god vs. no god

I can't believe I even fell back into arguing this. Lets all just consider:

1. Some may believe god is a diety of sorts, the ultimate intelligent ruler of existence.

2. Some may believe that the closest thing to a true "god" is an ultimate, pure form of enlightenment. Unobstructed, clear perception.

3. God may exist, as a creation of our united consciousness through a common belief.

4. Some may have given up any such search, but still want to understand this universe as much as possible, and find the right answers for themselves and us all.

Now lets consider, has any of this debate brought you, or anyone else, closer to any of the above definitions of god? Has it spawned more negativity, or possitivity? Is anyone ever convinced by their opponent? Has this whole debate, the same one that's been done 10,000 times, made any of us closer or more understanding of each other?

I think this whole debate is overdone, and counterproductive to all our well-being. We've all contributed to this counter-productive activity, myself included (especially myself). Maybe there's more interesting and explorative courses of action we could be pursueing together, rather than trying to accomplish goals by fighting each other. I should have learned this lesson long ago, it would make me happy if somebody else did too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greendove

And I am certainly not trying to prove that there isn't a God. I'm just stating that the particular "proof" you were trying to offer isn't any sort of proof at all.

---

I am a bit lost here, Greendove.
What proof did I offer here?

Proof? Now that would some trick, huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wrasler

in response to your first statement regarding intelligent design. what i am saying is that it isn't some new theory that popped up recently. "creationism" has been viewed as the explanation for the origin of life for a very long time. consider the famous scopes trial in the beginning of the nineteenth century. it was over a teacher who went against the rules of the time and taught evolution as opposed to what was required: creationism (which, in case you didn't know, is the same thing as intelligent design).
i want you to understand that i am not trying to discredit your beliefs as you are trying so hard to mine. i was simply asking questions. i also know that we will not convince each other one way or the other and have reached an impasse in the argument.
finally, is it really that hard to believe there is something bigger than yourself out there?

---

Wrasler...Intelligent Design is not part of my beliefs. My point, which I think was missed, is that the ID platform that has been getting some attention the last few years is part of an attempt by the right wing of America to introduce God into science. Thats it. Do I think they created the theory? Or course not, but they are behind the push.

My last post was to show you that there is indeed a link between the ID platform and the US right-wing. Nothing more.

I always stay out of debates on God for one good reason and that is. Mpst people have their minds made up and so it's all pontless. You can say Prove God exists and I can say Prove God doesn't exist. For me God is as real as my dad is. If you really want to know God, you need to form a relationship with Him through Jesus. Spend time in prayer, spend time reading His Word, spend time learning and talking about Him with others. Men are sinners, they will always fall. For anyone that has a true desire to Know God and learn, I'll be glad to answer what I can and disscuss things.

As far as the knock knock cult people that come around, hehe I invite them in and like to set them stright. There are many sites that list verses and tell how to deal with them and show them the errors in their false doctrins.

Keep in mind that faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

Keep in mind that faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God.

---

tell me exactly how you "HEAR" god? god isnt shit but a thought/idea/etc. most ppl that beleive in god an have faith are jus ppl that do good but dont really beleive in karma so they hafta have suttin to say causes good things to happen ta them or w/e

i beleive in god, hes just an ASS HOLE he aint really gave me shit in my life, everything i got i was either born wit or got my damn self

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hewhispers

Ok, but here's the thing...and it can be applied to both the universe as a whole, and the Earth specifically.

Before there was something, there was nothing.
Thats some transition.
Even with the big bang.
What was before that?
A big rock?
And before that?

And then what about Earth.
Initally it was lifeless. At least thats the assumption.
And then :POOF: there was life. :birthday:

Now thats some trick.
Agreed?

---

God doesn't solve this problem. The something-from-nothing debate can be used from either side. If you want to go by the logic that something can't come from nothing, how do you explain God...besides removing him from logic, which is undebatable. So surely we must all accept that something is here, because we're sitting here talking about it...therefore either:
1. Something did come from nothing.
2. Something was always there.

...more and more I've been thinking, like many, that religiousity/mysticism is something humans evolved to give them peace. Whether it be through memes, genes, or what have you...and only those who are capable of sustaining their peace without believing in a God, can.

For instance, I find more peace in the fact that there isn't a heaven/hell. Sure, a second, eternal life would be fantastic (which is why it strikes me as something humans invented). But at least I don't have to walk around with a giant surveillance camera in the sky following me. I've been able let go of a lot of guilt since I've become an atheist, and reaffirm that I am a good person because I want to be...for no other reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peacetrain

God doesn't solve this problem. The something-from-nothing debate can be used from either side. If you want to go by the logic that something can't come from nothing, how do you explain God...besides removing him from logic, which is undebatable. So surely we must all accept that something is here, because we're sitting here talking about it...therefore either:
1. Something did come from nothing.
2. Something was always there.

---

I am not suggesting that God is the answer on how it all started.
But you are not the only one who thought I sided with God for an answer.
I need to phrase my comments better I suppose.

My amazement was only that the Earth was at one point lifeless.
To move from innate to organic is a miracle, at least in Vegas odds.
Some want to chalk that up to God, so be it for them.
Who am I to dance on their faith?

Sorry that I implied your beliefs! Usually people who can't fathom the idea of a Big Bang explain it with God...my bad.

The Christian Logic: If I can't explain or understand something (evolution/big bang/the universe/etc)...it must be God. It encouarages people not to think any further about the matter. "I can't explain it therefore I never can explain it therefore its God"...and I think thinking is good!

