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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Slip,
There's a diference between judging and taking a stand for what you believe is right. Christians have a saying that goes something like love the sinner hate the sin. With an issue that fires up an emotional response because its so controversial it does make it harder but its something we have to do.
Biblically, homosexuality is no diferent than any other sin. Sin is sin, no matter what it is. We can, and should, love and respect the person, without telling them we think what they are doing is right. If the person claims to be a Christian then we have the resposnibility to help that person overcome that sin, no matter what it is, and encourage them to come to repentence and restoration with God. We can not do that if we sin by being hateful towards the person themselves. However, if the person knows it is sin and refuses to repent then we have no choice but to ask them to leave the church. This process takes a lot of time and must be handled properly and biblically. This applies to all sin, not just homosexuality.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Slip,
There's a diference between judging and taking a stand for what you believe is right. Christians have a saying that goes something like love the sinner hate the sin. With an issue that fires up an emotional response because its so controversial it does make it harder but its something we have to do.
Biblically, homosexuality is no diferent than any other sin. Sin is sin, no matter what it is. We can, and should, love and respect the person, without telling them we think what they are doing is right. If the person claims to be a Christian then we have the resposnibility to help that person overcome that sin, no matter what it is, and encourage them to come to repentence and restoration with God. We can not do that if we sin by being hateful towards the person themselves. However, if the person knows it is sin and refuses to repent then we have no choice but to ask them to leave the church. This process takes a lot of time and must be handled properly and biblically. This applies to all sin, not just homosexuality.
you're not taking a stand for what's right, you are judging someone by their sexual prefrence and that is that... if we wanted to follow god's will we would, or we'd atleast seek help in how.. we don't need some dumb-fuck christain telling us what's right and wrong at every turn... maybe some christians just don't understand, but not everyone even belives in a god, and no matter how many "miracles" you show us, or words written by man that most claim to of been from god in one way or another is going to change our minds on the simple fact, that we just don't believe... besides that... i've never seen NOR heard of animals being subject to sin, and unless you can find somewhere it was written that they are subject to the same physics of sin (both temptation and punishment alike) after i say this next thing, i really don't want to hear it... because it's like you're trying to cover your tracks...
on to the point... god created animals (or so you say) animals have been known to be homosexual, and it's very often, you may not hear of it much for the simple fact it doesn't get much attention, but there are many many man species that are gay, and not as rarely as you'd think.... so if animals do it, and cant' be influenced by other people doing it as well (for example, someone may try to say the first person that was gay did it to rebel and the rest followed to rebel as well) that menas it happens naturally... if animals aren't subject tot he same sin physics as humans... how can you say it's NOT natural?
and i'll say it again, because alot of you seem to forget this... absolutely nowhere, no where at all, in any part of the bible, does it even hint at the fact that christians should try to convert others, or teach the word of god... abso-fucking-lutely NO WHERE does it say that... yet others still get preached at... however, you people say you do it, because we need god, or we need to learn about god, or for whatever reason, the only thing your book says, that even somewhat relates to this is not to judge, because they will be judged by god.. if your god and your theories on yoru god are right.. what happened to free will? "he gave it to us" for a reason.. so we cna make up our own minds whether or not to follow his word... so what makes you think you have the right to add in any of your own presausion?
simple facts: (based on your book)
1. doesn't say anything about you having an obligation to teach others.
2. DOES say to not judge, becuase they will be judged.
3. god gave us free will.. to make our own choices whether to follow or not.
main question:
how can you justify preaching to us/trying to convert us/ teaching us and so on, and judging us (by thinking we need god in our lives, you've obviously made some type of judgement, you don't just pick random people off the street and say "hey he looks like he doesn't believe in god") when your god says not to judge, and your god gave every human being free will for a reason?
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
foster children and orphans live a rough life and seeing two men kissing is the least of their problems - most of them live in harsh loveless environments and are headed for a life of drug abuse and crime - *any* chance such a child gets to be placed in a loving stable home far outweighs any wierdness he might have to put up with
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00d989
dude, theres HUGE difference between someone being simply gay, and someone whos a pedophile rapist.
if two people are gay and together, there is no one being hurt or anything like that.
if a little girl is being raped by some pervert....thats a whole different ball game. The two situations are not at all similar.
but, i guess thats my atheist opinion. seeing as you're a christian (and i respect that) i can see how you would view being gay as a "sexual deviancy"
by the way, i feel very sorry for you daughter. im sure she didnt deserve what happend to her
Howdy DooD,
Yup..yer right-there's a huge difference,and I no longer believe in accusing gays of beiing inherent pedophiles,and I don't believe in physical violence against them either. Nor do I believe in standing on a street corner,and hollering out that they are all going to Hell,either. I also believe that they deserve the same kind of respect and dignity,that any other human should recieve.
