Terror Storm

[QUOTE=graymatter] The government behaves the way WE elect them to?

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You have answered your own question and have shown your own doubt in the system.

I do agree with Birdgirl on the point of the sinister music and flash type bring on the feel of impending doom. And it has a negetive impact on AJ's overall message, like the very propaganda he protests he is useing fear to get results.

Allot of people dont recognize the importance of sound on a given situation. You can take the Rodney King beating, set it to mozart and it suddenly wont seem as bad as it really was.

On the other hand however, I think it irresposible to overlook the questions posed in the video, simply because you dont like the music.

Dont overlook the admitted attacks that goverments have perpetrated for their own benefit, Gulf of Tonkin, Northwoods.

Our goverment does act as we have elected them to, why do you think we only have 2 choices for commander and chief ? Doesnt really matter which we elect, both sides seem to have the same agenda, to further divide the American people.

We are being led, we are not being given enough, truthful information, and I for one dont like the path. A consipacy is only a theory if you dont have evidence that supports the theory, calling something a conspiracy theory when so much evidence is present to support it, to me seems illogical.

I dont think it a theory at all to say that we have been lied to, and scared into giveing up our freedoms.

My opinion is that that most fall into a state of denial following the path of the victim. That is to say that in ones mind it is easier to except a false truth rather than face the pain of being made a victim. On a smaller scale you can see this cycle in battered wives.

"He made a mistake, he really loves me" she tells the police with a broken nose and a black eye.

" these copnsipacy theorists are crazy" we say to ourselves with our freedoms eroding, and our troops in a foreign land fighting based on a known lie.

The way AJ comes across is extreme yes, but that shouldnt erode the overall message. Look thru your own fear, and actually consider the information.

Hey, Marlborro, I think our government is what WE make of it. Even if they tried to plot 9/11 they'd of fucked it up.

But I'd be curious how many people that subscribe to this stuff actually vote, write, call, badger, cajole or visit their elected representatives?

My guess is that very few of them do. If they did, they'd be more invested in--and feel more responsible for--the government. Instead, with complete disconnection, the government becomes the conspiratorial, sinister, predatory "they" the conspiricists all want us to be so afraid of.

I agree APATHY is the true killer of democracy.

However both of you have, again, sidestepped the the topic of conversation and again, ignored the questions raised in the original post, via the AJ video.

An example of the questions:

Are the so called "facts" stated in the video actually facts?

If they are, then that leads to even more questions.

In my opinion the video in question is one mans answer to to one question given that the "facts" are true.

Whats it all leading upto?

AJ says its global tyrrany, I say I have no idea altho its clear there is a goal.

What do you say it is?

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Originally Posted by Marlboroman

Whats it all leading upto?

AJ says its global tyrrany, I say I have no idea altho its clear there is a goal.

What do you say it is?

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I don't know, either, Marlborro, but perhaps it means,

A) God and Satan battle it out on PPV but Charles Manson wins
B) Global Powerball yields bigger jackpots
C) In a cost savings measure IBM outsources their helpdesk to Mars
D) Cheaper tariffs on French wine... who can afford it now?

Sorry, got a little carried away....

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Originally Posted by eg420ne

Video showing False Flag events throughout history :thumbsup: By Alex Jones

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...-+Terror+Storm

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so i've watched about 30 minutes of it because i can't watch the rest right now, it was nothing i didn't already know...but all it did so far was go over the history of governments using staged terrorism and using deliberate propaganda through their media to portray something different to get the population to go along with war abroad and tyranny at home.

hitler, the cia coup in iran/operation ajax, operation gladio, the gulf of tonkin, cuban flight 455, the uss liberty (one of the most egregious in my opinion, next to 9/11), the madrid 3/11 bombing, the london 7/7 bombing (the bus that the police had control of that was rerouted to where there are no stops for it, to tavistock square, the patsy "terrorists" and everything else to do with that that's too numerous to mention, that lady who says we should give up our liberty for freedom...wow. what can i say about that. talk about doublethink.)...

history's full of it and it continues to go on and none of it is a secret anymore. it's just easier for some to ignore.

I'm curious what the conspiracist "call to action" is.

