those opposing illegal immigration... consider this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

Why don't you see that the way you feel is unrealistic? ...and I don't need a poser like you attempting to explain what my own posts meant to say okay? I am sure you know exactly what my post meant...and wow..out of all these great posts on this thread you want to debate mine? yay...do it right and stop trying to mislead and confuse from my original post (once again)...and why should they not learn english? Yes it is a shameful fact that the illegal parents are having to have their legal kids they have here in America read to them...about medicine...very sad and shameful do you think not? Considering that you are not American and in previous posts of yours you state that Americans are just stupid..I think you need to shut up now and let AMERICANS deal with this..okay..:thumbsup: And to be fair...they are not playing fair...I don't think any of the ones I have met and interacted with had any kind of immunization either..very unsafe for this Country.

---

When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME, this statement is true by your assumptions:
1. i am American [born and raised]
2. i did state "dumbass Americans like you" to a specific person, saying that his mentality is shared upon others and i would classify Americans like that the way i described above (to someone so condemning of not reading posts correctly, a stupid mistake by you)
3. you arent the only special one (cry if you want :( ), i responded to numerous ppl in this thread, but don't expect me to waste time on those with one liners... you obviously have a thoughtout opinion of this subject of MY thread, am i not allowed to debate it?
4. please explain how my view is unrealistic, when i backed it with facts along with history (which is what we base our policies on), while you continue to degrade it and post no actual counterpoints to any of my specific sentences.
later ;)

ooooh another FLAME war!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grinthenbearit

ooooh another FLAME war!!!!!

---

actually, no

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xblackdogx

When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME, this statement is true by your assumptions:
1. i am American [born and raised]
2. i did state "dumbass Americans like you" to a specific person, saying that his mentality is shared upon others and i would classify Americans like that the way i described above (to someone so condemning of not reading posts correctly, a stupid mistake by you)
3. you arent the only special one (cry if you want :( ), i responded to numerous ppl in this thread, but don't expect me to waste time on those with one liners... you obviously have a thoughtout opinion of this subject of MY thread, am i not allowed to debate it?
4. please explain how my view is unrealistic, when i backed it with facts along with history (which is what we base our policies on), while you continue to degrade it and post no actual counterpoints to any of my specific sentences.
later ;)

---

How do you expect to debate when you don't get the FACT that opinions,viewpoints etc...are neither right or wrong..when you blasted my original post by telling me I am wrong for my viewpoint (that I still stand by) then you have to assume you'll get that same mentality right back..and IF you are an American..show some pride and stop saying we are all stupid americans because of differing opinions. Illegal aliens have the right to march and protest what they deem a threat to their freedom..oh please..they need to start paying taxes...put some of their earnings back into the country they chose to enter illegally..be immunized..have documentation..(lets not forget what Castro did) and be required to speak english. This is america...we speak english as our primary language...why should we have to change our language for the hispanic culture..once again...this is America..not Mexico. Why would you say I am not the only special one..is that how you view me? Special? If you don't like my posts on YOUR thread..I am sure it being YOUR thread you know what to do where I can't post on YOUR thread anymore...if you want to debate..do it without the insinuations that differing opinions are wrong or unrealistic..its not nice being told how you feel is wrong is it? Now..once again..it is shameful that two adults have to be told how to give medication by their young son...not only is it shameful but it is also dangerous..this couple had 3 children..one on the way very soon it looked like..and they can't read intructions on a medicine bottle?! Which was just one example of where miscommunication can affect more than one person..how can you honestly condone them not learning english? What really irritated me about you is saying..if I don't like it move?? I don't think so..and that mentality makes no sense coming from an American supposedly born and raised in the good old U.S.A. if they don't like it here..take their butts back where THEY come from is my viewpoint on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

