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If you look at the plane the only story that can work is that the plane skidded on the ground. It's not possible with a perfectly neat lawn right in front of the hole. Also note that Pop. Mech. never stated the truth that the crash conveniently happened in a closed down section of the pentagon where access was restricted. if that's not important why didnt they mention that fact in with there scenario?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Umm...ok, I'll bite. Why would they mention it if it wasn't important? It's not important, it's a fortuitous coincidence and it has no bearing on anything related to the crash, so why mention it?Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
Yeh why not? If you're out to debunk all the mysteries why wouldnt you giveQuote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
a background on what it looked like BEFORE the crash not just info on what
it should look like AFTER one. If they gave the whole scenario then people
can envision. Ive read the magazine before and they give background
scenarios all the time. conveniently though, the biggest disaster in U.S.
security and history just got the quick go-round. That isnt odd to you? Think
outside the box and you'll find that you cant swallow whatever the
government OR they're grant funded Popular Mechanics
tells you to. lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Some moderator you are..
And what's the story behind the "us humans care if others are killed" quote. Are you implying that nicholass doesn't care that people died? I think you are being exceptionally narrow-minded towards him. I sat here reading each post on this thread, which starts out with an innocent contradiction of the popular belief of a jet hitting the pentegon. I watched as more and more people threw out his 'opinion.' Nowhere in this thread did I get a negative tone from nicholass and his posts. The only negativity I found was from our very own moderator. Sure, you have the right to not agree with people's opinions, but namecalling is unacceptable for a moderator. Not to mention it's childish. No one has answered my question however. Two jets crashed in New York, one supposidly hit the pentagon and one went down in pennsylvania or somewhere. If what hit the pentagon was in fact hit by a missile, then what happened to the jet that was thought to have crashed into the pentagon?
What's that got to do with the price of rice? I'm allowed to express my opinion, just like any other member.Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalmystic
No, I'm not impying anything, nor was I addressing nicholas. I was addressing this comment:Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalmystic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite
Not very well, apparently. I instigated no negativity towards anyone, but was responding to negative comemnts directed at me. Can you see that now?Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalmystic
One thing to say, the twin towers walls where every bit as strong as concrete, in fact maybe stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
I cut many a beam after those towers went down, Beams that were made of 3 inch thick flat stock welded into a square and tied together every 15 inches or so to the next with a 3 inch thick steel collar that wrapped around the building.
Those planes hit the towers in the 90's. The engine from one landed on a car next to a very good freind of mine and blew him into a grocery store doorway.
Literally exploded next to him on the car.
My point..... there would be wreckage, there would be engines, there would be seats, there would be bodies, and there would have been a much larger burn pattern if all that jet fuel came spilling out of the wings and such.
If an engine can smash and explode a car 6 blocks from the towers, After flying threw two outer walls of a tower, threw inner walls furniture, cubicles, people. and scare the shit outta my friend for life......Well I have to believe I would atleast see an engine instead of aluminum bits.
Peace.
You have to understand that the Pentagon is puposefully hardened against attack. It has very thick steel-reinforced concrete walls, blast windows and is built like the proverbial brick shithouse. The Towers could never have been built like taht and still stood as tall as they did. Steel-frame skyscrapers are pretty open structures, under the cladding. The pentagon was designed to survive nearly any conceivable conventional bombing attack. This is why so little was left of the plane, and why the damage appeared to be much less than that at the Towers.
um, just so you know my uncle larry worked at the pentagon and was in the opposite side of the building when the plane crashed, he said there was alot of wreckage and singed papers and stuff all over and it even knocked over his coffee, and a plane did hit the building because one of the people on that plane specifically died and i read his obituary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
I dont buy it, you never see footage of this, around 9/11 every year you see plenty of the planes flying into the twin towers and then them falling. You then here about the heroic fight on the plane that went down in PA.
You dont ever here shit about the pentagon, or see footage of it. I am sure with all the cameras that big brother has out there, they have footage of what hit the pentagon. Arent the families of the victims worth even a mention for prayer?... nothin??
You all do know they have drone planes that they fly over enemy targets and such to detect for SAM's and such. I have heard from a friend of mine that they can use these to carry small amounts of explosives as well.
