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I still think what I posted earlier makes the most sense.
OK...so you believe in evolution. So what?
Just because the cradle of civilization is located there why does it make it the end all, be all of existence and civilization as we have come to understand it?
Every society, culture, and civilization is basically preaching the same shit with a different story. Prove me wrong. :smokin:
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Just close this thread already, it's only a pointless argument about which race is better with no real reason why. So what if your people have done some extraordinary things, what the fuck have you done that makes you better than anyone else?
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Don’t you dare close this thread. It’s one of the best threads I’ve seen in a while. ^ did you even read this thread. It’s sort of punctuates the point of this thread and I find it mildly ironic. People often rush to judgment before they even know what their judging.
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Just a small point. A whale could never swallow a man. They have a tiny throat and eat Krill, small shrimp, to survive.
Secondly man *appears* (there are opposing ideas on this) to have evolved into his current form in africa. That doesn't make it the cradle of civilisation, but just a place where we've found the first evidence of modern man. The cradle of civilisation is actually in the middle east and northern India at places like Mohenjo Daro, where the first farming and writing were developed. There are no equivalents in africa until much, much later.
MelT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Love
Your logic is demeaning.
Whose and why?
MelT
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In America we hardly give a shit about Europe. We like to think we are better than most. =/ well... some of us
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the logic of this...it burns
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I guess you could say that... but;
I'm not a mutant, i'm a Greek :cool:
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You guys want christians to prove that the bible is accurate, how about some proof on your part that the bible is wrong?
Prove to me that the waters God sent for forty days and forty nights on the earth did not take place? Science is a testimony that every peak on earth has been covered by water.
Prove to me that the writers of the epistles didn't witness jesus' death and then see him after his resurrection? Prove that to me bro? What proof do you have to call these men liars? NONE
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You might all be interested in this site, which is pro-christianity, as it shows many, many things wrong in the Bible. Here's an excerpt:
During the celebration of Christmas, familiar images are recalled in hymns and scripture about the birth of Jesus. In the popular mind, the appearance of herald angels, shepherds abiding in the fields, the star of Bethlehem, the virgin Mary giving birth in a stable, and the adoration of the Magi, have all been melded into one Christmas story. In reality, there are in the gospels, two distinct and at times contradictory stories of Jesus' birth. A careful reading of the Bible itself reveals that so much about this celebrated birth is myth.
Dating December 25 as the birthday of Jesus, is known to have gained popularity only by the mid-fourth century in order that Christians could have an alternative to a popular pagan festival at this time of year. December 25 was the winter solstice according to the old Julian calendar, and it was on that day that Mithraism, a chief rival to Christianity, celebrated the birth of the god, Mithra. It is unlikely that we shall ever know exactly when Jesus was born (scholars estimate sometime between 12 and 4 B.C.) or the real circumstances surrounding his nativity. We can, however, attempt to separate historical fact from literary fiction.
The doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus, so central to the traditional Christmas story, was not part of the teaching of the first Christians, whom it should be remembered, also remained within the Jewish faith (Luke 24:52-53). The apostle Paul makes no reference to the virginal conception by the mother of Jesus when speaking of Jesus' origins and divinity. His epistles were written during the 50's A.D. and predate all of the four gospels. Although Paul never met Jesus (who died about 30 A.D.), he personally did know James, the brother of Jesus. Yet despite this eye-witness link to Jesus, Paul apparently knows nothing of the virgin birth, for he states only that Jesus was "born of a woman" (Galatians 4:4) and was "descended from David, according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3), thereby implying a normal birth.
The earliest written gospel was Mark, which was likely composed in the early 70's A.D. in southern Syria. Mark does not consider the birth of Jesus worth mentioning. The silence of the earliest Jewish-Christian authors about the miraculous birth of Jesus seems strange, given that they were trying to convince their readers that Jesus was divine. This silence raises doubts about the authenticity of the later nativity stories with which we are so familiar.
The gospel of John, likely written in northern Syria sometime in the first decade of the second century, asserts that Jesus existed from the beginning of creation. John states that the pre-existent Jesus is the eternal Word, and that he was begotten of the Father and made human at a particular point in time (John 1:1-14). This gospel also claims that Jesus was the son of Joseph (John 1:45) and chooses to ignore or reject the birth stories in the earlier writings of Matthew and Luke. Only the gospels of Matthew and Luke refer to the biological miracle of a virgin woman being made pregnant by an act of God, and giving birth to a baby boy. Matthew was likely written in northern Palestine sometime in the late 80's or early 90's, and Luke in Asia Minor sometime during the late 90's, both about a century after his birth. Just how reliable are the Matthew and Luke birth narratives?