How do you expect to debate when you don't get the FACT that opinions,viewpoints etc...are neither right or wrong..when you blasted my original post by telling me I am wrong for my viewpoint (that I still stand by) then you have to assume you'll get that same mentality right back..and IF you are an American..show some pride and stop saying we are all stupid americans because of differing opinions. Illegal aliens have the right to march and protest what they deem a threat to their freedom..oh please..they need to start paying taxes...put some of their earnings back into the country they chose to enter illegally..be immunized..have documentation..(lets not forget what Castro did) and be required to speak english. This is america...we speak english as our primary language...why should we have to change our language for the hispanic culture..once again...this is America..not Mexico. Why would you say I am not the only special one..is that how you view me? Special? If you don't like my posts on YOUR thread..I am sure it being YOUR thread you know what to do where I can't post on YOUR thread anymore...if you want to debate..do it without the insinuations that differing opinions are wrong or unrealistic..its not nice being told how you feel is wrong is it? Now..once again..it is shameful that two adults have to be told how to give medication by their young son...not only is it shameful but it is also dangerous..this couple had 3 children..one on the way very soon it looked like..and they can't read intructions on a medicine bottle?! Which was just one example of where miscommunication can affect more than one person..how can you honestly condone them not learning english? What really irritated me about you is saying..if I don't like it move?? I don't think so..and that mentality makes no sense coming from an American supposedly born and raised in the good old U.S.A. if they don't like it here..take their butts back where THEY come from is my viewpoint on that.

---

1. when did tell you that you were wrong for a viewpoint? please re-read my first post directed towards you
2. how do you continue to misuse what i said about the dumb Americans? twisting around words on your part, much like Republicans.
3. and it was MY OPINION that "you should move" b/c i think it is an unrealistic expectation of making immigrants learn English. and i stand by what i said before that i do agree that they should learn it, but to FORCE it is unfair.
4. if you took enough time to check my previous posts, why don't you find where i claim i'm from (couple of weeks ago) if you don't believe me
5. and the word "special" was used sarcastically. essentially being derived from you saying your post is the only one i am contending when that is indeed untrue

consider this, illegal aliens are convicted criminals from south of the U.S. border.

They can't get a job worth $5/hour so they risk their lives by breaking more laws to come up to the USA.

The US doesn't need lawless tax dodging aliens......especially with all the deficit and terrorist problems we already have from other third world countries.

government won't even maintain proper sewers..is this a cultural thing??? im confused

I know mexico is only a 3rd or 2nd world country but come on....Everytime I've been to mexico the streets reeked of human waste....


what then when mexicans are no longer the USA minority and are in public office?

I know I wont stick around for that.....no way...canada europe...make way for me

smell ya later
Instead of the riot, walk outs bulls*itting on the web why don't they just make the area a better place to live?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinthenbearit

consider this, illegal aliens are convicted criminals from south of the U.S. border.

They can't get a job worth $5/hour so they risk their lives by breaking more laws to come up to the USA.

The US doesn't need lawless tax dodging aliens......especially with all the deficit and terrorist problems we already have from other third world countries.

I know mexico is only a 3rd or 2nd world country but come on....Everytime I've been to mexico the streets reeked of human waste....


what then when mexicans are no longer the USA minority and are in public office?

I know I wont stick around for that.....no way...canada europe...make way for me

smell ya later
Instead of the riot, walk outs bulls*itting on the web why don't they just make the area a better place to live?

---

how are they convicted criminals... the law they break by coming across the border is a misdeameanor:thumbsup:

"Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc."
they aren't as tax dodging as many may think

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xblackdogx

1. when did tell you that you were wrong for a viewpoint? please re-read my first post directed towards you
2. how do you continue to misuse what i said about the dumb Americans? twisting around words on your part, much like Republicans.
3. and it was MY OPINION that "you should move" b/c i think it is an unrealistic expectation of making immigrants learn English. and i stand by what i said before that i do agree that they should learn it, but to FORCE it is unfair.
4. if you took enough time to check my previous posts, why don't you find where i claim i'm from (couple of weeks ago) if you don't believe me
5. and the word "special" was used sarcastically. essentially being derived from you saying your post is the only one i am contending when that is indeed untrue

---

I think your the one that needs to read YOUR thread again..and your own posts. Also why make a civil debate into a dem/rep issue? Not sure which label i should be given on that one considering politics is not my forte...I of course have my opinion on certain issues..but I am not really that up on republican or democrat...I live by what I feel is right..not what the Government tells me no matter which party is in power at any given time....and they should be FORCED to learn english..how else can they contribute in a positive,legal manner without the basic skill of reading what doseage of medicine to give their own children? Looks like they are determined to FORCE their ways on true Americans and the legals here than just doing what they need to do in the first place....your good at asking the same questions and misleading with opinions that you call facts when in truth are not facts but a one sided view from you...and once again...they need to master the basics of english language..what is the problem with them learning? And if they refuse..then FORCE them back where they come from....they forced their way in this country so you shouldn't be offended when I say they should be required to learn english...this is the U.S.A....not Mexico..english is OUR primary language..learn it..know it...live it!:thumbsup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages
look through the list and see how many countries have 2-20+ OFFICIAL languages. i'm not even saying spanish should be an official language, all i am saying is that the US shouldn't force it.
and that is the only real reply i will give you... i concluded that you are dillusional or young