My religious beliefs,lead me to declare homosexuality,as being deviant and against God's Plan,contradictory to the laws of Nature that God put in place for us,that being,we're a heterosexual species. Just my humble opinion and belief.
Granted,there are many spiritual lessons to be learned from all of this controversey..however,the best model for a functional and thriving society,is to maintain the Yin/Yang principle,it's the best dynamic for producing well-adjusted children.
Thanx for yer kind words,my daughter is doing well..she was young when it happened and as they say.."Time heals all.."..praise the Lord.
Have a good one ...
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Its Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve...
All the sick cock sucking faggots should be lined up and shot!
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyRedBarron
All the sick cock sucking faggots should be lined up and shot!
Guess you better get in line. :rolleyes:
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
i have a few friens that are gay 2 girls and 1 guy, the girls dont bother me, well cuz im a guy and love every minute im with them cuz well htey are cute. and the guy is a great person, i dont have a problem with gays as long as they dont try to hit on me or whatever.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Slip, animals don't have a soul, therefore no sin issue.
I apologize if you feel I am judging or Bible thumping. I just see people quoting the Bible to fit there agenda and attack Christians and the Bible. They usually misquote it and all I'm trying to do is clarify.
As to your 3 points:
1. The Bible does say we are to spread the Word. That's part of the Great Commission
2. I've already covered the judging issue...it mainly has to do with our heart and motivation.
3.Yes, we all have free will.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Slip, animals don't have a soul, therefore no sin issue.
Yes slip... Your entire argument is IRRELEVANT because of basic biblical fact that prohibits him from even beginning to address the several paragraphs you took the time to type. Don't you love how that works?
Why don't you try asking about facts like touching the skin of a dead pig (i.e football) or working on the sabbath day? I'd love to hear what all the Mr. "I just see people quoting the Bible to fit there agenda"'s have to say about those little items as well as... I don't know... the entire rest of the Old Testament.
The selective reading skills of the so-called devout do a pretty good job at attacking Christianity alone without the help of anyone on an internet message board.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Fair enough.
Scripturally, man not animals were made in Gods image. Also, God breathed life into man, not animals. This is why I say animals have no soul. No where in the Bible does it say that animals are to repent from sin.
As to not touching pig flesh etc. the OT Law no lnger applies. One, I'm not a Jew and two, Jesus fullfilled the Law so we are no lnger bound by it as the Jews were.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I didn't read all of these because I am sure I have heard both sides. I did read the first few, and was pleasantly suprised :)
I personally am not gay. But I have an uncle who is. He was a virgin for a very long time because he didn't want to be a sinner. He also knew he was gay when he was 5. He is now open, and we all love him VERY much.
I do know that HE did not choose this. It is just the way it is. He tried damn hard to fit in, at the loss of tons of self esteem, and many unhappy years that didn't have to be unhappy. He even battled drug addictions because he was do depressed. I do believe that some people want attention, and can "choose" to be gay to get it. But I am not talking about them, cause they are doing ANYTHING to get attention, not just "being" gay.
I think that it is not up to anyone person to judge. If you don't like it, don't think about it. But no person is worthy of judging another persons worthyness. If that makes sense.
Some would actually disown family over this crap. I try to never ever ingage in negativity to the degree of hate. I know that I would never let something like who a person is attracted to drive me away from family, that is for damn sure. And if my son is gay? Then he is gay, and hopefully really good with colors so he can help me shop :) I hope he isn't, so he can have a bunch of little kids who look and act just like him!! But life is what it is.
I have always had big hands. I have always hated them, and wanted smaller hands. But there are things about this life, this body, whatever that can't be changed. These things have to be accepted, because it is what it is.
Eva
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
As to not touching pig flesh etc. the OT Law no lnger applies. One, I'm not a Jew and two, Jesus fullfilled the Law so we are no lnger bound by it as the Jews were.
My argument... made IRRELEVANT in one sentence. It's not that I'm wrong... it's that it just "doesn't matter". Classic.
See, now Christians feel comfortable interpreting biblical fact to suit the needs of their individual sect (or denomination if you like pretty words). I appreciate you providing a proper demonstration for the children.