For many Christians, to question the description of Jesus' birth as related in the Bible is unthinkable. They believe that the Bible is the "word of God", an infallible record of the Almighty's influence on his creation, and therefore to be taken at face value. However, a careful study of the nativity narratives of Matthew and Luke indicate that the supposedly unerring "word of God" is full of contradictions and inventions. The most plausible conclusion is that the familiar Christmas stories in Matthew and Luke are religious myths, awkwardly grafted onto an earlier non-miraculous tradition about Jesus' birth.
They appear to be legends recorded by later Jewish-Christian apologists who were attempting to explain the origins of a man whom they considered divine. In this sense, the authors employed the familiar Jewish practice of the time known as "midrash" to illustrate and prove their points; that is to say, they liberally interpreted and expanded on texts and prophesies in the Jewish scriptures. The miraculous birth stories also served other purposes, namely, to rebut the contemporary inferences about the illegitimate birth of Jesus (Matt. 1:18-19, Mark 6:3, John 8:41) and to counter charges that he was possessed by the devil, rather than the spirit.
One of the first examples of things not ringing true can be found in the attempts by the authors of Matthew and Luke to trace the ancestry of Jesus back to the Jewish king David. It was from the royal house of David that the messiah was expected. However, upon close examination, the tables of descent in these gospels become transparently artificial, with many errors and downright contradictions. For example, the two gospels cannot agree on the lineage of Joseph, the father of Jesus. Matthew has 28 generations between David and Jesus, while Luke has 41 for the same period of about 1,000 years. In Matthew's gospel, Joseph's father (i.e. Jesus' grandfather) is said to be Jacob, while in Luke it is claimed that he is Heli. They cannot both be right....."
To read more, go to: http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_lib.htm
MelT
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"You might all be interested in this site, which is pro-christianity, as it shows many, many things wrong in the Bible"
Unlike the bible, your comment contradicts from the start. A true Christian is one who believes that the words of God are true. So if your doubting any of Jesus' writings, are you really a christian? If you say that any of the word of God is untrue, then you are calling Jesus a liar. One who believes in him, does not call him a liar. Based on your opening comment, I would not bother with those "pro christians".
Keep in mind, that lack of spritual understanding on your part, does not make the bible incorrect. There are many teachings in the info that you consider contradictive. Do you have proof that jesus did not raise from the dead? Do you have any proof that I will NOT raise from the dead? The point is, you can't disprove FAITH.
As far as December 25 being the birth date of Jesus. I don't know where religion came up with that date, cause it's not givin in the scriptures. The christmas holiday has nothing to do with Christ.
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LOL! I'm certainly NOT a christian.
You asked for any contradictions in the Bible, I've given you some and your response is to say that there can't be any, because the Bible can't be wrong? LOL! That's pretty funny.
Yep. Goood debating skills you got there...:)
MelT
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modern religion is not Following what the bible teaches, is what he was saying. pointing out what the christian chirch has done wrong is just proveing the fact that people who follow them are blind sighted. Following what Jesus tought also includes leaveing chirches and pratices that are False Behind. Get out of Babylon if you want to save your self. False religion is going to Fall.
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"Yep. Goood debating skills you got there..."
Do you have proof that jesus did not raise from the dead? Do you have any proof that I will NOT raise from the dead?
Where are your debating skills?
Unbelief is pure speculation and theory. It's a lack of wisdom and knowledge. FAITH can't be touched.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
"Yep. Goood debating skills you got there..."
Do you have proof that jesus did not raise from the dead? Do you have any proof that I will NOT raise from the dead?
Where are your debating skills?
Unbelief is pure speculation and theory. It's a lack of wisdom and knowledge. FAITH can't be touched.
LOL! And this is the real problem. People like you ask for proof that the bible is wrong, or proof that jesus didn't exist, but when any is offered that you can't cope with you immediately resort to the idea that faith is all you need negate that proof. It's sad, and not really exactly proof of anything, is it? 'I believe it's so and that's the end of it'. That's not a debate, that's a closed statement.
You don't want to be believe anything other than what you've already blindly accepted. You're not prepared to accept any other authority than the bible and your own faith, which immediately makes any debate with you impossible. You're not here to debate and see the merit and faults in yours and others arguments, you're just here to tell us how right and infallible christianity is. You're welcome to believe whatever you want to, but don't be at all surprised when some here find it funny.