Remotetly piloted and very manuverable. NOT A TOY.
These are about the size of a Cesna, maybe a bit bigger.
Heres where they are headed with this stuff...
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...nes-106410.php
Dont try to tell me that what happened there is on the level, and what they tell us happened.
Youre right about the surveillance. The pentagon is one of the most videoed buildings in the united states even more so than fort knox. And like i mentioned before, the plane crashed into a closed down section. that was their mistake. If it was a closed down section with no occupancy or any equipment then why cant the photos be released? in fact it was being renovated which means nothing would have looked the same anyway.
the initial pictures after whatever hit that building, shows a relatively small hole, compared to the wreckage you'd think a giant plane would have left behind. nothing at all where the wings and engines would have hit...and smaller than the body of the plane itself, with no damage to the lawn...
it's amazing. every attack turns physics on its head, but that's just the way it is. a couple small fires will make modern steel buildings collapse and completely melt massive steel columns up and down a building even though the fires weren't nearly hot enough to even turn the steel red hot, just shutup and believe it.
I saw a video (possibly on prisonplanet.com) where there were actual small explosions that went off when the second jet hit the second building.
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/...explosives.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...reevidence.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...blecharges.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/070903wtcanomolies.html
(shot down in pennsylvania) http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...04flight93.htm
the building 7 one is the best...the third one down...that building was clearly a controlled demolition...it was just magically all loaded with explosives ready to blow up at the push of a button...and 9/11 was used as the reason it came down...
i've seen videos of many controlled demolitions, and building 7 is one of the best i've seen.
oh well...
This is easily the stupidest thing I have ever read regarding the events of 9/11. Congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
dude, it wasn't a 757. If you look at the video, its clearly not a plain, nor a missile, but a MILK TRUCK. ~silence~ That is right!! A milk truck with a jet engine attacked the pentagon!!!! That wreckage photo? FAKE the milk truck was painted to look like a jet.
yocass, I dunno what that is in your avator, but i really like looking at it. I dont know if i want to bite it or something. Maybe play with it in my hands. who knows?
that is easily the most ignorant thing i have ever read regarding the events of 9/11. congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
the owner, larry silverstein, admitted in a pbs documentary that they decided to pull the building...reporters were told to get away because the building was going to come down...police told people on the street to get away because the building was coming down...
if you've ever actually seen the collapse of building 7...it's absolutely perfect. but i forgot, no plane hit it, and a few small fires made a steel building collapse. that's normal.
its peyote natural. But pisshead... that doesnt explain the milk truck theory though, does it.
Yes, but you said he had decided to pull the building down BEFORE 9/11 and used the 9/11 attacks as the excuse. He did not. He only admitted to asking the FDNY to pull down the building after it had caught fire after the crashes. It was NOT wired up to blow before the attack. At least get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
...i said the building had to have been loaded with explosives before 9/11 in order to pull it on 9/11...
you can't set that up in 8 hours...it was only on fire for a few hours, and the building was in no danger of collapsing. steel buildings can burn for days and not collapse.
it obviously wasn't wired for collapse that day.
you can't decide...hmmm, i'm going to blow up my building today, it can take weeks...it contradicts the feds' official conspiracy theory of fire made it fall.
Sure you can. Especially with a building that's already mostly gutted by fire. The part that takes the most time is the permits and clearance - but this is not necessary in an emergency. The FDNY made the final decision to blow the building, since they believed it was a danger. Whether it was or not is immaterial at this point. Someone had to make the decision on the fly, and they did.
the building wasn't gutted by fire...not even close.
firefighters who were there are on the record saying the building wasn't a threat...it was only a few small fires...
pictures of the building show that.
and wouldn't there have been a whole scene full of people getting this building ready to come down in just a few hours? the process takes much longer than that.
unless you have documentation saying the building was wired that day to be brought down...
Beeblebrox where IS your head? Have you even SEEN what building 7 looked like? It was a perfectly fine building with a fire that looks like a regular one! No explosions and nothing hit it! It was the furthest building away and wasnt hit by anything! Building 7 was in danger of collapsing!???!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
I dont care what you say about the towers pentagon or whatever but how can you NOT look at building 7 and say that was bullshit? honestly?