That is, assuming you can get enough people to buy into the idea that our governments have staged terroristic acts in order to achieve global tyranny, what do you expect everyone to do? How do you expect us to change our behavior or somehow change these so-called circumstances? What's your goal in disseminating this information you believe so stongly in?

If you believe those of us who are skeptical of conspiracies are ignoring vitally important facts, what do you think will become of us that'll somehow be different from what'll happen to those of you who've seen conspiracies around every corner? When tyranny finally reigns supreme, will we who've been blithely "burying our heads in the sand" be more vulnerable than you?

Also, do you also see conspiracies in other areas of life? In your spouses and children? Your bosses at work? Your physicians and accountants? The guy at the Taco Bell drive-through? I'm curious about that, too.

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Originally Posted by graymatter

I don't know, either, Marlborro, but perhaps it means,

A) God and Satan battle it out on PPV but Charles Manson wins
B) Global Powerball yields bigger jackpots
C) In a cost savings measure IBM outsources their helpdesk to Mars
D) Cheaper tariffs on French wine... who can afford it now?

Sorry, got a little carried away....

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I can only guess what your trying to say is that what im talking about makes no sense to you, so your saying things that make no sense to me.

But what I clearly see is that you seem to be unable to view the occurrences with an open mind, and without a doubt unable to discuss them in a mautre manner.

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Originally Posted by GreenKing11

I don't think Mr. Jones was radical or went too far at all, is he supposed to sugar coat the truth? I challenge anyone hear to prove anything in that documentary wrong. It's just all conspiracy theories that our government has staged admitted, actual admitted terror attacks, tons of them, in the last 60 years. Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, etc... etc.. I would include 9/11 but that's not admitted.

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what i saw so far was hardly radical...talking about history...yeah, that's really out there.

how are you supposed to sugar coat our country turning into a pan american union dictatorship through a series of staged terrorist attacks?

Present us with something--video, text, whatever--Marlboroman, that presents these so-called facts in an open-minded, unbiased fashion, and you'll have a better chance of getting a more serious examination of those facts from us skeptics. My impression is that no such unbiased single source for these "facts" exists.

I find Gray's penchant for answering absurdity with more ludicrous absurdities rather charming. Conspiracist gravity unfailingly meets his humorous depravity.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

I'm curious what the conspiracist "call to action" is.

That is, assuming you can get enough people to buy into the idea that our governments have staged terroristic acts in order to achieve global tyranny, what do you expect everyone to do? How do you expect us to change our behavior or somehow change these so-called circumstances? What's your goal in disseminating this information you believe so stongly in?

If you believe those of us who are skeptical of conspiracies are ignoring vitally important facts, what do you think will become of us that'll somehow be different from what'll happen to those of you who've seen conspiracies around every corner? When tyranny finally reigns supreme, will we who've been blithely "burying our heads in the sand" be more vulnerable than you?

Also, do you also see conspiracies in other areas of life? In your spouses and children? Your bosses at work? Your physicians and accountants? The guy at the Taco Bell drive-through? I'm curious about that, too.

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Well I for one see no course of action to be taken, simply because I am not convinced of a specific outcome.

I have no idea what is to come in the future. I think if what AJ says is true then no, you are no more vulnerable then me. Nor do I pretend to know what to do in order to change said outcome.

I am not disseminating any information, I am simply trying to discuss the information at hand.

No, I do not see conspiracies around every corner, when I notice something is going on, the first question I ask myself is does it effect me, then, how does it effect me, then, is there a course of action to be taken, then, what course of action can be taken, then, whether I want to take action.

So far on all of the global tyranny issues I am still on how does it effect me, since I have not seen all of the effects on myself the rest of the questions cannot be answered.

Some of the effects, high gas prices, friends children wounded or killed in action, daily anxiety rideing LIRR trains and MTA subways, higher prices in comsumer goods due to gas pricing, random bag searches in PENN station/Grand Central Station/Subway stations, being subject to K-9 searches while waiting for the train.

The only information I know to be fact, is that WE as a country are giveing up freedoms in the face of a threat.

How the forfeit of these freedoms will effect me in the future cannot be known. Will these freedoms ever be returned? This also can not be known.

There is enough evidence to suggest that the threat we are under may not be the threat we are told it is.

All I am trying to do is have an adult conversation with other adults about how these issues affect our lives.

