Evolution or God????. . . .

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Originally Posted by ADaisyChain

Sorry for being a retard. CCC's make me a nutjob. I don't see a need for a god anymore. If you believe god can exist forever, then why not take a step down and believe the universe we know and can see can exist forever. I think it's all very interesting that we came to be. Amazing in fact. But I don't see the need for something intelligent making us. I think its just as likely we're coincidence made as it is god made. I kind of hope I'm wrong though, because I don't like the idea of nothingness, not that I'd recognize it to dislike it when I'm in it. I want a soul. If I don't have one though, it doesn't matter too much, because I'll never know in that case.

I'll either not know until I'm dead, or never know. But in the words of socrates
"Why fear eternal paradise and why fear nothing?" in some other language.

I clicked I believe in evolution, because I definately believe in evolution. I'm not sure about god though, and I'm leaning towards doubt and just ignoring the possibility and living a life according to my moral standards.

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It sounds like you listen to God and obey him, but you won't tell anyone. That one sentence is kind of funny, "I don't see the need for something intelligent making us". Think of an option for that sentence . Maybe there are hundreds, thousands of universes made by different Gods, and the Milky Way was the creation of one of the slow Gods. In that case, we should be concerned for Our God and give him support. I'm sure some people know what's it like getting picked last for a pick-up game.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

The question is invalid, anyway. You don't "believe" in evolution, just like you don't "believe" in relativity, or "believe" in electricity. These, along with evolution, are concepts that simply are, they exist. I don't "believe" in a tree because whether I believe in it or not, it's there.

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Electricity has long been seen as the conduction of electric stuff. :stoned:

Having studied Evolution and related subjects as a Cellular & Molecular Biologist, there are obviously no doubts in my mind as to the validity of the Darwinian theory of Evolution..

I really don't get how people can just ignore the heaps of paleontological, genetic and anatomical evidence there is for evolution just because some ancient text says the Earth was created in 6 days. If you really take this story seriously, you actually believe that the Earth existed before the stars did, which means you have to throw out huge heaps of astronomical evidence too. If you believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old or so, you have to throw out all modern geology. Eventually the person who believes the Bible to be literally true will end up rejecting all modern science, hence the war on science that's coming from the religious right in this country. These people are trying to introduce their religious superstition into our science classrooms so they can destroy science as we know it.

And the ironic thing is that they're supposedly doing it in the name of science. They actually call it "Christian Science", even though there's no science involved whatsoever. Science means you look at the evidence and draw conclusions from that. When the evidence contradicts your previous conclusions, you modify them. Christian "Scientists" never modify their ideas; they take as dogmatically true anything that is said in the Bible and try to cram the evidence into an account of history that will agree with that.

There's a reason all respectable scientists reject the Bible as an ancient work of fiction, because that's apparently exactly what it is. It rejects all kinds of observable, verifiable evidence. You have to be either really scientifically ignorant or really self-delusional to embrace creationism. Fortunately it seems to be the former, which could perhaps be solved with better science education. If we can successfully defend science education, that is.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

I can't believe some people believe that all matter and energy just somehow manages to exist in a very orderly fashion WITHOUT something beyond this phyiscal materialistic reality fashioning and guiding it (aka God)

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What I can't believe is that people think that God is actually a being of some sort.

I believe In God .
It is too evident that something of intelligent design is at work behind the seens!
If the evolution of man came from ape, why has it stopped?, where is the link?
And what caused the evolution to happen?..was there intervention of unknown design responsible for our making?
Where did the D.N.A come from?
These questions haven't been answered by science!
And the only way they ever will be answered, is when God comes down for a visit!
according to the Bible, this is suppose to happen, so we will see the the truth unfold as written.
All will be brought in to the light....

was gonna write about 20 paragraphs i felt all inspired and shit, then i got blazed so fuck it i cant be bothered.










I AM GOD

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Originally Posted by Sir Les

I believe In God .
It is too evident that something of intelligent design is at work behind the seens!
If the evolution of man came from ape, why has it stopped?, where is the link?
And what caused the evolution to happen?..was there intervention of unknown design responsible for our making?
Where did the D.N.A come from?
These questions haven't been answered by science!
And the only way they ever will be answered, is when God comes down for a visit!
according to the Bible, this is suppose to happen, so we will see the the truth unfold as written.
All will be brought in to the light....

