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hero this hero that. im sorry, but people use the term hero way to much and in far too general a term, it has also lost its meaning. if the dumbass hadnt gone off onto the back roads and stayed on the main ones (like your supposed to in the winter, especially when there might be a snowstorm) then him and his family would never had been put in that situation.
he had a severe case of.....dumbassitis, inflammation of the dumb ass
Wow... i use to respect you but now you have lost my repect.Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
Yes he made some wrong choices but he had to do what he had to do to save his family.
He probably didn't know the roads either.
He's not a dumbass. Your being a real jerk right now.
well, in case you havent noticed....im am an ass hole, i admit! im a cold, heartless person that is almost completely devoid of compassion (starving kids get my goat, but not some lil "i havent eaten in 6 days" but i mean like etheopian starving, ive gone through some shit like that and it sucks.) im not sorry that i voice my opinions.
let me ask you this, if this "tragic hero" story hadnt made the front pages, anywhere and it ended up somewhere in the back pages in a little column, would you honestly give a shit? how about if it made front pages and then the media just stopped throwing it in your face at least twice a day, would you give a shit?
Others of us have noticed, too, MastaC. More than anything, your problem seems to be immaturity. I hope you sometime develop both some mature discretion and an empathetic heart, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
As far as Mr. Kim was concerned, he was heroic in that he set off, starving and desperate, to find help for his family when he felt he had to. It's true the Kims didn't know those roads, but according to all the news stories, which you clearly have not read (I've never seen any indication that you read information--only that you freely express uninformed opinions), there's clear evidence that vandals opened the road-closed barricades barring access into the area the Kim family vehicle ended up in. So if mischievous jerks hadn't done that, he might have had a better chance. That road had been closed to traffic several days before by state troopers or forest rangers, but the barricade had been opened and evidence of other vandalism was found.
I also read what you said in another thread regarding this story, that Orientals and cold weather don't mix, but, again, you're uninformed. Look at a map of China sometime, one of the biggest countries (and the most populous) in the world. You'll see that Orientals and cold weather do mix. Mr. Kim died a hero because he was willing to take a risk for his family. That term hasn't been used inappropriately to characterize him. He deserves more respect than you're capable of understanding until you're older, wiser, and more compassionate. If that time never arrives, I feel sorry for you. But I feel even sorrier for the people who'll have to endure you.
And with that my friend, a tear dropped from my eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by daima
This man was most certainly a hero. When your in a hopeless, desperate situation that involves your familys lives, common sense and personal safety are quickly fleeting. The man did what he thought would be best for his loved ones, and I don't care what you say, that is not only heroic, but beautifull.
I cannot believe your disrespect mastaC
You clearly are incapable of understanding the situation James Kim found himself or the bravery he demonstrated. Stranded in a car for days one quickly realizes that help may never come and faced with the most difficult situation anyone could endure, he leaves the people he loves most in the world on a search that would almost certainly lead to his death for what, so that his family would have a slightly high chance of getting found.
Amazingly enough his selfless efforts were not in vain, saving theirs by giving his own.
It appalls me to hear such offensive remarks towards someone so noble.
The fabric of this mans character is one to which we should honor and maybe even envy.
I'm glad you took the gloves off.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
Now.....
how r u doing ?
I know for some people that after losing a loved one that the "first this" and the "first that", without your loved one in a physical presence can be very depressing and very very sad.
We are here for you if you be needing us;)
dai*ma:stoned:
well birdgirl, your right about one thing, i havent read the any of the articles about this guy, simply because i dont care. although it might have been avoided if the vandals hadnt messed with things. its still no excuse for going on to some back roads, it is very easy to distinguish back roads from main ones even if theyre covered in snow.
btw, i can be a kind (not caring) and thoughtful person most of the time, but not when it comes to the dead or how they died because theyre dead and dont care. there is a fine line between dumbass and hero, this guy is a dumbass because he didnt succeed in what he was trying to accomplish, he died. james kim would have been a hero had he succeeded, but he didnt, instead, he died. i for one wouldnt want to follow this mans example, simply because he died from it.
i'm not one to pray, but i do believe that if i were, you'd be in more need of them than James.Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
as for you not wanting to follow James example? dont worry. You wouldnt have it in you to do so.
you have obviously never been in the pacifc northwest.
snow, snow drifts, and 80-100 mph winds, wipeout any recognizable landscape.
dai*ma:stoned:
omfg, i LIVE in the pacific northwest and it is very easy to distinguish main roads from back roads, very simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by daima
i will explain, backroads are only wide enough for two cars, main roads are wide enough for four. its very simple.
and maybe its wrong to feel the way i do, but i would rather be in the wrong and be true to myself than the alternative
Masta C...I live in the pacific northwest too so I don't know where you get the 4 car lane theory. Ever taken the road to Mt. Baker it is narrow and scary as shit and in a blizzard I can see how a person could easily get lost.