I stand by my charge of selective reading skills :)
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Fair enough.
Scripturally, man not animals were made in Gods image. Also, God breathed life into man, not animals. This is why I say animals have no soul. No where in the Bible does it say that animals are to repent from sin.
As to not touching pig flesh etc. the OT Law no lnger applies. One, I'm not a Jew and two, Jesus fullfilled the Law so we are no lnger bound by it as the Jews were.
Animals have souls. Sorry, but they do. I have had to many of them to know that they are just like us, yet very different. Meaning, they communicate with one another, they love, they like, and dislike. But they are a whole different species, therefor we just don't get them. They are SO very smart.
And god created everything, we are each a piece of him. He is ALL of our father. It would not be here if it were not created by god. Animals, gays, you, me, jesus.
Eva
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I like a good discussion. Can you show me where it says the OT Law applies to Christians? Not trying to beat on you, I just want know where you're coming from for the sake of the discussion.
I'm looking at Acts 10 and 11 on the clean vs. unclean issue. Luke 24:44 concerns Jesus and the Law.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Eva, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the animals having a soul issue. They certainly have character and intelligence but from a biblical standpoint I can't agree with them having a soul.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17
The quote game is fun although not one I really care to play as interpretation is the issue at the very heart of my argument.
I simply contend that being a Christian means accepting all of the laws, not just the ones that allow us to feel smug about ourselves. If you can't do that then you are effectively practicing a new-age interpretation of Christianity.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Oh it just hit me that you asked for a quote from the OT. Oh well. That one is from a book you DO read so it should be a little more credible :)
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
The last thing I want to do is misinterpret Scripture. Please, show me where I am wrong. That's part of being in the family of God. If one of us get's some weird idea from our own interpretation we need to help keep each other in check.
My understanding is that Christ was the ultimate and final sacrifice for our sins. With His death and resurection all that we now have to do is believe on Him for salvation. Then the sanctification process begins as we grow in maturity as Christians.
I also believe that Jesus was arguing against the Pharisees about the Law. They were so busy keeping the Law, and all the traditions added to it, that they neglected the heart.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I did not specify where I wanted a quote from, I just wanted to know from where you based your beleif.
BTW, I read the whole thing. It depends on what subject I am studying and I go from there. I am also reading through it start to finish. I am currently in Psalms.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
The profession that produces the most pedophile offenders is priestcraft - hands down.
IF I had a kid, I wouldn't leave him or her alone with ANY person in the clergy.
"That's not what Jesus had in mind when he said "Suffer the Little Children to Come Unto Me"" -George Carlin
I live in the San Francisco area so I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of homosexuals. I have to say that 100% of them were really cool people. I don't think I can say that about 50% of the straight people I've met. Bottom line is that a person should be judged by their character, not their sexual preference.
As far as people saying it's "Against God's Plan", "Unnatural" etc-FUCK YOU. Whenever I hear this I think about me and my wife. At one time the same arguments were used to describe our realtionship and it wasn't that long ago (as late as the 1960's) that my marraige would have been illegal in some Bible thumping states. You see, I'm White and my wife is Chinese. Whenever I hear people saying this stuff about gays I think what my life would have been like 50 years ago (probably still would be in Toreg's home town) and it really pisses me off.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
The assault on homosexuality is more than a weird idea though. I understand that it has some kind of biblical reinforcement but it isn't at all clear what that is. At the same time most Americans do practice this new-age interpretation of Christianity, observing some laws while ignoring others. While this has become overwhelmingly accepted you simply cannot then go back to "biblical fact" and 2000+ years of religious clout for justification of social policy that at times violates basic human rights.
Some people on here think I'm a Jew and while I'm comfortable with that, it isn't the case. I was raised in the United Methodist Church complete with Sunday School and mission trips. That being said, it is my understanding that as I human being I have the absolute obligation to seek the truth, whatever it may be.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Let me try. Haven't had a priest able to answer this yet.
God made the earth.
God made all the animals and the creatures on it.
God made man.
God made animals with homosexual behavior.
God made man with homosexual behavior.
Since God himself, by our own doctrine, made man and animals then the religious people do not have a problem with homosexuality. They have a problem because they do not agree with the way God made people and animals. Sounds like they need to take their complaints to God and leave other people out of it.
