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IT IS THE CONTINUED ABUSE !Quote:
Originally Posted by LegallyBlind
HAPPENING "TODAY" !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegallyBlind
Please read more carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
You misunderstood the comment,or are choosing to be deliberately obtuse, it is not about ancient history.
throw this fact into the mix: ... my next-door neighbor is a LEGAL Mexican immigrant, who HATES the illegal wetbacks sneaking over the border ... he and his wife patiently studied and completed the requirements for citizenship, and are proud Americans that resent people taking the 'easy' way into America, and is disgusted with people wanting to give a free pass to illegals unwilling to go through the necessary steps to LEGAL immigration ... I love and respect the Mexican immigrants, and understand WHY they want to be here, but they need to do it legally ... sneaking over the border in a lot of countries will get you shot, not just a free bus ride back to your country ... where in the hell were all you bleeding-hearts when people were being shot for climbing the Berlin Wall, or murdered on their return to Cuba ?? ... fucking phonyass crybaby liberals piss me off ... :mad:
Pray tell what this has to do with American Indians ?Quote:
Originally Posted by the image reaper
he aint a true mexicanQuote:
Originally Posted by the image reaper
all mexicans have indian blood in themQuote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
do u know how long that shit takes? they come here 2 work and help their famalies, who the fuck are white people 2 say if mexicans need 2 fill out paper 2 work, this aint the white mans country its the indians, and if the u.s. wouldnt haven jacked mexico nd the indians 4 thir land the u.s. wouldnt have shit. the u.s. just likes 2 gang up on countrys who they know are poor and dont have the type of weopons they do, and then they wonder why all the other countries hate themQuote:
Originally Posted by LegallyBlind
True,,, I was a little slow there man, my apologies.
The Conquistadors were just as bad as the Europeans who settled in the north.
Fuck these topics im a white male and i have never held a gun to a Native American and took his house nor have I forced a african american to farm my land. Sure what happened to the ancestors of Native americans and some african americans was terrible but that doesnt matter anymore slavery doesnt exist here anymore and to say that im a bad person because whites in the past had slaves and took land from slaves is racism towards me and I take offence. I dont owe any minority a thing I have done NOTHING wrong to them. To make you feel good the next Native american I meet who has had his land taken away for no reason or the Next African American I meet who was a slave I will hand them a .45 and tell them to shoot the guy who did it but that will NEVER happen. To all you minorities reading this YOU WERE NOT WRONGED YOUR ANCESTERS WERE. Hell my dead great grandfather was owed money by Frank Lloyd Wright I think im gonna go file a lawsuit tomorrow. IT WAS WRONG BUT ITS OVER ITS 2006 AND NO RACES ARE BEING OPPRESSED IN THE U.S. TODAY. STOP BEING A RACIST TOWARDS WHITES:mad: AND TO "BUDSMOKER" ITS NOT ALL WHITES STOPPING MEXICANS ITS ASIANS,BLACKS,NATIVE AMERICANS,AND LEGAL MEXICANS AND WHEN DID THE U.S. TAKE OVER MEXICO OOO WAIT NEVER
^ thats to you people who are racist to whites but as far as the topic goes the bikers should leave because its the native americans religious ground like a church for christians but the native americans should also be forced to pay for the land if they want it for themselves and no one else Christians,jews,muslims and other religions pay for there church,sinagog,mousk so the native american should pay for there place. I do think the bikers are wrong and should respect the native americans but it is a public place I can go to a park and have a picnic for 20 years on the same day every year until 1 year a group of fat hairy topless guys then call the cops and get them to leave. You know what the cops will say? they will tell me to deal with it and to respect one another. Maybe the Native Americans can accept the bikers being there for a day as long as they bikers respect the land.
Dank did you read what this "IS" about.
The continued ignorance and disrespect shown "TODAY" towards Native Americans , namely the desecration of what to them is a very important place, a place I might add that rightfuly belongs to them.
Dank I totally agree with you. There is a lot of racism towards whites. Probably more than towards any other group in the USA today. Even when applying for college and jobs minorities have a pryority to whites. Affirmitive action its bullshit.
