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I understand Afghanistan and Kuwait. Agree that untilmately the world is a better place without Saddam but don't really think many of the people there really dig Bush given the current state of things. Time will tell...Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
But why would the people of the Ukraine or Poland support the republicans? Did I miss something while I was blazing one day?
not republicans,bush.because he is spreading democracy and people who have actually lived under communism can appreciate that.
i believe the 8 and a half million iraqis who voted pledged their support for democracy.how do people forget that fast.jan 2 was a day i will never forget.after listening for months how it wasnt possible to hold elections,or it was too dangerous.watching those people vote was one of the most incredible things i have ever seen.
What the fuck? You made absolutely no sense just then. I'm baffled!Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
I'm not trying to put you down, I literally didn't get a fucking word of that. :p
there are millions of gun owners in this country and guns are used for protection far more than they are used to harm someone intentionally or accidentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by del...
* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every yearâ??or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"â??a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.4* Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nationâ??s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."5* Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. Thatâ??s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.6* More guns, less crime. In the decade of the 1990s, the number of guns in this country increased by roughly 40 millionâ??even while the murder rate decreased by almost 40% percent.7 Accidental gun deaths in the home decreased by almost 40 percent as well.8* CDC admits there is no evidence that gun control reduces crime. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has long been criticized for propagating questionable studies which gun control organizations have used in defense of their cause. But after analyzing 51 studies in 2003, the CDC concluded that the "evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these [firearms] laws."9* Gun shows are NOT a primary source of illegal guns for criminals. According to two government studies, the National Institute of Justice reported in 1997 that "less than two percent [of criminals] reported obtaining [firearms] from a gun show."10 And the Bureau of Justice Statistics revealed in 2001 that less than one percent of firearm offenders acquired their weapons at gun shows.11
that page goes on forever...
then why do you cheer on the neoconservatives and their record budgets and their gigantic growth in government, and the addition of unconstitutional legislation? they make clinton look conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
you call yourself a conservative?
no i dont call myself a conservative at all?
What do you need a gun to protect yourself from?
Oh yeah, another person with a gun.
oh i'm sorry...it was hydrizzle that called you and torog the only true conservatives on this site. i found that weird considering bush is incredibly liberal in a lot of areas.
[QUOTE=amsterdam]not republicans,bush.because he is spreading democracy and people who have actually lived under communism can appreciate that.
QUOTE]
Mmmnnn....have to disagree with you here. My wife lived under communism, most of my in laws still do, and I've had my own issues living in a communist country, but we all still think Bush is an idiot.
I find it interesting that you have the opinions that you do having lived overseas. When I lived overseas it was a complete eye opener. What I found is that most people were not ready to jump on the next boat to the U.S. and were strongly against U.S. foriegn policy. Granted, I did live in Asia, not Europe so I'm sure opinions are different there. I did live for a while, however, in an international dorm which had many European, African, and Asian students all living together and most shared the same opinion.
One thing that I did find is that most people could seperate average Americans from the U.S. Government. Almost everyone I met liked Americans, at least the younger layed back ones not the older, rich "ugly Americans", even if they did not support the government. I am wondering if you did not mistake friendliness for the average American for a general support of the U.S. and its policies?
Can someone please (likey a US Republican voter) post a 'Are you a Liberal' questionnaire on here please ? I just wanna be sure.....
it's funny...but when it comes to gun control, it should make people realize that the smaller government you have, the less unconstitutional laws you have, the better things get! go figure.
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission . . . without paying a fee . . . or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the unionâ??having three times received the "Safest State Award."31
* Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rate in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.32 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year periodâ??thus putting the Florida rate below the national average.33
* Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder.
i bet if you didn't even need permits for conceal carry, it would result in even less crime, or at least be the same.
compare that cities that have the strictest gun control laws...at least in the US, the result is obvious.
it's the same with all prohibition. it's not done because the government loves you, it creates a new, profitable market if you control the system.
the drug war is a good example. the feds create the drug war, then get into the drug business and protect their industry. we have only more drugs after the drug war, just like every other war...war on terror, war on illiteracy...they're designed to fail and create the need for a federal takeover.
the same families that own and control the banks and the prisons and the shipping companies and other giant industries profit from every plank of their corrupt system. we lose jobs to prisoners making .20 cents an hour, in jail because of the drug war and three strikes bullshit.
india and mexico and china lose jobs to people in prison.
things need to stop now before this country is broken up completely and we have UN and foreign troops running around 'peacekeeping'...
ppl need to stop asking whats wrong and ask WHATS RIGHT
You don't have to read it
I agree with smokey, take this to the politic forum... this never get anywhere, always degenrates to name-calling. Thanks for attracting all the crazies to the general forum Blue Cat *rolls eyes*
attracting all the crazies? you were here before i was and started this apparent name calling. i didn't even call anyone a name.
you might be a democrat if:
-you cant talk about foreign policy without using the word conspiracy.
