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Well thanks I kinda got a little angry....but I really feel like my rights for treatment are being violated and when I see someone trying to justify the very laws I am fighting simply because "it is THE law or to have someone use the Bible against weed as if it is a sin, I see red. Its just not right.
People think medical marijuana is legal but it isn't sick people are still being arrested because of federal law and that kind of talk does nothing to help our cause. Ya know?
You've got a pretty warped interpretation of the sermon on the mount man... Why do you always feel the need to open your mouth and make all agnostic/athesists look like complete assholes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
We all know where you stand, because your means of getting there are pretty simplistic. Just sit in the corner and let the adults talk huh?
And Haze, do you even know what you mean when you say "bible-believing" christian? I don't. Maybe the christians do, but are you thinking the same thing? This just seems like a case of you trying to tell people what they believe, and it seems you might be wrong...
I have never heard anyone say that the government is committing a sin by asking us not to smoke. I do understand the Bible says obey the laws of the land and I do understand the government says it's not right to smoke marijuana. But if God really exists then come on. God is not going to create a plant and then create human and tell him to take care of the land and harvest the yield or maintain the garden if it wasn't meant for us to discover consuming the weed". Every plant has it's purpose and it seems to me as times goes on they keep finding more beneficial things to happen to us when we "consume" cannabis. So it's obvious what ever it's purpose has, we have to consume the chemicals in the plant in order to benefit from it. Like I said before, if the stories of the Bible are true and Cannabis was forbidden plant it'd be hidden from the world as the Tree of Life was or Tree of Knowledge, or Good and Evil. Which ever one it was. I mean when you think of how natural bud is you'll realize there is nothing wrong with consuming it. I mean come on, the bud comes off of a freggin branch or "stem", it can't get anymore natural than that. Maybe smoking is bad, I don't argue with this. If there was nothing wrong with it I wouldn't suffer smoke-related health problems. But there is nothing at all wrong with consuming it by eating it or something of that nature. If God could give us a direct message today he'd tell us to stop the non-sense, ban your guns..not my creations. I put this here for you, why do you dislike my gift of love?
BLUECAT... make sure you read the whole thread before you tear into someone. i stated earlier that marijuana for medicinal purposes is a different issue! also, i addressed the difference between civil disobedience if the government is asking you to commit an immoral act or if they are asking you to refrain from a recreational habit. medicinal and religious uses of it are a different story which i said earlier... SO DON"T BE SO QUICK TO FLIP OUT UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE WHOLE THREAD!!!! don't read one line and assume you know the other page and a half of discussions!!!
second, don't say i am judging cause i am not... i am trying to have a mature discussion which includes challenging ideas! i don't think there is anything wrong with marijuana.. i never said there was and i am not saying anyone is evil here for smoking. i am a christian and i smoke... sooooo chillllllllllllllllllllllllll.
i am just asking a question to a particular group of people who function in a particular vein of society.. "bible believing/following" christian in the mainstream sense of the word!!!! i agree with all of your thinking but i am trying to find if there is anyone from the other way of thinking on here for discussions!!! i use to be from the "bible believing/following" vein. i still believe in jesus and the wisdom of the bible now, just not in the mainstream sense of the definition, which obviously you don't either, which is cool. i am not asking your opinion as mine is already the same!!!! ok...
obviously, there is not anyone from that vein on here as everyone who has answered was from a more postmodern paradigm, not surprisingly. oooh.. don't take that as an insult bluecat, as i am of a postmodern paradigm... dont just assume it is a slam!
Umm, I'm just reading what the words say. Jesus says to not resist evil, and to do what you are compelled to do, does he not? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Sorry for being an atheist who critiques religion. :confused:Quote:
Why do you always feel the need to open your mouth and make all agnostic/athesists look like complete assholes?
Hazetwostep, When you begin a post with asking for "only Bible believing Christains" and you ask that we JUSTIFY smoking weed and you state that the Bible clearly states that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey God.
