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When I said ??you scare the fuck outa me?Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
I didn??t mean it like.. I??m so enlightened.
I was going more along the lines of. It scares me that people can believe such crazy things. IT fucking scares me
No offence.
It does interest me though
I''m pretty sure that Hitler made up his own laws. And I'm pretty sure he sentenced them to life of anguish and death if they were'nt "right" in his eyes. How is God any different?
That's not true. It is largely theorized that one day the sun will burn the earth to a crisp, therefore ending our world.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
I'll agree with this, only spirituality is taking on new seekers all the time. Also, I'm not sure that modern society is the downfall of everything "right". There are many good things about modern society, imo. For one, people aren't nearly as uptight, or cruel as we once were. In Biblical times, people were stoned to death for commiting adultery...Not that it's right to commit adultery, but a person shouldn't be stoned to death for it, imo.Quote:
When you think about it, humans have only lost touch with the spiritual side to life in the last few hundred years. For the thousands of years before that, life was a spiritual journey.
Modern society is the downfall of everything right.
What say you?
Or rather, what would your living Jesus say?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"
:cool:
yea. I think that a lot of religious people look back to the highly spiritual days and see it as being so positive and sin free.
I think it is exactly the opposite.
when i went through my history classes i truly got a wonderful insight into what religion is. It's a tool for those in power to extend there power.
Remember back in the day were if you committed a crime, and you were poor, they would make you hold a red hot pole. Your hands would burn and then be bandaged.
something like 1 week later they would remove the bandages.
if your hands were healed then god is showing that you are innocent.
if your hands were still healing, I think everyone’s were, then you were guilty
This system was only applied to the poor. A knight on the other hand if accused of ANYTHING even rape (was this even bad then...) murder.
he would swear on the bible that he is telling the truth. and he would be set free
because if he lied he would burn in hell. Sounds like a system that i would like if i was a knight
and now you'll say. Thats not what jesus wanted. Thats what the church wanted
And then we will reply that the Church then, as now, claims to be speaking God's word.Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Hey Harris... remember the witch-dunking chair too... If she drowned, she was innocent. If not, she was a witch and sentenced to be burned.
is god evil? maybe god has a dark, polar opposite. perhaps everything has an "evil twin" resides in a parallel universe.
either that or the answer to the question "can god create something that even he cannot control?" is pretty obvious by looking at the sad state of things.
OR maybe we are all simply experiencing a dark age, which is part of the master plan.
I read this in a book the other day and thought is was interesting.
"Even if you think you hold the ultimate truth in your hands, there is no guarantee that you will escape from evil. More violence has occured in the name of religion than for any other reason. God handed down the truth, and the Devil said. "Let me organize it."
Organized religion has its good points, but by and large it has been a failure.
"Idealistic and loving people who would never harm another have found themselves in the maelstrom of war. Faiths that preach the existence of one God mount campaigns to kill infidels. Religions of love devolve into into partisan hatred of heretics and those who threaten their faith." ---> Deepok Chopra
Why does this happen is my question?
Is evil really that powerful?
I agree with you completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Stuff
If God is good, and is so righteous, then why would he not stop the suffering? He has infinite power, and yet he cannot destroy Satan right away? And after he supposedly does destroy Satan, there's only going to be one thousand years of peace? Why one thousand years when it could be eternity? Why make people suffer? If he's all powerful, and does indeed exist, then I don't think he's a righteous God.
Here are my thoughts: religion uses God and Jesus as tools to control the masses, and keep people under control. Religion is just as much bullshit as propaganda on cannabis. You're not supposed to be materialistic in nature, and yet those whom are high up in the "hierarchy" of churches are very rich, and have mansions and luxury cars. Sure, religion teaches morals... but we can have morals without religion. Catholic priests? If they're so in tune with God and religion, then why has it been known for them to molest little boys? If there is a God, I'm certain that it is a God we have never spoken of, heard of, or imagined.
