My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!

i don't believe in a god. i think of it from logics. god is everywhere, god is everything.. correct? then wouldn't he of left proof of his existance in one way or another, at some point in the infinite of his 'lifetime'? no you say? why's that? oh right.. becasue he is beyond this plane of existance, he is beyond the comprehension level a mortal has... so then, how did the messangers get the messages from him? if he is totally beyond our comprehension level, how could anyone possibly comprehend his messages? with all that said, how do you know that these 'messangers' weren't just lunatics... think about it, today if you say you talk to god and get messages from him, what is everyone's first response? "that mother fucker is crazy."

christians have excuses for everything, but they don't have an excuse for this.. if god is perfect, and everything is his will, and everything is him, and he is everything, why do you have to come up with so many excuses? this is a lie thousands of years in the making.. nothing more... and as time goes on and on, it's unraveling faster and faster, i survive on this knowledge, some day, everything will come crashing down, some day it will either be proved it was a lie, or someday there will just be too many holes to fill...

another question i have, if god has his will, and it will not be changed, not for mortal, not for anything, why pray? christianity = contradiction.

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Originally Posted by ADaisyChain

wow, i guess i never saw it that way. you truly are a better man then i junkyard.

btw did you see the latest degrassi?

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Certainly not better, lol! (Was that a joke?) I think my thought process 'may' be a little different than most? Honestly, we're all in this life together...we may as well make the best of it...

You know, I look back at memorable moments, and I can't help but think about Rodney King. He was beat down unjustly by the po po, and people stood up, and started riots, and did violent acts because the cops involved got off the hook.

I'll never forget what Rodeny King says on camara. He was a stand up guy, and his character is an amazing testimony, imo.

He says:

"Can't we all just get along"? (Priceless)

Btw, is degrassi a show? If so, I've not seen it...

It's Canadian, correct?

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Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho

i don't believe in a god. i think of it from logics. god is everywhere, god is everything.. correct? then wouldn't he of left proof of his existance in one way or another, at some point in the infinite of his 'lifetime'? no you say? why's that? oh right.. becasue he is beyond this plane of existance, he is beyond the comprehension level a mortal has... so then, how did the messangers get the messages from him? if he is totally beyond our comprehension level, how could anyone possibly comprehend his messages? with all that said, how do you know that these 'messangers' weren't just lunatics... think about it, today if you say you talk to god and get messages from him, what is everyone's first response? "that mother fucker is crazy."

christians have excuses for everything, but they don't have an excuse for this.. if god is perfect, and everything is his will, and everything is him, and he is everything, why do you have to come up with so many excuses? this is a lie thousands of years in the making.. nothing more... and as time goes on and on, it's unraveling faster and faster, i survive on this knowledge, some day, everything will come crashing down, some day it will either be proved it was a lie, or someday there will just be too many holes to fill...

another question i have, if god has his will, and it will not be changed, not for mortal, not for anything, why pray? christianity = contradiction.

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Many people don't believe in God. You see, there is this stirring question that plagues many:

"Who made who"?

We may never know, man. I think it is futile to even attmpt to prove Gods existence, and vice versa. He very well may not exist at all, but we do have life, the earth, the air, the waters, etc...

We 'ARE' the dominant species on this planet, and we are in control of the future of mankind, as well as what many call 'creation'. (We are in effect Kings)

It's is just a matter of putting two and two together, man...

Many Atheist agree with my views. (Many don't) Although, they deny the existence of God, which in my mind, doesn't matter in the least, when you honor what we have...Wether it was given by God, or wether it is a product of the 'big bang'...

Peace,

â??Edenâ??

Creations wonder birthed
of a virginal mass
within this darkened void
life was born.

Mother earth
is but the hand of God
creating a paradise
even unto this day...

Existing to nurture mankind

The earth, the waters
the air, and life.
Dominion granted
over all these things.

A king of sorts
weâ??re living
within this
mighty realm...

Yes, in Eden we surly dwell.

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Originally Posted by robert42

No one can ever tell someone else their belief is wrong or not true

Believe in what u wanna believe in the same way u Do what u think is right

Wether it be rastarafism, catholic or buddhist ur decision is yours.

And whats to say u cant believe in more than one god?

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This is false, and it is this way of thinking that will lead to the end of civilization.

Certain beliefs are blatantly wrong, no matter how you look at them. For me, I like to point out that all religious beliefs are pretty much wrong.

Some muslims think that if they blow themselves and kill as many "enemies" as possible, they will go straight to heaven and enjoy some goodies. Now, by following the philosophy that "every belief has its own validity," how are we supposed to stop people from blowing themselves up in the name of Allah? Also, you'll never see someone blowing themselves up in the name of Krishna or Zoroaster. This leads to my point, that not only is it OK to tell muslims they're wrong to think that blowing up people is good, but that we have an OBLIGATION to do so.