Budsmoker, you're a moron. You said that Mexicans can't come to the US legally, I showed you evidence and then you say who wants to go through all that bullshit. Well thats what it takes if you want to be an American, so all the Mexicans that don't want to deal with that shit can get their asses deported and try again tommorow.
they took over mexico sometime in the 1800's, some of the states they took was california, arizona, and texas just 2 name a few, and that is bullshit that there still aint racisom in america, what about new orleans, george bush let a lot blacks die, and everytime i watch tv i see some rednecks always talking bout the mexicans are taking thir jobs when mexicans do most jobs whites wont do, and if your a minority and get stopped by white cops theres a good chance there gonna beat the fuck out of u even if u did no wrong, and i could go on 4 hours about how the white goverment is racist but im tired of typing:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by dank ass nugs
Clueless and racist again. The illegals are doing jobs that not many want at that payrate, not just whites.Quote:
Originally Posted by budsmoker
People know they can pay illegals less. If the illegals are receiving ONLY 1 dollar an hour less than legal workers that works out to $40 per 40 hour work week. Times that by 52 weeks and that's just over $2000 a year difference. $2000 A YEAR IS ON THE LOW END!!!! $2 dollars an hour is $4000 a year. Put your racist and anti American thoughts aside and think about that figure for a moment.
Dear Mel Gibson,Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
You forget about the 6 million Jews killed during WW2? More Jews killed than the total approximate population of Native Americans. It's easy to overlook I guess, I mean it's only 6 million Jews right. Just a drop in the bucket to guys like you, huh? Oh that's right you think it never happened.
but people legally are making a lot more than 1 more dollar per hour than illegals, not 2 mention illegals also cant have insurance and shit like that, no other race in america works a hard as hispanics 4 that kind of price, all they want 2 do is help support there family just like everybody else does, id hate 2 see this country if hispanics stop working in americaQuote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
Agreed. The Hispanics are indeed very hard workers. But I don't buy the claim from the fatcats who say "my business wouldn't make it without the cheap labor. If there is a market for a business and one guy can't make another one will. After a few generations do you think the hispanic population in America will work for low wages? I don'tQuote:
Originally Posted by budsmoker
The main problem is the money isn't going back into the system through payroll taxes as well as on on goods within the US. Instead the money is being sent out of the country.
see i dont believe that. people born in america get lazier every year imoQuote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
im not saying there are not hard working americans but there isnt enough of them that do the kind of jobs hispanics do, how many americans do u think would last working in the fields 8-12 hours a day in 100 degree weather and then get paid shit? not many i dont think
I'm going to assume you mean the Americans who have been here awhile. I'll address your post that way. More Americans are getting college level degrees or going to tech schools and not needing to do "entry" level jobs and labor intensive jobs UNLESS they pay well. That's not too hard to figure. Which job are you going to take if you have a choice? The illegals don't have that option.
But like I said as an example - if bosses are paying illegals $2 an hour less than legals that adds up to $4000 a year. You may not do a job for 16000 but will for 20000. Pay the higher wage and you attract the legals, dont and you get the illegals. And obviously since not much is being done about the illegal aliens people will continue to hire them.
Quite a few years back relatives from Down Under said the same thing, immigrants are needed for the hard labor jobs because the legals wont do it. The legals can get better paying jobs elsewhere. That's what it's all about the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
I forget nothing but what point are you trying to make?
Because 6 million Jews died that gives the US the right to tell the natives "yeah man think how many jews died"???
Because the jews died that excuses the current behaviour of the people of the states who are racist towards Indians?
Stick with the programme man.
This thread has nothing to do with Jews.
Why do you keep bringing them into a discussion about the modern day Indians ?
Typical ! trying to deviate from the main point is useless I will continue to bring it back to the real issue.
Psychocat do you not realize that Pigsnout made that comment because of your lie about ethnic cleansing on a level not seen since the Middle Ages? Quit warping what everyone else says and telling them not to go off topic when they are giving a relevant arguement to your lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegallyBlind
So rather than face the issue at hand you choose to nitpick over the debateable question of wether the biggest act of genocide was carried out against the American indiginous population or the Jews.
Tell me how that redresses the balance?
Or for that matter how pointing to the crimes of another somehow lets America off the hook as far as modern day treatment of the Indians is concerned??
Get real man.
Thats like saying yeah but Hitler picked on gipsies so it's ok for us to discriminate against the French????? WTF,it doesn't work that way does it.
Forget the jews for one minute and realise that the "CURRENT TREATMENT" of American natives is wrong !!!
No psychocat. We're not nitpicking over whicc is a bigger genocide. YOU TOLD A FLAT OUT LIE AND WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH IT. You can't just say whatever you want that sounds good and makes yourself look good if its not true. So when you get called out on a lie you told don't try to weasel your way out of it by saying stick to the issue at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
You are unbelievable!