Also your "he was dumb because he died" theory is flawed. Martin Luther King died in his fight for equal rights as did Kennedy does that make them dumb too?
I think birdgirl hit the nail on the head when she said your problem is immaturity. I bet you don't have any children either so you can't relate to what he was feeling.
Frankly I find the lack of compassion frightening. Lets hope you are like a good wine and will improve with age :)
i think MastaC is immature, inconsiderate, cold, etc. just like most people on this thread but i think it is time to give him a break. these bashings just keep going back and forth, and i don't see what this is going to accomplish. we are not going to make him a better person just by bitching at him all the time. it is a waste of energy and it is tainting a thread dedicated to a good person whom society recently lost.
listen here pal,Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
i have lived in northern california for 50 years.
i own a cabin up in the Sierra Nevada, and i know how bad winter storms are.
i was once stuck in a snow storm, but in Colorado.
I was on familiar ground in the Rocky Mountain National Park, i had my topo maps, but when the snow started flying, the wind starting blowing at hurricane forces, what was once familiar, or loook safe, now becomes total chaos. You can pretend all you want to about how bad the mountanis can be, or how simple the roads are, but i have a sneaky feeling that your possibly ummmmm full of....ummmmmmmm in need of a diaper change.
any hoot....
thats all the rhetoric i'll impose on you. i know how you feel, you know how i feel.
dai*ma:stoned: sf ca 94110
never been to mount baker, ever been to diamond lake? crater lake?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat
as for your martin lther king jr. analogy. you really cant compare him to james kim, kim died through several of his own mistakes, mistakes which could have been completely avoidable. MLKjr died because he was shot by someone, although he was shot because he was fighting for equality, it was not his mistakes that killed him.
btw, did he have chains on his tires or did he forget those too?
your right, i would tell his kids, his mom, his dad and the rest of his family.
the key word here is "try" he "tried" but he didnt succeed. oh sure he "tried" his best, but he didnt accomplish what he was "trying" to do thats why its called a "try", because he didnt succeed.
the human body can survive roughly 30 days of starvation. if they were going camping in the winter shouldnt they have brought along good sleeping bags, maybe a thermal tent along with lighters, food, water etc?they werent going to die of thirst, not when they were surrounded by snow.
im not sure if they were going camping but what else would they be doing so far from home, in the mountains no less? if they WERE going camping in the winter they should have brought along a multitude of things such as food, thermal sleeping bags, thermal tents, thermal clothes and potable water AND the supplies carried in the trunk at all times, such as flares, a blanket, water, more food, a knife, and a tire sealing kit. with the careful rationing of food they could have made it stretch it a week or more. with the road flares he could have made a signal fire. hell, you should have a thermal tent in your trunk even if your not going camping, its something called being prepared.
this is all just common sense, you should always be prepared for the worst, especially when going into a high risk area.
if he was prepared he could have set up his tent a safe distance from his car, got everything out of it and then blown it up. the search team would most likely have been there a lot sooner.
the point is, the guy wasnt prepared. instead he was stupid, he wasnt stupid for "trying" to save his family, hes stupid because if he was prepared he wouldnt have had to do what he did.
yes and he did succeed. His efforts saved his family
people people. obviously MastaC is enjoying this heated argument or else he would just stop posting. let's take away his fun and stop all this bitching. it's leading nowhere, and it's just a waste of energy and stressful. give it a break. we are supposed to be peaceful stoners ya know.
your obviously not reading what i wrote if you think im making up lies, do you know the meaning of "IF"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
anyways, there is a reason why before you even get your drivers liscense they burn it into your mind that you should have a survival kit at all times in your trunk. be prepared, james kim wasnt and look what happened to him.
no doubt there going to make a retarded movie about this, thus sucking even more soul out of it and robbing it of any meaning, oh sure the family gets some money but money doesnt make up for the fact that the movie is going to suck balls, if they do decide to make one.