-you think solar energy is being held back by those greedy oil companies.
-your high school year book goals included the words "help people"
-you actually expect to collect social security.
-you would rather own birkenstock rather than Merck stock
-you think the flat tax should be at 95%
-you admire the swedish welfare system
-you trust ted kennedy when he says she was driving
-you have ever said "we should really call the aclu about this."
-you keep count of how many people you know in each racial or ethnic category
-you believe that a few hundred loggers can find another career,but the defenseless spotted owl must live in its preferred tree.
-you think the free market is where they hand out govt. cheese.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
Ain't that the truth.... you forgot "jumps with glee every time a terrorist bombs Israel", can't forget that one. Also, "incredibly naive about the possibility of a WMD attack".
Why do you not understand? If a criminal attacks you with a gun, they clearly have the upped hand. You don't expect to be attacked right then, so you aren't ready to fight straight away are you. They are, because they know what they're doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
No mention of how successful their attempts at self-defence are...Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
That's ridiculous... that means nothing. ONE child getting killed at school by a gun is too many. Just because a load more kids die from playing sport (for some reason) it doesn't mean that 22 deaths is ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
I admit that guns aren't totally the problem. Unfortunately, it is the people. American people are, generally, far too paranoid and ignorant, and pay far too much attention to the media. Look at other countries, Britain is very similar to America is many ways, yet our murder rate is so much lower. We have almost no guns here, even the police can work safely without guns.
Right, so you, having been to Europe once or twice, know more about the situation here than we do? I don't know a single person in this country that has anything but contempt for America.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
where have you been in the states?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kombucha
Vermont's not exactly the best example Pisshead. I've been to Vermont, it aint exactly a tough place. The last I heard there wasn't a lot of turf wars between Bed & Breakfast owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Your assuming a cause and effect relationship between the concealed carry law and a drop in crime. Violent crime has pretty much dropped everywhere, not just in places that have concealed carry laws. Maybe people are just starting to use common sense. Or, maybe the violent criminals have just been killing each other off with their legally obtained guns making it safer for the rest of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Most likely the people who would care about a concealed carry law are not the ones committing crimes. I seriously doubt that someone would go out to rob a bank but leave their gun at home because it was against the law to carry a gun. Besides, ther's a lot of gators in FloridaQuote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
again, your assuming a cause & effect relationship that does not neccessarily existQuote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Most people who complain about losing jobs to so and so have little knowledge of economics. Many of these jobs are the shit jobs that no one would want to do. If they were not given to people willing, or forced, to work for a low wage they would have to be done by people who would demand a higher pay. This results in rise in price of the the product or service being produced. Soon, the people doing that work can no longer afford the product or service so they demand higher pay. Once again the prices then go up and so on and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Regarding three strikes, how is this bullshit? Should violent criminals be given unlimited chances to go out and harm others? What about the little girl would would still be alive if the three strikes law had been in place several years earlier? I guess she is less important than the rights of a sick twisted child molester. Right?
economicsQuote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
Dude, do you live on a farm surrounded by barb wire out in the middle of Idaho? I think you need to lay off the herb for a while. You're getting way to paranoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
C'mon Amsterdam, you know he probably hasn't... even if he was, do you think he visited the parts where gun violence takes place? No way, why would he? Just let me clarify Kombucha... all the gun violence, once again, is black on black in shitty-ass ghettos... and is the fault of low law enforcement budget and a genral uncaringness op ALL politicians. Its NOT because we are a land of freedom where a citizen can bear arms. I bet the stats are equal to other countries in rural/suburban areas.... not shitty ass ghettos.
Bye the way, when you say that criminals just attack you out of nowhere, firing a shot with no warning, thats bullshit. They are doing it for a reason, most likely to rob you. Most criminals with guns are dumass crackhead who could'nt hit the broad side of a barn with an M60 machnegun. So, a citizen who knows his gun and can pull and fire quickley will almost always have the upper hand.
europe is just as fucked as we are. the same people who own our shit own your shit. we're all going to be one big happy global government family one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kombucha
So why do you all need guns then, if there's no gun crime elsewhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrizzle
Thanks for that...let me see........
Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
OK, I think perhaps we can assume there are 2 meanings to the term liberal here. One is the one given at the start of this thread.
The other is 'not a Republican American'
:D ;)
The reason for the second def. is that as a UK citizen, I've no idea about the intricate dealings of the Kennedy family, generally in the UK we dont have year books, whats the ACLU? (rht), loggings not a massive industry around this island :p , and finally, I dont think solar power is held back by the oil companies. the high production and installation costs on the other hand......
You got anything a bit non-US specific?
A side benefit to the legalization of drugs would be a significant decrease in crime, crime involving guns.
not only that, it would take the money out of it...it would create competition which would likely bring the prices down...as long as there's a big supply.
so there's a big downfall to legalization on behalf of the government drug runners who also run the war on drugs.
why dont we all just drop the guns....and take three steps back.
