Bush calls for gay marriage ban

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

So Breukelen, do you really believe that last part--about it being the best thing? Or are you simply being a provacateur?

I certainly hope science doesn't completely take over the burden, as you call it, of producing children! I enjoyed the old-fashioned way of conception. Still do! And I just loved being pregnant. Wish it had happened easily for me so I could have had five or six more.

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I'm not provoking anything, I'm just expressing my opinion - which is that the world isn't any better off because of the human race. We are an incredibly arrogant, and destructive, species of animal.

I don't doubt that you, and most other people, love having children. Eventually, there will be a limit as to how many they can produce. China has already started this.

Before we destroy the whole planet and everything on it, the human race should exit with dignity - and allow for the possibility of a better world, and more intelligent life, to develop. Of course, an unselfish act like this is beyond the scope of the human species' intelligence and ego.

[QUOTE=braddog10]Very good to see you my friend,
To attempt to clear up some confusion. Jesus (Quoted) was addressing a group of religious leaders that were under the perception that they had no sin. Jesus developed ~ expanded~ the origonal 10 comandments. You've murdered, if you have hated a brother~ Commited adultry, by looking at some gorgious chick and lusting after her.....etc...etc....

Haven't we all done this?... Of Coarse!!

If you don't mind, I hate to see people labor under a percieved bizzare excess .....from God that is not real.

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

I'm not provoking anything, I'm just expressing my opinion - which is that the world isn't any better off because of the human race. We are an incredibly arrogant, and destructive, species of animal.

I don't doubt that you, and most other people, love having children. Eventually, there will be a limit as to how many they can produce. China has already started this.

Before we destroy the whole planet and everything on it, the human race should exit with dignity - and allow for the possibility of a better world, and more intelligent life, to develop. Of course, an unselfish act like this is beyond the scope of the human species' intelligence and ego.

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I understand your expanded statement here much better. You're quite right that we've been awfully destructive to our world. And that to allow for the possibility of a better world would be an unimaginably unselfish act.

f

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.[/QUOTE]



You make claims, such as "People are born atheist, and have to learn Deism".
Breuk, statements like this, can be thrown out, by eather side, But, I have difficulty seeing any relevance.

By your zeal and your links, I'd say your heavily programed, and now ~ blind to an awsome creation, Hows' your world working? Huh?...

Hows' your relationships?

How happy are you? how bout those around you?

Ask your self these questions. I allready know what the answers are.

I know plenty others.... Sad Freakin Existence.

Those concerned, the first Para. above is Bruek, Quote.

Breuk your hypocracy, is no less than the religious hypocrites you criticize.

Just like the same piece of crap, rolled over on its other side, with a renewed stinch,..... both need to be flushed.

Enjoy your life.

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Originally Posted by braddog10

f

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.

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You make claims, such as "People are born atheist, and have to learn Deism".
Breuk, statements like this, can be thrown out, by eather side, But, I have difficulty seeing any relevance.

I did not say "Deism". It was "Theism". Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, and did not take the Bible literally.

By your zeal and your links, I'd say your heavily programed, and now ~ blind to an awsome creation, Hows' your world working? Huh?...

The attemped religous programming of my youth did not work on me. My brain is not capable of processing nonsense, or responding to imaginary threats with fear.

My "world", as you put it, is fine, thank you - since I have been a rational thinker, as much as possible, for many years.

Hows' your relationships?

My "relationships" are fine - I'm happily married.

How happy are you? how bout those around you?

I'm happy enough, probably more than most people. Being happy is one of the most important aspects of life, IMO. Being "Blue" sometimes is inevitable; How you deal with it is what matters. Of course, the old saying that "ignorence is bliss" is still true. Unfortunatly, I'm not in that category.

Ask your self these questions. I allready know what the answers are.

I differ in that I do NOT know "the answers". I believe that it was Socrates who said something like, "I'm the smartest man in the world, because I know that I don't know anything'".

I know plenty others.... Sad Freakin Existence.[/QUOTE]

Yes, being a slave to a religous belief system IS a sad existence. Release your mind from it's shackles of beliefs and you too can experience freedom of thought.