Me, I find it beyond funny. I find it bigotted and terrifyingly closed-minded - it also worries me that you represent a whole swathe of people with similar beliefs. "I am right because I am a christian." Is that a truly christian approach?
How many people have christians killed over the last couple of thousand years? Millions. Most not because they weren't christians, but for supporting the wrong form of christianity! For a religion of peace and understanding that's a pretty poor track record.
Of the 3,500 forms of christianity, how many kinds do you *personally* think are real representations of your faith? One? Two? And does that make all the other forms wrong? Are Catholics real christians to you? Mormons? Are Jews? All worship the same god, but are separated from you (only because you've been told that this is the case) purely by dogma. Dogma so important that you hate even your own christian, god-worshipping fellow men if the words of their prayers, or their route to heaven differs from yours. I say again, not a good track record for a religion of peace, is it?
If there is a god, my prayer is that he save me from his followers and their bigotry.
MelT
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I don't think you understand. I have the substance and the evidence inside me. You can't take that from me, but neither can I convince you of it. I speak what I feel. If you don't want to believe me, DON'T. Your beliefs are not offensive to me, so don't let my faith bother you. If you know that I'm wrong, why you bugged? Be happy that you know the TRUTH.
"And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
"You might all be interested in this site, which is pro-christianity, as it shows many, many things wrong in the Bible"
Unlike the bible, your comment contradicts from the start. A true Christian is one who believes that the words of God are true. So if your doubting any of Jesus' writings, are you really a christian? If you say that any of the word of God is untrue, then you are calling Jesus a liar.
Is it possible that man, in his forever lasting fallacy, has construed the Word of God? Man wrote the bible, and Man messes a lot of things up.
Eager to learn your views, mi amigo.
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Graph,
If there were any mistakes, it would be in the translations. But even in the different translations, the same points are carried out in all the scriptures. Even if the exact word is not used to translate the original hebrew and greek writings, the same spiritual lesson comes across. There are NO mistakes by the authors themselves in the original writings. Even though man wrote the bible, I believe they were inpired and written with the finger of God. That's why biblical writings don't contradict. The bible has ONE author and ONE gospel. Moses' writings are Jesus' words. It's called the word of God for a reason.
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I guess I fit in the.. Christian Other... but I prefer looking at the philisophical view of things and except the universe as always been and always will be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw1234
The European has twisted and turned everything to fit his warped way of thinking. He has made himself the center of the world, indeed of the universe.
Have you ever heard the words Oriental and Occidental?
Orient means East and Occident means West. Now heres the twist. Europe, as put forth by the European, is the center of the world. Therefore, anything to its east is Oriental, while anything to its West is Occidental. This is what is meant by Eurocentric.
If Europe is not the center of the world then what is?
When a baby is born the most essential thing needed for survival is...Food...and where does this come from? The mother, therefore the Mother is central to the baby.
The cradle of civilization is Afrika. Afrika is the motherland. Therefore, Afrika is central to all of humanity. Now those whom we know today as Europeans are actually mutants who left the safe confines of the Motherland and evolved in Europe. Their food for survival was doctored by an unnatural mother. The side effects of their development outside of the natural womb has been albinism,aggression, and universal weakness predicated on their minority status in the world.
Unfortunatly its not as simple as just telling people whats going on.
I guess you have heard of the words Mankind and Human? We know that hue is Colour....human....hue-man... colour-man, man of colour. So that means humans are people of colour (thats brown,red,yellow et cetera.....) And melanin is the ingredient that produces skin colour. Europeans, mutants.
Mutants = something produced from...or an out-growth of ...anyway, these mutants dont have any melanin therefore they are colourless (White). As White is colourless its abnormal because the majority of the worlds people are hue-man. Which means they are ,as mutants , a kind of man, therefore mankind.
Look brothas.. alot of us are weak because mankind has cut off our nutrition from the Motherland. He has twisted the world so that Europe, the Mad Doctor, looks like the center. And we look abnormal.
:rasta: Oh its deeep:rasta:
Sounds like a load of Bullshite lol, have you been reading them stupid Farakhan books or Dr Malachi coz they both are fake ass wankers and chat the most amount of bullshite on this planet:)
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we can all sit still.. and not react... and get the truth for oneself..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass That Shit
"Yep. Goood debating skills you got there..."
Do you have proof that jesus did not raise from the dead? Do you have any proof that I will NOT raise from the dead?
Where are your debating skills?
Unbelief is pure speculation and theory. It's a lack of wisdom and knowledge. FAITH can't be touched.