The way I see it, and like many people have already said, is that you are stupid to wholey embrace either a conservative or liberal set of beliefs. However, if I was asked to classify myself I would undoubtedly call myself a liberal, as most of my beliefs are more liberal than anything.
I belief abortions used as contraception are wrong, but I also see that abortions are often necessary, and so I am pro-choice.
I believe gay marriage should not be a matter for the government to decide, and so I am pro-choice.
I believe that all governments are corrupt, and if not then they soon will be.
I believe that guns, if possible, should not be used, though I do not think they should be banned. However, I do believe that more gun control does equal less gun crime.
I believe that no country should launch a pre-emptive strike on any other country unless there is absolute proof that doing so will save lives.
I am against cencorship and prohibition in any form.
I am for the complete seperation of church and state.
If i'm a liberal, then I dont give a shit - i'm a liberal. However, I will not ignore or rebuke a conservative view just because it is that; a conservative view. I believe everybody should listen to every point of view with an open mind, and make the decision based on the facts, not on whether the particular opinion is too liberal or too conservative. It is because of this that people like Hydrizzle and amsterdam wreck my head, as they are too quick to dismiss something as stupid because it is different to what they think.
Isnt time that the human race grew up and realized we have no need for this stupid system of oppression we call government. Fuck conservatives, fuck Liberals, fuck politicians. Throw down our self inflicted chains and realize that we dont need rules to do the right thing. Human beings are animals and most animals get along without the need of an institutionalized system of oppression to keep us in line. lets be better than the rest of the inhabitants of our planets and care for our entire species instead of killing eachother or letting each other suffer.Free your mind!!
right on, man! thats what i want, too.. but its not gonna happen anytime soon.. people are too greedy and sefish. :(
whats wrong with greed?
I pretty much agree with that. I don't have a set of laws that I always think are right, I just do what seems right. Not necessarily what I think will be the best for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
nothing is wrong with greed until you start manipulating or harming others to acquire what you want
Quite true. however you forgot.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
-you feel the need to implement more laws on all citizens because how would they get by without the govt.
-you think that govt should regulate every aspect of our lives. exept morality, how could you ever let right and wrong influence someone's decisions.
-you beleive in free money to the poor for as long as they want. govt health care, govt housing, and govt control of busines. and yet you insist that republicans are for big business and you most certainly are not.
-you think that all minorities are downtrodden and must receive help getting into college. they really couldn't do it on their own merits (I am not being racist here. I have heard liberals say things to this effect)
-you think that wealth = evil, except yourself of course
-you believe that people have a right to illegally enter our country and
-you think that farm animals should be treated like beloved pets and really shouldn't be killed
I dunno personally I voted for this man.....
Its a free country, right??
While ironically Torog appears to be the biggest conspiracy theorist on here, just look at my signature.Quote:
you cant talk about foreign policy without using the word conspiracy
Ha ha! I like the signature! With such excessive use of commas it can be none other than everyone's favourite racist, homophobic, self-righteous Republican, Torog.
I'm gonna use that on MSN I think.
Where's Blue Cat she started this shit fight.......
Sorry, BlueCat.. I just realised that nobody has actually answered your question.
The answer is: Nothing is wrong with being a liberal. :)
Not doing well today...I will get back to you...but heres a little to chew on...
The history channel had a great show on the truth about Lincoln the other night ...you should look for a repeat....Oh and BTW those same Iraqi women you "allowed" to vote as if that is our job to do....you guys always avoid the fact that your reason for invasion was WMD that did not exist...but tell a lie enough times....anyway those same women are throwing rocks and cocktails at the Army doctors and nurse vechicles as they go from one spot to the next...yelling GET OUT AMERICANS! One soldier got his legs almost blow off today...the armour saved him but he is still a mess. Just got that report first hand...THEY the IRAQI men and women want us out and the soldiers want to leave...so its not rocket science....a 2nd grader could figure out what to do next...
And please don't stand around waving your flag unless your willing to stand in the line of fire...
heres a little about your beloved republican.....
Many people believe that even in the darkest days of the Civil War Lincoln was steadfast in his resolve to free the slaves. Nothing can be farther from the truth. He had slaves and was known to use racial slurs a lot...
Lincoln was walking a political tight rope. He had to keep his powerful abolitionist supporters happy, but was fearful of losing the support of the loyal border states whose economy was still based on slavery. His real resolve was to win the war. He had to balance the support of those who wished to destroy the South with those who were increasingly alarmed by the bloodshed and looked to comprise as a solution to ending the war.
The biggest myth about Lincoln was that he freed all the slaves. Actually Lincoln never did free all the slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation only proclaimed the slaves in all territories held by the Confederates free, but didn't free any of the slaves in the North. It also did not apply to the border states and their 300,000 slaves. It was just a political move to get support in Europe and to encourage the slaves to rebel and cause trouble in the South.
Later Cat