Maybe it is your wording of the post but you can't possible make a statement like that AND NOT expect to ruffle some feathers. Trust me I read this thread and your comment about MM.That does not change the opening statement.
First you are isolating yourself into "only Bible believing Christains" as if no one elses word means anything.And really are their Christains that don't believe in the Bible? How is that possible? I can understand believing in God and not the Bible but then you would not be a Christian. Christianity is based on the Bible. So you will have to explain that statement to me please because frankly I DON'T GET IT.
Second I don't believe we should separate medical weed from recreational weed. If you believe in God then why wouldn't you believe he made weed for us to use and we HAVE used it for many things until the latter 20th century leaders decided they wanted to control it.
It is this kind of talk...that leads people to beleive marijuana is a bad thing. we are trying so hard to get it legalized so that kind of talk does not help matters and it is just plain silly. Geez Orangeman said it perfectly in his post. Many other posters here seem to get it. It makes no sense to even suggest weed is sinful or that mans law is right. It is everyones God given right to use weed.
So maybe you need to rephrase your question or explain a little better the point you are trying to make here. :)
You do understand why simply calling something stupid may not constitute a valid critique, don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Does the bible say it's wrong to smoke? I think we need to be sober. If your heart and soul is in the Lord, I think you'll be ok.
Believing in another God is like being drunk.
sorry bluecat if my wording put you on the defensive. it is too bad that a simple question stirs defensiveness, instead of friendly and civil dialougue. i can't say that i blame you as weed smoking christians are not overly accepted in the larger christian community.
as far as your interpretation of my directing a question at a particular group of people means that nobody elses opinion counts, well, you couldn't be further off. i am directing it at a particular group of people because it is their answer that i am most curious about. people who are not literalists in biblical interpretation breeze by the question by personal opinion, which is totally fine, but are answers i could have come up with on my own. my interest is for a particular way of thinking. asking non-bible believing (in the mainstream literalist sense of the term) christians is of no gain as any opinion is good enough. i am researching the perspective of literalists so focusing my question is a necessity, as i am looking for biblical backing.
as far as asking about christians who do not believe in the bible... please listen... I SAID FROM A MAINSTREAM LITERALIST PERSPECTIVE which is very different that those who believe in the bible as a general guide and not as god's inerent and infallible word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people who pick and choose what is valid and what isn't doesn't help me. i am looking for valid scriptural backing as to how people get around the biblical text as it over and over again gives "commands" about obeying the law of the land and authority. i am not a literalist anymore so that is why i need to ask literalists. i look at it as a general guide, but not law/rules. so i once again dont need to hear from people of my same perspective, i want to hear from others so i can grow and learn. if that means to you that other people's perspectives don't matter at all, well, then you should probably ignore this thread as it is "close minded."
as far as your opinion that medical and recreational weed should not be seperated... well that i disagree simply because medical uses are completely different that entertainment/recreational uses. i do not think that recreational should be banned, but regulated differently than medical mj.... but guess what? this thread is not for that discussion, but i would be happy to discuss it with you in another thread if you begin it, but please not here.
lastly to your post... i made no statement that marijuana is a sin... please read my posts carefully. i am not asking about the substance itself being immoral as it is not and there is no sound, clear, or distinct law against it. i am talking about the immorality that would be associated with disobeying of authority. there is no clear biblical backing that would associate marijuana with immorality, but a pretty strong arguement can be made about the fact that it is against the law in this country and disobeying the law is immoral. i am not looking for asnwers like, well it shouldn't be against the law so it is fine... i am looking to see if anyone has biblically sound backing to navigate around the issue of disobeying authority as immorality... NOT WEED BEING IMMORAL so it is not putting the fight to legalize back at all as it should be legalized so that this issue of immorality from disobedience is no longer an issue!
i will try to be more clear in my posts (though i don't know how much more clear it could be when i stated the exact group i was addressing, and if you are in that group the question would not be so confusing)... maybe you could work on reading posts and the entire thread a little more so that i don't need to repeat myself so many times and talk to people who the thread was no even directed toward.. as it is pretty safe to assume that you are not a biblical literalist as "weed shouldn't be illegal therefor it is fine, is not a biblically backed opinion and certainly not a literalist comment.
thanks...
passthatshit,
no the bible says nothing about smoking being wrong. the main scriptures used to fight the use of marijuana or smoking of any sort are related to the following...
