Emmies Grow Log - White Widow

Just wanted to stop in and ask why you keep refering to your babies as "boys"? You may want to refer to them as "girls" so they don't get mad and hermie on you:D

You deffinately don't want any boys hanging around your ladies:thumbsup:

Good grow so far too!!! Just make sure you tke the advice thats been given because they are right. You deffinatley dont want to add any nutes to pre-fert soil and if you do, wait until flower and start very very low. I am at about half strength coming up on week 4 of flower and I feed them MG Bloom Booster and they love it. Also, try not to overwater and cause your babies to drown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon420

Just wanted to stop in and ask why you keep refering to your babies as "boys"? You may want to refer to them as "girls" so they don't get mad and hermie on you:D

You deffinately don't want any boys hanging around your ladies:thumbsup:

Good grow so far too!!! Just make sure you tke the advice thats been given because they are right. You deffinatley dont want to add any nutes to pre-fert soil and if you do, wait until flower and start very very low. I am at about half strength coming up on week 4 of flower and I feed them MG Bloom Booster and they love it. Also, try not to overwater and cause your babies to drown.

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You need to read the first post as this is an experiment, which em is trying to predict sex at 6 days from the seed popping. Its interesting. But the plants she refers to as ''boys'' if this experiment works, they will be male and the other labeled female.


:rasta:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LetsSeeYa

You need to read the first post as this is an experiment, which em is trying to predict sex at 6 days from the seed popping. Its interesting. But the plants she refers to as ''boys'' if this experiment works, they will be male and the other labeled female.


:rasta:

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My bad, I missunderstood:stoned::smokin:

Dec 23 (14 days) - Today at the 2 week point I lead off with a picture!

Helicopter view of #1, our prize big boy!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...imag0007-p.jpg

Yesterday our little ones had a busy day. They moved out of the closet and into the new grow box. The box isn't completely finished yet, but it is time to start testing it under real life conditions. Now the light hitting them has doubled yet again under the big Sunblaze 48/8 light. Also, we now have changed the light spectrum a bit with addition of a bit of red light. (I only have 6 blue bulbs)

As a result of all this activity our babies got out their sunglasses and reached up to the light today. It was remarkable seeing them all turn their leaves upward in direct response to the added light. There was not a lot of apparent growth comparing pictures from yesterday to today, but I am preparing for a growth spurt today and tomorrow when they decide that the added energy is here to stay and instead of storing it, they start using it to build.

Just 2 shopping days left till Christmas! Everyone stay safe!

Emmie

interesting experiment, will be watching for results

Dec 24 (Day 15) - Everything looks very good here today. The babies seem to love the light and have turned their leaves upward to get as much of it as they can. Now that I am not over watering the coloring has become a deep green again with no trace of yellow except in a few of the cot's. I see a bit of new growth but mostly they all seem to be gathering energy right now and increasing leaf size all over. A big growth spurt is coming soon, I can just feel it! I will let the pictures speak for themselves.

Our little girl, reaching toward the sun...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-number-4.jpg

Number 3, turned upward and gathering...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-number-3.jpg

Number 2, looking up and feeling strong...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-number-2.jpg

Our bad boy #1, struttin his stuff for the camera...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-number-1.jpg

Have a great day! ---Emmie

cant wait to see how this turns out:jointsmile:
all looks well so far! keep it up:thumbsup:

Nice job, cant wait to see them flower. I have two small ones in flower and about a dozzen in veg with some seeds waiting to sprout. The ww looks sooo cool. Check um out in my log.

Good luck and have a Merry Christmas:rastasmoke:

looking good looking good im here watching :thumbsup: :rasta:

Dec 25 (16 days) - Merry Christmas everyone! I am pleased to report that the growth spurt has started to happen. #1 is the big guy, but height wise, 2 and 3 have almost caught up with him. #4 is still the runt, but she is getting taller now too. Everyone is reaching up and gathering light and growing rapidly now. It is also helping a great deal now that I am not watering nearly as much... the soil feels pretty dry right now to me and I would have been hitting them with a couple of cups of water before I learned not to... but now my moisture indicator probe says there is still some water in there, and no signs of thirst in the babies.