That's just not true. Unbelief is supported by more facts than any religion could hope to be based on. Faith can't be touched? Faith in itself is ignoring facts and being led by an imaginary friend into an escape world where death isn't a problem and someone is looking out for you. You need to have faith because you cant take reality. The best part is hearing the retaliations the faithful give to my cold bullets of truth.
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prove to me the big bang or what ever idea you have to show where you came from.
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I dont need to prove anything to you. I HAVE FAITH!
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your faith that complex atoms exsist forever, but what caused them? where did the basic stuff come from? what explnation do you have? I am just tring to understand your point of view not trying to argue :)
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Actually, my statement was ment to be satirical of myself, in that both sides of the argument or both based of some form of faith. It's me taking a shot at myself.
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to jump from the idea that complex atoms could exsist and somehow caused a huge exploshion that made more matter and masses, to the idea that these things were created and life was given to us and were allowed to choose ither to draw close to the creator or reject the idea and die. I do not see that as a giant leap.
faith in all matter just happening to come about and form all the complex forms of life we see, is blind to not see that just the vastness of life and complex design of everything proves that it could not just come about. We all are allowed to look at what exsists and choose to except a creator and that we are in subjection to him or to choose to run our lifes for our selfs.
It's just the fact that all who choose to serve them self, all die and never come back. But thats why were here being allowed to choose the World or to choose God's way wich promises a paradice earth in the future.
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Jesus did not write the bible.
Men wrote the bible.
Men don't always speak the truth.
You can't argue that the bible doesn't contradict itself, nor can you argue that the book is orginal.
Many other faith and old myths speak of "A great flood" along with other similar stories in the bible. Ever read Giglimesh? Not exactly a work of faith, but non-the-less predates the bible. A true Cristian with debate skills can argue the contradictions found in the bible, however no one thinking for themselves can say they don't exist.
Bottom line, Jesus did NOT write the bible, therfor he did not once say Jesus lied.
I can't stand blind faith. People need to learn to think for themselves rather than believing all the bullshit they are fed. No this is not proof that a god doesn't exist, but seriously people stop following things so blindly...
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Yes! I agree. You nailed it on the last line.
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by following the bible you learn a peaceful life. and you learn that if all followed by the same rules we would all live a better life. so how is that so blind? I would love to live in harmony with everyone and live forever. all in peace and without greed.
Greed and hate have created this system we live in and not following what god has said got us here. you like this system of things?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogith
by following the bible you learn a peaceful life. and you learn that if all followed by the same rules we would all live a better life. so how is that so blind? I would love to live in harmony with everyone and live forever. all in peace and without greed.
Greed and hate have created this system we live in and not following what god has said got us here. you like this system of things?
You can learn peace without following the bible. Not to mention many evil acts have come as a result of relgion and the bible. The crusades?
Bush is a strong believer, it hasn't tought him peace? People shouldn't need this book to lead good lives. I think it bible is simply an old book. No different than Giglimesh or The Iliad. People shouldn't need the bible to teach them how to live a good life. Not to mention it fails at what you say. Priests molesting children, a god fearing president waging war, and the "head" of the Catholic Church insulting and provoking extremist muslims. Yes please, let's speak of all this good the bible as taught.
Religion is becoming outdated. I don't need a fear of God to treat my fellow man with respect. I have respect for my brothers because I live in a halfway civilized society, not because I'm in fear of spending eternity in the fire pit.
Religion was invented to control the populace and I firmly believe it is an evil and negative istitution. As for the bible, it shouldn't be needed to teach tolerance or peace.
Most Christians don't know how to treat others with respect. As I said I grew up around them. Look at the way's they view homosexuality... Yes I can see how great a job the bible has done teaching these people the meaning of respect and equality.
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just because humans decide to NOT follow the bible and Kill one another ( the Crusades) this proves it false? how so they are false not it's teachings. the cross is a idol. the ones who use it as a idol and justifucation for war are following satan. the bible says being gay is wrong. so suporting it is following satan again....
Following what the bible says means aplying it. thoses who don't are chooseing that path.
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The bible also say's none of us has the right to judge another for we have all sinned, yet it also tells us to judge the homo's because they take it from behind? Again you want to say that the bible teaches good yet you are saying it has given promission to treat a group of human beings like shit? Their is also a point in the bible where god strikes down a man and a woman because he spilled his seed on the ground. Do you have sex? Do you wear a condom? Do you masturbate? You are commiting a horrible sin according to the beloved bible. If you answer yes to any of this you are no better than the Homo's.