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What do you mean evolution has stopped? I'm freaking alien, bitch!1

And why is Evolution and Creationism always pitted against each other? Is it so impossible to concieve the possibility that maybe a higher force created the "elements" to help the universe process it's self through evolution? Well, that would explain just about everything!1 But oh nnnoooo... it was only God!1

Why is God always looked at as a being or "consciousness" apart from humans and animals and everything else? Wouldn't it be more plausible to say that God is the collection of everything as a whole and that it all connects at the one point it started? NOPE! God is the one that created everything and we are his servent!!1 No,... I think the point is to be servents to your fellow man and creatures and even the environment (as it's all one). Think on the planets level... ouch, more garbage... oh shit, not another hurricane caused by shifts in the stabilty of my core because of nukes!1 OH NOES!

"With knowledge comes wisdom and understanding, and with wisdom and understanding comes empathy and unconditional love". - Me, I think.

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Originally Posted by PukkaSkunk

was gonna write about 20 paragraphs i felt all inspired and shit, then i got blazed so fuck it i cant be bothered.










I AM GOD

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Was gonna write, too, now I feel all inspired to blaze, thanks. :stoned:

Rum & COCA-COLA, I don't understand this sentence:

that it all connects at the one point it started

I can't explain it either... what I meant was... the collection of everything is connected at the one point where it all started. This is God.

Like this...

@-------------------\________________|----------------
^>>>>^>>>>>>>>>>^>>>>>>>>>>>>>^>>>>>>>>>>>^
God//Everything//Present Day//Later... it hasn't happened yet.//And the time that hasn't occured yet.

Sorry for the shitty diagram. It probably only makes sense to me... figure it out, anyways!

Stupid editing nonsense! but yeah... God was the start of the universe and it has been flowing through spacetime ever since it's creation. But it goes through a constant cycle of death (crunch) and rebirth (bang) and the universe constantly has to build it's self up again... and life to evolve again... and the next time the universe comes together, maybe we'll get closer to consciousness evolution.

I'm tired. GOOD FUCKING NIGHT.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

The question is invalid, anyway. You don't "believe" in evolution, just like you don't "believe" in relativity, or "believe" in electricity. These, along with evolution, are concepts that simply are, they exist. I don't "believe" in a tree because whether I believe in it or not, it's there.

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but you see you have to BELIEVE in your interpretation of the evidence for evolution. That is the theory that man came from natural means. Show me where they've found remains of an ape-man, not an ape and then a man, and THEN you'll have an argument.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

but you see you have to BELIEVE in your interpretation of the evidence for evolution. That is the theory that man came from natural means. Show me where they've found remains of an ape-man, not an ape and then a man, and THEN you'll have an argument.

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OH LORD I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT AND BEHOLD, I DO BELIEVE.

Seriously man, stop mixing up your little faith with science because you can't win, and in the end you just end up playing with semantics. There is nothing to believe, like I said, the sky will always be blue whether you or I believe it or not.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

but you see you have to BELIEVE in your interpretation of the evidence for evolution. That is the theory that man came from natural means. Show me where they've found remains of an ape-man, not an ape and then a man, and THEN you'll have an argument.

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Here's your ape-man.

http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/pithecanthropus

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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs

Here's your ape-man.

http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/pithecanthropus

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Dubois' find was not a complete specimen, as many are led to believe, but consisted merely of a skullcap, a femur, and three teeth. A 342 page report written shortly after the find throws much doubt upon the validity of this particular specimen. Despite this, the Java Man is still found in many textbooks today. A second Java Man was later discovered in the village of Sangiran, Central Java, 18km to the north of Solo. His remains, a skullcap of similar size to that found by Dubois, was discovered by Berlin-born paleontologist GHR von Koenigswald in 1936, as a direct result of excavations by Dubois in 1891.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

Dubois' find was not a complete specimen, as many are led to believe, but consisted merely of a skullcap, a femur, and three teeth. A 342 page report written shortly after the find throws much doubt upon the validity of this particular specimen. Despite this, the Java Man is still found in many textbooks today. A second Java Man was later discovered in the village of Sangiran, Central Java, 18km to the north of Solo. His remains, a skullcap of similar size to that found by Dubois, was discovered by Berlin-born paleontologist GHR von Koenigswald in 1936, as a direct result of excavations by Dubois in 1891.