As you all are aware, I am attempting to prove the early sexing theory that was brought to us by WashougalWonder (http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-...ml#post2068667). Using that work, we have identified #4 as a male and #1 (the runt) as female. 2 and 3 were a bit more difficult, but it was very tempting to label both of them early on as female although I went 50/50 on them and initially labeled them one of each. There were red indicators on the trunks on both of them though, and looking at this experiment some more, I am heading back to my original feelings about these two and thinking that they are both female.

What I have noticed is this. The male clearly shows green stalk... from the dirt level up to the top of the growth, nothing but green. Some of the petioles (the smaller leaf stalks) are red, but I think this is more genetics than an indicator of sex. The other 3, I am thinking that a key place to look is the main stalk, between the first true leaves and the first internode. In all 3 this little section of main stalk is all red. Could this be the indicator we are looking for? If so, I have 3 girls and a boy here. Time will tell.

Here are the pictures!

Our big boy #1... look at him go!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...8-day-16-1.jpg

Number 2... catching up! Note the red stalk before the first internode
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...9-day-16-2.jpg

Number 3... right behind, and again the red section of main trunk
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...0-day-16-3.jpg

Number 4... the proud little runt and her very clearly all red stalk
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...1-day-16-4.jpg

Be well everyone...
Emmie

Quote:

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It is also helping a great deal now that I am not watering nearly as much... the soil feels pretty dry right now to me and I would have been hitting them with a couple of cups of water before I learned not to... but now my moisture indicator probe says there is still some water in there, and no signs of thirst in the babies.

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cheap, moisture meter probe...reads: WET/MOIST/DRY...the KISS principle, money, well spent...:thumbsup:

Interesting, all the red ones are much more predominately red than I am used to seeing. See how it is on the bottom of the petioles too? I wonder if water is shy on Mg? What is source of water again? If municipal can you look up the data for water quality, that should show the micronutrients.

They all look female to me except the first one. The runt looks over watered. Mix the soil up at the top a little bit gently to help loose moisture, also can direct fan on them at low volume to strengthen stalks and help transpiration.

Don't go and freak out that there may be a deficiency. The fact they reach for the light is showing strength and they are okay, I am questioning if genetics or deficiency is causing the amount of redness, even the 'male' has redness that I would not expect, and I think it is genetics but I am not sure at all here. (I need to look back at the beginning to see what you are using, 'old fart syndrome' ;))

Edit: Ok what I am looking for is not there, would you fill out a troubleshooting form for me please?.....6" pots...

Hello fellow Cannabis'ers! I hope Santa was good to you yesterday. Today is a travel day for me so I am hurrying through the post this morning and I apologize for the quality of the pictures. I tried a new top down angle today and still need to work a bit on the focus distance, but you can still get a good idea what is happening from these this morning.

From the helicopter views you can see that each of the babies are starting to show good growth to the sides and good density in the center. The soil dried out pretty good yesterday so I hit them with 2 cups of water each last night before lights out. I still have not confirmed if this is the best time to water them, but it makes sense to me that they could best utilize the oxygenated water when they stop processing light and do whatever it is that they do in the dark. I think of this as how we humans best process food if we relax after a meal rather than following a meal with strenuous exercise. I have no idea if this is a valid way of relating to plants since I am so new at this, but it is my attempt to try to understand how a plant lives and what it needs.

At any rate, the plants all look happy and healthy. 1,2 and 3 have all achieved approximately the same vertical height now and seem to be trying to increase surface area of the leaf structures in order to gather in more light. When I watered I could tell that the root structure of all the plants now seems to be solid as there was no tilting or apparent movement as the water settled around them. I am also assuming that #1 has a much more developed root structure from the run off after watering. 2 cups used to produce run off in all the pots, but now #1 shows no run off at this level, and as the plant size decreases, the amount of run off increases. Again, having no experience in this, I have to assume that it is the root structure sucking up this excess water, but I have no idea if this uptake can be so rapid as to influence the effect that I think I am seeing.

