one does not want is dukkha; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are dukkha. This first Noble Truth reflects on the nature of suffering. It comments on types of suffering, identifying each type in turn. A more accurate simplification of this truth is "Life is full of suffering."
- The Origin of Dukkha (Samudaya): Suffering is caused by desire. This is the noble truth of the origin of dukkha: It is craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination. The second Noble Truth reflects on the sources of suffering (Dukkha.) Put very simply, it states that suffering results from expectations linked to our desires, and our attachment to those desires themselves.
- The Cessation of Dukkha (Nirodha): To eliminate suffering, eliminate desire. This is the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha: It is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, and non-reliance on it. The third Noble Truth reflects on the belief that suffering can be eliminated. It asserts that it can be done, and that it has been done.
- The Way Leading to the Cessation of Dukkha (Magga): To eliminate desire follow the Eightfold Path. This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of Dukkha: It is the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
I would imagine that to most the things The Four Noble Truths speak of are pretty damn obvious and self evident. That is the entire idea behind them.
I seriously doubt you spent any time looking into anything involving The Four Noble Truths or The Noble Eightfold Path.