Simply saying there is nothing you can do about these things is the verbal form of the difinition of APATHY.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Present us with something--video, text, whatever--Marlboroman, that presents these so-called facts in an open-minded, unbiased fashion, and you'll have a better chance of getting a more serious examination of those facts from us skeptics. My impression is that no such unbiased single source for these "facts" exists.

I find Gray's penchant for answering absurdity with more ludicrous absurdities rather charming. Conspiracist gravity unfailingly meets his humorous depravity.

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Well I am not here to present you with any information, merely to discuss the information at hand. I have already agreed with you that the presntation style of AJ is fear based, however so is O'Rielly.

I am able to put aside the biased presentation, and look at the information presented, if the information that is presented in the video is false then in this thread you should show proof of it being fictitious.

Can you show an unbiased presentation to that account?

I see that you are indeed simply wanting to discuss the facts, Marlboroman. And I can understand that. Actually, you weren't the information "disseminator" I was referring to there. I think Pissy is the main disseminator here on this board.

So the freedoms you feel you've given up are those such as wiretapped phones, other things covered by the Patriot Act, gas prices, searches, etc.? I'm not sure how the sacrifice of these freedoms has affected me, either, or whether or not I currently believe it has affected me personally. I know I don't want my child sacrificed to a war with Iran (or any other war, for that matter, but I think at least our actions in Afghanistan have valid justificaiton).

Pardon me for changing the topic briefly here, MarlboroMan, but who in the world is that pictured in your avatar? The face looks eerily familiar, but I can't identify him. Looks a bit like one of the characters on one of the Brit-coms I sometimes watch.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

I see that you are indeed simply wanting to discuss the facts, Marlboroman. And I can understand that. Actually, you weren't the information "disseminator" I was referring to there. I think Pissy is the main disseminator here on this board.

So the freedoms you feel you've given up are those such as wiretapped phones, other things covered by the Patriot Act, gas prices, searches, etc.? I'm not sure how the sacrifice of these freedoms has affected me, either, or whether or not I currently believe it has affected me personally. I know I don't want my child sacrificed to a war with Iran (or any other war, for that matter, but I think at least our actions in Afghanistan have valid justificaiton).

Pardon me for changing the topic briefly here, MarlboroMan, but who in the world is that pictured in your avatar? The face looks eerily familiar, but I can't identify him. Looks a bit like one of the characters on one of the Brit-coms I sometimes watch.

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I dont want my children to go to war either, I wont use the word sacrifice because it lends itself to the belief that their death would be for a given outcome.

I am not convinced that the US invasion of Afganistan was justified either. With there being so much evidence that the twin towers were brought down by explosives, that would make Afganistan based on a lie. I am not convinced of either theory, terrorist, or explosives.

About being effected by the freedom breaches, ya that is certainly a tough one, I believe the patriot act also defines the term "terrorist" as being anyone who "protest" the US Gov. policies. "protest" also being defined.

To those accounts I cannot be positive, but I do know that they can deem anyone a "terrorist" and detain them for any length of time with no disclosure to anyone as to what evidence supports their claims.

It hasnt happen to me and more than likely never will, altho that doesnt settle my uneased feeling that it shows progression in an alarming direction.

The Avatar is just a pic I pulled off the net, I think it funny to have such a hillbilly looking man with my name, sort of the anti Marlboroman if you will.

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Originally Posted by Marlboroman

Can you show an unbiased presentation to that account?

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No, nothing more than mainstream news and their attribution of the 9-11 events to terrorists. But I'm a trained journalist myself, and so I feel certain that if the evidence were overwhelmingly in favor of some other cause of those events like a government conspiracy, they'd be all over that. As it stands now, I only see a very fringe element who seems to believe that angle. So I will continue to remain very skeptical.

I've got to sign off for a bit now. I just made the decision to wash my neighbor's cat, and it was very traumatic for both of us. I'm the only one with lacerations, however. My neighbors don't accept responsibility for this animal or care for it, and it was filthy. I'm preparing to introduce it into my household now that it's clean. (Assuming it'll forgive me and I survive these cuts.) Be back online later!