Please feel free to comment on these various assumptions and thoughts as I proceed with this grow log. I am trying to be brutally honest about my lack of experience and knowledge here in the attempt to learn, as well as to allow anyone reading this grow log in the future to learn from it just as I am doing. As long as we stay on these topics and treat this grow log as a lesson for the brand new grower, I will not feel that anyone is hijacking the log with their comments.

Here are todays pictures, a bit out of focus...

#1, our fast growing boy
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...day-17-001.jpg

#2, doing well... getting wider every day
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...day-17-002.jpg

#3, she is really starting to build now, no crutch needed these days
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...day-17-003.jpg

#4, she may be small, but she sure is growing now, vertically and horizontally
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...day-17-004.jpg


Thanks everyone for your input so far! Have a great day!

Emmie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Interesting, all the red ones are much more predominately red than I am used to seeing. See how it is on the bottom of the petioles too? I wonder if water is shy on Mg? What is source of water again? If municipal can you look up the data for water quality, that should show the micronutrients.

They all look female to me except the first one. The runt looks over watered. Mix the soil up at the top a little bit gently to help loose moisture, also can direct fan on them at low volume to strengthen stalks and help transpiration.

Don't go and freak out that there may be a deficiency. The fact they reach for the light is showing strength and they are okay, I am questioning if genetics or deficiency is causing the amount of redness, even the 'male' has redness that I would not expect, and I think it is genetics but I am not sure at all here. (I need to look back at the beginning to see what you are using, 'old fart syndrome' ;))

Edit: Ok what I am looking for is not there, would you fill out a troubleshooting form for me please?.....6" pots...

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:postgood:

ok... here is the form
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What is your experience level? (first timer)

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. T5 high output SunBlaze 48/8 - 6 blue bulbs and 2 red.. will switch to all red at flowering

.2) Distance from tops? approximately 4 inches

.3) Reflector type? SunBlaze fixture, individual reflectors above each bulb, mylar all throughout the box.

.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Constant circulation, 50cfm fan at top of box drawing in from the bottom.

.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes both, small circulation fan sitting at pot level blowing up into the light and across the top of the plants

.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 55w each x 8. 6-6500k, 2-3000k. On a 18/6 schedule

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, Miracle Grow 6 month formula 4 parts, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite with 1/2 inch layer of vermiculite at the bottom of the pots.

.8) Size of container. 8" diameter x 7.5" height terra-clay pots

.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
used paper towel method and planted directly to 8" pots.

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?
tap water, filtered with carbon filter, set out for at least 24 hours, ph 6.3-6.4

11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)
aquarium test kit

12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) not needed yet

13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Miracle grow all purpose 24-8-16... only used once at 1/8 strength and saw nutrient burn, so have not used it again.

14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? 2 cups, approximately every 3 days

15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) Planning to use molasses (unsulfered) after transplanting to 3gal buckets before flowering

16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? seem to be stable

17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? in-6.3, out 7-7.2 ( I think... not sure how to read since runoff is already a yellowish color)

18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? Have not fed this way yet, but have tried seltzer water one time

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? box, 5'x 28"x4'
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? 30-35 off, 35-40 on
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? a couple of gnats, nothing else

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) 60/40 mix, white widow

24) From seeds or clones? seeds from Amsterdam seed company
25) Is this an autoflower strain? no


Questions from your last post...
*what do you mean water is shy on MG?
*Will look into micro-nutes on city water... assume this would be greatly reduced with the use of this carbon filter... should I not filter it?

Thanks!
Emmie

Okay Em, thanks. I think the Miracle grow...Mg as in magnesium. The miracle grow is probably the cause. Not to worry, easy on the water, mine use about 1/4 cup per day at that size...tops.