1. your body is the temple and should not be intentionally injured (As smoke does hurt); though to be fair this would need to cover everything like that including over-eating, eating processed sugars, sun tanning, etc. making it a very weak arguement)
2. the bible says that your body should not come under the control of any substance or person other than yourself (which they associate being high as falling under this; then again caffeine could just as easily fall under this as it is the widest used psychotropic drug)
3. any addiction is shunned in the bible and as some become psychologically addicted to THC, hence its "sin"; though christians arguing this have some serious justifying of the caffeine addictions of so many christians... "caffeine is the choice drug of christians"
hear me again
jesus said
"it is not what goes into the mouth of the man that defileth him, but what comes out of the mouth that defileth the man."
he was speaking in reference to cannabis eaters
I don't know if that verse covers everything, though. Cannabis, maybe? But, if a person ate out a crack whores juicy lucy, I'd say he'd be pretty fucking defiled, man.
:cool:
~Junk~
Look I guess we got off on the wrong foot and I am sorry about that.
I just don't understand the group of Christains that think no one gets them simply because they question them. If you don't fit in that group then that is good but your question did not imply that. I have gone to every church denomination out there. I read so many books on belief systems trying to understand the reasons people do what they do in the name of God. I am not as ignorant to your subject as you seem to imply.
I understood your opening line completely that is why it bothered me. It would seem to me if you are looking for that narrow of an audience cannabis.com is the wrong place for your research. Why not ask a Christain Bible reading forum you are after all looking for "only Bible reading Christians."
To come here and want to talk about if smoking weed is breaking mans law as well as Gods law just seems like the wrong place. I mean I am not the only poster to take offence here. SO either a lot of people read your question wrong or you need an audience that is willing to go down that path.
I think anyone here should support legalization or find another playground but then I am an activist for legalization so I can't help but feel that way and I will always speak out for marijuana. I see any negative comments against legalization as a violation of my rights as an individual. I am very emotional about it becuase Marijuana has changed my life as it has many chronically ill people. So you will have to excuse the emotion and I will drop out of this thread you are right it is certainly NOT my cup of tea.
But I will be interested in reading future comments as to how others percieve this. this just seems to me an odd place to ask such a question. I am not sure what kind of answers you expect to get here.
I can't believe I'm actually gonna say this, but I completely agree with MastaChronic on this one. :D
He hit the nail on the head.
Yes the Masta does that to me sometimes too and his little bits of wisdom just blow me away. I am becoming a fan. :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
Masta is right because even when the jews weren't allowed to eat with unwashed hands (jewish law), Jesus taught them that you can't defile yourself by eating with dirty hands. Same applies to weed. The law says it's illegal (now), but inhaling smoke CAN NOT defile your soul. It's what comes out of the heart that defiles a man. If you love the Lord with all your heart, soul and spirit....weed won't make you a sinner in his eyes. No sin will. The biggest sin of all is unbelief.
I smoke weed and live and die by his word.
Man should not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
mastachronic, it is a great scripture for moral legalization support aspect...
please, what is the reference for that scripture and what about it's context brings you to the conclusion that it was in regards to cannabis eating, as context is so very important in applying principles?
bluecat... cool that we could level. i will also look forward to bumping into you around the boards. do you participate in organized religion currently or no? sounds like you have searched around a lot... as i have and found like nothing available!
it beats the hell out of me what the exact location of that quote is in the bible, but it also said something about jesus living amongst cannabis eater for a while or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
maybe somebody else knows its location because idk
i would be curious to find that and read the context of it... as that is really what needs to be done to understand it. cool though if someday i find it...
wow, i feel like my fingers are sloping into my keyboard... wow... i think smoking kicked up the duff brownies from last night! im starting to trip again
No I don't participate in any one religion. I do some volunteer work with several churches as long as they aren't pushing a political agenda or an anti Muslim agenda. There are a lot of churches still providing help to Katrina vicitms. They are the ONLY ones helping! I have gone to the Buddhist temple to volunteer a few times and have taken flowers the mosque in Vancouver.Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
I like to read the CPTers newsletter and trade emails with them. I admire the work they do. They do seem to follow the WWJD rule.
