The "C" Crowd

Ok.....she's definitely worse today....significantly worse. I was very pleased with how she had seemed to bounce back in her new bucket and did a system flush which returned about 60ppm so at noon yesterday we put in six gallons of RO water at 850 ppms/ph 5.6. At six pm that evening the ppms (in six gallons of water were down to 650....ph 6.86...adjusted to 5.7. The pics are what we woke up to this morning. Ppms..660.....ph 6.0.

I am completely lost. There is no abnormal smell or look to either the water or the roots.

I called and spoke to my hydro guy and here is what he recommended I do. Spray plant thoroughly with Serenade. Place on nute solution of CalMag 300ppm/Pro Bloom 300ppm. Watch plant carefully and call him tomorrow with report.

I have done this....and sprayed all plants in the same room with Serenade as well. I've turned off the 1kw hps and will leave them on room light today....and perhaps even part of tomorrow (thanks to my last experience with Serenade.)

Thoughts anyone?

When I see tops like that, with the downward droop/cupping, I think a couple things:
-Roots are feeling a bit crowded. That's a large plant! But, since I've seen you and crispi grow monsters, and recently witnessed Treetops' coffee can dwc.... that's unlikely.
-Strain. Not sure if this is your first time running this strain, but some will just naturally do that during flower. Not many, but it is listed as a strain trait on some strain writeups that I've seen on other grow forums.

If you have a couple shop lights or other flouros, I'd definitely hang them. While you don't want to subject a stressed plant (if it is indeed sick) to intense HID light, it does need SOME light to keep its metabolism going while it heals.

Another thing to look into would be a foliar with a silica supplement such as Silica Blast. Again, IF that is a fungal/bacterial issue, the added Si will let the plant grow stronger cell walls that are more resistant to disease.

I see you have a space heater in there; I usually tell people to put it up on something so that it is not pointing directly at any plants.

When you prepped the bucket, did you clean it, and with what? How well did you rinse it? What had been in the bucket previously?

Stinkster glad to see you. :) No she just went into a much larger bucket so the roots have plenty of room....or so I thought.....

This is a power plant. 5wks veg/5 weeks flower. Yes...first time I have grown it.

In RE-speaking to my hydro man we are coming to the conclusion of the third.....possibly pythium wilt....disease as you mentioned.

The bucket is one that I've been using to tote water for my hydro applications for awhile....hasn't been near horses in about a year and thoroughly cleaned w/bleach water before using yeserday. The thing....the plant was showing problems BEFORE we put it into this bucket. That's why we moved in the first place.

I have added 12 mls H202 35% to six gallons of RO water w/600 ppms and he is also having me take ANOTHER five gallons of RO water and put in 60mls H202 35% and let it sit for 24 hours. Then take said water.....add nutes (600ppm) and place plants in that solution.

Stinkster I could not say this to my hydro guy over the phone....power plant but I'd love your input since you've grown it. Is it possible this plant has just grown too fast for the container? It really did not improve with more room.......but what about inside the smaller bucket? I mean its not like this plant is a fussy one as a rule right?

My hydro guy is concerned that it seems to be going down quite fast.....too fast for a rootbound situation. Thoughts?

I'm not sure if I see correctly- is the old bucket inside the new bucket or is that just the top section?
Can you get clear closeups of a couple of the worst-affected tops? Do you notice any darkening or softening of the main stem or is it just the petioles so far?
I don't recall seeing PPP do that curly thing. Hm.
Rootbound plants can go downhill real fast when they hit that wall where you have too high a plant mass : root mass ratio- chemistry becomes hard to control- but I can't be any more specific than that as DWC is pretty alien to me still, lol... I'm watching and learning... :D

A couple things I forgot to mention.....

We are pulling the little room heater but that is the second spot I've had the plant in (it was in the back) so I'm sure that its not blowing on the plant......However
because you just mentioned that it got me to thinking....... The weather is better so the grow section has been getting warmer at night than during the day.....again thinking.......reading up on pythium wilt it can affect roots ability to uptake water during certain periods of time.....such as when the plant has higher water needs......which may have been the situation in my little room and why the plant looks worse first thing inthe morning. Does any of this make sense?

PS....I'll figure out something with the lighting.....not sure what yet. How much wattage are you thinking?

Its just the top section inside larger bucket.

Stinky....I swear...these leaves act like they are SUFFOCATING. Like the time I put too much Serenade on and then the hot lights? They ARE soft and wilting and yes, somewhat on the main stem.

PS...the plant seems to have improved again.....this is so bizarre.

Quick Trading Company

Here's where I got the info on pythium wilt. Its under the "Leaves Wilt During the Day" question.

At least the equivalent of a couple 4' shop lights over the plants in the room. The point is to give ample light to continue normal metabolic processes, but not enough to cause rapid water loss.

Do you have some type of anti-transpirant available? A LIGHT mist with either neem oil or SMC leaf wash will do 2 things:

-prevent water loss
-prevent fungus taking hold worse than it might already be

Both neem and coriander oil protect against mold spores. DON'T over do it!!! LESS IS MORE!!! Now if that plant were actually suffocating, you would also see the leaves DARKENING when it got bad... do you see any evidence of that on the curled leaves?

Another thing -and this is a TOTAL stab in the dark but food for thought- think of the res temp and the room temp as they compare to each other. Is your res temp fluctuating with the weather change? I don't know how this would affect things but it might be a useful bit of info.

Rhiiiiiiii-zome! Rhizome! Where ya at hydro-whisperer?

Yes they ARE darkening...I was thinking nitrogen OD but there's almost 0 nitrogen in there anyway. But if the roots were squishing inside the top bucket....why would the plant improve and then get worse again?

Shop light? English?

I stuck this in the other thread but wanted to post it here too...
I just noticed you JUST transplanted... 2 days ago~
I think that day/night wilt thing may be nothing more than transplant shock, and teh original problem was that it hadn't enough root space. This is one situation in which I would actually use SuperThrive in flower. NOT at the recommended dose though; I'd go even weaker and do a drop per 2 gallons instead of a drop per gallon.
It will take more than a couple days to pull out of this. Think when people take clones, for the first couple days they are often sad and wilty- don't fuss with it too much; those roots no doubt got pretty jostled and the tiny hairs damaged removing the previous 3 gallon pail from them .

Shop light= standard el cheapo tube flourescent fixture that many of us have kickin' around the cellar somewhere.

Darkening? How's your air exchange? Big vigorous plants need big amounts of CO2... gotta keep up with the air movement. But since the darkening from suffocation and the darkening from a N overdose is similar, maybe the superthrive isn't such a good idea after all... JUST IN CASE ;)

Stinky I honestly AM thinking suffocation here...The part of the leaves that are still soft and curled (the plant is now looking better at an amazing rate) and dark DARK green...the rest of the leaf if lighter green.....you can almost see where its getting 02 and not....looks like an artery vs a vein or something....i'll get some photos...not sure how much it will show.