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that's straight from your link, thanks :)

That is exactly what I mean. If you're trying to determine this new find, and you, like Darwin, are doing it with the presupposition that "God has not created man, so can we say that humanity came from "X", and "X" has led us to believe that such and such is so and so, we could include that bias of our belief into our fallible human mind. That is where you have to look closely at the truth and what is absolute truthful, logical, and sensible when explaining this.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

Dubois' find was not a complete specimen, as many are led to believe, but consisted merely of a skullcap, a femur, and three teeth. A 342 page report written shortly after the find throws much doubt upon the validity of this particular specimen. Despite this, the Java Man is still found in many textbooks today. A second Java Man was later discovered in the village of Sangiran, Central Java, 18km to the north of Solo. His remains, a skullcap of similar size to that found by Dubois, was discovered by Berlin-born paleontologist GHR von Koenigswald in 1936, as a direct result of excavations by Dubois in 1891.

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If you can't tell, Dubois has found something that is quite ordinary; that is a skullcap, a femur, and three teeth of some ordinairy animal or perhaps human remains, and has for some reason gotten it in his head that he should assume it could be something different...

That guy had to bury his findings underneath a floorboard because of skeptics back in 1895.

More than a century later, he's still burying his bones.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

OH LORD I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT AND BEHOLD, I DO BELIEVE.

Seriously man, stop mixing up your little faith with science because you can't win, and in the end you just end up playing with semantics. There is nothing to believe, like I said, the sky will always be blue whether you or I believe it or not.

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Dude, that's the thing. We're both making our arguments based on science. The difference is the education of that science, and the presuppositionprior to interpreting it that goes behind it. If someone where looking at a dinosaur bone with the idea that there is a God, being the christian God, than they would assume that "it gave such an appearance as it does keeping in mind that the global flood and weight of water could possibly alter it's qualities".
Someone who has decided to deny what the bible has to say might take these altered "qualities" differently, saying "hmm these appear to show such and such indicating they would be this old. That is why christian science tends to agree with a 10,000 year old earth rather than a 4.5 billion year old one. That changes a lot of what secular science says, such as evolution (something that would take millions of years to occure). You see there is a very scientifically secure ground in which christianity stands on.

To put it this way, IF (for the sake of the argument here) the bible were correct, than using it as a scientific refrence would be the most accurate and intellegent way to propel scientific discovery. Think about it, the bible claims to be the "book of Life"...the "how to" book to how and what humanity is supposed to live (not by it's examples mind you, but by it's moral lessons when they are finally learned)...surely any wisdom and knowledge that humanity might gain in the field of science would come from God as humanity has this way of twisting thigns. IF the bible is true...but arguments against christianity that people claim to be from science are never that formidable...thought evolution caught on with a lot of people

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

Dude, that's the thing. We're both making our arguments based on science. The difference is the education of that science, and the presuppositionprior to interpreting it that goes behind it. If someone where looking at a dinosaur bone with the idea that there is a God, being the christian God, than they would assume that "it gave such an appearance as it does keeping in mind that the global flood and weight of water could possibly alter it's qualities".
Someone who has decided to deny what the bible has to say might take these altered "qualities" differently, saying "hmm these appear to show such and such indicating they would be this old. That is why christian science tends to agree with a 10,000 year old earth rather than a 4.5 billion year old one. That changes a lot of what secular science says, such as evolution (something that would take millions of years to occure). You see there is a very scientifically secure ground in which christianity stands on.