First you assume there is a Satan, and second you assume that the Bible God is responsible. I assume you too have been force fed these concepts by the flock?Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
I agree, but I would think that people experience God everyday. The Bible God has been turned into a sadistic diety, imo. I don't view God, or my idea of God, in that light. Humans created the Bible God with their mind, and gave him human attributes. God, if there is one, is nothing more, and nothing less than the creative force of this universe, as well as its opposite all rolled into one, imo.Quote:
Here are my thoughts: religion uses God and Jesus as tools to control the masses, and keep people under control. Religion is just as much bullshit as propaganda on cannabis. You're not supposed to be materialistic in nature, and yet those whom are high up in the "hierarchy" of churches are very rich, and have mansions and luxury cars. Sure, religion teaches morals... but we can have morals without religion. Catholic priests? If they're so in tune with God and religion, then why has it been known for them to molest little boys? If there is a God, I'm certain that it is a God we have never spoken of, heard of, or imagined.
I think God is the universal consciousness...
:smokin:
That my friend is a very the very same argument I've heard so many right wing polititions make. And guess what it's based on nothing. Longer and more sever sentences have been found not to reduce crime. And that is why manditory minimum sentencing is stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
by your logic a society which used capital punishment for every crime would be the safest... I once saw a star trek about this :thumbsup:
This is an assumption. Was there less crime back then. Well there was a hell of a lot of rape and murder. just no one talked about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
And I guess things like wife beatings weren??t crime because it was ok back then?
you are assuming that the world is worse today that it was. And since religion was stronger then. you are assuming that this correlation is causal. I doubt the correlation and I doubt it causal.
as well. Today the majority of crimes. Not pick pocketing. but shit real bad shit. is caused by a few. for example the American government has probably caused more "crime" throughout the world in the last 4 years than all the crime in Canada.
how many civilians have they killed. How many of there own civilians have they let die.
If your talking about average crime in the world being greater now. And if this is true. it is because the average is artificially inflated by a very very few who do very bad things.
-----------------------------------------
as well you seem to think the people killing in jesus??s name were all silly humans tricked by the church. Remember that the Christians killed more ??witches? than the Nazi??s killed jews!!!
What makes you so sure you are not just tricked my another institution?
Oh and currently aren’t the very very religious countries the ones with all the genocide and war…
And places with less religion, Europe or Canada, have none…
I think point is that Christians (God believing, Bible thumping zealots) did. But why?Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
Evil?
Religious dogma?
Fear?
The Devil?
Probably the very best answer here is fear, but I'd say all played a role. If this is true, what do you think they were they afraid of?
The Devil? (yes)
Because Christians felt they [The witches] threatened thier faith? (yes)
Because they [The Christians] thought they [The witches] were evil? (yes)
Now, what do you think caused them to feel this way, and why did they react the way they did?
Answer: Because the Bible told them so, and they thought the Bible was the word of God, and infallible! In this sense, God told them to kill the witches...pure and simple! Organized religion is a dangerous thing, and so is the Bible in the hands of the fearful, and true believers.
2 cents,
the thing is, united. IS that your saying that they arn't following Jesus. They are following the church. right...
but, they thought they were following him. and they thought the church was teaching his teachings.
what is different about you and this jesus website
Actually, the web-site has some pretty damn good stuff on there. It's not dogmatic at all, man. At least, nothing like organized religion, or what is common among the churches. It actually attempt to guide the readers into a better way of seeing things, to help them in life. Granted, I haven't read through the entire site, but what I've seen thus far has been quite a treat. Save the fact that it claims to be the words of Jesus. I find that a little disturbing...Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Other than that little [big] dilemma, I think it's a great site!
:thumbsup:
The website can say all the warm and fuzzy things it wants but the fact remains that they are claiming the info. is coming 'straight from Jesus'. In other words it's based on a lie. The same lie the Catholic Church (as the mouthpiece of God) and others have used for centuries to manipulate people.
Get enough people believing their bullshit and they can change what they say to anything they want-because after all, it's coming straight from God himself-right? So it's indisputable.
It's a suckers play and a poison trap guilded in lilies.
I guess there are three possibiblities here, Harris...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
1) They are lying like you suggested
2) they are not lying and it really is coming from Jesus, or...
3) They are somewhat schizophrenic, and completely believe they are speaking for Jesus.
The last one is more likely imo, but you've seemed to have taken your pick, as well. I think as long as a person doesn't treat this site like most treat the Bible, there is no harm done, and 'maybe' some progress made, lol! Of course, anyone claiming the words of Jesus as fact could get a person in trouble if lead the wrong way...