Have a good W/E! :cool:

Hey, Bruek,

A little deceptive aren't ya. Placing your sick statement, as if I wrote that.

I know you have a sick life, You folks sceam intolerance.
again, your own hypocracy,.... buddy, your shit stinks.

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Originally Posted by braddog10

Hey, Bruek,

A little deceptive aren't ya. Placing your sick statement, as if I wrote that.

I know you have a sick life, You folks sceam intolerance.
again, your own hypocracy,.... buddy, your shit stinks.

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No, I would not do that - my history of posting here goes way back, and proves that I've never done anything like that deliberatly. I just wasn't paying attention to the error - but anybody can just read the thread to see who said what anyway.

The only "sick" thing that I see is a constant barrage of quotes, as if they are worthwhile, from a book that has brought more misery to the human race than anything else man has created throughout history

And, make no mistake about this: NO religous book is "divine" - it is all the figment of human imagination. No man has ever communicated with a god, and never will. That is what the Founding Fathers believed - and if you say that I am "sick", then you can just as well say that Jefferson, T. Paine, Washington, and others were, as well.

Breuk,

How is it that you insist on describing my neighborhood, insist it looks a certain way, and what the street lay out is, and have never been there.

You may believe that you have been exposed to Christianity, but, you know nothing of what I have observed and know to be true.

No one that is as jacked as you are, in their hatred of God, can go by and not have serious spiritual problems. Don't give me your line that you just don't believe. People don't get so wired over something like that. It is apparent that you have some major baggage.

To note that you immediately jumped in and attacked, on the thread "a fool believes in his heart that there is no God" on the spiritual forum. reveals some real problems. Have I ever initiated an attack on you?

You so readily quote the Bible, But, when it is explained in it's appropriate context, you get tweeked because ... Oh, God isn't so bad after all.

Well,.... We can't have that!

Live and let live.... please shelve your narcissism.

...

But you know..that is his burden of hate to carry...oh and I oppose gay marriage and homosexuality..no I am not politically correct and no I don't hate..respect my right to not condone those practices...I don't have to like it and I don't..plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by braddog10

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Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:

God does have a sense of humor..

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Originally Posted by graymatter

Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:

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Exactly.

Braddog is simply ignoring the questions and going on a personal attack.

Maybe he does not know "the answers", which he claims to be in possession of, after all. :dance:

When ultra-religious people come on here all high and mighty, and think that they can teach us a thing or two about "god", they get disturbed when others disagree. This is how many problems in the world start - and is a perfect example of the dangers involved with actions based on delusional thinking. Our president is a good example of a similar mentality.

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Originally Posted by graymatter

Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:

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Thanks Gray.

I know, Thanks Buddy, I've been way off lately, emailed birdgirl about it last pm. I don't get it. A bit on the dull side. I haven't been home in two and a half months, My wife came up 4 weeks ago, Don't know how long project will last.
Gotta buy tickets out three weeks in advance, don't know if I'll be here. should have just bought em anyway. It's still 7 bills for next week, looks like I'll just have to bite it.
Got to step back out
preciatit.

Hope you feel better soon, Braddog. Sorry you're such a lonely wolf right now. Definitely find a way to hook up with your wife no matter what. That's important!

Picked up a ticket for thurs Am., not comin back until tues pm.
Wife's, elated, I'm relieved. More relief expected once I arrive.

Yes, there are Gays and lesbians, Yes they want to marry. Gotta finish on topic.

I'm not gay, but I have gay friends. On this issue, I ask myself this simple question: if my gay friends are able to be married, how does this harm me? I can't figure out any way their being married does me, or anyone, any harm. Conversely, does their being married do any GOOD for anyone? Yes, it does good, for them at least. Thus, the net effect is good. So, why not?

There's no way such a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage would pass anyway, and everyone knows it. While 2/3 of the Senate and House might approve of such a ban (doubtful), I am certain that 2/3 of the states are not (yet) that bigoted/prejudiced.

Stupid issue, because it's a pointless waste of time.

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again.