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelbay

they need to master the basics of english language..what is the problem with them learning? And if they refuse..then FORCE them back where they come from....they forced their way in this country so you shouldn't be offended when I say they should be required to learn english...this is the U.S.A....not Mexico..english is OUR primary language..learn it..know it...live it!:thumbsup:

---

Hell yes!!!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xblackdogx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages
look through the list and see how many countries have 2-20+ OFFICIAL languages. i'm not even saying spanish should be an official language, all i am saying is that the US shouldn't force it.
and that is the only real reply i will give you... i concluded that you are dillusional or young

---

I don't have to look through your list..I live right here where everyday life experiences show what is needed..they need to learn english! And I still say english should be required to pass citizenship here...heck..even terrorists are smart enough to learn the fundamentals..and they hate us..so if you love your new country..embrace its language and diverse cultures....don't expect me to live like I am in your country instead of vice versa...and I made my conclusion on you a few threads ago when you posted about stupid Americans..its tiresome seeing that these days..have some pride. Do you speak spanish? If not..learn it! Might shock you to know what is really being said to you..haha..really disappointed with your conclusion though...you were presenting your viewpoint very well..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xblackdogx

how are they convicted criminals... the law they break by coming across the border is a misdeameanor:thumbsup:

"Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc."
they aren't as tax dodging as many may think

---

as per dictionary.com
4 entries found for convict.
con·vict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-vkt)
v. con·vict·ed, con·vict·ing, con·victs
v. tr.

1. Law. To find or prove (someone) guilty of an offense or crime, especially by the verdict of a court: The jury convicted the defendant of manslaughter.
2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.
3. To make aware of one's sinfulness or guilt.


v. intr.

To return a verdict of guilty in a court: â??We need jurors... who will not convict merely because they are suspiciousâ?� (Scott Turow).


n. Law (knvkt)

1. A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.
2. A person serving a sentence of imprisonment.


adj. Archaic

Found guilty; convicted.

ba ba bull sh...................
Nowhere does it say a conviction has to be a felony

I wanna go to canada where they actually have a budget excess, as opposed to the USA deficit caused largely by the huge majority of illegal aliens impose on the USA by leeching free medical care and not paying income taxes let alone contributing to health plan costs.

phewwey!!!!!!!!!!!!

why can't mexico give free health coverage????

I figure it is to their benefit to just drop the bill on the USA deficit!
smell ya l8tr!

mexico is really shitting all over us

I don't understand the smell of cities south of the USA border. Why does it always reek.....is it a cultual thing .....going potty in gutter?

If you know why it stinks so bad down there please explain?

shelbay- just one more thing b/c you make it seem like i hate Americans

what you are saying about me "hating" my own people is taken out of context.
2. i also am fluent in spanish, you just bring irrelevant stuff in and it doesnt apply :)... like you did with saying im not American

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinthenbearit

as per dictionary.com
4 entries found for convict.
con·vict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-vkt)
v. con·vict·ed, con·vict·ing, con·victs
v. tr.

1. Law. To find or prove (someone) guilty of an offense or crime, especially by the verdict of a court: The jury convicted the defendant of manslaughter.
2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.
3. To make aware of one's sinfulness or guilt.


v. intr.

To return a verdict of guilty in a court: â??We need jurors... who will not convict merely because they are suspiciousâ?� (Scott Turow).


n. Law (knvkt)

1. A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.
2. A person serving a sentence of imprisonment.


adj. Archaic

Found guilty; convicted.

ba ba bull sh...................
Nowhere does it say a conviction has to be a felony

I wanna go to canada where they actually have a budget excess, as opposed to the USA deficit caused largely by the huge majority of illegal aliens impose on the USA by leeching free medical care and not paying income taxes let alone contributing to health plan costs.

phewwey!!!!!!!!!!!!

why can't mexico give free health coverage????

