Torog

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

You wanted my comments? Well guess what... You're absolutely right! About the getting stoned part, at least.... The difference, I simply refuse to place my spirit, life-force, or whatever you wanna call it in a Christian framework, because I simply don't believe in it. To me, putting your faith in an omnipotent being, caring more for the after-life than for life, are all mis-guided, and cannabis has only pushed me harder in that direction. Christianity is, simply put, to deny the potential of mankind to be God themselves. We live in our world now and today, so let's make it a better place now. The after-life is completely irrelevant for obvious reasons. Why make sacrifices today to ensure that you will be ok aftr you die? It really doesn't make sense to me. Do you really need a religion to tell you that killing someone is bad? that lying is bad? that disrespecting your parents is bad? No you don't because we already know that.

What you call God, I call consciousness. When you die, you wanna make things right with God, I wanna make things right with my conscience.

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Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....

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Originally Posted by Torog

I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

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i respect that's your beliefs, but it never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make for their god, ok here's one i'd like to see someone make an excuse for, why.... just simply why would some high deity that obviously expresses human emotion (as told by your book) create all this, leave billions over the years to suffer and not do a damn thing to intervene? what could your god hope to gain from watching alooooooooooooooooooooooot of lesser creatures roam the 'earth he made' and 'learn spirtiual lessons' he's all knowing all wise (according to yal) and he can do anything he absolutely feels like. so why, even if you ever did prove your god is real, i'd still never worship him. know why? cuz it just seems like he enjoys playing 'doll house' just a little bit too much. according to yal he gives to US, so i'll ask again, what could he hope to gain from this all? he can't gain wisdom he has it, can't gain wealth he doesn't need it, can't gain companionism becasue no one's ever seen or talked to him. so about the only thing possible left for him to gain from it all (given the circumstances) is entertainment.... and if your god is entertained by death, famine, plague, heartache, pain, struggle, heinous crimes, and suffering, well then he's not so mighty in my mind and i want nothing to do with him.

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Originally Posted by Lulu

Isnâ??t there some way you can just be respectful of other peopleâ??s differences?
Everyone doesnâ??t have to believe the same thing,
God / Jehovah / Gaeya / Buddha / the great nothingâ?¦whatever.
Tolerance, respect and love are what itâ??s all about
â?? regardless of personal beliefs.
For a bunch of stoners you lot donâ??t half get your knickers in a knot.
Maybe you need to change your smoke����

Edit; stop insulting people - you're startin to piss me off

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Nice post, Lulu. I've only read this far, but all I see is people slagging eachother off. Warlok, so what if you don't believe in God? Why do you have to be insulting and offensive about it? You're not getting your point across very well, you're just looking foolish and, well, ignorant.

I don't believe in God either, but I still get on with Torog really well (at least I think... Torog? lol) because I respect his opinions and I try not to be insulting.. sometimes I fail but at least I try. Why can't you?

ermitonto, surely a a deity such as the Christian God, being omnipotent, would be able to feel those emotions if he wanted to? Surely it would be a matter of willing himself to feel them?

Torog, of course there have been times when smoking has been a spiritual experience. But spirituality comes in all forms, all shapes and sizes. You and I may have experienced the same feeling while being baked, but you interpreted it as a connection with your God, where as I interpret it as an expanding of my conscious mind. A freeing of the constraints of my consciousness which lets me percieve the world around me in a completely different way. Experiencing this doesn't make me believe in God, but it does make me believe in the importance of the world around me, because when i'm high I can truely take in it's beauty.

i try to keep it calm (even tho me and torog have seemed to have arguments about god multiple tiems before) what i've seen with my eyes, in this life.... just makes me so damned angry and doesn't make sense to me, we're all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs and should i ever insult anyone (atleast when pertaining to religion) it is not intended. i guess you could say i like to debate (i call it arguing but other grown people call it debating) alot of times i get caught up in where i'm going and end up trailing off subject and making ridiculously long posts... but i can't help it, i just get so worked up over it.

Hey I do the same, man. lol It's just people like Warlok really piss me off. I don't give a shit if you're Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever.. you shouldn't talk about other people's beliefs like that. :(

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Originally Posted by ermitonto

Yes, I do realize that the Gospels were probably based on exaggerated oral history, so we can't really attribute anything said in the Bible directly to Jesus, but when Christians want me to trust in Jesus they want me to base that trust on the material contained in the Bible (since we have virtually no other sources for information about him). Since Biblejesus predicts the Second Coming within the lifetimes of the people alive at the time, I can't trust Biblejesus, and since I have no way of knowing what Realjesus actually said (assuming he existed), I can't trust Realjesus either.

By the way, what was the evidence that Jesus didn't really preach such a quick return? It seems to me like it would be downright impossible to prove what somebody said or didn't say 2000 years ago whose life was never documented until decades after his death.