Forty or so years ago my marraige would have been illegal in some (Southern) States. You see, I'm White and my wife is Chinese. It wasn't until 1967 that the Supreme Court declared laws against mixed-race marraiges unconstitutional. Those in favor of the laws used many of the same arguments that those against gay marraiges use today: "Against God's plan", "Against Nature", etc etc.

Personally, I'm not religious and don't believe in God, so I don't really give a rat's ass if someone's marraige is "against God's plan" . I would be seriously pissed if some Bible thumping fucknut told me I couldn't get married because God didn't mean for Whites and Asians to mix.

For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

So, any religious arguments against gay marraige are simply bull shit. If a church doesn't want to perform a gay marraige, or kick out gay congregation members-fine. But that shouldn't stop the government from recognizing and performing gay marraiges.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?

Oh yeah, one more thing....

If you argue that gay marraiges should be banned in order to preserve good falily values and moral standards then lets also ban marraiges for child molesters, murderers, rapists, white supremecists, and all the other scum out there who currently have no problems walking down the aisle.

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Originally Posted by Myth1184

Seperation of Church and State wasnt meant to keep the Church our of the State, it was meant to keep the State out of the Church. But Liberals see it as a weapon against all things Christian...

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Really, because I was under the impression that the control of the Pope and catholic church over government policy became a non-too-popular concept with the people of Europe. Democracies of today are not designed to have religious authorities overriding government policy and law, in case you haven't noticed.

Ah but what do I know, I'm just a filthy "liberal".

Marriage was to be between a Man and women...

.. no Adam & Steve

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Originally Posted by dezalb

Marriage was to be between a Man and women...

.. no Adam & Steve

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If 2 people getting married aren't christians, why should they be bound by christian morals?

LOL....now this is why politics are debated!!! This was my initial response:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

The only thing that marriage has to do with government is benifits from social security, etc........if the church doesn't recognize it, why should the fed?

Actually, after living together for 7 years aren't you considered legally married anyways?

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After reading this I have to change my vote on the issue!

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?

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I'm not anti-gay what so ever but the implications on the systems that you mentioned is what concerned me. I forgot about that one factor though...the Justice of the Peace (State) also performs marriages....non church related! Seperation of church and state still holds true!

Thanks Fengzi.....GREAT post!!!!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again.

Forty or so years ago my marraige would have been illegal in some (Southern) States. You see, I'm White and my wife is Chinese. It wasn't until 1967 that the Supreme Court declared laws against mixed-race marraiges unconstitutional. Those in favor of the laws used many of the same arguments that those against gay marraiges use today: "Against God's plan", "Against Nature", etc etc.

Personally, I'm not religious and don't believe in God, so I don't really give a rat's ass if someone's marraige is "against God's plan" . I would be seriously pissed if some Bible thumping fucknut told me I couldn't get married because God didn't mean for Whites and Asians to mix.

For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

So, any religious arguments against gay marraige are simply bull shit. If a church doesn't want to perform a gay marraige, or kick out gay congregation members-fine. But that shouldn't stop the government from recognizing and performing gay marraiges.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?

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Nice post Fengzi..just one thing..some of us do give more than a rats ass about OUR beliefs..its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs but when we stand our ground on our principles we are labeled..well you and others do the same damn thing when we don't agree with issues such as this...I don't really matter into the grand scheme of laws and politics but I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs anymore than I should tell you your beliefs on homosexual rights is bs..because if thats the way of things..then I do say it ..its morally wrong imo and I get sick of being told I have to agree with homosexuality or I am full of hate! Thats one of the major things wrong with this world now..whatever anyone desires they have a right to it..yeah..at what cost? Also I get sick of hearing about the damn South on this issue..lets post some of the most stupid in effect laws that the NE still has on their books for a change..they are there. You call us bible thumping fucknuts..don't sterotype and expect others to show consideration toward you and yours when you don't dish it out. Your post made a convincing point up unto when you made it a personal issue about religion for ALL...I believe in God,Jesus Heaven & Hell but am far from being a fucknut..I could throw some degrading names out about non believers and sexually challenged folks but I don't make it personal..would be nice if hypocrites learned to do the same.

Hi Shelbay, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else who is strongly religious and/or beleives in God. My comment about "bible thumping fucknuts" was merely an expression of how I would feel about someone who commented negatively on my marraige based on their religious beliefs.