damn you dutch, i was planning on stopping after a few more posts but you beat me to it......grrrrrrr......Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch.lover
i dont have a car, my mom has a car and yes, she does carry an emergency kit in the trunk at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
wtf? im retarded because ive got my own, honest opinion about things?
if thats the way you want to be then i think that you all are retarded because youve all got the same opinions.
nine weeks, and kims family couldnt handle 6 lousy days, what pussies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
Hey, Daima. If it's OK, I'll drop you an email (I can find it on your profile). Yes, this Christmas season is promising to be rough. I made it through Thanksgiving OK, but I dread the next two weeks. I have a test tomorrow, but after that I'll have more free time and can write to you. Thanks for inquiring.
as are yours, its a double edged sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
"all i gotta say is Karma... i hope it fuckin kills you so we can all laugh at how stupid and retarded you were"
karma doesnt work like that, its actions. not words and opinions.
yeah, your right, he could have gotten out and found this clear road and lived, but at the same time you still try to uphold the notion that your right about kim accomplishing something and being a hero except you ignore the fact that he accomplished nothing and was just all around unprepared for the worst. if he was prepared, both him and his family would have lived, but alas, he just....wasnt and so he died and whos fault is it that he didnt have a survival pack stashed in his trunk? his.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
You are more sensible than I thought then... heheQuote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
Masta, it's time for you to be quiet now. Truly. You're overstepping the bounds of decency and humanity. And you're voicing opinions simply for the sake of being obnoxious, I suspect. You don't know what they were going through out there in the snow after they ran out of food and fuel for warmth. You don't know how the roads in that particular area worked. And you're choosing to user terminology to describe those people that is uncalled for.Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
You're entitled to your teenaged opinions, but right now, you very much need to keep them to yourself. I'm well aware that as a youngster on probation, you have some issues with limits and appropriateness. I already know you are immature and indiscreet. But think of this as a court of humanity here and try and rise to the occasion. And if you can't do that, be silent.
this is my last post on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokealotapotamus
you can be prepared for the unexpected by stowing away a survivla kit. before you ever get your drivers license they burn it into your mind that you should always have one in your trunk. it is for overall survival and can sure as hell give you a lot better chance for living than without it.
in it includes but is not limited to: a thermal tent, thermal sleeping bag/s, thermal clothes, unperishable foodstuffs, drinking water, road flares, matches, tinder, tarp, tire kit, hunting knife and a gun + bullets.
it might sound like a lot, but if packed correctly it takes up hardly any space, i suggest anybody that has a car to have this on them at all times because you never know what might happen, like smokealot said.
you prepare your own survival pack, never buy one that "has it all"
birdgirl, i'll be silent about this now, ive voiced my opinion on this and everybody knows where i stand.
Ok, since we have the *far* compassionate people on this thread, i'll go ahead and play the bad guy.
Remember the search director? He was wondering why he left the road. "Surely theres a good reason for it, i'd sure like to ask him"
Translation: "fuckin idiot left the road, hes not gonna live"
He drives a Saab. Hes a yuppie. You can almost fill in the blanks, its so obvious. I am an information management major.....i know enough people in this field to know the type. You can pretty much stereotype this guy.
I am from the Texas/Mexico border. I personally have found illegal aliens who have succumed to the texas heat and were dead. (grew up on a 75k acre ranch, been lost plenty both horseback and on foot...day/night) I find it funny that people think this guy is so heroic because he couldn't find his way out of a cardboard box and died because of it. However, when a Mexican national wants a better life for his family and dies in the heat, thats something you never hear about.
They were relatively safe in the car and on the road. From what i understand, the night temps were ~32F....which is not bad. My father always taught me to be responsible for my actions. I don't know why people are calling his actions a "mistake". Leaving the car to wander in the woods is the dumbest thing he can do. Obviously he gets lost on the road.....so how in the HELL is he going to find his way around with his little map? He can't find his ass with both hands.....and he expects to navigate in bad terrain?
Take it as it is, all these people who are calling this guy heroic.....probably are the type of absent minded people that get lost in the woods on the way to grandmas house. When you hold yourself accountable for your own actions, you begin to see that others 'mistakes' arent actually mistakes....they are blunders that are easily avoided with a little common sense. Obviously common sense isn't so common.
