well whatever the fuckin constitution says,i know there is something about sparation of church and state somewhere
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well whatever the fuckin constitution says,i know there is something about sparation of church and state somewhere
thats what the first amendment begins with?
"congress shall make no law respecting a certain religon,or prohibiting the free exercise therof,or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press,or the right of the people to assemble,and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
how does it not say that>?
i think i'm gonna stick with the psychotropics forum,less arguing there,lol
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Let's analyse this. Shall we?
"Congress (our legislature) shall make no law (rule) respecting (dealing with) an establishment of religion (an organized religious movement)..."
Our legislature shall make no rule dealing with an organized religious movement. Hands off policy. Laissez faire. Look, but don't touch. Government is not involved.
for the federal government,not the state.
I don't think you understand Constitutional law.
The Constitution says explicitly in the 1st Amendment that that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." It also states in the 10th Amendment that "...powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
In other words, the 10th says that if the Constition fails to mention something that comes up later, it's up for states to decide. But since with the 1st, the Constitution washes the government's hands of religion, the states have no rights to those powers.
Feel me?
I feel that.
i am not here debating this,more like asking.i was not sure and have been reading this paper on the constitution by danesh d'zouza.
Howdy bhall,
You lament :"God, that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm just tired of writing about it. But I don't think any Republican should dare knock the conditions of public schools. Their deterioration, and that of our kids' educations, are entirely your fault. If you choke something long enough, which is what Reagan started, it's going to die. "
Yup..yer right,us conservatives are responsible for the current state of our education system,because we allowed liberal educators,to take over the schools and colleges..and now our schools and colleges are so infested with liberals,we may never get them out.
As for Reagan,are you referring to the 'choking' of communism ? Thank God for Reagan,he 'choked' communism to death and brought down the Berlin Wall. He restored pride and moral,in our military,which had been laid waste to,by Carter and the dim's..yup,thank God for Reagan :)
Have a good one ....
wtf is that values pic about? filth? what are you alluding to that is filth in that pic?
and as for
:rolleyes: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Torog
tinfoil hat alert!!!!!!
i would not go that far,but liberal thinking is screwing with our kids in schoool.
look at the aclu filing suit on school districts that allow dodgeball,or using red ink to grade papers.its scary.we are raising a pussy generation.
"...allowed liberal educators to take over the schools..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
"...our schools and colleges are so infested with liberals..."
Notice the language.
Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. This is what happens when you approach issues from an ideological standpoint rather than one based on history and fact. Not only do you end up totally wrong but you look like a damn fool along the way (that goes for liberals who do the same thing too).
Let's have this debate, Torog, when you have command of the facts rather than what you hear on the radio and TV.
I know that Reagan is the second coming of Christ for conservatives and Republicans, but come on. Get real. That's just a joke, based on conservative lore passed down like it was a bedtime story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
First off, if you want to give Reagan credit for the "choking of communism," allow me to direct your attention to China and North Korea. Remember them? Two communist countries, one the second largest in the world and the other a rogue state building nuclear weapons, are still standing.
Second, if you're going to give credit for the Soviet Union's fall to a man, rather than the universally accepted reason (it fell under its own weight; communism is an idea destined to fail because of human nature, which is why China is moving towards a more capitalistic society), then you need to give much more credit to Pope John Paul II, whose actions carried significantly more weight in Eastern Europe than Reagan could dream of. Reagan just liked to talk about it and look good, which is basically his entire presidency in a nutshell.
And honestly, why couldn't this debate remain about education? Why bring up communism at all? This is why things never get done.
I know it's damn hard for a conservative to make sense of education because historically, you people have sucked at it. But come at me with facts rather than rhetoric. Try to prove a valid point.
Howdy bhall,
You state: " Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. This is what happens when you approach issues from an ideological standpoint rather than one based on history and fact. Not only do you end up totally wrong but you look like a damn fool along the way (that goes for liberals who do the same thing too). "
So..does this mean that you think that there are no liberals in the education system ?
At least under conservatives,children graduated being able to read,write and do math..under liberals,that no longer matters..being politically-correct,is all that matters to them now.
Have a good one ...
being politically correct or not letting anyone get their feelings hurt.
Wow, thats really ironic, i scored top 5% in math in my state, and top 10% in english. Thats more than GW can say, his dumb ass had a C avg in college. I couldnt even get a C if i wanted to, but yet, im still the dumb one huh? You didnt even attempt to answer bhall's post, because you have no answer. You know nothing, and you just proved it by completely changing subjects and trying to attack liberals once again. If anything, republicans are the ones that only care about political correctness. Plus, im getting an academic scholarship, also more than you, and GW could say, but yet im still the dumb one? Republicans base their arguments on attacking liberals, mainly because their policies are shit, and everyone knows it, except obviously the republicans. Money and power is republicans main concern, but they cant seem to help the economy, or conclude the war in iraq, seems like their waiting for a liberal to come and fix it, like we always do. Then once we do fix it, theyll go on the attack once again. So, because of MY accomplishments academically, i can conclude that it is republicans that arent in the education system!Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
Bottom line, folks, is that both the liberals and concervatives are to blame. Each group is so fucking hell bent on saying they're right and the other is wrong that they go to extremes. The correct path is not to the far right or far left but down the middle.
Me personally, I'm an aethiest, but if a little girl wants to sing a song about god in a school talent show let her. How the hell does it hurt me? It's like the jackass out here in California who was suing to have the words "under god" removed from the pledge of allegience. Shit, it never bothered me while I was in school. I just didn't say those words. So what if everybody else did?