To put it this way, IF (for the sake of the argument here) the bible were correct, than using it as a scientific refrence would be the most accurate and intellegent way to propel scientific discovery. Think about it, the bible claims to be the "book of Life"...the "how to" book to how and what humanity is supposed to live (not by it's examples mind you, but by it's moral lessons when they are finally learned)...surely any wisdom and knowledge that humanity might gain in the field of science would come from God as humanity has this way of twisting thigns. IF the bible is true...but arguments against christianity that people claim to be from science are never that formidable...thought evolution caught on with a lot of people

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and also keep in mind that IF the bible is correct, that means there is a darkness in our existance that lies to us and tries to skew our vision of reality. Therefor IF christianity exists as true, than mankind itself is under seige by the devil, and our vision of reality is, to put it bluntly, tampered with every day... there are beings out there who are opposed to it in every way, and in ever aspect of life, including those in the field of scientific research...so I have reason to suspect that science will be used in an attempt to thwart my religion

to Pyramidsonmars...

Dude, let me just begin by saying i'm drunk off my ass, this new year's eve...

You suck... You view everything through your christian lens. I've been there. One day you will realize that it's all arbitrary.

Sorry for my first previous post, it was the esult of drunken stupour.......................... :eek:

to Pyramidsonmars...

Dude, let me just begin by saying i'm drunk off my ass, this new year's eve...

You suck... You view everything through your christian lens. I've been there. One day you will realize that it's all arbitrary. Nothing means anything. Everything is absolutely ,meaningless.

Why do we look at Roman/Greek mythology and say, "oh, that';s just a myth" and then we look at christianity, and we devote our LIFE to it... It's completely meaningless. Nothing means anything, we exist, and that's it. We have no point, there ius no God, and we just live and reproduce ourselves for no other reason than we have to.

I was sick, very sick. That was the final straw. now, I am well, but my faith is completely gone, I am as atheist as you will ever see, because there is NOTHING else out there than ourselves.

however, we still have an obligation to humanity in general to do good, to help one another. Because I have no God, does not m,ean I am not good. I respect my fellow human. I love you all, but I believe in no Jesus, in no God at all.

Ultimately, I believe in Humanity. I believe in the potential of the human being. We do not need God anymore, That's wher Nietzsche's "God is Dead" comes from. We are beyond God, beyond Good and Evil. Anyone who thinks in those terms is outdated, irrelevant!

We are. There is no ther explanation. It's useless for you to find one, no one said it better than Descartes, "I think therefore I am." You simply are. No one willed you to be, you have no ultimate purpose other than the continuation of our species.

Why should we believe in your mythology rather than Greek or Roman or Chinese or Egyptian mythology? That is tyhe essential question. There is no reason to believe one religion over another, and for you to claim that Christianity is the absolute trut is of the utmost arrogance.

I am Italian, I was raised Roman Catholic, I know what it is to be a real Christian. Yet, I have rejected it as soon as I was able to thini for myself. And you my friend, are the last of a dying breed, the religious people. Ojnhe day, you will all realize that everything means absolutely n othing in the long run. Life is meaningless. existence is meaningless. religion is meaningless. God is meaningless. Allah is meaningless. Yaweh is meaningless, as well as Buddha, Shiva, Vishnu, and Every7one else..

We exist, and we might as well make as much out of our existence as we possibly can. The potential of the Human Being is limitless. We can achieve Divinity, God represents our potential power. we can shape our world around us, as long as we stop fighting and killing each other based simply on differring points of view. and you, Pyramidsonmars, are just another brainwashed soldire, unable to think for yourself, for you have pledged yourself toa certain cause, and you view everything through that distorted lens.

Step back, start from scratch, be simply a Human Being, rather than a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Jew. That, my friend, is atheism. Acceptance of all of humanity, acceptance of truth, acceptance of reality, THAT is Atheism. Philosophy, Science, Un-contaminated TRUTH, that is reality. There is no God, there is no Allah, there is no Yawheh, There is no Jupiter or Zeus.

We are.