Next pot size up should be about a 1 -1.5 gal nursery size. See if ya can find some potting mix without time release food. You must go very, very easy on watering as each time you water you release nutes in these mixes. Do not just go to huge pot, water settles to the bottom and gets stagnant.

But regardless I think these have grown beyond the age I mean when I am talking just sprouting out of the ground and the red. Note the duskiness below the cotyledons on these two young girls. Note how the red on the petioles only is mostly on the top half and just dots.

Of course this could all be just lighting differences.

Yes I have given up on filtering. But what is in your water?

Yes as the root system builds the needs of the pot of soil will increase and of course without a good root system less water will be used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Okay Em, thanks. I think the Miracle grow...Mg as in magnesium. The miracle grow is probably the cause. Not to worry, easy on the water, mine use about 1/4 cup per day at that size...tops.

Next pot size up should be about a 1 -1.5 gal nursery size. See if ya can find some potting mix without time release food. You must go very, very easy on watering as each time you water you release nutes in these mixes. Do not just go to huge pot, water settles to the bottom and gets stagnant.

But regardless I think these have grown beyond the age I mean when I am talking just sprouting out of the ground and the red. Note the duskiness below the cotyledons on these two young girls. Note how the red on the petioles only is mostly on the top half and just dots.

Of course this could all be just lighting differences.

Yes I have given up on filtering. But what is in your water?

Yes as the root system builds the needs of the pot of soil will increase and of course without a good root system less water will be used.

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I will check with the city tomorrow and find out what is in the water. I am sure that something you just said here has given me one of those "ah ha" moments though... let me see if I understand correctly.

You see, I have read over and over all the comments about "run off" and had assumed that this was the goal of watering... that you figured out how much water it took to cause run off and then just short of that was what the plant/soil needed. BUT... notice the big letters here. I think what you just told me was that this is a big big mistake with a soil such as MG and plants as small as these because such a large amount of water not only stagnates in a too large of pot such as I have here, but it also will tend to release way too many nutrients at each watering. DUH! This makes perfect sense and now I understand what my plants are trying to tell me. Not only do they show signs of over-watering, but they seem to constantly teeter on the edge of nutrient burn, a couple have actually burned twice at the very leaf tips of the first true leaves.

So if I am finally starting to see the light here, the key isn't just waiting till the soil appears to be dry but also in learning to give the babies just the right amount of water that they can handle at that particular stage in their growth! Now I think I am starting to get it! These poor little things might just survive my attacks after all! Thank you WW. I know that many of you have been warning me to stop over-watering, but sometimes it doesn't sink in until someone says just the right thing in just the right way. All this talk of run off and flushing... I have been picturing torrents of water each time the containers get totally dry.

Once again, I have been totally humbled by the simple needs of a frail little life who's fate is in my hands. Someday, I may actually get good at this. Thank you again everyone... I am learning... slowly.

Emmie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emilya

I will check with the city tomorrow and find out what is in the water. I am sure that something you just said here has given me one of those "ah ha" moments though... let me see if I understand correctly.

You see, I have read over and over all the comments about "run off" and had assumed that this was the goal of watering... that you figured out how much water it took to cause run off and then just short of that was what the plant/soil needed. BUT... notice the big letters here. I think what you just told me was that this is a big big mistake with a soil such as MG and plants as small as these because such a large amount of water not only stagnates in a too large of pot such as I have here, but it also will tend to release way too many nutrients at each watering. DUH! This makes perfect sense and now I understand what my plants are trying to tell me. Not only do they show signs of over-watering, but they seem to constantly teeter on the edge of nutrient burn, a couple have actually burned twice at the very leaf tips of the first true leaves.

So if I am finally starting to see the light here, the key isn't just waiting till the soil appears to be dry but also in learning to give the babies just the right amount of water that they can handle at that particular stage in their growth! Now I think I am starting to get it! These poor little things might just survive my attacks after all! Thank you WW. I know that many of you have been warning me to stop over-watering, but sometimes it doesn't sink in until someone says just the right thing in just the right way. All this talk of run off and flushing... I have been picturing torrents of water each time the containers get totally dry.