Some beliefs are wrong, others are right. It is utopian to think that all beliefs are right. If I believed the sky was pink, I'm sure all of you would rush to point out that no, it's not pink, it's blue. Well, I like to tell people, especially Christians, Jews and Muslims, that their beliefs are wrong, because they are, no matter how you turn them around. This is called REALISM. You don't need religion to tell you that murder is wrong (in fact most say that it's ok under certain circumstances...) or that stealing is wrong, these are statements that are simply TRUE. Just as you can have physical facts that are always true, i.e. the sky is blue, there is no reason that you cannot have ethical facts that are always true, i.e. killing people is wrong.

In the end, there is simply no reason for Religion to exist anymore. This does not mean that people can't be spiritual, because there are still many aspects of our lives and bodies that are mysterious... but there's nothing supernatural or metaphysical about them.

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Many people don't believe in God. You see, there is this stirring question that plagues many:

"Who made who"?

We may never know, man. I think it is futile to even attmpt to prove Gods existence, and vice versa. He very well may not exist at all, but we do have life, the earth, the air, the waters, etc...

We 'ARE' the dominant species on this planet, and we are in control of the future of mankind, as well as what many call 'creation'. (We are in effect Kings)

It's is just a matter of putting two and two together, man...

Many Atheist agree with my views. (Many don't) Although, they deny the existence of God, which in my mind, doesn't matter in the least, when you honor what we have...Wether it was given by God, or wether it is a product of the 'big bang'...

Peace,

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JunkYard, we were not made in God's image, God was made in OUR image.... That is another Truth.

^^Prove it my friend, and I will fully submit to this particular concept of 'truth'^^

Personally, I don't think it matters at all...

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

^^Prove it my friend, and I will fully submit to this particular concept of 'truth'^^

Personally, I don't think it matters at all...

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But it does matter... because a lot of believers kill believers of other faiths because they think that's what their god wants, when in reality it's not what God wants, it's what THEY want.

And the proof is simple: humans wrote the Bible, not God. Humans created Religion, not God. Humans created laws and ethics, not God. Humans created Good and Evil, not God.

We are, in fact, God. We give him all the attributes we see in ourselves. Not only that, we made God into an especially fickle, angry, and most importantly jealous human.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

But it does matter... because a lot of believers kill believers of other faiths because they think that's what their god wants, when in reality it's not what God wants, it's what THEY want.

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Agreed, but this has more to do with ones perception of what God wants from his followers...not what he's made of, or what we're made of, if in his image. It doesn't matter in the sense this idea could go either way w/o ever knowing the 'truth' about wether we created God, or wether he created us.

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And the proof is simple: humans wrote the Bible, not God. Humans created Religion, not God. Humans created laws and ethics, not God. Humans created Good and Evil, not God.

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This actually 'proves' nothing, man, lol! The fact is that we don't know if God exists at all, and if he does exist, we don't know if he created us in his image or not. It is not proven, nor can it be proven. We can only have personal thoughts, and/or convictions about the actual reality of of it all.

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We are, in fact, God. We give him all the attributes we see in ourselves. Not only that, we made God into an especially fickle, angry, and most importantly jealous human.

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I understand that this is your take on it, but many will disagree with your sentiments. Niether view can be 'proven' right, or wrong, so your truth falls short of being an actual 'truth'.

Not to be a smart ass, but I thought you claimed to be a realist . . . A 'critical' thinker? I'm afraid you may be letting your counterparts down by claiming you 'know' the truth about God, when in reality, all you 'know' is your personal views on the matter...

Actually, I was trying to be a 'smart ass', lol!

Sorry bro, It was uncalled for...

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Actually, I was trying to be a 'smart ass', lol!

Sorry bro, It was uncalled for...

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No worries, I know what you mean... I just get carried away sometimes. It's just that to me, the matter is crystal clear, and I don't think there's any turning back for me... :D

I really cannot see how people, billions actually, can believe in things that amount to nothing more than fairy tales, in things that have caused more misery, pain and hunger than anything else.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

No worries, I know what you mean... I just get carried away sometimes. It's just that to me, the matter is crystal clear, and I don't think there's any turning back for me... :D

I really cannot see how people, billions actually, can believe in things that amount to nothing more than fairy tales, in things that have caused more misery, pain and hunger than anything else.

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I get carried away sometimes, too. Actually, more often than not, lol! I have a clear view, also, only I do believe that something bigger than ourselves exists. Some call this thing God, and some call it a 'higher power', I call it God for sake of making my point.