We are reality, we are the ultimate. whether we are European, or Jew, Arab or Chinese, We are. And that, IMO, Is the ultimate truth.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

Dude, that's the thing. We're both making our arguments based on science. The difference is the education of that science, and the presuppositionprior to interpreting it that goes behind it. If someone where looking at a dinosaur bone with the idea that there is a God, being the christian God, than they would assume that "it gave such an appearance as it does keeping in mind that the global flood and weight of water could possibly alter it's qualities".
Someone who has decided to deny what the bible has to say might take these altered "qualities" differently, saying "hmm these appear to show such and such indicating they would be this old. That is why christian science tends to agree with a 10,000 year old earth rather than a 4.5 billion year old one. That changes a lot of what secular science says, such as evolution (something that would take millions of years to occure). You see there is a very scientifically secure ground in which christianity stands on.

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I dont' see how you claim that both evolution and creationism are both based on presupposition. evolution is a science that grew and continues to grow and change based on new findings and evidence. the world is not this simple place where you choose your side and base your theory off it, real science is objectively analysing real evidence to find out as much as you can. all the bible is is a book of claims. there's no evidence or sceintific theory behind it's creation, it was created so as to spread the message that god has all your answers.

besides, the whole water pressure making dinosaur bones look old is just rediculous. besides the fact that there's no explanation as to where all the water came from and went, palaentologists didn't look at dinosaur bones and say "hey, you know that bone looks like it's..... let say 100 million years old". water pressure wouldn't change radioactive decay, wouldn't affect bone decay in the same way, and it doesn't account for there being varations in bone ages by as much as 200 million years and maybe more (speaking strictly of dinosaurs).

what it all comes down to is the bible doesn't actaully have any evidence other than trying find holes in other people's evidence.

To Flesh:

Tu la rubella regazza con cu shue.

god created evolution, stfu already and get a new topic going, maybe one that can make an actual IMPACT on the world instead of bickering over something that isnt going to do us an ounce of shit.


god created evolution so that a single celled organism could evolve into humans and turn the world into shit while bickering over creationism and evolution.

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

god created evolution, stfu already and get a new topic going, maybe one that can make an actual IMPACT on the world instead of bickering over something that isnt going to do us an ounce of shit.


god created evolution so that a single celled organism could evolve into humans and turn the world into shit while bickering over creationism and evolution.

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good job, you've figured it out, uncovered all the answers, provided a solution to everything we ever wanted to know.... of course there's always the fools that dont' want to take your opinion as unquestionable fact.

im just kinda tired of seeing this thread continue to live on :D

shame on me for even posting in here :p

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

im just kinda tired of seeing this thread continue to live on :D

shame on me for even posting in here :p

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shame on us all then, as long as we're all shamed together :p .


but hey, as long as you don't click on a thread it can't bother you, the others in the meanwhile want to explore certain philosophies to the fullest extent.

no no, it CAN bother me, it's like a post-black hole! it's absorbing all the decent posts on an indecent topic! i must put an end to this trecherous thread!


lol ok, so anyways, where are we?

everything is in a state of evolution, as while humans struggle to survive (albiet relying on machines) we slowly reverse our evolution. spiritual evolution, physical evolution, and mental evolution.

your thoughts have evolved since you were born, and continue to evolve, revolving around the rest of the world which you experiance.
your bodies dont really evolve anymore, and at a bare minimum; exerscise. and we're not getting enough, because we rely on machines to survive. we let SOMETHING else do the heavy lifting, and we just simply exist to make IT better, and OURSELVES worse.
with the constant failure to fufill our physical lives, we are constantly being reborn, destined to repeat this drag existance untill we finally learn our lessons, so we can advance, spiritually.

most of us dont seem to be capable of spiritual evolution anymore, and i dont doubt that this wont be my last time here on earth :(


but things ARE changing, with the help of the internet, many people are becoming more aware of the other sides of life they have been indavertly ignorant to all their lives.

many people are getting their wake up calls, and making an attempt to help, but due to the conditioned ignorance, thanks to your oh so protective government :rolleyes:

they shiled us from a lot, and are ignorant, themselves, to a lot more, else they would not feel the need to dumb us down.

there is a lot that is blocking our mental and spiritual evolution, and our own lazyness is hindering our physical evolution.


evolution is a painful existance, no pain no gain.

oh yeah, and vannity is pretty anti-evolution as well, just thought i'd throw that in there.

I know, everytime someone posts, it goes bold, again.

bold?