Once again, I have been totally humbled by the simple needs of a frail little life who's fate is in my hands. Someday, I may actually get good at this. Thank you again everyone... I am learning... slowly.

Emmie

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Next time, get some Black Gold (Home Depot, nursery) and Perlite, and make your own soil. Then get FF nutes!!! :D

I can attest to Black Gold. I have never used anything except it. Works great and I've never mixed anthing with it and use it from seed through cull time. Although perlite seems like a good idea. I think it perlite helps it dry faster and gets more ox to the roots.

Im a little curious what your flowering plan is in terms of lights, pots, LST etc; Buuuttt, don't tell me it will be like ruining a good movie and spoiling the end. :jointsmile:

Remember Black Gold, it's great.

Plants look very symentrical. I always find they are so much more sensitive at their age.

Looking great.

Emily, I am not the world's best communicator. I am thrilled you now understand WTF. :wtf:

Again, don't freak, just let nature work here.

Greetings faithful readers... I feel we have been here before, but now we are just a bit smarter. Today finds our little ones recovering once again from too much love, i.e... too much water. They are complaining at me a bit, with a slightly yellowish trend all throughout the major leaves. Again it is not all of them doing this so dramatically, but it is there... mama notices.

So, after being repeatedly told this by so many of you fine people out there, we have learned finally that Miracle Grow is very hard to manage... and certainly more than should be attempted by a novice grower such as myself. But, this is what we have and now I am learning to deal with it. After a couple of days of drying out we are going to try to apply what has just been learned and try watering in small amounts. 1/4 cup / day instead of 2 cups every 2 1/2 to 3 days. When I return to the store I will be looking for the soil mentioned in earlier responses and the FF nutrients for when I eventually transplant to larger pots.

Despite this bit of training on my part, the plants seem to be thriving. All but the runt are now at about the same height, about 2 3/4" to 3" on the big boy. Everyone continues to increase leaf size and overall circumference.

Also today I go to the local water company and ask them what they have put into my water. This should be fun. I think I will tell them that I raise prize winning tropical fish. That will fool them... yep.

Here are today's pictures!

Number 1
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...8-day-18-1.jpg

Number 2
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...7-day-18-2.jpg

Number 3
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...6-day-18-3.jpg

Number 4
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-day-18-4.jpg

Be good everyone. Just 5 days left until we start 2011, the last full year in the Mayan calendar. I plan on partying the entire year... just in case.

Emmie

p.s. Pipefitter... thank you for thinking that this growlog is like a good movie. :) I will try not to disappoint. You will no doubt enjoy my newbie attempts to understand some advanced flowering techniques. I don't plan on making this too easy... what would be the fun in that?

Here are the numbers. I have no idea if any of this is good or bad

Floride .7 mg/L
Sodium 46 mg/L
Iron Not Detected
Manganese Not Detected
Lead 3.4 ug/L
Copper .650 mg/L
Nitrate .02 mg/L
Arsenic .5 ug/L
Selenium 2.5 mg/L
Clorine 1.5 mg/L
Sulfate 31.2 mg/L
TTHMS 2.4 mg/L
HAA5 .3 mg/L
:what:
I am assuming that my Britta filter gets rid of most of this and setting it out for 24 hours evaporates off the clorine. Anything else desirable in there?

Emmie

Ya, with the lead and arsenic, I would use the britta filter most of the time....

I do notice they do not show calcium or magnesium, and no iron. Next time you water give 1 teaspoon of unsulphured molasses mixed in 1 gallon of water...you will waste a bunch of water, but no harm done. Water the proper amount, toss the rest. Let things go a week at least before giving it again. If not already marking on a calendar when you give nutes, start one. Pick a day of the week to nute IF you nute....I use Sunday as it is a lazy day for me and I have extra time to monitor everything.