I figure it is to their benefit to just drop the bill on the USA deficit!
smell ya l8tr!

---

convicted implies that their was a trial...
you can use criminal [as an adjective] for the law they are breaking, but that would be like saying your a criminal for speeding [misdemeanor].
kind of silly don't you think?
:dance:

I think that the laws shouldnt stay the same but i am not for completely opposing illegal immigration. If youve even seen pictures of REAL mexico you know why they are here. Mexico is a living shithole that you couldnt blame someone for wanting to leave and come here, illegal or not. I highly doubt it will pass but i havent been following up on it. If it does well there are going to be alot of pissed of mexicans, sounds like it might cause more trouble than its worth. Im not sure what the requirements are for citizenship here but im sure it isnt anything too outstanding. Anyone know what they are? I think that if they want to stay they should become a real citizen, otherwise GTFO:)

xdog..If your American...some of your posts are contradictory to that..you might be..but your word terminology says different..among other things. Since you seem familiar with the hispanic cause...why is it that they come here illegally..protest while waving Mexicos Flag...but did not rally like this in Mexico for their "rights"? Just curious..you do have an opinion on that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

xdog..If your American...some of your posts are contradictory to that..you might be..but your word terminology says different..among other things. Since you seem familiar with the hispanic cause...why is it that they come here illegally..protest while waving Mexicos Flag...but did not rally like this in Mexico for their "rights"? Just curious..you do have an opinion on that?

---

seriously can you find what posts are contradictory to me being American?

i do think that more should be done, like they should have protested in their native land, but i think it needs to be done here in America also [by Americans im saying, b/c we are in a terrible situation b/c of our gov't too].

The reason they feel like they should do it here is b/c our government and principles are very closely related to our founding ideology, which are basic rights for all, and now that they have been here and working here for the gov't to simply classify them as felons is unfair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benagain

what about all the people trying to get here the right way? Illeagles are making it harder and harder every day. Find someone who has or is trying to come over the right way. I don't care if they're mexican or not, they're pissed off at the illegals. It can takes years anymore to get to live here, but pedro can jump a fence and work just about anywhere. It's just not fair. I don't care one way or the other as to where your from. Our country is made up of people who wanted a way of of a crappy life. I'm happy for anyone who gets to come over, but don't screw other honest people out of a chance to get a decent job.

---

I agree with benagain here because I have experience in this area. No, not me, I was born and raised here. But my wife is from China. I lived in China for a while and we met and were married there. When we decided to move back to the U.S. we did it the right, legal, way and I can tell you it was an absolute nightmare. We were forced to spend 6 months apart, on two occaisions, and treated like animals by the INS. Everybody thinks that being married to an American is an instant ticket in but that just isn't the case. It may be a bit faster but that's a relative term when dealing with the U.S. Gov't. So yeah, we do get pretty pissed off at people who come here illegally and want a free ride.

That being said, xblackdogx is right. Illegals do a lot of the shit jobs that nobody else wants to do and they do them for less than anyone here, native or legal immigrant, would do it for. If we were to suddenly get rid of all illegals the effect on our economy would be devastating. Two main reasons:

1. As has already been pointed out, if you sudennly incresae the wages of workers in a given industry, the prices of the goods produced by those industries will have a corresponing increase. This is a no brainer. Say, for example, a farmer pays illegals $2 and hr to pick strawberries and he sells those strawberries for $2.50 lb. If he has to start paying someone $6 an hr he'll no longer be able to sell them for $2.50 a lb. Obviously nything produced by the agricultural industries would face a massive blow as would all other services produced by "unskilled labor" .

2. Second would be the effect on inflation. This is something that most people don't even consider but, in all reality, has much more severe consequences. As somebody else already pointed out, illegals send billions back to Mexico every year. Now, imagine we have no illegals and the money stays in our economy. That's billions more $'s floating around. Combine that with the fact that higher wages are being paid to "legals" and you now have tens of billions more floating aound the economy. The most basic economic law is that prices are based on supply and demand. More money in the economy means more demand so the prices go up. Now, even products that previously were not touched by illegals see their prices soaring. To combat this the Fed would increase interest rates. etc. etc. Bad news any way you look at it.

What is needed is some kind of migrant worker program. Let the workers come in legally, for a specified, and definitely temporary, period of time. Do not grant them all the rights of U.S.. citizens. Tax them at a drastically lowered rate (this would help employers as well since they also pay taxes fr their workers) and set a lower minimum wage for them. It can't be done without some impact to our economy but certainly the impact can be minimilized.