It's true that religion has caused much suffering, misery, pain, etc... But, it has done some good, also. I actually pick and choose what I take from the Bible. Alot of it is just too far out there for me to embrace. Things like blood sacrifice, the wars, the anger, and all the intolerance, and not to even mention the guilt produced by the concept of 'sin'.

I once believed that the Bible was the tree of knowledge (good and evil) haha! I put it down, and wouldn't dare pick it up. Then I realized that there really is no absolute right and wrong, and that everything we experience is purely subjective. I'd say that most know what is bennificial to them, and to humanity. We don't need a book to tell us how to live, but it can help if you aproach it objectively, and ignore the dark aspects within the texts.

I'm not a Christian, nor do I view myself as an overly religious person. I can see wisdom in Jesus' walk, and I respect that because he simply valued love, and responsibility. I think it is through love, and through responsibility, that mankind will/can survive ourselves. I disagree with the Christian version of salvation...it seems to take responsibility out of the hands of man, and put it solely on thier God, and Jesus. They seem to not appreciate what they have, or what was given to them to take care of...Creation! I know it is difficult to appreciate such a world at times, but it's all we got, man. I think we should make the best of it, and strive to make it better for future generations.

I really have no convicted views as to what happens after death, but if I were God, I'd send every damn one of us back to be reborn in the world we leave behind...Just seems appropriate! We have a potential paradise in our hands, or a potential hell, lol! It's up to mankind to decide which is better to pursue....

We are the kings of this kingdom!

I Call this earth: "Eden". :D

Sorry for the length, man. I highly respect the Atheist pov. You guys seem to value more worthy endeavors than do many Christians, and religious folk.

Later,

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

I think it is through love, and through responsibility, that mankind will/can survive ourselves. I disagree with the Christian version of salvation...it seems to take responsibility out of the hands of man, and put it solely on thier God, and Jesus. They seem to not appreciate what they have, or what was given to them to take care of...Creation! I know it is difficult to appreciate such a world at times, but it's all we got, man. I think we should make the best of it, and strive to make it better for future generations.

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That is great sentiment, one that believers and atheists should share and agree upon. For too long the emphasis in our lives has been the Next World, while This World was considered evil, tainted, and whatnot. This view was very popular in the Middle Ages because a lot of people did indeed live in misery, and the belief in a better world upon death comforted them.

But this belief is out-dated, IMHO. We can make This World a better place, we have the technology and the know-how, all we need is the will. But as long people worry more about what happens to their own soul after they die and ignore that billions of people that will live on long afterwards, nothing will happen, status quo.

To me, death is the end of existence, and the only reckoning that might happen is not with God, but with ourselves. We don't need God to judge us, I think 99% of people know if they led a good life, or a bad one. Is there something in us that is reborn into another body? I wouldn't think so, but we can't rule it out completely.

Atheism does not mean a lack of spirituality, it just means we don't don't believe in God, because he is simply not there, he's a fabrication. There certainly is more to life than we can see and touch, but it is certainly not the Christian version, which has been continually disproved since the 1600s. No, I don't think either that Science can provide all the answers, but when it come to choosing to believe a priest, whose knowledge only comes the Bible, or a scientist, who has dedicated his/her entire life to study one small aspect of the universe, I'll choose the scientist.

I was gonna ask if you dug it up, or saw it in the link in the "Christianity" Thread, haha!

No worries...I still feel the same, though. (For the most part)

:smokin:

It's funny, but my mother started in on me again...not...5 minutes ago, lol! She agrees with many of my views, only she is determined to convert me to her particular brand of Christianity.

Why do they do this?

I'm baffled!

[quote=JunkYard]

Anyone care to help out what my mother calls a "lost soul"?

QUOTE]

You are but an enlightened soul. Not because you arenâ??t Christian but because you think for your self.

Oh and if you want to accept Christianity. Start going to church and pray. Live the Christian life because many of the things they do are done only to brainwash.
I firmly believe that I could make myself Christian by living their life.
I think it was Pascal who spoke to this â??forcing your self to become religiousâ?�


-ps-sorry for posting without reading the entire thread.

That's ok harris...

It's an old thread from like April. United posted, then my mom came by telling how I need to go to church. I had thought she got over it.

I'm somewhat spiritual, and I'm NOT a lost soul. Although, my mom seems to think I am, lol

The church has a strong hold on my momma...yes they do!

I made some good ground with her months ago, but she has since gone back to the intolorance, anger, bitterness, and holier than thou attitude. Then she tells me that I need to go to church.

I hate it. She trys hard to be a 'good' christian, she's just missing the message, imo...

Much Love,

If god is real how come i havnt seen him? How do YOU know that out of hundreads of religons christianity is the "real" one. How do You know jesus existed just because it said it in a book that has been scientificly proven wrong? Show me proof of god, jesus, satan, heaven, hell then i will believe it.