You need to learn how to feel if the pot needs water. It is a weight thing. At this point they aren't large enough to use much but down the road it is a useful tool. I give a 1/4 cup, but my humidity is currently in the 80-100% range, you may need 1/2 cup, which would be my summer amount. Remember these are a plant that will do fine with small amounts of water if they have good soil and light. Wet-to-dry is important for strong root development.

Remember when you repot to use plastic, not clay, roots don't adhere as much to the plastic.

Good morning my friends...

Sometimes you look at your plants and you wonder, "have there been any changes today?" I did that this morning and was thinking that there had been little if any change from the day before. Then I compared pictures. Wow! :thumbsup: Amazing how much growth can happen in a day without you realizing it, especially if you are checking on it several times throughout the day.

We are still recovering from my last over watering and I see the yellowish tinge on several of the larger first leaves and also on the cotyledons. I think that they are going to forgive me for this latest deluge since I am now letting them dry out, but I do have to quit stressing these babies. Growth is rapid at this point and even our little girl runt is starting to show some impressive growth. One plant, #2 is starting to look different than the rest somehow, she stands differently. Not sure how to describe it, but if I played the old childs game of "one of these things is not like the other one" I would pick her out of the crowd. Maybe its nothing... but I have my eye on her.

Here are the pictures, and tomorrow I start a new album since I have now filled this first one up.

The star of our show, Our little girl runt... look at her go now!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-day-19-p4.jpg

Number 3... standing at 2.75" and getting wider each day
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-day-19-p3.jpg

Number 2... somehow different.. a haughty and sort of aloof look about her
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-day-19-p2.jpg

Number 1... so big now he is messing with the camera focus laser.. good boy!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-day-19-p1.jpg

Have a wonderful day everyone!

Emmie

p.s. WW, I will keep filtering then and will try the molasses on the next watering to fill in some of the missing nutrients. I am indeed keeping a detailed calendar on important events here, so I will establish a regular schedule. I have determined that I really dislike these clay pots and will only use the plastic from here on out. I am planning on moving to 1gal containers at about the 1 month time.

Plastic is easier to up pot out of too. For flowering I like to use "Smart Pots" Smart Pots - Container Gardening, Hydroponic Fabric Containers

The only reason I use plastic for vege is ease of up potting, it's kinda difficult to get the rootball out of the fabric bags without disrupting it too much.



Baby's look good ;) I've been taggin along since the beginning. :hippy:

"A haughty and aloof look to her"...Love reading your observations, Emmie! :D

Lookin good! Please stop worrying so much about nutes and WW stop encouraging her on nutes! ;) LOL! They will tell you what and when they need something and you'll actually be able to tell once the "deluge" situation has dried out, but you shouldn't have to add anything for a few more weeks minimum, and you'll probably be re-potting before that happens, so no worries, eh?...there's plenty of stuff in that soil you used! If you feel you absolutely MUST add something, yea, molasses would be good, but remember, it will help the plant take up even more nutes from the soil and could "heat up" an already hot soil mix, and you may start to see some mild burning going on....just be aware of it. I always notice it when I first add molasses to MG dirt. The sweet stuff seems to give the dirt some kick! Personally, I would just stick to good ph'd filtered water for now! And I use the 1/4 cup measure also....just depends on how dry my house is as to how many days they go before getting the next 1/4 cup, but it's always at least two! Usually 3...yea, ya gotta stop over watering them, but they still lookin good! The love must be making up for the stress...:D

Tank has more knowledge with the MG soil than I do, listen to him.

Greetings... the board was still down this morning so I didn't update the pictures. I will show you how they look again tomorrow morning. Here was how our big boy #1 looked yesterday and the other 3 pictures are available in the new album Emmies First Grow (part 2)...

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...5-day-20-1.jpg

As you can see, a lot of yellowing going on here and it is causing me a lot of concern. Most of it has to do with the over watering so I am being patient and waiting for them to dry out. Today the containers appeared to be mostly dry and I have given them 1/4 cup of water... that is 1 3/4 less than I had been giving them at this point. This will have to cause a huge difference. In the morning I expect them all to either look better or all be dead. Time will tell.