Nah, a crew of 9 or 10 guys can wire up and bring down a building that size within 8 hours easily, in a pinch. I've known some demo guys and they could definitely have pulled it off. Besides, in order to blow a building, walls, floors and ceilings have to be opened to expose beams and support members to attach the shaped charges to. A fairly considerable amount of internal demolition work must be accomplished manually prior to setting the explosives. There would have been some evidence of this type of work in the days preceeding the explosion, if your theory were to be correct.
I'm not a fire investigator nor a structural engineer. Are you? No? Ok, then. In that case, you're only talking out of your ass. Buildings can LOOK fine, yet be in imminent danger of collapse.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
there have been raging infernos in modern steel buildings that last for days...and the buildings don't collapse...but the feds want you to believe fire made it collapse in a perfectly symettrical fashion.
building 7 was in no danger of collapse...it's absurd to say it was. a 47 story reinforced steel building...no way it was going to collapse from a few fires.
and you don't just call up 9 or 10 guys to blow up your 47 story building in the middle of many other buildings...you call in controlled demolition or another giant company that does that stuff.
this is stuff that's on the history channel and discovery channel...you can't do that in a mere few hours.
Yes, that's the normal process. I am aware of what's involved. In an emergency situation, however, it can be accomplished much more quickly. It only takes a few hundred pounds of HE - usually PETN or a similar material - to bring down a building of that size. Shaped charges cut steel support members, while larger charges are loaded into concrete load-bearing structures. Properly timed, these charges pancake the building down on itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
unless u were there ya know squat.
bottomline
Yep, that's about the size of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigZagZeppelin
The plane, Pan AM , going to Europe, that blew up, in a big fire ball, over the ocean was 92% recoverd and reassembled in a hanger in Long Island. If a plane , with that happening to it , can be found, under water spred over MILES of ocean. How come there is no substancial wreckage from an inpact into a building???? The one over water BLEW up , the pentagon was a crash. Don't give me the fire crap, Jet fuel burns at 1400 degrees, not enought heat to "melt" ALL of a jet 747/757. Where's the wreckage??? A few parts?? Bull. I , for one don't believe all the lies our government tells, a little common sense with a little knowledge and an open mind can easily see the fabracation. No disrespect to anyone who lost thier lives in these tragedys, the disrespect comes from the people who tells lies.
peace
heart
I dare anyone to show a link to a pictures showing a 747/757 wreckage at the pentagon, there is none!!! There are pictures of the partically reassembled jets that hit the twin towers.
Time to revolt!!!!
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/..._evidence.html
Besides, no one's explained how multiple civilian witnesses claim to have seen the plane crash. I suppose the government paid them all off? :rolleyes:
wont do anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
like what?what the hell have u done.
you spread bullshit about some big bad goverment and make me defend them
get it right,i dont like that.i love america
its not perfect but i tell ya simply
people got on a plane,it got highkacked it crashed into a REINFORCED structure called the pentagon and they died there
scrare crows huh, dont ya see how fucking Far fetched that one is
now dont MUCK the water,,GET a REAL Issue and we can go from there
but some MADE up crap like They blew up the towers and bombed the pentagon is just like the most fucked up shit i ever heard
CAN WE SAY PARANIOD??
it happened Lil kids lost parents and i be damned if i let you say your defending my rights,when u say crap like that
your fucking wanting to say i do nothing about it like your a hero
well whoopity doo
pat yourself on tha back ,have a fucking cookie
just shut the fuck up with LIES and crap
and it being on some website somewhere DONT Make it true
does it
rational thought says I know what i saw and i know i didnt
i also know that it is not possible to keep people quiet about it
if they set that up,people would have saved evidence to back up what they say ,and it would have leaked ,AND DO SAY IT HAS CUASE SOME ANTIBUSH CREW DECIDED TO FLAME HIM THAT WAY,
nobody wired up them places to blow up
AND
about that no debri,?