There is nowhere in the Ten Commandments, the only words in the bible directly written by God or Jesus, does it say that homosexuality is against God. Only later in the bible is this written, not by Jesus or God, probably by someone with more than a little prejudice redneck in them.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Is a womans opinion needed or what? Smile
Hello,
My man & I live in Puerto Vallarta Mexico. Its very beautiful & romantic here. I am a Bi-sexual girl (Gay) ,cute & petit,I love my man but there are feminine areas that I need in my life that he cant fulfill so we chase girls together. I think that as long as everyone respects each other there should be no reason why we cant all just get along. Love isn´t limited by anything & can´t be confined by our ideas of what we think it should be. I hope we can make a lot of friends here on this board.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
How is it a new-age interpretation? Where in Scripture does it say that I am still bound by the Law as it was given to Moses?
As for homosexuality I think most people using the Bible to argue against it use Lev 20:13. In the NT it is lumped together with all sexual immoralty.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I'm not sure how else to classify a modern adaptation of ancient religious belief. I don't believe that modern Christianity can consider itself authentic just because it has become socially acceptable to do so. When that occurs there is a weird breakdown of faith. It's one of the reasons I can't identify myself as Christian.
This isn't about scripture, it's about logic and how you reach conclusions when it comes to faith. My original comment was how people often reach back into the Old Testament (Leviticus) while ignoring all the other perceived "nonsense" it contains. It is indicative of an underlying bias or other personal shortcoming.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I've never called any part of Scripture nonsense. I beleive 2 Tim 3:16,17 applies to the entire Word of God.
If you are right and I am still bound by the Law then I have a serious sin issue that I need to deal with. So, I'm asking you to show me where I went wrong so I can repent and change accordingly.
I myself am anti-religion and anti-tradition. I beleive in a very personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. (oversimplified but its the root of my faith)
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I don't want to get entirely off topic because that isn't what this thread is about. I read some of what you wrote in the Spirituality forums so there is a chance we will get to further discuss. It was not my intention to call you a sinner though, I wouldn't do that.
I'm off to burn my mother for wearing a garmet made out of two different types of cloth. AWAY!!! :D
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
i have two moms. i was raised in a same-sex household and i turned out just fine. gays are people too.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
Slip, animals don't have a soul, therefore no sin issue.
I apologize if you feel I am judging or Bible thumping. I just see people quoting the Bible to fit there agenda and attack Christians and the Bible. They usually misquote it and all I'm trying to do is clarify.
As to your 3 points:
1. The Bible does say we are to spread the Word. That's part of the Great Commission
2. I've already covered the judging issue...it mainly has to do with our heart and motivation.
3.Yes, we all have free will.
ok.. i've heard you christians say your soul is what animates your body, and when your body gives out, your soul leaves it where it is judged to go to heaven or hell... that being said... if animals have no souls, how are they alive? next, god created everything (according to yal) therefore he created animals, therefore if his creation (animals) can be gay, and it's not a sin, i can only ask how it's any diffrent to humans... forget that quote of humans were created in gods image... explain it this way...
humans think, eat, feel and so on
humans have genitals to procreate
humans have sex to reproduce
humans seek companionism
humans were created by god
animals think, eat, feel and so on
animals have genitals to procreate
animals have sex to reproduce
animals seek companionism
animals were created by god
in essense, animals are in no way shape or form diffrent from humans, we both as a species have alot (if not all) the same 'innards' and same body systems (skeletal, blood, nervous, and so on) the only thing that really seperates us from dogs (medically speaking, we're also seperate cuz they are pets and we're not, but ignore that part, slightest little thing in history could of changed that all) is thier bodys (shape and stuff like that) and the fact we don't know how to fully communicate with them....
animals have gay sex, they are not against god, nor sinning when they do, humans are very close to animals (with the given choices, we sure aren't closer to plants) animals were created by god, as well as humans... if god doesn't get angry with his animals for having "unnatural sex" what makes you think he gets angry at his humans for doing the same? keep in mind, i don't believe in the bible, nor follow it.. i only use it from time to time to point out how hypocritical all of you really are.... whether you wanna face it or not, the bible was written by man, therefore it's subject to being full of lies and mistakes, since no human is perfect after all....
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
first, "my good luck with that" comment was in response to lemonboy. I apologize for any confusion.
Slip,
From the creation account in the Bible, man is the only living being that God breathed life into, this is why I say we have a soul while animals do not. Not having a soul means sin is not an issue for animals. Man does have a soul, so sin is an issue.
I hope you didn't expect me to let you use the Bible to attack my beliefs and have me not use it to defend mine?