At any rate, I am glad to see the forum back. Actually, without being so overly dramatic, as of this evening it looks like some green is returning to the lower leaves on everyone already and I am seeing quite a bit of new growth in just one day on #1. He has popped out 4 new leaves just over the cotyledons and they grew dramatically today. All new growth is presenting in a lush deep green and I have every hope that he is still thriving, despite my attempts to drown them.

Emmie

You are doing okay. Patience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

You are doing okay. Patience.

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lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

1. Clay pots...oh my. You may have to hire a brain surgeon...someone with a steady hand...:D

Weezard said to me one day.."Boy...use a sharp knife to cut along the sides to loosen the roots from the sides...slowly...carefully..and pray it's not stuck to the bottom too much"....:wtf:...:stoned:...so i listened to the old fart and it worked OK...:D

2. I wouldn't transplant yet. I really don't see anything unusual about your seedlings....IMO....transplant when rootbound.

3. I would feel bad if something went wrong with your grow; because of advice from me. I do my growing by the seat of my pants. I can usually just look at a plant (in Person) and see what it wants?

4. The final decision is yours alone....choose wisely.

Enjoy your grow.

Well DP, I am going to disagree with you. I think the sooner she gets out of the troublesome MG soil she will do much better.

Yes do the knife thing around the edges, support the soil around the stem and turn upside down, might even have to tap on the pot to get it all to release. A little root damage may occur, but I think not. Just sort of let the root ball crumble in your hands and then repot into the OF or whatever.

Maybe do the worst looking plant and see how it does first? These puppies are tough, you have a better chance of getting an ulcer than killing them you worry-wart you. LOL.

Have a good day

...I've seen just as many plants die in Fox Farms soil as I have MG soil.

"It's a poor workman that blames his tools"

Like Washougal said...Patience comes to mind here. Or a severe lack of it.
-But-
Patience can be gained, by LEAVING THE POOR THINGS ALONE. Keep dicking with 'em, and you are likely to get yourself into an unrecoverable position of stunted or severly stressed plants.

I can appreciate a genuine concern over the kids, and a strong desire to taste the fruits of your labors, but you've got to stop thinking there is something you are doing wrong or not doing right. (that's the impression I've been getting here)

Your plants look fine. :thumbsup:

I did the terra-cotta pots in the past. Nothing like stuck/stretched/torn roots and traumatized rootballs to throw the plants into deep transplant shock. (use care, and let rootball dry-out before the transplant) Been happily in plastic since.

Leave them in the pots they're in till they are ready for transplant. (roots crowding the bottom of the pot) Transplant too early, and you do a few things...
1) You tend to give more water, which in a larger pot, it takes longer to dry. Cannabis needs and prefers a wet-dry cycle. Try to aim twords the dry side, since you have a history of overwatering. Overwatered roots will cease mostly all nutrient and water uptake till the condition is rectified. Consistently wet roots rot. Root rot is generally fatal.
2) On feeding days, you're likely to saturate the pot thinking the roots will grow twords the unused nutrients. What this does is add to the salt build-up. The nutrients tend to congeal and toxify the soil. Roots don't thrive in toxic enviornments.
3) The newfound footroom makes for phenominal root growth, often at the expense of foliar growth. If the soil is still retaining water during feedings, likely there's still enough footroom. Tiz ok (prefered in my garden) to have a little bit of root compaction, but letting 'em get rootbound is also counter-productive.

Cute Dutch, lol. But MG can be a tough soil to learn on. But once you get it down...it's no better or worse than others.
When in a pre-ferted soil, the need for additional nutrients is negligible. I learned to grow in MG 3 month soil about 8 years ago, and it lasts about a month and a half or two before I'd start the light doses of nutrients. Doubtful it's much different with the 6 month, except it lasts for a longer period before running-out. Not too sure about the buffering in the soil lasting that long, so ph will likely take a big hit. But you mention switching to the FF during your next transplant, so ph shouldn't be an issue for ya.