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout..I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"..its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers....make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board. Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xblackdogx

seriously can you find what posts are contradictory to me being American?

i do think that more should be done, like they should have protested in their native land, but i think it needs to be done here in America also [by Americans im saying, b/c we are in a terrible situation b/c of our gov't too].

The reason they feel like they should do it here is b/c our government and principles are very closely related to our founding ideology, which are basic rights for all, and now that they have been here and working here for the gov't to simply classify them as felons is unfair.

---

To come to America illegally is what is unfair....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelbay

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout..

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Probably but it would take years, possibly decades, for things to balance themselves out. And, it would get a lot worse before it got better. This isn't based on some theroy, it's based on economic pricinples. Principles which are about as reliable as 2+2=4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"...

---

By "job" I mean the whole picture. Picking strawberries for $2 and hr is an entirely different job from picking strawberries for $10 an hr.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelbay

its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers...

---

Agreed, but sadly it has become the norm and is completeky ingrained into the system. Any drastic change in the staus quo will have serious short and mid-term consequences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelbay

make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board.

---

I definitely agree here, especially on the learning English part. When I lived in China I had to speak Chinese. Period! Almost nobody over there speaks English and if I wanted to use a particular servive I didn't have a choice of languages. If I could do it so can anyone coming here.

It's not just illegals though. I am amazed at how many legal, even highly educated, immigrants here can't, or can barely, speak English. This is one of my wife's biggest pet peeves. Despite the fact that she didn't step foot into this country until she was 27, she speaks English, with no accent, at a level that is considerably better than most native speakers. Ok, she is a highly educated linguist so she does have a bit of an advantage but still.... She becomes absolutely infuriated when she has to speak in Chinese to, or translate for, the other educated software engineers she works with. Even I have had many instances where it has been easier for me to communicate in Chinese, instead of English, with other professional here in the Silicon Valley. It's simply ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelbay

Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us".

---

I don't doubt it. It's all in the numbers. California is something like 30% or more Hispanic. Alabama is less than 2%. There's definietly going to be more of a sense of Hispanic community here. Plus, if I was a member of a <2% minority in an area where good 'ol boys in white robes still roamed I would't make much of a fuss either.;)

The good old boys here don't wear white robes...they wear uniforms for the majority..also..if you come to Alabama you would see that the KKK no longer is here,not that we know of anyway..and if they are..I doubt very seriously they would announce it considering that Alabama is very diverse in heritage..take a look at Birmingham,Montgomery,Selma,Mobile...and there is your power in this State..and its NOT the white heritage.:thumbsup: And the Hispanics here are no where in #'s with CA and TX but the ones that are here show American pride..not another country that many illegals claim oppressed them(as in Mexico):) They show respect toward others and we may be a minority but our community continues to move forward..together..we really do...and telling the illegals that its okay to continue working as they are just because they are illegal is not a good thing..but there are ways to change things without abusing others rights...they need to march on Washington considering that immigration is fixable but it will never happen because the Government (you know the real power..) and big money like to use immigrants as a platform but really have no intention of "fixing" it...so the truth should be taught and applied so that more than marching can be done to make them legal....and that is going to be impossible when they don't even speak the same language as the big boys..and those are in Washington..not the South!:thumbsup:

Sorry about the double post..but I didn't edit in time. I wanted to add that I appreciate you sharing about your wifes frustrations in translating sometimes...that is why I originally posted on this thread...and when I said forced to learn it..some of them are "set in their ways" and have had younger members of the family have to do the teaching..they force them to listen and respond in english. Important information can be lost in translation..sort of like playing the "gossip" game..you take like ten people,sit them in chairs,whisper something in the first ones ear...they repeat in to the next one..and by the time it gets repeated at the end of the line..its nothing like what was originally said.

any of the clauses in the definition for a convict apply.....

illegal aliens.....
1. don't pay income tax
2. don't pay medicare
3. don't pay medical insurance
4. use tax funded roads, sidewalks, fire departments ect ect ect ect ect
5. use free medical care at free clinics at tax PAYER expense


1+2+3+4+5 = illegal aliens are a drain on the standard of living of legal residents living in the USA, becuse less tax money can go to pay gov't employees and also existing legal residents must be overtaxed to compensate

Not to mention our evergrowing deficit cannot possibly be getting much help from aliens either

This is a long thread with a lot of fighting. That's what I think.