wtf,plenty of debri ,did ya not see the live coverage?
comparing what one engine did hitting one place,dont mean shit
angles & volocitys and hardness of materials ,
PLANES DID IT.and i need no degree to see that
when metals meet at high speeds its just a fucking mess
even my yokel ass can understand that
what ya expect it do stay in a neat assortment,someone mentioned that plane in the water being put back together,
well yea it hit the water and stopped,did not grind into a solid mass of concrete and steel made to PROTECT THE MILITARY INSIDE it
but yaw make me feel very smart,
so thank you
It's sad really. You're so indoctrined that you don't even believe in your ownQuote:
Originally Posted by NowhereMan
common sense any more. Well...before I dismantle your rather weak
arguement I'd like to say that at work (in an internet cafe') i always discuss
political issues with customers while I let the Alex Jones show play. I've had
dozens of people agree with me and i've had a few call me an asshole. at the
end of the day there are people that ive woken up. i might not shout into a
bullhorn during a demonstration but at least i can get a few people to think
outside of what theyve been force-fed by the media.
The same media that told you a plane crashed at the pentagon. Okay so where is it? Where's the plane? Have you ever even bothered to read the witness testimonies? Most of the official ones are from foreign immigrants working labour and government workers...GOVERNMENT workers. There were many many caucasians in all the photos but foreign immigrants give the witness reports to congress.
You're so busy telling me and other "conspiracy nuts" that our ideas are stupid but you cant account for any of our concerns genuinely. We're here asking for pictures of the plane but we're assholes because the gov. wont let us see them? Even Popular Mechanics can't give a good story without it being full of holes.
People died that day. We all know that. How they died is a mystery. It's a mystery because there are no photos/ Why wouldnt there be photos? Why did the FBI go to all the booths and stores in the area and confiscate their surveillance within 40 mins? That seems mighty quick considering an attack occurred at the pentagon.
I notice that you were o busy blindly following government that you never even bothered to read the eyewitness testimony of a woman who said she saw pieces of the nose from the aircraft. But supposedly the plane disintegrated according to popular mechanics. it amazes me how the plane can be disintegrated but the nose gear didnt...the first part of the plane to hit. and this wasnt at-the-time. this was after the crash as in the next couple days during excavation. But we're just idiots right?
The government knew about pearl harbour 12 days before the attacks. they let it happen for people to rally for war without question. It's a matter of complete public record. 60 years ago the government lied and let people die to engage in a world war. But i guess since cnn doesnt do an expose on it every anniversary means it never happened. You wont even bother to try and look it up with a simple google search will you? its okay. it never happened if you don't care. the government was totally different 60 years ago. they never would have been behind something as totally similar and manipulatively parallel as this right?
Kids did lose their parents. The government saw to that. Don't worry though. Congress has confirmed that at least 500,000 troops will be needed to keep up the war situation. Can you feel the breeze of a draft? alot more kids wont be with mommy or daddy for christmas but that's okay. As long as we get those towel heads right? Don't let the gov. that the U.S> installed tell us to leave like they did two days ago calling for a troop withdrawla timetable that bush refuses to set forth. As long as the oil flows...
I'm sorry you hate the idea of a guy that disagrees with you fighting for your liberties but hey it's alright. I'll still fight even if you shot at me yourself. I want liberty and freedom for all. Liberty and freedom is to be taught...not forced illegally in a corrupt war seeking oil imperialism.
Yeh you're right i guess. Larry Silverstein (thats the owner) said in an interview that they decided to demolish the building. I guess the original idea was to blow it up but the feds changed their minds and it collapsed on its own anyway. You accuse me of spreading lies but you dont object to the lies being told right to your face.Quote:
nobody wired up them places to blow up
What's wrong with you? You fight the people who want to make the country better and applaud those that wish to rape it... i guess the definitions for "terrorism" and "treason" mustve been changed around just like the physics of 9/11.
P.S. I hope that if i fall in the coming war you will have woken up enough to save the freedoms of whoever's left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Why do you keep showing that same photo that has wreckage that was obviously planted by the feds? Youre the one who said the plane is made of aluminum. if it exploded enough to be twisted like that then why isnt it even singed or blackened by smoke residue? oh well... the law of physics and reality dont matter where 9/11 is concerned i guess.