1 The 6 million Jews you talk of weren't just jews they were anyone who dared to question the nazi regime and what that has to do with America and it's treatment of native americans today really is NOTHING!Quote:
Originally Posted by LegallyBlind
2 IMO the eradication of a whole tribe is worse.
3 Stop trying to distract from the matter by pointing out others failings (the sign of a weak or useless argument).
4 I believe an ongoing problem is not going to get solved if people like yourself refuse to accept that what is happening now is WRONG and repeatedly harp on about "but what about the ______ Nazis and the KKK and the ancient Romans" or whatever.
5 Why should the original owners of a country have to obey rules made by invaders?
What is unbelievable is the attempts to justify the BS going on in the US TODAY.
dank, the native indians owned the land in then1st place...did you read the article? It said that sturgis festival has caused a sprawl towards the butte. Sturgis itself is not the encroachment...it is the sprawl and new construction that has the Natives up in arms. Geez...buy their own land...what a meathead!
ffs...no really...FFS!
I've had it with the term 'Native American'...could it be anymore inappropriately assigned?
Where ever you as a person were born, makes you native to that region/area/local --- I was born in America, therefore I am a native American. If I was born on Mars, I'd not be an Earthling, I'd be a Martian.
As far as the widely misused term and how it applies to Indian cultures of the Americas...
Where did 'Native Americans' come from? Did they just pop up out of the ground?
No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.
There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.
As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.
Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.
One should also consider...American Indians were/are people too. They warred, they plundered. They would invade and sieze that which belonged to rival tribes ffs. Europeans did to them what many of them were already doing to one another. In other words, many of them were every bit the opportunist that the Europeans were...had the roles been reversed, human nature practically demands that Indians, if they had had better technology, would have been the ones infringing upon the Europeans.
What, you think that if 50,000 Indians sailed the atlantic, settled on the shores of a European nation, that they would have just planted maze and left the locals alone?
Yeah...fat chance eh.
So in closing...all the talk, and the bullshit about Europeans taking land all those centuries ago, and the ensuining ideal that somehow the decendants are owed something, is utter crap. The decendants of those peoples that were pushed out have about as much right to retribution as I do toward going to Germany and declaring they owe me something for how life was there 179 years ago that prompted an ancestor to pack up and leave for America.
Now, as far as a fukn panty waste biker rally is concerned...everything about such an event is absurd. Developing anything, be it land or business, for an annual event is so damn stupid I could choke.
Fukn noise polluters ought to have their own town somewhere. They're ignorant lot with a blatant disregard toward how loud and intrusive their ride of choice is.
So Indian peoples or not...I vote that anything biker related be kept confined to places where only they suffer hearing loss!
There are several theories/stories concerning the originals or Aboriginal peoples in this continent. You offer only one.Quote:
No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.
Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.Quote:
There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.
First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? :( And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:Quote:
As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.
Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.
It is no theory. Asian artifacts, that pre-date Indian tribes, but were manufactored after the land bridge was lost to the rising waters...have been being documented for several years now. As in, unless Asians threw these artifacts across the Baltic Sea, the people that made them did so from techniques passed through the generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogman81900323
That's a blind statement. For all you or I know, an ancestor of mine had a Inuit or Metis mate. It matters not though for fact that Homosapien originated in Africa. Peoples of the First Nation are claiming the wrong land as home.Quote:
Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.
Then if all the land was no one's to claim...why do decendants of American Indian tribes go around claiming one location or another belongs to them?Quote:
First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? :( And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:
Or better...why do they, today, hold deeds on/for land and man made structures?
My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.
Even though many practiced a lifestyle that was motivated on being harmonious with nature...they were still human.
Is this the part where I cite all the pitfalls of humanity?
My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There'sYeah, they're human and not more human than anyone else, but a great injustice has been handed to them for the past 150 years or longer. And there is no romanticizing that plain, cold fact away. It won't disappear because we wish it. There need's to be some discussion. Break out the peace pipes and fill 'em with the sweetest grass of em' all, bruthaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa!Quote:
been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.
I guess it just makes me mad to think that some old farts with their kitsch motorcycles and leather tassles disturb significant religious ceremonies. I guess it shouldn't surprise me but still you would think they would have more class than that!
The 6 million WERE Jews, millions of others were murdered by nazis as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Quote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
Way off topic.
How does this relate to what is a question of respect towards the spiritual feelings of the Indians ?