What nutrients are you going to use for flowering?

Usually terra-cotta pots have one big hole in the bottom. Transplant when roots are growing out the bottom hole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emilya

lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

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Hey Em looking great:thumbsup:. I use a clay pot sometime and have never had an issue with any re pot, even 5gal re pots. I made a ''how to re pot without stress'' in my Sig if you want to look at it, but it is a plastic pot. I have grown bonsai trees and re potting is just something done a lot if you have lots of trees.

But the main thing is to let the pot dry out, then turn it over and use something to tap around the pot, which should loosen up anything attached to the pot. If it gives you problems still, just turn them, the pots upside down and use a bit of force to pop it out in your other hand. You will use the edge of the pot to hit your palm and with fingers spread, the plant will pop out with all dirt/root ball intact. Then just add soil to new pot, drop the plant with root ball in new pot and fill in around it. In a week or two, the roots should have grown into the fresh medium. If you look at the thread i made you can see how fast my plant recovered.

Do not spoon it out, you have no idea where the roots start and stop and stress will follow. But i grantee my way, there is no stress. Some people think a re pot will always give stress, never in my case.



Great thread:rasta:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

Usually terra-cotta pots have one big hole in the bottom. Transplant when roots are growing out the bottom hole.

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Yep, the only thing i forgot was to let the pot fill its pot before anything. I wish all my seedlings looked that healthy.

But i gotta say, i luv my small clay pot, because of the big whole in the bottom and builds a nice root ball for me. I have never had to go around the pot with a knife, but i fill the pot with roots first:thumbsup:



:rasta:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Well DP, I am going to disagree with you. I think the sooner she gets out of the troublesome MG soil she will do much better.

Yes do the knife thing around the edges, support the soil around the stem and turn upside down, might even have to tap on the pot to get it all to release. A little root damage may occur, but I think not. Just sort of let the root ball crumble in your hands and then repot into the OF or whatever.

Maybe do the worst looking plant and see how it does first? These puppies are tough, you have a better chance of getting an ulcer than killing them you worry-wart you. LOL.

Have a good day

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ok guys... you are making me feel better about things for sure. The thing that is troubling me is that i thought I was being smart when I put these pots together with putting that layer of vermiculite at the bottom. I thought it would help with drainage. Now I hear that the stuff traps moisture... and I see that happening in that even when the rest of the soil is mostly dry, I still get some condensation under the pot where the vermiculite seems to be throwing off a bit of that moisture. So, I'm worried about 2 things... first that the root wont be able to get through that layer and start presenting at the bottom hole to tell me when it is time to repot... and 2, if I am retaining moisture down there, am I risking root rot? This beginner mistake along with the miracle grow debacle would be fixed if I repot... but then again, I trust and value the great advice and experience of all of you too. Maybe as WW suggested, I will pick the worse looking one and try a transplant to see what happens and learn from it. The other 3 for now, I will use to practice my patience... at least until I get to examine what is happening at the bottom of the experimental pot... If I find lake Erie under there I am going to have a small panic attack. :eek:

Emmie

When properly watered, the perlite retains air inside it's tiny pockets, preventing over-saturation of the media.
When overwatered, the perlite displaces the air with water, which will keep the media saturated for longer.

Do not let the pots sit in standing water, even if you do have drainage rocks. (or perlite) It will prevent the air circulation (through the soil) that the plant needs.

Hey Em,
You put vermiculite or perlite in the bottom? Perlite is the norm for the bottom layer, but in your post you said vermiculite. Just want to get it clear to help sort out whats going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neonzr

Hey Em,
You put vermiculite or perlite in the bottom? Perlite is the norm for the bottom layer, but in your post you said vermiculite. Just want to get it clear to help sort out whats going on.

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vermiculite is the bottom layer... i messed up didn't I?