Planes don't explode when they crash. That's pure grade-A Hollywood bullshit. And that's NOT the only photo on that site. In any case, that part you see is from the rear of the plane, and was most likely torn off when the plane bounced off the Pentagon lawn prior to impacting the building. Notice how far it is from the building itself. This being the case, I would not expect this part to show any signs of fire damage. You speak of physics and reality, but clearly, you have no grasp of either.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
So, tell me. If it wasn't a plane that struck the Pentagon, then what happened to American Airlines Flight 77 and the people who were on it and are now clearly missing?
Exactly. Grade A Bullshit. Now we're getting somewhere. I point out how it's impossible the plane exploded and disintegrated. You tell me it's bullshit. My original claim in the first place. So since it didnt explode where are the pieces?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
And Im glad you noticed the distance. The plane crashed and went forward...DIDNT explode as you said but yet a piece went backwards onto the lawn that didnt show anything on it. It may have been dragged out and lain on the lawn when the cleanup crew came but only one piece conveniently displayed for a photo op?
So which one is it...Pm's version of the plane disintegrating or abovetopsecret's version of the wreckage that appears out of nowhere...?
I dont know what hit the pentagon and i dont know where flight 77 is. That's what I want to know. Without pictures or testimonies that actually corroborate with one another that's mighty hard. You can't give any feasible reason why photos arent released aside from what the feds hand-picked for us.
Listen to your own words man. They would have saved evidence. They didn't. TheQuote:
if they set that up,people would have saved evidence to back up what they say ,and it would have leaked ,AND DO SAY IT HAS CUASE SOME ANTIBUSH CREW DECIDED TO FLAME HIM THAT WAY,
biggest attack on american sovereignty ever and they carted all the evidence away
and SOLD it to foreign nations under a strict confidentiality agreement within one
week. Of course it makes perfect sense.
doesnt matter to you because Bush explained it in nice easy words...terrorists.
told you.
It would leak you say? I guess the hundreds of reports from experts stating that the
story is bogus doesnt count. Whats-his-name who was on the bush cabinet stating
that 9/11 was impossible to carry out without the help of some kind of military
complex doesnt count either. Do you need bush to sign an affidavit for you?
And as for the anti-bush movement. I don't see any way they could possibly
have anything to use against him. I mean he certainly doesnt make HIMSELF to look
like an idiotic despot. I guess I know where you're vote is going when they introdice
the bill that can allow bush another term in office...indefinitley. As long as america
is at war. America's been in a veritable state of war since the Jap-American war
before ww1. Bush won't have any trouble getting nice and comfy in office and that
suits you just fine, right?
God, I love Bush. and yes virginia, theres is a santa clause.
The same type of jet a 727 crashed a few weeks later [after 9/11] in brooklyn. it crashed, blew up and hit buildings. There are hundreds of photos of this showing jet parts everywhere. Yet no pictures of the suposed jet that hit the pentagon. WHY? Show me a link with pictures of the pentagon with jet debris. You can't, no one can. Don't you want to know why? Do you believe our government is telling the truth?
Also , water landings, pilots are taught , if possible , not to land on water, water is a harder surface to land on. The flight that blew up over water TOTALLY destroyed that jet , yet they managed to get over 90% of it and rebuild it. I don't see that from the pentagon {suposed} jet. The FAA is suposed to reconstruct ALL air accidents, noy done at the pentagon. WHY???
I like these intelligent discussions, but calling others names just weakens your points. SHOW me a picture of jet debris at the pentagon, i'm waiting. remember jet fuel only burns at 1400 degrees, not hot enough to melt ALL of a 747/757. There'd still be tons and tons of pieces left. Yet no pictures, I can see some just follow and believe anything our government tell us. I want to believe , but i need proof, and so far i haven't seen any. This government can fabricate and cover up ANY thing they want to. they've done it many , many times before. Can you say fabricated info on weapons of mass destruction to go to war.
peace
heart
now try not to sware, show me the pictures