So, I completely see your point, and I agree for the most part... Even so, the site makes for some prety darn good reading, haha!
I think I'll go there now, just to see what's new...
btw, sorry to jump in like I do...I sometimes can't help myself.
Much Love,
I was going to say 1) and 3) are the same thing, but I suppose someone thinking they're telling the truth couldn't completely be construed as 'a lier'. Doesn't change the fact though that the info. is not the truth. And if it is psychosis that's just one step away from a Hale Bopp koolade party.Quote:
1) They are lying like you suggested
2) they are not lying and it really is coming from Jesus, or...
3) They are somewhat schizophrenic, and completely believe they are speaking for Jesus.
But by all means jump in any time you get the urge. That's what a forum is all about.
Lmao! You got that right, man... Those koolaid party's can get a bit deadly, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
:D
I hear ya, Billionfold, but much of this discussion isn't about proving, or dis proving anything. Thus far, the conversation is more about Gods attributes, and what some feel God is responsible for. I've seen some fairly bitter views stated, and I can certainly understand that mindset. Sure, God is about faith, and a personal relationship with God is just that...Personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billionfold
Although, I think most views are somewhat fear based, as opposed to them "trying to make everyone feel miserable like they do". I don't see this factor at all. What I see is a bit of anger, bitterness, and a fear flavoured cherry to top it off. They're are merely stateing their views. This is what this forum is for, so...
I think it's interesting.
Much Love,
All cults work the good cliches into their teachings. Jimmy Jones probably gave sermon after sermon on those very topics right before he talked them all into mass suicide. I'm sure David Koresh was preaching the same thing while he lit Waco up. (by the way, he thought he was Jesus too.) So how is my reasoning a bit flawed?Quote:
So, even tho their "bullshit" teaches love, respect for your fellow man, how to lead a happy and positive life etc... Hm. You're reasoning is a bit flawed.
As far as paying lip service to the good things, well...anyone can do that. I'll take a Ghandi who walks the walk over a website that just talks the talk any day.
I'm not saying these aren't miserable states to live life in, lol! I'm saying that their intention is NOT to spread what they might be feeling. I think they're simply stating thier views, ya dig?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billionfold
No harm done unless people let these types have power over them...Know what I mean?
btw, not everyone who regects the concept of God are bitter, or fearful, or angry. Some simply don't believe, and again, are simply stating their views. You can't bunch the whole of disbalievers in one group, nor can you bunch the whole of beilievers in one group. People vary in belief for many different reasons, and all perceptions are unique to each individual.
I just thought it was unfair for you to assign these groups to those just saying whats on thier mind. :cool:
Much Love,
The concept I find most interesting in viewing God is how people see evil in the world. People are prompt to curse God: How could you, almighty, damn us to live this way when you can save us all? I think the bigger question is why do people treat eachother like garbage and blame others for it? Including God, whom they don't believe in.
yup...
Listen to yourself man. You're claiming Jesus is posting on a website, and I'm the one who's supposed to open my eyes?! Dude, wake up. You're getting bullshited by a bunch of looinies.Quote:
Maybe it's time you opened your eyes and realised that maybe this one might actually be real.
All the warm and fuzzies you can get from your own conscience. It there is a God, that's where he's going to be broadcasting from...not from messianicpsychosis.com
[quote=Billionfold]Why is everyone obsessed with proving or disproving God? God is all about the faith. Here's how I see it...
People who try and try with all their might to prove God is bad/nonexistant are just trying to make everyone feel miserable like they do. People who try to shove God down your throat are radical or scared. QUOTE]
This post got me all riled up. First off why do you think I am miserable and you think that is why I wish to engage people into a discussion?
And how can you not think the church is a bad thing. Do you have any idea how much harm it has done. They killed 8 000 000 “witches” for example.
That is horrible.
Yea I agree. As well it doesn’t matter if the teachings are good or fulfilling. IF they are well I am happy for you. These can be fulfilling and not come from jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
Why do you believe them. That is what really bugs me. WHY…
I don’t understand how someone on a website could possibly convince you of this.
There only medium is type so they must have just said it. What could they possibly say to support it. Do they accurately predict the weather? Now that would be amazing