You state that "its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs". It is even more ironic that someone who makes this statement would be so quick to shun and label someone else (gays).

I do agree 100% with your comment of "I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs" . I should not impose my beliefs on you or anyone else. It is not my business to do so. The fact that you point this out, however, makes it all the more ironic that you wish to impose your beliefs on others. Is there really any difference from me allowing you to have your own beliefs and you (collectively speaking)allowing gay marraiges to happen? Your beliefs are none of my business and it is none of yours if some gay couple wants to marry. If you disagree with this, it is you who are the hypocrite, not me.

Hasn't religion always influenced government, usually to support the traditions and institutions of the time...?

Where does christianity (in all it's sectarian difference) stand on the following?

slavery

civil rights for women

racial segregation

civil rights for minorities

gay marraige

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Originally Posted by graymatter

Hasn't religion always influenced government, usually to support the traditions and institutions of the time...?

Where does christianity (in all it's sectarian difference) stand on the following?

slavery

civil rights for women

racial segregation

civil rights for minorities

gay marraige

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Awsome Gray,..........I'll give this some thought taday.

Just Chillin.

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

I'd say I've come across two or three people in my life who would qualify as Christians by your definition up there, Jamstigator. Two of these people were practicing Quakers, who do the best job I know of of modeling absolute pacifism. The third is a colleague of mine who is the most serene, secure-in-her-faith person I've ever known. She is completely motivated by kindness and peace in her interactions with others. And I think she qualifies, too.

I want to give this some more thought, but my initial reaction is that I'm not at all certain I agree that an act of self-defense against rape or murder would truly disqualify someone as a Christian.

I think it's important to keep in mind that Christians don't have to be perfect in order to be true Christians. Sure, there are plenty of talk-the-talking hypocrites who can't get anything right and don't even try.

People will never fail to be disappointed if they look to Christ's followers as the models for Christian behavior. The only real model is Christ himself. Thankfully, there's grace for the rest of us!

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

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Your wrong..Jesus knew that we would sin (not perfect) that is the story behind him hanging on the cross between a murderer and a thief (no little sin or big sin..sin is sin) they both had a choice..you can murder..rape..and truly ask for forgiveness and you are still loved and accepted by your make Practicing faith is a good thing but to expect a Christian to be perfect is just an excuse to not even try...really glad God will be the one to Judge me and not mankind..he knows our heart. God knew we would have war time and peace time..for example David wrote in times of war and sacrifice,Solomon wroye in the days of peace and prosperity. Romans 3:23 syas Humans are sinful-All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When we practice self-will as I call it and break our relationship with God..it is practicing rebellion and passive indifference..we all do it..but we all have the God given gift of forgiveness also..we just have to ask and do better in the way we live in our short time here. I replied to your post because you seem ignorant to the judgement calls you are making on true Christians and it just is wrong.

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

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I think that there are many definitions of a "Christain" depending on who you ask. Just as there are many definitions of "Muslim", "Buddhist", etc. I haven't opened a Bible in over 20 years but, as far as I can remember, there is nowhere a statement saying "The definition of a Christian is...." If there was, there wouldn't be so many different forms of Christianity today.

I also don't think that all Christians are hypocrites. Calling all of the followers of Christianity hypocrites is insulting to them. I have met many, many good people who are Christians. They only believe what they have been taught over and over throughout their life. I think it would be better to say that nearly all forms of Christianity(if not all religions), as institutions, are hypocritical.

"Go look for consistency in religion. And speaking of my friends the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Conner came to New York, and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies, and their first labor pains, and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion! I'm sure it would be interesting! Enlightening too. But, in the mean time what they ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the alter boys. Keep your hands to yourself, Father! Ya know? When Jesus said "suffer the little children come unto me", that's not what he was talking about!! -George Carlin

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

Hi Shelbay, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else who is strongly religious and/or beleives in God. My comment about "bible thumping fucknuts" was merely an expression of how I would feel about someone who commented negatively on my marraige based on their religious beliefs.