Birdgirl, look up Martial Law, 9/11: Rise of the Police State on video.google.com. It's Alex Jones last documentary.
I'd say about 99% of documentaries use music in the background.. In specific what does he do to try and persuade people other than using the facts? He makes his documentary look professional and high quality, that is all. Is he not supposed to do that?

"open minded, unbiased fashion" What did Alex Jones say that was not open minded or unbiased? Alex Jones has been doing this for probably 15 years, I don't think he needs to say.. "well, George W. Bush just might be a nice guy, I don't know, I need to be unbiased and open minded." What the hell did he say that wasn't a fact? Can you even answer that? I don't think Alex Jones needs to do anything except do what he's doing, present the facts and the truth of what is going on. He's sick of watching America be destroyed so he's doing something about it.

I'd say I'm pretty sick of the New World Order and Neo-cons running sex-slave rings of children, setting up terrorist attacks, slaughtering thousands of people, etc... Do I have to wear a smile just because it might look like I'm not open minded? No, I'm fucking mad about it. The only thing I need is the truth and the facts.

Look up the official documents! Operation Northwoods(government planning on staging terrorist attacks and pinning the blame on Cuba), Presidential Decision Direct WI199(Bush ordered feds off of al' qeada in the months before 9/11), PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defenses(where Cheney says they need a "pearl harbor" like event to speed up the new world order), declassified documents. Are those documents not open minded, are those documents bias?

Ever wonder why conspiracy theorists see possibility...and skeptics always wave the propaganda flag?

Tell ya what folks...paranoid, cynics, and conspiracy theorists are a tool for digging up what actually is fact and truth.

The more noise any of those types make, the more a person should take notice and give those folks an audience.

(it doesnt take long to realize you're speaking with someone rational, or someone somewhere in the neighborhood of Jupiter.)

And then you have to EXPECT a counter from those that are working and manipulating fact.

Take today for example...it took 4 days for George Bush and Dick Cheney to get their undies in a knot regarding the fact that the NY Times had outed yet another secret tool of the administration. lol...and those two fukwits act like its top secret and crucial that the U.S. has been tracking finacial records of targeted individuals for as long as I can recall.

Manuel Antonio Noriega anyone?

Hey, I'm not suggesting every theory is valid. But if you're a seeker of truth, ya owe it to yourself to roll up your sleeves and make sound, logical choices about the things presented to you.

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Originally Posted by Marlboroman

I can only guess what your trying to say is that what im talking about makes no sense to you, so your saying things that make no sense to me.

But what I clearly see is that you seem to be unable to view the occurrences with an open mind, and without a doubt unable to discuss them in a mautre manner.

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Marlborro, I actually respect the fact that you're holding out judgment. You seem like a thoughtful person.

And I didn't mean to offend you but I've seen enough of this to conclude it's rubbish. My point earlier was never really answered. How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident/non? The answer is they gave it to him because they were sleeping on the job, and he pretty much started our failed policy in Vietnam, but it wasn't anywhere close to world domination.

One correction, don't assume I'm immature because I give flip and satiricle responses.... Peace.

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Originally Posted by graymatter

Marlborro, I actually respect the fact that you're holding out judgment. You seem like a thoughtful person.

And I didn't mean to offend you but I've seen enough of this to conclude it's rubbish. My point earlier was never really answered. How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident/non? The answer is they gave it to him because they were sleeping on the job, and he pretty much started our failed policy in Vietnam, but it wasn't anywhere close to world domination.

One correction, don't assume I'm immature because I give flip and satiricle responses.... Peace.

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I dont think that AJ was makeing Tonkin bay out to be a play for world domination, but rather offering it as historical evidence as to attacks that have been committed by governments on themselves.

When you put your imagination to it you can come up with a whole slue of outcomes and reasons to what is going on, around the world and here at home. With that in mind I'll say that there are entirely too many cenarios to make a guess. Which in my eyes is what AJ is doing, he's makeing an educated guess, nothing more. I think he believes what he is saying to be true.

I also have seen too much evidence to completely discount what the man is saying, altho that doesnt mean I have to believe it as he does.

This is the ability to have empathy, to understand what and how someone believes without shareing their emotion for it.

Correction noted, to call you imature is not valid.

I'm going to do a sanity-saving thing here and withdraw from this thread now. It's been nice chatting with everyone, but I'm clearly now only inciting more conspiracists, and to be completely honest, that both spooks and exhausts me. I see this as a snowballing uphill battle.