It is impossible for somthing to be true if there is no proof of it whatsoever.

Oh and by the way im the son of god, give me your money and i will sacrafice my self and wash away your sins... heheh.

Who are you speaking to, SyR1S?

Just curious...

btw, there are truths that we will NEVER know. Many things are true, but offer no truth.

Think about what you said...

im not speaking to anyone in particular im jus speaking my mind

All religion starts from the same basis, as a guide to life. From there, it gets distorted, and beliefs and teachings change. All religions stemmed from one. Even most Eastern religions accept the fact that Jesus was a real person, son of God or not.

I was talking about god


Excuse me? How has it been proven wrong? How can science prove or disprove history? If that was true, we wouldn't be wondering if Darwins Theory was true or not. What about Noah's Ark which was found on the top of the mountain and is now on public display? That proves that the Bible had merit

Dinosours have been proven to be alive, were do we get our fossil fuels from? Evolution is not a complete proof but its getting there. The bible says that man was the first thing on the planet (well somthing like that, but certaintly not dinosours)

Show me proof that God, Jesus, Heaven DON'T exist. There is no proof for either side of the argument. It comes down to faith, and what one believes.

With that reasoning, tell me The boogy man doesnt exist. You dont have proof he doesnt. Anyone can jus make somthing up and say its real

All im trying to say is people who blindly think that there christian religion is 100 percent true are ignorant. An example is, im not saying the christian religon is Not real im jus saying people shouldnt be telling everyone it is the only thing that would oblige someone to do that is if they had evidence to back it up which christian do not.

I would edit and add this in to the other post
but theres a dumb 5 minute edit rule.

I can't neglect the good stuff in the Old Book, lol! I completely understand what you're saying, and agree to a point. (I'm not Christian, btw)

They're a stubborn bunch, them Christians, and very hard to reason with. Then again, there are atheist just as narrow minded...SyR1S

Much Love,

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Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall

And people that blindly believe that it's not real, and tell everyone that's it's not are also ignorant, as they have to evidence to prove it.

It goes both ways.

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Im dont blindly believe its not real i hope your not talking about me because thats not it but what is this evidence they have to prove it?

yes...some of them.

and you jus proved my main point by it going both ways for athiest, what im trying to prove is all religons are ignorent in some way having only one beliefe and disbeleiving all the others.

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Originally Posted by SyR1S

and you jus proved my main point by it going both ways for athiest, what im trying to prove is all religons are ignorent in some way having only one beliefe and disbeleiving all the others.

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ignoring the others could be viewed as ignorant, yes...I agree!

A closed mind is nothing more than a self imposed snare, imo.

Much Love,

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Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall

Once a person is so set on their beliefs which make them happy, they want to spread the word, and they wont listen to people who tell them that what they believe isn't real.

It's not ignorance, it's human nature!

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I think people should try to free the minds and look at the big picture, what you THINK is real isnt alwase real.

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I've noticed such a trend in eastern philosophy and religion. I believe this is because the western world itself has been crumbling morally; we realise this and blame the "belief system" that is most popular, but in actuallity I think it's a cultural flaw.Quote

Response: "I don't think the world is "crumbling morally". I think, on the contrary, that we've made great advances toward becoming more moral over the centuries. And this has a lot to do with rejecting ideas that have traditionally been promoted by religious institutions (especially Christian ones), such as slavery, sexism and homophobia.>>

Well said. Christianity uses the same tactic over and over, playing on people's fears that the world is getting worse and that we're all in danger,and wouldn't it be nice if we were all christians?...

There are no more wars or problems in the world (apart from global warming) than there've ever been. We're not on the rocky road to destruction, but instead realising that religion itself is the prime cause of most conflicts. We're thankfully growing out of the need for it. Does that mean that we'll all end up without morals and that the world will turn to evil? Of course not. On the whole, most of society plays the moral game much the same as it has for thousands of years with or without religion.

I'm not religious, but try to live a moral life. And yet as a non-christian I'm thought of as the enemy, a sinner, and not as worthy or good as a christian. What could be more destined to create strife and division?

If you look at this area of CC you'll notice that the same posters continually troll for debates and threads about christianity. It's the same on all other boards. We dont get any other religion selling door to door like that. And every time it's the same message - 'we are right, you are wrong and a sinner if you don't believe us.' Can religion ever be good in light of this?

Religion kills. Stop the war now.

MelT

Nice post...

Although, religion has played a positive roll in our world as well. It just seems outdated nowdays. Religion divides us, people kill us, but Love unites us. Why don't people value Love?

Because it can hurt...

:smokin: