So far so good, I am in flower.
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So far so good, I am in flower.
billyjoe... Did I read that correct. You are using blue light (wavelengths below 500nm) in your 12 hour dark period and getting flowers? How long is it on for? Is it a halogen light source.
Sorrry for so many questions..:thumbsup:
Here is 14 days using this new light schedule and my DIY form of
the "Martian Method".
The first pic is the 400w HPS. The second pic is using an old white
CFL light (just for pic shots not for growing). The third pic is
when the 4 red inc's are on. The forth pic is under the 2
blacklights (can't see a thing) LOL.
The INC bulbs are attached to the outside of a yield master II hood
and the whole setup is on a light mover. The light rail is also
moving when the PAD lights are on. More pic's soon of the "Tub O
Clones" "SOG" "Martian Method" extravaganza.
The 24 hour schedule we currently are using.....
10 hours of 400w 2K HPS (our blue light source)
4 hours of 100w Red Inc's - 4/25w red inc party bulbs (our PAD
light source)
1 hour of 120w BlackLight Inc's - 2/60w blacklight inc bulbs. A
form of SOD (standard outdoor darkness) w/AD dynamics
9 hours of SID (standard indoor darkness)
On a side note my uncle has been doing some foliar feeding,
Unfortunately I had to get him to stop. What ever he was spraying
on them is causing the leaves to wrinkle and show some little
spots. I understand Blueberry is known for it's leaf wrinkle but it
started to look a little excessive to me. He has used this spray in
the past but not wile doing any form of the "Martian Method". We
had similar problems before with the procyon and it's red led
lights. Something about red lights do funky things with nutrient
uptake IMO. I think what my uncle was spraying on the girls is a
diluted version of Grandma Enggy's Fulvic Acid. Sal do you have any
thoughts on this red light nutrient uptake syndrome?
Sal... If you got time I also got another question for ya. After 2.5 to
3 hours into the red inc's (on time) the tops of my girls start to
turn away or (lean away from the red inc lights). This is the first
time I've noticed this. I made sure to have my uncle check it for
another 3 to 4 days just to make sure it wasn't a one time thing.
He say's it's happing every day at the 2.5 to 3 hour mark of the
red inc's (on time). If my memory serves me correctly you said let
the plants dictate what they want. I'm not so sure the girls want 4
hours of red inc's at this early stage of flowering. Should we
start turning the red inc's off just before this happens or is this
one of the effects of having increased far red?
Very pretty, Dog! I love the updates! Sorry I haven't had any of my own. I'm waiting a little bit before I start my next grow log... probably a few weeks or so. Keep up the hard work!
Thank's mom. Hope you don't mind me still posting in this log. I still need some practice before starting my own tread.. Is it ok ?
Absolutely OK!
Dog, I have a red lense filter on the Halogen and I used a homemade spectrometer and could not find any blue light coming through. To answer your question, no I do not use blue light on the dark side of the "martian method". But a sidenote...At the begining of flower, I use shitloads of blue leds and filterless halogen, along with the procyon during the light period. For the dark I use the red halogen.
As far as the nute uptake, I had a similar problem, then I used a bone meal tea and some epsom salt cause I was getting nute lockout. Dont know if that is related to your prob.
GL HF!
Thanks for the info billyjoj.. Not sure myself about the nut uptake. We have done a few other grows using some form of the Martian Method and not had this type of leaf curl before. My uncle will be starting a second batch of the "Tub O Clones" soon and we will not be spraying the girls this time. :thumbsup:
I haven't grown that strain and I haven't used that particular spray, so I couldn't tell you what it might be. If you were growing the same plant and using that same spray using a standard 12/12 method, then some comparison could be made, but with out such information to determine that this is a "red light nutrient uptake syndrome", I wouldn't assume it's it's the spectrum or time schedule that's doing it. Also since it's a foliar application of nutrients, there shouldn't be an uptake problem, and I'd be more inclined to think it's a problem caused by some aspect of the spray itself. I do a lot more prep on my nutrient sprays specifically because the nutrient go straight into the plants tissues and can cause much more rapid and serious nutrient problems than root feeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
What you are seeing with the tips of the plants turning is related a conbination of plant reponses to spectrums. Blue light destroys auxin and the auxin causes plant cells to expand, but blue light destroying the auxin causes the cells to stink, which causes the plant to turn towards Blue light. A similar effect occurs from increased Far Red to Red ratios, which cause the cells on the opposite side of the stem from the radiation source to expand.
What you are seeing is a response to the segregation of the Blue, Red and Far Red spectrums compared to time as the plant changes from one spectrum responce to another. Without the Blue responce in PAD (Red Inc.'s) the plant isn't as strongly guided towards the radiation source and it wanders a bit due to the increase in auxin in the expanding cells on the sources side of the stems. Plants do this in Natural Darkness, both SID and SOD, and the only reason it seems odd to you is that you wouldn't likely notice this in Natural Darkness where it's harder to make such observations. Interesting how how PAD teaches stuff that was always there but we just don't notice it in more "Natural" environments.
As to "let the plants dictate what THEY WANT", they are telling you more here in respect to what they "will do". The question is "Do YOU WANT them to do this?" I can tell you that do things to take advantage of the larger number of options PAD provides me as a grower, custom alter the plants environment to give ME what I WANT. The tips bending away from the radiation sources makes them spread out more that otherwise, but people always training their plant to bend in such a manner? Do YOU want it?
I've concentrated my decisions concerning early flowering mainly on growth rate and stem elongation, and I keep the plants in my preferred "zone" by changing spectrums and their scheduling dictates in each stage of flowering to give ME what I WANT. And what I get is both better yield, potency and convenience (by reducing stem elongation/stretch, it's more convenient for me not to spend more time bending tips and training them down to keep the light intensity on my canopy up, keeping yeild up).
"Should we start turning the red inc's off just before this happens or is this
one of the effects of having increased far red?" If you can't stand to see it, but the Far Red:Red ratio would actually be higher when this happens in the dark when you wouldn't notice it so much.
Something that is helpful to remember when trying to predict the final results of what you are seeing now is: Plant cells take 10 hours to reproduce and the resulting stem elongation is from the state of the cells when they reproduce, so if you maintain less stem elongation (Far Red:Red ratio) during your 24 hour growing day on average - you'll get less stem elongation, but with more photosynthesis you get more growth.
I do use PAD in early flowering, using lower Far Red:Red ratios than I increase them to as stem elongation subsides at the end of early flowering.
As long as you don't overdue it with the Blacklights, then using PAD should always result in less stem elongation, but using Inc.'s to increase growth during the Blue "Day" will increase stem elongation.
I'd say watch your stem elongation for the final decision. And by stem elongation I mean the internode distance more than the overall stem height increase, because you get more growth from PAD compared to SID.
An equal length of stem elongation with more nodes will give you more yield!
I hate to keep harping on synergy, but most people never consider the node count during early flower stretch. There's a lot more going on at any one time than just one factor.
If I was getting more nodes with the same exact amount of early flower stretch, I'd consider it an advantage.
It's all about "What you want". Here I don't see a symptom that the plant is sick or wanting for something. I see an option, you didn't have before.
Sorry if choices seem like headaches.
Choosing to do an old school 12/12 the first 10 days to 2 weeks of flower is one option people have used, switching to PAD after that. I choose the lower Far Red:Red ratio PAD option, but I use a lot more spectral/scheduling steps and combinations than others (I like using all my options, that's how I get the best results).
Even in Darkness... ...It's lonely at the top... ...(where no one can see you grin.)
Take Care, Sal.
hey just read this thread, I'm not going to pretend I understand it all.
Had an idea though, how about this..
Instead of dealing with a '24' hour based cycle, why not take this one step further and 'divide by' - change the cycle time, say by a reducing factor of 24x.
e.g. 30 minutes light + far red + red, 10 minutes SID 20 minutes martian night, this is just an example I know those figures aren't right.
Has anyone ever tried anything like that or is this just a whacked out idea? :]
Peace,
Denial