I am merely explaining my view, not trying to attack someone elses. I do, on occassion, ask for verification so I can fully understand why a person thinks what they think for the sake of the discussion.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
ok im' confused... how many times a day do you christians say go created everything in this world and the next... yet here you are standing here telling me god only gave life to humans...
care to explain that to me?
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
yes, I can. God did create everything. I didn't deny that. He spoke everything into existence but He only breathed into man.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho
in essense, animals are in no way shape or form diffrent from humans, we both as a species have alot (if not all) the same 'innards' and same body systems (skeletal, blood, nervous, and so on) the only thing that really seperates us from dogs (medically speaking, we're also seperate cuz they are pets and we're not, but ignore that part, slightest little thing in history could of changed that all) is thier bodys (shape and stuff like that) and the fact we don't know how to fully communicate with them....
First I agree with you. Second, by your description, animals are actually smarter than us because THEY have learned our language in order to communicate with us. Dogs sit, cat's use a specific place to go to the bathroom. This is not instinct, this is learned :)
Most people don't have the slightest clue what their animal is saying to them, yet their animal will obey, because they know what your saying.
Just wanted to add to the point is all.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
I like you Mont, seriously! So please don't take any disrespect by this.
The bible is a book BASED on whole books. I think it isn't ment by GOD to be taken so literally. It was written by man after all. No matter what version, it is still a story. It is okay if you disgree, I am just responding to your new posts.
Eva
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho
ok.. this post made me think of something (and it' snot directed at you, it's directed at the christains) if, god is against homosexuality... and the damn bible says in it "do not judge, fore ye will be judged as well" why doy ou christians so openly bash gays? your book says not to judge, which would even include gays... if you really believe in your god.. then stop voting against gay marriage, stop openly bashing gays and let "your god" deal with them as he (bible) says he will, you're not god, you're not related to god, you have no right to judge as if you were god.
I myself am Christian but i am not prejudice against gays. I don't necessarily think it is right or natural but it is their body and they can choose to do what they wish. God gave us all free will right? Excellent post. In the bible i think somewhere it says homosexuality is wrong but it never says treat them badly or discriminate against them. The bible is also very anti-killing and anti-murder, yet Jesus says to visit those in prisons and be kind to all, ESPECIALLY THOSE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY SOCIETY. He would hang out with lepers who were considered sinners and punished by God. Jesus loves all even gays and murderers and all other kinds of people. It is extremely wrong for Christians to be gay-bashing. IT is ANTI-CHRIST. It goes against the ways of Jesus.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mont974x4
yes, I can. God did create everything. I didn't deny that. He spoke everything into existence but He only breathed into man.
so because he blew his stinky breath on us, we're instantly forced to deal with sin... yea that makes so much sense... quit twisting words to fit the application... either homosexuality is wrong in all of god's creatures, or you christians use the supposed sin of homosexuality to openly hate another human being you don't understand... homosexuality is not a choice.. just like you don't choose whether you find girls attractive (if your male) or if you find guys attractive (if your female) they dont' choose either....
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo
I myself am Christian but i am not prejudice against gays. I don't necessarily think it is right or natural but it is their body and they can choose to do what they wish. God gave us all free will right? Excellent post. In the bible i think somewhere it says homosexuality is wrong but it never says treat them badly or discriminate against them. The bible is also very anti-killing and anti-murder, yet Jesus says to visit those in prisons and be kind to all, ESPECIALLY THOSE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY SOCIETY. He would hang out with lepers who were considered sinners and punished by God. Jesus loves all even gays and murderers and all other kinds of people. It is extremely wrong for Christians to be gay-bashing. IT is ANTI-CHRIST. It goes against the ways of Jesus.
i commend you dude... finally, a christian with a logical head on their shoulders... you are the type of christian i have nothing against, you don't twist words to fit whatever you're saying, you say it as it is in the book and take it that way... you have what i like to call true faith, which is where you follow the bible and dont' just twist things as you see fit against things you dislike/dont understand.
again i commend you...
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
actually the bible itself has already been "twisted" so to speak. In order for a book to be read by the public, a book needs to be 'put out there'. It needs, what they call today, a publisher. Back when the Bible was put together, the Roman Catholic Church was the publisher. It decided what went into this book. In this case, what books went into this book; what authors were good enough for it; what information they wanted made public and what information they did not want made public.
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Where Do You Stand On Homosexuality?
The Romans and The Greeks, who were Roman Catholis were also VERY gay. So talk about a hypocritical bunch writting a book that is to be lived by thousands of years later.