I think its a good thread..at least no one has used the c word...

well i wouldnt care if they were coming over here and staying here as citizens, but instead there getting jobs here making money and taking it back to mexico and living like kings......so stop fucking america in the ass mexico.

im a chicano and i can understand both sides

one thing i really agree with is that whoever is here no matter from where you came please please learn english.

i speak spanish but sometimes when im sober i pretend to only speak english
the people who only speak spanish get pissed off like its your fault you cant understand.if i went to mexico and tried toget by in english i would be taken advantage of.

i cant wait to see what happens with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinthenbearit

any of the clauses in the definition for a convict apply.....

illegal aliens.....
1. don't pay income tax
2. don't pay medicare
3. don't pay medical insurance
4. use tax funded roads, sidewalks, fire departments ect ect ect ect ect
5. use free medical care at free clinics at tax PAYER expense


1+2+3+4+5 = illegal aliens are a drain on the standard of living of legal residents living in the USA, becuse less tax money can go to pay gov't employees and also existing legal residents must be overtaxed to compensate

Not to mention our evergrowing deficit cannot possibly be getting much help from aliens either

---

Actually the definition of a convict is "one who has been convicted". So until a person has been caught for a crime, tried, and found guilty they can not be a convict. Therefore only a small percentage of illegals could be considerd a convict.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fengzi

Actually the definition of a convict is "one who has been convicted". So until a person has been caught for a crime, tried, and found guilty they can not be a convict. Therefore only a small percentage of illegals could be considerd a convict.

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2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.

No green card, no US I.D. or cannot even prove any other way to be a legal resident equals open and shut case to anybody with an intellect "worth a bowl of beans".

Do you not think though that with the good comes the bad? That is also something I stay curious about..how many were convicted of violent crimes in Mexico and then "sent" here? Not trying to argue but haven't seen much on that subject....just the results after one of them get in trouble here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

Do you not think though that with the good comes the bad? That is also something I stay curious about..how many were convicted of violent crimes in Mexico and then "sent" here? Not trying to argue but haven't seen much on that subject....just the results after one of them get in trouble here.

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That happened with Cuba...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C1A961948260

Yep, the Mariel boatlift. I was living in Florida at the time and can remeber this was a huge deal down there.

Wasn't Scarface supposed to be one of the Mariel baot people??

I wouldn't doubt there are cases of this happening but I would think it would be a small percentage of those coming across. There's a Home Depot near where I work and I drive by a bunch of these guys (assumed illegals) every day. Yes, they may be here illegally but they are some of the hardest working people you will ever see. Apart from the fact that they entered illegally I would doubt any have committed any other crime in their life.

Of course they work hard..and of course the majority is cash and being sent back to Mexico..and the majority I have spoken with (not assumed but very illegal) only come here to work and support others back home. There are many more illegals than legal? Not really sure on that..just speaking from experience of my interaction with them..which by the way is mainly battered women that are here illegally with american born children and feel they have to stay where they are just because they are illegal...so no I don't see this from just one "view"..I just think they should be able to become true Americans because no matter how it is prettied up...they came here breaking the law..and it will continue to hold them back from greater things than just picking fruit or putting a roof on a house..which I mean no disrespect toward manual labor..but there are others just like any heritage that have gifted people that their gifts are being wasted because of one thing..they are illegal..and speak barely comprehensible english. The big "debate" here today was that poor uneducated black men are losing out because they say they are forced to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs...I do look forward to your posts on this now..oh..and yes scarface was based on that immigration..wasn't sure so I just had to look it up.

uneducated black men have to much pride to get dirty and work hard all day every day.

it seems that they would rather slang dope,pimp ho's or just hook up with
a fat ugly girl that will take care of her nigga

lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhino44

lmao

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friendowl, always hitting the nail on the head in some cases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by friendowl

uneducated black men have to much pride to get dirty and work hard all day every day.

it seems that they would rather slang dope,pimp ho's or just hook up with
a fat ugly girl that will take care of her nigga

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All the uneducated black men, I know, are working pretty hard, and I don't know how much education it takes to become a police officer, I know you don't need a college degree.

An educated black man is my herbal connection.