But yeah I agree with you...it is amazing that we're here...and conscious of so much, too! Blows me away daily.

Does god love us? In every religion involving god I've heard of there are rules, or laws of god. To love us he'd have to trust us. Trust doesn't require laws and rules. In fact to create these laws and rules you would corrupt trust. Can they coexist without damaging eachother? No.

they say that because they have nothing else in the foarm of argument
if they said "you just have to believe" with anything else it would be shot down

Atheism ftw

Ok here is my point of view. Sorry folks there is no GOD. He / she is a figment of imagination conjured up by primitive man to explain the unexplainable and was a quick answer. there are 200 billion stars in our galaxy there are over a million known galaxies with even more stars in them. Do you think that a alien 100 million light years away is worried about Jesus Or MOHAMAD? I doubt it. And with all those stars it's silly to think that earth is the only place for life humans are NOT that special, they just like to think they are.If you believe in God then you must believe in the Bible or TORA or KORAN or some other holy book. If thats the case you must believe the whole book, because once you start disbeliveing in one thing then you inject that a bible story is made up.......a faulsehood...... how can a God that hates sin and lies INSIPRE a book then fill it with lies? God didnt write the Bible .man did. it was a book INSPIRED by god written by an imperfect man.......... thus it by default is subject to imperfection.
Listen to me........... Keep smoken cuz when you draw your last Bong hit and close yur eyes forever. it is OVER!

How come you guys never talk about the things you agree with God? It seems like it's not about whether he exists, but rather that you want nothing to do with him. It's our choice and we'll have to live with that. Thank God that he allows us to choose.

God created a garden (is there a garden in any other planet?) and put man upon the earth (is there man outside of earth?). There are as many stars in the sky as the sand in the sea (Can you count them?). God created the evening and the morning (why do our days begin in the middle of the night?) God created a clock and hung it in the sky (if the sun never went down and it was always sunny, how would you keep track of time?)

"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

God created a garden (is there a garden in any other planet?) and put man upon the earth (is there man outside of earth?). There are as many stars in the sky as the sand in the sea (Can you count them?). God created the evening and the morning (why do our days begin in the middle of the night?) God created a clock and hung it in the sky (if the sun never went down and it was always sunny, how would you keep track of time?)

"

---

never been to another planet to prove or disprove a garden. I doubt there is mankind anywhere else, that would infer that hunamity is universal...(its not)
and your perspective is from a stance that there is a God.
We all have our own ideas on what is real. I will put my faith in science that can prove what its telling me with provable facts rather then beliveing just because i was told to.

If you beleive that then Belive me "the check is in the mail."

People just want something to have faith in.. It's funny how this will never end though we can never find out if there is a god or not. My views though I was raised Catholic got Confirmed and have never been to church since, I'm not a religious guy in any means. I mean I believe there's something out there but right now I'm confused. Not Catholic though that's for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

How come you guys never talk about the things you agree with God? It seems like it's not about whether he exists, but rather that you want nothing to do with him. It's our choice and we'll have to live with that. Thank God that he allows us to choose.

God created a garden (is there a garden in any other planet?) and put man upon the earth (is there man outside of earth?). There are as many stars in the sky as the sand in the sea (Can you count them?). God created the evening and the morning (why do our days begin in the middle of the night?) God created a clock and hung it in the sky (if the sun never went down and it was always sunny, how would you keep track of time?)

"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us"

---

ok tell me how god created the sun? besides the whole fact how evolution and time have created our solar system and planets, along with the sun.

tell me how there isnt any other form of human life in the billions and billions of planets and solar systems and galaxies in our universe, then just the life thats on this one planet.

how did god tell us "ok, when the sun comes up, its morning time?" over time and humanity things adapted and they went out and hunted durring the day because it was bright out, by the sun that was made by evolution, not the light switch the big man turned on, then at night they couldnt see or hunt, and were tired from hunting.. its just logic, you got to have an open mind to these kind of things...

gravity created the sun.its a multi- dimentional force.

Electrochemical bonding created the first self replicating DNA strand.....time did the rest. Science has recreated it in a lab. theres your proof. So are they Gods? Maybe we were put here billions of years ago by a race of aliens that are seeding the galaxywith DNA and they are now checking the crop.

where did the electricity come from.?
lightning into the allready ocean filled of basic components of life, such as carbon,salt,iron ect ect.

there are no humans elsewhere in the universe. Life on other planets would evolve differently.
there may be other life in the universe....maybe even intelligent life. but given the vast distances it may never be found.
Are we even listening with the right equipment?
If you said hello to a planet revolving around our nearest star Alpha centari (4.2 light years distant) it would take 8.4 years to get a response to your greeting. Considering the fact that humans have only recently had the techknowlogy to scan the stars and listen we still have 100 years to wait for an answer just in our galatic back yard before we can start to rule out that we are alone. at least on a galatic local scale.
but for a God to create an infinate space and put 100 billion,billion, trillion stars in it and only create life on one little spec is a waste of time and space.
And is entirely illogical. The earth is so insugnificant you cant even see it from Pluto even with a telescope earth looks like a spec from pluto. So whats so amazing about earth? life ! inteligent life? that remains to be seen. We have to wait and see if we blow our selves up or not.
Modern day scientist think there may be auqatic life under the the ice of Europa. Ask a science teacher or professor.

they can provide you with PROOF.