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I dont' see how you claim that both evolution and creationism are both based on presupposition. evolution is a science that grew and continues to grow and change based on new findings and evidence. the world is not this simple place where you choose your side and base your theory off it, real science is objectively analysing real evidence to find out as much as you can. all the bible is is a book of claims. there's no evidence or sceintific theory behind it's creation, it was created so as to spread the message that god has all your answers.

besides, the whole water pressure making dinosaur bones look old is just rediculous. besides the fact that there's no explanation as to where all the water came from and went, palaentologists didn't look at dinosaur bones and say "hey, you know that bone looks like it's..... let say 100 million years old". water pressure wouldn't change radioactive decay, wouldn't affect bone decay in the same way, and it doesn't account for there being varations in bone ages by as much as 200 million years and maybe more (speaking strictly of dinosaurs).

what it all comes down to is the bible doesn't actaully have any evidence other than trying find holes in other people's evidence.

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You seem to know a lot about this field of science? Perhaps you've studied it? Anyway, the bible clearly says that rain came down, but the "waters of the deep burst forth". It's one thing when writting a fictional story involving acts by super natural forces to simply just "provide enough water", but the bible itself is clearly somewhat scientific in it's story of the flood (at least it contains more scientific knowledge than any other doctrine, not to mention much of that science was not known at that time) The christian bible explains this very 'un-natural' (in the sense that it only happened once) world wide flood in the most sensible, realistic way that such a thing could happen. God never breaks any rule of nature, but rather bends them.The idea that water also came up from the ground and then very clearly decended back into the earth makes that question "where did all the water come from" a bit easier to see.

You know, it's a completely subjective thing, and that's why it's hard to argue about it. Person "A" sits in a corner and says I put my faith in what these evolutionists say because their reasons make sense...person "B" sits in the other corner saying I put my faith in what this bible says because it seems to speak to the world in a way no other book does. I'm sure both our opinions seem very odd to the other, but it's important to get across that I used to be atheist (and buddhist but that's aside from the point) and held evolutionairy views, though even at that time I had much skepticizm about them. I at least know where they come from, and the mindset that needs them, but there came a point in my life where most of my questions that went unanswered were answered when I finally gave up and asked God.

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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars

You seem to know a lot about this field of science? Perhaps you've studied it? Anyway, the bible clearly says that rain came down, but the "waters of the deep burst forth". It's one thing when writting a fictional story involving acts by super natural forces to simply just "provide enough water", but the bible itself is clearly somewhat scientific in it's story of the flood (at least it contains more scientific knowledge than any other doctrine, not to mention much of that science was not known at that time) The idea that water also came up from the ground and then very clearly decended back into the earth makes that question "where did all the water come from" a bit easier to see.

You know, it's a completely subjective thing, and that's why it's hard to argue about it. Person "A" sits in a corner and says I put my faith in what these evolutionists say because their reasons make sense...person "B" sits in the other corner saying I put my faith in what this bible says because it seems to speak to the world in a way no other book does. I'm sure both our opinions seem very odd to the other, but it's important to get across that I used to be atheist (and buddhist but that's aside from the point) and held evolutionairy views, though even at that time I had much skepticizm about them. I at least know where they come from, and the mindset that needs them, but there came a point in my life where most of my questions that went unanswered were answered when I finally gave up and asked God.

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did you give up and ask god or did you look to the bible.


the biggest, and most flawed mistake in "looking to god" is that people look to RELIGION(s), and never once speak to god or listen to what GOD has to say.

I am God.

right, and im your son.

god got all constipated, and eventually he was so backed up, that everything combined was collecting in his ass.

when he finally passed that disgusting mass, the result was Earth.

god felt so sorry for the inhabitants, to be a mutilated hybrid of reality, and the worst part is we clogged his toilet, so now we're dead center between heven and hell, hence the whole yin yang thing, the existance of both good and evil.

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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs

To Flesh:

Tu la rubella regazza con cu shue.

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Hhmm?

Charles Darwin was definately a racist.

I mean, Look at the title of his book
The Origin of Species
OR
The Preservation of the favored races.