Best of luck with your conspiracies! (I'm not sure what the proper parting words are here.) Marlboro, I hope we'll talk again. I respect what you've said here.

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Originally Posted by graymatter

How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of TonkinWar Declared incident/non?

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I'll have a go at that...and say...momentum, persuasion, manipulation, and then a really nice one...doing what they believe will secure their seat in an upcoming election.

Have a look at the historical records of every publicly known war/confrontation ever since such things went 'formal'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara..._United_States

Out of 24 declarations, 5, (Iraq, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf, Mexican American War, and the war of 1812- two of those two centuries ago), received any contention from opposed members of either the House or The Senate.

Food for thought eh.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

No, nothing more than mainstream news and their attribution of the 9-11 events to terrorists. But I'm a trained journalist myself, and so I feel certain that if the evidence were overwhelmingly in favor of some other cause of those events like a government conspiracy, they'd be all over that. As it stands now, I only see a very fringe element who seems to believe that angle. So I will continue to remain very skeptical.

I've got to sign off for a bit now. I just made the decision to wash my neighbor's cat, and it was very traumatic for both of us. I'm the only one with lacerations, however. My neighbors don't accept responsibility for this animal or care for it, and it was filthy. I'm preparing to introduce it into my household now that it's clean. (Assuming it'll forgive me and I survive these cuts.) Be back online later!

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I would think that being a trained journalist that you would noticed coincidents, patterns or whatever you would like to call the smoke from the fire, and then form questions based on those observations.

Seems odd to me that being trained as a journalist you wouldnt be able to filter out the theatrics and focus on the information being given.

Do you not have unanswered questions of your own?

I can filter out the theatrics and have. But the theactrics themselves, along with other matters, still cause me to question the validity of the info.

Sure I have questions. I have questions about all of it, from the official line stories to the conspiracies. I'm too smart not to.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

I can filter out the theatrics and have. But the theactrics themselves, along with other matters, still cause me to question the validity of the info.

Sure I have questions. I have questions about all of it, from the official line stories to the conspiracies. I'm too smart not to.

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Care to share?

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Originally Posted by slowthestone

I'll have a go at that...and say...momentum, persuasion, manipulation, and then a really nice one...doing what they believe will secure their seat in an upcoming election.

Have a look at the historical records of every publicly known war/confrontation ever since such things went 'formal'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara..._United_States

Out of 24 declarations, 5, (Iraq, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf, Mexican American War, and the war of 1812- two of those two centuries ago), received any contention from opposed members of either the House or The Senate.

Food for thought eh.

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Hey, slowthestone, good point on the war making consent. Checks and balances don't typically kick in until we see the progress/lack and the toll.

I think the argument centers on intentions. AJ makes his millions on the message that some malevolent force guides the intentions of world leaders to seek global domination. If people really believe this then I might just suggest we move these threads to Spirituality.

I don't need to dive into the minutia of every proposition to understand the absurdity of the theme. Political leaders lead a sloppy, contentious battle to achieve their aims in varying degrees of success and failure. So, while I believe GW's administration is arrogant and short sighted, I don't believe they have Frodo's ring or Darth Vader's playbook... Peace!

so i watched the rest of it. the music didn't really bother me. overall, it looked like a typical documentary. the graphics and animations weren't an eye-sore, it looked like something you'd see on cable.

but that's not what's important, that stuff doesn't matter. the information it contained is what's important, and it's all documented.

i'll do my best to keep an open mind and not pay attention to it.

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Originally Posted by pisshead

i'll do my best to keep an open mind and not pay attention to it.

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OK Piss, as funny as this statement is, doesnt mean noone is paying attention.

To me keeping an open mind means, trying my best to view both sides objectively.

If what AJ says is true, then what would you suggest we as the people do about it?

If it goes as far as he says, then how do you propose to stop the progession?

Because, going down that road to me screams revolution, I could be wrong, and i hope i am, I would hope that even if AJ is right, there would still be a peacefull end to it all.

I watched all of terror storm...and then I found 'loose change'.

It's far more compelling, way less ranty big mouth with a blow horn...and left me feeling like I got kicked in the gut...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81991288263801