One the other hand, there's the concervatives who bitch and moan every Halloween when little kids dress up and have their school Halloween parties. "It's a holiday celebrating the devil...blah, blah, blah" Go fuck yourselves. I seriously doubt any of these kids are trying to conjure Satan. It's called fun you religious jackasses.
Come on everybody, why can't we do what is right. Just think what we could do if we put all the money that is pouring into the war in Iraq into our schools. And what if we raised the standards, failed kids who needed to fail , and made sure that every kid who gets a high school diploma actually deserved it. I know it will never happen but I can dream, can't I?
Why do you always miss the point, man? I ask this sincerely. Are you really so stuck in your own ideology that you can't even recognize anything else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
Does it matter if there are liberals in the education system? Does it matter if there are conservatives? You're never going to have a fully one-sided education system. Ever. And I don't give a rip either way and neither should you, just so long as kids come out properly educated. Just as an aside, it might help attract more Republican teachers if you paid teachers a better salary.
The point is that Republicans and conservatives don't know how to run a system of education, no matter who is in it.
For whatever reason, conservatives seem to think that cutting off funding is the only way to make education better. The only proposals and laws regarding education coming from Republicans have been budget reductions. Hell, Reagan tried to eliminate the cabinet-level Department of Education and W hasn't funded his campaign promise of No Child Left Behind. You guys see failing test scores and failing schools and immediately move to reduce funds, saying, "We're wasting money." That's NOT how it works and has been proven by the fact that test scores fall more often under Republicans than under Democrats. That's a fact.
The schools that are failing are failing because they are underfunded and left to fall apart. The kids that are failing are failing because not enough resources are being spent on them; many inner city students don't even have their own textbooks. It has nothing to do with a teacher's liberal or conservative ideology.
Come on, you should know this. Any time something in the military isn't working right, you guys just throw money at it like it grows on trees. And nine out of ten times, it SOLVES THE PROBLEM.
I know that it can be said that liberals just want to spend and spend and spend. And that argument can be valid at times. But seriously, doesn't it make sense to put kids in schools with decent computers, the Internet, music classes, art classes, PE classes, science labs and textbooks for everyone? Depending on where you live, most kids don't have those things in their school. Some don't even have a real classroom. And so often when we talk about failing students and failing schools around the country, it's those that we are referring to.
We spend a lower percentage of GDP on education here in the U.S. than any other industrialized nation. Why do you wonder why our kids' test scores are always the lowest among those from industrialized nations?
(And Amsterdam, if you want to point your finger at liberals for political correctness in schools [axing dodgeball, red ink, etc], you'd do better to point your finger at idiot parents for starting these ridiculous initiatives)
this thread is 3 pages of Bhall2gk tearin it up! Rock the fuck on
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhallg2k
i suppose the democrats could lead a wonderful govt. run educationsystem.
no thanks.
[QUOTE=amsterdam]i would not go that far,but liberal thinking is screwing with our kids in schoool.
QUOTE]
Can I add a provizo that that is relevant only in the US?
Over here many ideologies are inherent in education, as it whats makes for a balanced view, and we all want our kids to have a balanced and informed perspective on the world, dont we?
For an example, going back a few years now, when my old colleage had an open night, once of the history teachers set upa stand pretending he was a member of the Nazi party, and spent all night saying why we should go for the nazi manefesto. Not the genocide, anti-semetism, but the actual selling points that helped get the Nazis in. Devils advocate in a debate basically.
The college got complaints like you wouldnt beleive, as you'd expect, so said history teacher invited all the upset paretns back and layed it down - "we dont teach one perspective, we teach those that are relevant to the subject so your child can see all the sides and draw an informed conclusion. With the example you saw, your children would be able to give me a full critique by the end of term".
Parents were chuffed to bits.
i like the sound of that.i would like for my kids to be taught stuff and techniques like that.
Wow Amsterdam, we agree on something. You can't teach the truth while at the same time hiding it. Also, it's incredibly hypocritical to protest a group, government, etc, that is oppressive and restricts freedom by restricting the freedom to teach about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
I do think that this is best kept at the college level. Younger, more impressionable kids, might not be able to understand what he was doing and just take what he was saying as the teachers word. "My teacher says Nazi's were good, I wanna be a Nazi Mommy" Not too cool.
im not a neo-con despite what some might say.
Fair comment, but dont slip of out of context mate - it was a parents evenin - all college students were accompanied by parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fengzi
No animals were harmed either
LOL, nice educated answer. Typical republican, u dont even address bhall's comment, instead u go on the attack. Nice grammar too, still better than ur hero GW. Id like to see a republican get in a real debate, and see how long they last, but unfortunately that is impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by amsterdam
thats because god made democrats smarter than the rest of the world.
lmao, see what im saying, u cant even give a real response, wtf? I thought u knew, asians are the smartest ppl on earth, democrats are 2nd, lmao, jk! Amsterdam, u need to smoke more, or get some pussy bro, your on here 24/7 making lame posts. youve been on here only 3 months, and u have nearly 1700 posts, are you obsessed? Do you have nothing else to do? Instead of bashing liberals, because were better, you should go to a christian rally or some shit, where you really belong, no offense. Drugs (marijuana) and republicans dont mix, so why are you here in the first place? you are already contradicting what your party stands for, which is anti-drugs, and many other bs things. I would never go on a christian site and bash them 24/7, it just doesnt make sense. You must like pestering stoners, which is mainly 99% democrat, for those that are involved in politics, so wtf, your either with us, or against us, as your hero GW said before.