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god designed a man and a woman. going agenst what he has set for you is chooseing your path. we are all here right now able to choose our paths. God created all and has a right to set rules and ways for things to be done.
find me that scripture please. the seed on the ground
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan
I'm getting ready for bed so I went to my favorite website, wikipedia.com
I have pasted the contents below, but is much better to view it at the website. I hate the way things look when I just paste it.
Wikipedia states...
Onan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the Major League Baseball pitcher, see Onan Masaoka.
For Onan generators for RV, marine, home, commercial mobile, portable and APU applications see Cummins.
Onan (אוֹנָן "Strong", Standard Hebrew Onan, Tiberian Hebrew ʾÃ?nān) is a person described in the book of Genesis in the Bible.
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Narrative
Onan was the second son of Judah. After his older brother Er died, Onan was required by the tradition of levirate marriage to marry Er's widow Tamar. According to Genesis 38:7-9, when he had sexual intercourse with Tamar he "spilt his seed upon the ground" because the resulting child would be considered his late brother's, not his. In response to this transgression, God killed Onan. The transgression was disobeying God.
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Interpretations
The earliest interpretations were straightforward. What Onan had done was dishonor his dead brother and shirk his obligations. Exactly how he frustrated the purpose of levirate marriage was irrelevant. The text emphasizes the social or legal setting, with Judah describing what Onan has to do and why. The plain reading is that Onan's sin was refusal to provide his dead brother with an heir.
Medieval Catholic authors understood the activities of God in this story as a condemnation of contraception. This interpretation was held by important figures in the early Church, such as St. Jerome who makes explicit reference to Onan's sexual act:
But I wonder why he [the heretic Jovinianus] set Judah and Tamar before us for an example, unless perchance even harlots give him pleasure; or Onan, who was slain because he grudged his brother seed. Does he imagine that we approve of any sexual intercourse except for the procreation of children? (Against Jovinian 1:19, A.D. 393)
Clement of Alexandria, though he does not make explicit reference to Onanism, certainly reflects an early Christian view of the abhorrence of "spilling seed":
Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted. (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 A.D. 191)
To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature. (The Instructor of Children 2:10:95:3)
However, some modern Biblical scholars assert that Onan's primary sin was to violate the rules of levirate marriage. Possibly, the main purpose of these verses was to denote the punishment for violating the rules of levirate marriage, which was a divine law, rather than for practicing either coitus interruptus or masturbation. Most also understand the passage to refer to coitus interruptus.
More evidence against interpretation of Onan's sin as masturbation is contained in Leviticus 15, which discusses the ritual impurity resulting from heterosexual intercourse (verse 18) separately from that resulting from ejaculation (verses 16-17), implying that masturbation is not a capital offense.
The Book of Deuteronomy was written by Moses, (Deuteronomy 25:5-10 describes a way for the brother to decline this responsibility) who wrote long after the time of Onan. Onan was the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the Son of Isaac, The Son of Abraham. The time that has been estimated in which this occurence took place was the year 1729 B.C., Whereas the giving of the Law concerning the Brothers Duty, was given in 1451 B.C., 278 years seperate those events.
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Popular culture
Dorothy Parker quipped that her parakeet was named Onan because he spilled his seed.
David Foster Wallace in Infinite Jest depicts a future North American society governed by the Organization of North American Nations or O.N.A.N. Those opposed to the foreign policy of said government are known as anti-O.N.A.N.ists.
Momus, on his album Stars Forever, had a song titled "Onan the Barbarian".
The Catholic Church's teachings concerning birth control were the inspiration for the song, "Every Sperm is Sacred" in the movie, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life.
Mel Brooks describes a character named Onan in his recording (with Carl Reiner) of the 2013 Year Old Man. "Onan was falling one day and grabbed on to himself and fell in love."
In the computer game Enter The Matrix, after Ghost spars with Trinity, Trinity asks about getting Ghost a girlfriend, to which he responds that he responds to a higher power, namely "Onanism."
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan"
Category: Torah people
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read the whole passage of genesis 38 you will see that he was told to have relations with his sister inlaw and because the offspring was not going to be his own he decided to not have any and directly disobay god by waisting his seed. thus his death
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the law then was if your brother died and left a widow then you have to marry her and her 1st born will still be of your brothers line. he decided to not follow gods law. hence death.
we also need to undrstand that after jesus were under the new laws. no longer are men to have muti wifes. after jesus death were under the new covnent. Thats why we do NOT do burnt offerings anylonger ( jesus was the perfect offering to atone for our sins wich adom has passed to us)