You state that "its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs". It is even more ironic that someone who makes this statement would be so quick to shun and label someone else (gays).

I do agree 100% with your comment of "I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs" . I should not impose my beliefs on you or anyone else. It is not my business to do so. The fact that you point this out, however, makes it all the more ironic that you wish to impose your beliefs on others. Is there really any difference from me allowing you to have your own beliefs and you (collectively speaking)allowing gay marraiges to happen? Your beliefs are none of my business and it is none of yours if some gay couple wants to marry. If you disagree with this, it is you who are the hypocrite, not me.

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I am very different from most on here..I am also a woman that believes in sex only for procreation and being married at that..I dislike the promiscuity of all people these days that practice self gratification with no thought of mankind..so no I am not a hypocrite..if I am by definition then I will take the label name and deal with it because I do not support or condone homosexuality..that is ME..I would not make the judgement call of telling any human they are worse than me because of their choice but I would also expect not to be held accountable for their actions by being passive and not speaking out loud my beliefs..that is a sin..passive indifference imo.Yes it is my business when homosexuals want to marry..I am a Christian and I believe it is wrong..not because of mans law but Gods..hope that makes sense..I am in a hurry but thought about this thread and issue since voting on it here in alabama last Tuesday..just weird it is an issue here. I apologize if I seem hypocritical to you but I am me..and I understand your validation on your marriage issue..I have posted this before but you may have missed it..The man I am married to now had never been married before but I had..I divorced..we were then told by 30 different Baptist preachers that we would not be married by them because of my previous marriage! We actually married in another State..anyway..what I am saying is that I do understand how religion can be twisted by man for their own practices..and the pain and confusion when attacked by religion..but I saw your post that about the South and I just thought well damn I am a Southerner that has been denied my religious right but I still get attacked being a part of a whole. I did misunderstand part of your post and took it personal..so thanks for the civil and decent response from you..very much appreciate your time in explaining your comments about the fnuts..so how do people meet on a common ground on this issue? A positive one...I have to go..in shock I actually liked your response..not much one can say to honesty like that...thanks again.

Oh God, It just pains me to see what religion has done. I don't know which one to quote and respond to.
I grew up in the church, however I have been in many. The last twenty of which, are concidered Spirit filled by the rest of the genre.
Their are fine believers in all denominations. Jersus prayed "that we would all be one". His final prayer before his death. also, psalm of David spoke prophetically of the sacrafice lamb of God ,"of being all out of joint.

If ya'll don't mind,......religion is a demon.... I am not talking about a true relationship with God. I am talking about "mans" attempt to define and live a "religious life".

I am sadend by the damage that mans views have wrought on the whole of humanity.

Their are fine, fine people in every denomination. and their are religious pricks in all of them....."those who are lead by the spirit, are the sons and daughters of God." An interesting fact: Jesus rebuked Peter and aid "get behind me satan, for you are operating in the thoughts and the intents of man".

The point is, If we are operating other than, the thoughts and intents of the Spirit og God,.........Than we are operating in a demonic mindset.

THIS is where religion is born. This very aspect of man coming up with their, predisposed discriminations,........Then asighning them to God......
Oh, God how Grievous,.....Oh, God... I am so sadened for the projected view of stupid, stupid, religious thought. You all have seen my own show up here..
It also is sadening.

I do find hard since His word is clear that He does not condone this. Since, marriage language uses the bible, since it is addressed at length and mandated by Him, I can see problems with Gays being married in that setting. For civil unions? I question if He desires to make things difficult for them. Our hassels we bring upon ourselves. God loves gays more than the stupid issue.

Fenzi, You made a very good point and I desire say nothing to deminish it.
My personal view is that the Catholics should never have prevented thier own leaders to marry. Jesus healed Peters mother in law. Peter, the apostle that catholics modeled their priest after.

Paul (in the new testi..) said if one desires the oposite sex for not to withold from marriage. These problems manifesting from priest, were not given singleness. For a church leadership home to not procreate???????
Don't get it.

Very, quickly.....
Slavery ~ God saw the plite of the Jews in captivity and released them from it. There are many, many references to freedom, His desire that we all be free.
There were times when He used another nation to enslave them, however, I do not have time to go into what they fell into. If you new what He ment by the people making there children pass thru the fire it would sicken us all.