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Let me just note, for the record, everything you write I agree with. I was just putting in my own 2 cents :D Of course there's no sure way of knowing what Jesus REALLY said, but some scholars I feel do come close in that they extrapolate from events in the Gospels and suppose what could really have happened. But then again, it's still just speculation, and reading these scholars' thoughts (most of which are Christians themselves, even priests!) makes me even more firm in my belief that there is no god, ironically.

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....

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This has absolutely nothing to do with amoral relativism of the Left... Why does it always come back to that with you? Jesus did not invent morality. Morality was not born 2,000 years ago in Bethlehem. My point is that morality does not come from the Bible, but it is deeply ingrained within every human being. We all instinctively know what is right or wrong, regardless of what religion we follow. We then choose later on in life whether we will give in to our conscience or ignore it completely.

By your logic, anyone who is not Judeo-Christian is amoral. Unfortunately, I think that's what happens when you haven't been in contact with many people from different cultures (and don't mention the oil-drilling in Saudi Arabia, I already know about that :D) In Montreal, there are people literally from all over the world. My girlfriend is Chinese, and her family follows Buddhist traditions. But you would be surprised at how much we have in common in terms of values and morals, me the confirmed Italian atheist and her the non-religious Chinese Buddhist. And it's not ike that only with her.

Deep down, every human being's sense of morality is the same, each one just chooses to listen to it or ignore it. That's what I believe at least, and that's one of the reasons Christianity is not important in my life, because ultimately it's just telling me what I already know (in terms of morality of course).

yea quebec rocks

texas, and sorry if i may not be correct, seems to be a pretty closed minded, and should i add a lot racist area. only white "rednecks". and this is not directed to you torog.

i respect your beleifs and everyone's beleifs here. but i think, sorry i didnt read the whole thread, that if u think someone is "amoral" or whatever coz he doesnt beleive in any god or who knows any spiritual thing, u are the one that is amoral.

i cant say im right more than u can say you are. we are all right from our own point of view from our own world. i doesnt particularly beleive in a god, but i do beleive that our world is way more than what we, simple humans, can see.

peace

actually you got it backwards, caucasians are becoming the minority here.... and all these mexicans around me (no offense to anyone of hispanic background, i'm not racists believe me) always see a single white person and start talking shit, usually starting off by saying "punk ass white boy" it is closed minded pretty much tho, bush is a prime example of the type that come from here. oh and there's not really as many rednecks as people believe anymore.... matter of fact, i can't remember the last time i've seen a real redneck around here.

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Originally Posted by naturalmystic

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?

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Look at this way! satan more then likely played a huge hand in katrina! for example the scriptures say that in the lst days Satan will come fourth with even more power! after all Satan is the father of this world!...........But Christ can also be seen through all of this! for example look at all of the passion calls gone out across the world!,love is breaking through all of the darkness,God doesn't make these things happen he allows them to happen!...

maybe it's a lesson for people in general or perhaps a sign in the making,or a huge passion call to humble man before God!..............I don't blame God for any of it! thats why the Lord says hold fast to me and don't let go! don't be one of the 5 virgins who let their lamps go out becauses you never know when the Lord may come for you!.............Death doesn't really matter! to the Lord what matters to him is what you did with your life when you had it!..................because if you held to Christ through it all youl'l never taste death you may die in a storm or flood or war or what ever! but if your with Christ in your heart when you die! you actually don't taste death you continue to enter into Christ's love!..............."Lord tell us when will the end come"...Jesus says" You look for the end but have you found the beginning?" you see the beginning is where the3 end is too! but you can't find the end until you have found the beginning!................Christ is the beginning to a never ending end! the cycle of Love continue's..............

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Originally Posted by Mellow Man

after all Satan is the father of this world

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really....... i thought the bible says god created the heavens and the earth, and man in his own image.... so explain how what you say makes sense: satan is the father of this world, but god made it

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Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho

really....... i thought the bible says god created the heavens and the earth, and man in his own image.... so explain how what you say makes sense: satan is the father of this world, but god made it

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This world became sin when eve and adam fell from grace!...the world was made by God but satan rules it!.............but only for a time and that time is almost up! then satan will be once again bound!...

Why would God allow Satan to rule the Earth? Isn't God supposed to be good and all-powerful? You can't be good and all-powerful AND let the epitome of evil rule the Earth. Those two things just don't go together. You have this wonderful organ between your ears called a brain, and you might want to fire it up sometime.

i agree, as i hammer harder and harder to show how i see things, your excuses for your god become, well can't think of a better word so i'll go with this: they become more and more stupid. now you don't even sound like a normal christian trying to convert everyone to your religion like god is cable and all else is satalite, now you just sound like one of those lunatics standing on corners yelling at everyone the end is near (which can probably be dated back past european civilization moving to NA if i really looked hard enough) these people say the world will end in a relatively short ammount of time (lets say 100 years, just as the max.. but it's usually saying the world will end within the next year). now if these people have been 'warning' us for atleast 500 years the world will end within the next 100..yea you see where i'm going with this.


nothing lasts forever, and the world will end eventually yes, but there is no magical man that is going to make it happen, nor will another magical man come to take all the 'repented' and 'forgiven' souls to heaven while the rest suffer. the world will end, it's not a matter of prophecy or god's will, it's just matter of facts.

heres a simple answer

if god is all, how can satan exist, coz that would mean satan is god

now to anybody christian here stop fuckin sayin oh god made it when a good thing happened and oh its satan's fault if something bad happened

this is just stupid. it happened because the earth is fucked up with all the pollution and all the natural circumstances.