They were there first so why should a biker rally take precedence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Way off topic? You were the one who first mentioned it. Put the pipe down down for a bit before answering next time. LMAO
Wrong !Quote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
You have an extremely short and distorted memory.
You mentioned the Nazi attempt to eradicate the Jews not I.
Whole tribes were wiped out in America, the killing of the jews had fuck all to do with that.
I was replying to your off topic remark.
This thread is about something different altogether.
I see it as respect not given by Sturgis and the bikers (PS I am a biker myself) to people who should be left in peace after all the shit they've had to put up with through the years.
Discrimination based on the idea that the European settlers were somehow superior to the "savages".
You don't get it. paparose first brought the topic up. Then you a few posts down Very well said papaQuote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Agreeing with it, supporting his statements, his thought process.
But not your words? Same thing.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
you lost meQuote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Quote:
Originally Posted by budsmoker
Can you point to anything indians run successfully? The indian casino here has indians parking cars, serving drinks, checking id, doing everything but handling money. Why is that? I once saw a media report on a big ceremony, the government built all these new buildings on the reserve, and it was so great. 6 months later every window was smashed and the place was trashed. No one will convince me that they would do good job of running shit. Sorry if it sounds racist, but i rarely see indians doing anything but drink. Im not calling them savages but to act like they were the eco hippies of the 1400s is revision of history. Some parts of canada, like the praries, are overun with indian gangs and crime. I think alot of people have a very very romanticised idea of indians.
BTW sturgis is an american institution now. It brings millions to the state of whatever dakota that is from all over the world. Ruining some indian prayers, fuck off. That area is giant empty place all those states like montana dakota etc are like no people per square mile, pray somewhere else. Alot of times it only becomes "sacred land" when people want to develop it and the indians think they can get some money out of it. Ive seen it over and over again. How long does sturgis even last? A week? People in daytona put up with it, suck it up.
"the government built all these new buildings on the reserve, and it was so great. 6 months later every window was smashed and the place was trashed."
I guess the Indians didn't think they were so great....LOL
Wrong againQuote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
This is the post I said well said to, please indicate where it mentions the Nazi extermination of Jews ?Quote:
Originally Posted by paparose
It would seem that you were in fact the first to mention the Jews plight in Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by PigSnout
Do you get called colostomy bag a lot ??
Cause you are really full of shit.
Indians not Jews are the issue now please stop with the BS distraction tactics.
Your mouth and racist garbage is where the stink is.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
your post
And pray tell what do Pearl Harbour and 9/11 have to do with the original owners of the land you call home?
What about all the Indian women murdered and raped by your own ancestors ?
Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages and even now they are treat like second rate citizens . Where do you think the KKK recruit , I'll tell you where from the decendants of a bunch of killers and rapists
Never bring a knife to a gun fight ?? WTF! That I'm going to ignore simply because I find it such a retarded thing to say.
Please think before you post and at least make it relevant.
My bad sometimes I think everyone can think outside the box, you cannot.
First off the Pearl Harbor reference was in response to the idiotic "lets everybody fight with the same weapons".
Then you jump right in with "Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages "
Still with me?
(btw-This is what you do, trying to relate something that happened over 200 years ago to something today.)
Now take it to the next level which is your point about bringing up the Holocaust. The Holocaust=ethnic cleansing. I think most people are in agreement that these are similar. You in fact brought the issue up before I did. My post was in response and related to your post.
Racist ? Resorting to name calling?
Indians massacred long before the Jewish death camps(again I must point out that not everyone who died was Jewish) and therefore at that time were unprecedented (Don't forget the massacres carried out by the conquistadors).
Regardles the comparison is really neither here nor there as I already said , the problem seems to be you wish to adress everything except the issue.
You are wasting my time by harping on about nothing if you are so obsessed with the Holocaust then start a thread about it but otherwise try to stay on topic yeah.
The Indians deserve more respect than is being shown , now if you would like to adress this issue instead of trying to sideline maybe you would be left with nothing to say , maybe thats why you have to keep swerving.
Whats next , are you going to start babbling about anti american or calling me a liberal ? it seems to be the par for those who have nothing constructive to contribute.
the white cracker honkey man will not stop lying, decieving, killing, raping and burning until every last brown person on this planet is either dead or subdued to the point of being slavery without the title. DEATH TO WHITEY! ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALAA!!!!!!!!!!%&%$%! im a mutt, i have practically everything in me including whiteness(which i *ahem* secretely despise) and can say without a doubt that the americans will not stop until white people rule the earth!Quote:
Originally Posted by paparose