I'll say one thing for you. You did a good job with the "bad guy" role. But you, too, are entitled to your opinions. Ever heard the old adage that you can't appreciate someone else's position till you walk a mile in his shoes?
I suspect that the various people here who refer to Mr. Kim as heroic and who urge compassion on others are more capable than you guess of taking care of themselves in an emergency. For one thing, many of us have lived longer and had more experience than, say, MastaC. But we've also had longer to struggle and encouter challenges in our lives. I'm a medical student, a former paramedic, and also a long-time former corporate information technology professional. But I've had survival training (through scouting), and I suspect I could muddle through. I'm also a lifelong Texan, and I hear about Mexicans coming across the border in search of better lives all the time. I also hear them referred to as courageous for doing so, an assessment I'd agree with.
As far as the Kims being stereotypical or incompetent or absent-minded, the point many of us keep trying to make--and it's obviously one that's lost on a couple of you--is that you cannot say what you'd do in the same circumstances. Mr. Kim was cold (it was snowing heavily in that area, and the reports I heard on the news and read said it was much colder than 32 at night). Hungry. Desperately worried about his wife and babies. He did what he thought would help. They'd stayed with the car for six days, eaten everything they had, burned what fuel they could, and listened to search helicopters buzz by overhead repeatedly without seeing them. He set off in the hopes that he could find help, and I wish you could see that you might have done precisely the same thing under the same circumstances. He probably wasn't thinking completely clearly. Only trying to take helpful action before he became any weaker. I think he used all the common sense he had. It's simply that the odds were against him. It wasn't necessarily a mistake or a blunder. It was a calculated risk--a big one--that didn't pay off in the long run. As far as the search director's question about why the Kims left the road, they found their answer when they learned the road-closed barricades had been opened by vandals. If you're referring to his having left the road on foot after he went in search of help, then, again, you cannot deem that a mistake or a blunder until you yourself are in those very same cold, hungry, fearful circumstances. Here's hoping someday you'll be tested in the same fashion so you'll eventually understand that you shouldn't judge what someone else does in circumstances you cannot comprehend or appreciate. (By the way, the search director's question was a real question. You colored it with your own spin when you provided that translated response in which you termed Mr. Kim "idiotic.")
Its not so much that I feel that he was idiotic, but I get tired of hearing "hero" this "hero" that.....hes not a hero. He was some city boy that made a stupid mistake that I, personally, would have never made. Why? Because I was taught better than that. I was always taught to keep a clear head and make good decisions in urgent times. Like you were saying, you have survival training, and you feel confident if you were ever in a situation. Would you have even considered going into the woods? No. If he would have stayed on the road, he would be alive and hed get a little pat on the back by the country for his 'bravery'. Don't mix bravery with stupidity. I really wouldn't expect Mr. Kim to build a bonfire with his bare hands, walk 30 miles in the snow to flag someone down, or carry his family on his back out of there. I don't expect someone that sticks a saab in the mountain snow to be Mr. Resourceful. But then again noone expected he would venture into terrain like that. This is coming from someone who is from the brush country of texas. The terrain is moreless flat and not rocky. Illegals cross all the time. But as someone who can handle themselves in a situation, I would NEVER venture into the woods. A bear would have to chase me into the woods.
Here are some quotes:
"About a dozen miles up Bear Camp Road, the Kims took a fork to the right. They drove about 15 miles down that road, got stuck in snow, freed themselves, turned around, and stopped for the night, afraid they would run out of gas. **KEEP DRIVING**
The family stayed with the car a week, burning tires and wood for warmth, and last Saturday James Kim struck out on foot. He was found dead in Big Windy Creek, after walking more than 10 miles. He had no way to know that the car was just a mile down a rugged road from a fishing lodge, closed for the winter but stocked with food."
"The couple owns two boutiques in San Francisco â?? Doe, a clothing store on lower Haight Street, and the Church Street Apothecary in Noe Valley sells baby goods and skin care products."
"They passed signs warning Bear Camp Road may be blocked by snow, but kept going."
VANDALS DID NOT LEAVE GATE OPEN. Its not like he didn't see the gate. BLM people left it open, didn't figure a guy in a saab would try to drive on it.
He must have been watching too many Subaru Outback commercials and had too much faith in his 2005 Saab stationwagon as he looked for this luxury lodge he had reservations at.
my pleasure, and my obligation;)Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
dai*ma:stoned: HUUUUUuuuuuuuGGGGGGG