Civil rights for women ~ kinda falls under slavery dontit. The verses used to argue male domination is very flawed. For one ~ a man in proper position a woman would adore, and follow. the key follow.... not some jerk from behind driveing her along from the rear.
Another confused point, women covering their heads, In Corinthians Paul was instucting them to do so because only the prostitutes didn't cover their heads.
So many misaplications, causing so much confusion.

Race issue? God created man and woman in his image. It requires both to mirror him since both came from Him. Moses' wife was ethiopian. they were the Cushites, all dark skinned, In fact Mirium, his sister, mocked him, she was struck with leprosy, Ironically turns an individual white.

Please excuse legnth and spelling, still at work, have alot to finish, short week.

Blessing

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

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Hello Jamstigator, I guess, you got your view that Christians are passive by the passage, that quotes Jesus saying "If a person strikes you on your check, to turn to him the other to smite also." Jesus would often say shocking statements to make His point. His disciples were busy trying to jostle for position, in what they thought His kingdom was going to be. His kingdom wasn't a physical kingdom, which they all hoped for. Which is why Judas split.

As briefly as possible, His point!!!

Love does not have an opportunity to occur until the feelings associated with love are gone......this isn't an easy one.

Love is a decision,...When do we have to make a decision - to wish well for, and toward another?... But,......When the feelings are gone.......When the feelings are gone... when the intoxication of romance is gone, Isn't it then when we can grow into commitment and deeper love. My wife and I went thru typical hassles, trying to figure out life, clueless lost,... It can be very grating and hard. When I saw my wife's desire for things to just work...........man,....

I spent money on cars and whatever,....... leaving very little for her,.... her patience with me,....I tell ya,.. I have worked the last five years to make up, the best I can. That is what ~ turning of her cheek did to me.

How about some jerk just being an asshole, to find you congenial and unoffended. Your influence in his life?.....also, of what the lord was referring. How about when a close friend - talks trash about you. How about an incorrigible child? Doesn't mean we should just lay down

Self defense is totally appropriate. Someone breaks in, wants to jack with me, my wife, kids? I will put a bullet in their head in Jesus name. Otherwise I would not be fulfilling my role as priest over my home. We must keep the Lords words in context of the point he is making.
Their was and is mandated war. From the very beginning, we were given a mandate, to rule and take dominion. From the very 2nd ch into The Good Book.

I try to let things speak clearly where and as they are. Of coarse coloration, due to my personal view is appropriate to state.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

What has it been for you, Psycho, 2 times through the D experience?

So I'm curious as to whether you're finished with trips to the altar or if romance and hope spring eternal and you're still out there wookin' pa nub?

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I thought you were asking him if he tried Heroin, twice.

Hay Beach!

Why doesn't he just mind his own business bloody pervet wants to know what you do behind close doors to.why not just concentrate on serious important issues instead of the little issues that don't mean anything.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by braddog10

Hay Beach!

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Hey, Braddog, I've encountered two types of religious people in my life, those who are spiritual and those consumed by dogma. The latter are controlling and intolerant. I've never had a problem with spiritual folks, they're easy to get along with (and fun to talk to when high); their world is beyond the matters of Caesar.

My point about where Christianity stands on slavery, segregation, and civil/gay rights is that it still stands in the dark ages. If we'd let Christianity (again, every sectarian voice) determine the question of slavery, they'd still be debating it. Fact is, it took some secular minds to move off the question and say "No, slavery isn't really a good thing for humanity."

My problem with God in government is that it is a God of committee, made up of the same minds that made the arbitrary and anal rules for the senior prom in high school... Peace! ;)

Secular religion encourages the ways and beliefs that were practiced in the days of Rome..there was no "official religion" of Rome..it was in a way about mutual toleration..except when it came to Christians..which was not tolerated because Christians gave allegiance only to Jesus. the Edict of Milan A.D.313 declared that Christian worship would be allowed for the first time...and what happened to Rome? It seems history does repeat itself. I need to look up the stance on this issue involving the scientologist.