I am just not comfortable with the direction so many religions have taken.
I went into a church in Bella Vista Arkansas 2 years ago and they actually had huge photos of Bush and Cheney hanging OVER THE PULPIT. I kid you not....it was crazy.
This thread began wit a simple question that can have no answer . I recently had a revalation into a the true nature of the Holy Herb . Yes I said that Marijuana is Holy the indica is marked with a leaf of seven fingers, and seven is the number signifing Holy perfection. The name Marijuana when broken down to its roots means Mary beloved of God. Msri= mary > juana[fem]>juan[male] = John = Yahn. Yah is one of the Holy names of God in hebrew. So the Holy name of God is hidden in the name Marijuana.
The whole drug war is a jihad of Satan to destory the relationship of man and cannabis. For 5000 years cannabis was the very backbone of the economy. It provided food canvas for sail an tents ,caulking for ships rope and cords medicines and incense and oils for light.
king James 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all
the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for
meat.
here the word meat is important. For at this time meat was all of these things. Meat was food it was tobe shared it was a sacrament to god it was medicine and its fat provived light sinues made cords hides rope. These thing cannabis can do.
And here is a prophecy for the true belivers as our holy Sacrament is banned by the goverment
1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall
depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of
devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot
iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which
God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe
and know the truth.
4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be
received with thanksgiving:
5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Just some quick questions:
I wonder what you would have thought if you were contemporary with David? Would you consider him a lawbreaker, a murderer? Or would you have considered him doing the will of God? What would you have thought of Moses? A radical, a murderer, a law breaker or a follower of the word of God? You see, when it comes to the law and God there is a thin line which is only a matter of perception. Peace.
Hi Haze and Blue cat:
I was glad to see you guys could happily reconcile. It was a really good thread looking back through it all. I got a really good picture of you two especially. Thanks! Oh and Haze I am one of those people you were looking for in your first post. I am not trying to be mean or insensitive TO ANYONE as well but I am just looking for people who interpret the love of Jesus in the same way as I do. I think thats the Calvinist in me though :)
Now there's an argument, lol! Armenian here :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RichieRich
I still love you, tho....
:hippy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbal
What kind of god would make an apple and tell you not to eat it??
fuck i hate religion
I dont believe in the whole TULIP, just parts of it. Armenian and Calvin make no difference to me as long as you love Jesus, you know?
ok. God created weed not man.....man created beer and God said gettin drunk is a sin....da bible doesnt say smokin its a sin im pretty sure if it was a sin da bible would say cuz weed was aroud back then....i think if U choose weed over God then dats a sin.........weed is nature and God put it in this planet for us to enjoy God said if we dont use or appreciate da things he has created and given us den dats a sin......thank U God for da beautiful plants U have given us
not anything personalQuote:
Originally Posted by krazy chino
but i felt like a retard as i read this...it has some valid points...but all the replacement of "th" with "d" makes me feel like a complete moron
am I a sinner cuz im happy, hungry,laughing,thinkin deep,calm, and laughing even more .... well if doin dat its a sin den im goin to hell..... :)
Hey,
I already approached this topic when you asked me about it in the thread I started looking for other conservative Christians. But I'll post my answer here too since it is exactly what you're asking about and people might be interested.
The specific verse that comes to my mind when people talk about the Bible commanding Christians to "obey the laws of the land" is Romans 13:5 which says, "Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience."