I remember when Satan was an angel. He still has a little bit of good in him, don't ya think?

i think th is is bullsh*t

What is?

Bullshit is the same as your shit. Just smells nastier.

Perhapse god just loves reading threads about people debating his works.

beachguy, i said that this story that satan was an angel

i always asked myself how those stories came to us. i mean one day "god" decided to tell a guy that satan used to be an angel or wut. and i knew u were jking, but still some ppl really beleive this

all those stores are pure invention and i cant beleive how everyone can rely on them, using those "stories" like arguments

The very existence of a place called "Hell" is absurd. According to Christians, Satan is just a tool God uses to eternally punish the people who go against his rules. We all know this, Satan is just another cog in God's big universal system of judgment, supposedly. When God doesn't like your soul, he sends it down to Satan to deal with it instead of showing some sort of compassion or forgiveness or those other properties God is supposed to have. Once you die, the whole Christian principle of forgiveness goes out the window, and you can never be forgiven ever again, no matter how much you try to change your ways in Hell. So what good is this eternal punishment system doing anybody? If you ask me, if this were really the way the universe works, God would be the most heinous creature in the entire universe. I mean, damning people to eternal torture is worse than genocide. Some compassionate, forgiving God that is.

ill translate: christianism is contradictive

if you look at the universe from the big angle, not just looking out from earth. we are a dot on an infentesimal plain, spinning and whirlling just like evry other thing in the universe. life as we know it didn't start billions of years ago, thats just where the earth came into play. religion is just a belife that there is some creator watching over us to give us guidelines for life. there is nothing wrong with praying, to your respectfull deity. but it's kind of silly waging a war over somthing that DOES NOT EXSIST! and the wars waged in their names are the most horrific in our history. yes fallow the teachings of christ, learn from budda, and alah, take it all in as life lessons and live how YOU want. god gave us free will for a reason....... use it.

sorry if i missspelled anybody's diety, i mean no disrespect, i am however stoned.

mellow, this is all your argument seems to consist of;

"christianity is a load of fucking shit, it's wrong, i'm right, how can you be so dumb? fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck".

Try arguing your case instead of looking like some pissed off 12 year old, or nobody is actually going to listen to you.

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Originally Posted by mellow mood

all those stores are pure invention and i cant beleive how everyone can rely on them, using those "stories" like arguments

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Just for the record, the past is the past, the angels are angels, and God is whatever, or whoever, you want it/him to be.

People go their whole lives and die. Do they ever tell anybody about their experiences? I wish I could talk to the dead.

You can talk to the dead. But since their brains and bodies have decomposed they no longer have the capacity to form thoughts and respond to you.

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Originally Posted by naturalmystic

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?

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in christianity God's son is Jesus. now all parents love their children, and that's a big bond. he let his son die a fucking brutal death because it served another purpose...

Not only is Jesus the son of God! he is God as well!.........Jesus said the greatest act of Love is to lay your life down for another! and if Jesus was only the son would have meant he did the greatest act by allowing himself to die for us!...Of course Jesus wouldn't try to top his father infact he was always equal to the father! but stuill humbled himself......so when Jesus died God actually died! through him!.if people are confused in Jesus and the father both ebing God at the sametime doesn't make sense....but look at it this way picture for example god took a piece of himself and planted it on earth.it now becomes Jesus but yet is still the father! I am in the father and the Father is in me!.................So in actual fact God died that day or a part of him ...keep believing...............

Whoa man, what are you on? Oh yeah, Christianity, I forgot.

you just gave me a major headache, you are so fuckin retarded 'not only is jesus god's sun but he is god!' he cannot be his own son! i don't care how all mighty and powerful you are, he wouldn't be his son, he'd be himself put into a human body!

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(New DARE message) Avoid christianity effects are similar to heavy Meth use and sometimes salvia like babbling may occur.

i think there's a reason most hardcore christians in the church see smoking pot as evil, because it makes the ppl that get into it in the church all crazy and narrow-minded and talk even more beligerent bullshit. open up ppl, it's ok to question things that you believe.

Pot makes people narrow-minded??? You really are a moron. The Church don't like pot because it makes people (well, most people, anyway) wake up and see all the bullshit that lies at the very core of the Christian belief system.

Pot smokers are way mmore open minded than any church goer, believe you me.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

Pot makes people narrow-minded???

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Can't you tell???

I guess all that pot I've been smoking made me too narrow-minded to realize it... :D

Saying that 'pot makes you narrow-minded' is the same thing as saying that everyone smokes pot to get high.

Stereotypinalizationalities.

"Stereotypinalizationalities"

Best word ever.