Notice what that says is a little different then "obey the laws of the land." What comes to my mind when seeing how the majority of Bible-following Christians interpret this verse is speeding. We all do it. Well, there are a few that don't... but almost everyone does. The way I've come to see that verse is basically if I get caught speeding... submit and pay the penalty. But (here's the kicker), if I'm doing 5-7mph over chances are I probably won't even get pulled since cops and D.A.'s don't really enforce those laws until you're at least 10 or more over. So in a sense, at 7mph over the speed limit I'm still "submitting" to the authorities... maybe not to the letter of the law, but I'm at least submitting to how they enforce the laws. There are a lot of obscure laws on the books that typically aren't enforced at all or enforced very strongly. So it sort of depends how you define "submission."
It's sort of a weird way to look at that verse. However, its really the only way it makes sense to me given that it is actually *unsafe* to follow the letter of the law sometimes (like when everyone around you on the Interstate is doing 15mph over and you're doing 1mph making them dodge you!) and even the authorities themselves don't follow all the laws.
I of course would not argue with a Christian who feels that all laws should be obeyed. If that is where their heart leads them, then that's where they need to be. But I would question their consistency of they were ok with a little speeding, but freaked out if someone smoked a joint... you know?
What helps is that my state (North Carolina) has decriminalized marijuana to a large extent. So simple possession (1st offense) typically gets you a $100 fine and your record stays clear. So I sort of see that as one of those laws the state doesn't really care too much about. There is probably a lot of cops and judges that smoke weed... just like there are a lot of them that speed a little.
That being said, I couldn't justify a huge grow operation, since the state obviously cares very much about that (years in the slammer). I'm thinking about growing a plant or two of my own now... and I'm still considering the risks, the legal ramifications, etc. I think even one plant could get me 12 months in jail and a felony conviction. And if they decided to hand the case over to the feds for whatever reason I could get 5 years. But, chances are one plant would be dealt with lightly.
So yeah... I'm having questions about growing. But I don't really have options where I'm at since I don't know any dealers. So I my just try to flower one plant, keep it small, and try to keep my yield down. As far as smoking only though, I don't really have any problems with it biblically and/or morally. Again though, every Christian needs to decide this for himself.
I feel that "obey the law of the land" was written in good faith thinking that man would be creating laws to help society not hinder it.
Hey JNS:
You have to remember that just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right. It is legal for me to go to Nevada and have sex with a prostitute but that doesn't make it right. I am sure my significant would have quite a bit to say about that. Its legal for me to get shitty drunk in my house but I personally don't think thats right for me. And if we always just blindly obeyed all the laws of the land there would probably still be slavery in the USA.
Peace.....:jointsmile:
There is still slavery in the US. The difference now is they give you money to go and buy your own food and find your own place to stay.
*jumping in the discussion without reading anything but the last comment*
if they says it is wrong, does that give you guilt?
would we have guilt, if they said it was good?
if we have guilt there where does it come from?
being onest with gulit, lies your answer..
Guilt is a self defeating tool that we use to punish ourselves needlessly. Guilt has nothing to do with right or wrong; it is only a self inlflicted state of uneasyness derived from social...damn! Whats the word/s I'm looking for? (Mental block)
you get the drift, tho....
The book of genesis states that everything on earth, form the fish in the sea, and all the green shrubberies/herbs are for use of man. Look for a similar passage. you will fing=d the passage in the 1st book of the bible. genesis
As far as the law of the land. that would be the law of the people not the corrupt government. the people say 2 to 1 that POt should be legalized...So there it is. Peace
the goverment may make the laws but they don t fallow them why should we but MJ was put here by GOD and by god i think we should smoke it!:rastasmoke:
we are under grace, what does your heart convect you of?
I get convicted about alot of things and mary jane has NEVER been one of them. Peace..:jointsmile:
I don't feel guilt when i smoke weed I just don't want to get cought by people that has been brainwashed by the government that weed is bad for sum reason....see the government is tryin to kill us......they sale alcohol cuz they know people will drive and get crazy and crash and die or crash and live and go to jail for DUI....but they know God created weed and that everybody will be in peace and connct socially and we will all think the same and thats what the government don't want happy people chillin and smokin pot and having big ideas and sharin them