100% Confused right now

that will never happen the cap is at 50 a 8th and that is a good deal. the point of having a producer is to be able to try the products so you know what to grow in your rooms, the producers are not supposed to supply a constant even when at 100%. Unless your rich of coarse and 6400 a pound is nothing to you. seeds can be ordered on-line though attitude Dr chronic and many many others but those are the biggest ones at the moment.

1000 pound will never happen I don't car if you growing herb in a field and never use nutes and just let them be free the medical buds will not go for 1000 a pound at minimum 2500 and even then that is pushing it. I would say 3500-3000 a pound is more legit or close to reality.

you guys are not putting into account how medical is grown, nutrients are not cheep, electricity is not cheep, house or warehouse is not cheep. Yeah their are people out their that can grow with garbage and tin cans but is that what you want to supply your medical buds, in fact no it is against the law.

just a little in site, advanced nutes for 1 season about 2,000, power for on season, about 2,000, seeds for initial start about 2,000 supplies such as environment and pots and dirt, about 6,000, amount for growers and ware house or house about 10,000. sale and deliver cost about 2,000. with 3 or even 4 grow seasons in a year you can see why the price is high. medical is not some cheep throw seeds in dirt comeback in 3 months and you have medical buds, it is involved and is even therapeutic, its not building houses but its watering spraying foliage, in other words gardening, something psychiatrist prescribe to their patients all the time because of its non stressful ness and its involvement with environment and small physical activity. it can be fun

this is all a very ruff estimate and I am being very giving in that I am sure they spend more. how do you see $1,000 pounds coming out of this? not even in makebelive land. when you grow on your own you will see when you have a room big enough to fit 4 plants and a 1000W light at least, that the little 4 plant jungle will be much better when babbyed and your buds will be much more and and more potent, and you sell your pound for 1,000.

the point of this thing going on here in NM is for you to grow your own, that is the way it should be, so you do not have to pay insane prices for plant matter. Their will be people who are not able to grow for them selves and will need medicine, and hopefully in the future co-ops will be able to donate to them. Co-ops are card holders and licensed growers that don't need all 4 plants all the time so they donate here and there, not allot maybe a quarter each or a oz here and there but if you have 10 or more co-ops doing things like this then problems like 10% of card holders who can not grow and not afford medicine can have it available. There are many ways to make things like this happen but not when your all waiting for the producers to produce, I know everyone when not knowing what strain is best for you that uncertainty is a big suck cause you don't want to waste a whole season on a plant that sucks, but believe in those that have come before you. buy seeds like bubba kush white rhino, almost any greenhouse strain, if you like sativa then greenhouse has some of the best, if you want NM genetics then you are wasting your time, cause those genetics are hidden and secret and personally why you would want those I don't know, you not growing in the mountains or in the green house thats what those strains were bread for our environment not medical value. and when your in that position you can donate the $1000 pounds cause you will be donating, your time your money and your medicine.

Northern lights any kush or haze or bubblegum indica type strains will have value to you, and if you don't like it I am sure their is fair trade amongst card holders, the point is is you have the power to grow and that in its self is a monumental power, because you know have the power to heal. most will not grow AAA buds right a away but those that do, write about it, tell people about using, distilled water for germ nd clones and tell about bleach being the mother of all fuk ups, cause they will kill rooms silently and almost over night. Tell things of our environment and pest is not a big problem but heat is . these things will help each other greatly, reading posts about how high I got on shishkaberry isn't the best read for medical people cause it don't answer questions like nausea, or pain relief or head grogginess or hangover or something as simple as is it Sativa or Indica. But if you guys are growing different strains you can talk about it and to those that think well maybe thats the bud for me you can trade or grow a plant of that strain or go to the producer and ask if they have that strain, so you don't have to buy seeds and uses a season to grow a strain that is not for you.

Point is you have the power to grow and go big, if you start with small plants then remember small yields and you are allowed 4 plants so that is gonna be a Small yield, where as even if you grow one big plant that one plant could have enough medicine for months. a little plant might yield medicine for one week, does not work for us, in our situation. the need to grow bigger don't have to be massive but big a 4 or 5 foot plant in a 20 or 30 gallon dirt pot is what we need to look at not producers, cause this isn't Cali, their is not producers on every corner, yet, but when we all get growing there will be. Gotta give those guys a chance do get tehri curve in gear caseue rember the govenrment is not here to protect you they are not here to help you they dont even care about you, they careabout peoplethat can work and make money for them. Government is a bussines not a legacy anymore so it is time to over grow the government, and help from with in, let them scrambel about caseu soon enough we will have to be scramblin again too, it goes in cycles and cyles means at some point it will be dry, or it will be hard, so save up during the good times to better the bad times. hell if you can do it over thorw the government to bring it bck to land of the free home of the brave, but were all not Gorge Washington so help your own then soon enough everybodys help will spread out, it is the way this whole thing started Lynn was a person not a name or a compasionit act, we all now know, theri were many Lynn's buy holding our selves back we are bringing dishonor to those before us, do not get discourage, it is ok to ask for help or bring your situation on to the forum as long as it does not incriminate you or others. I have yet to see a grow quetion from NM, but that is not supprising Nm is full of green thumbs and Farmers, but if theri out theri let them fly if you have questions on strains let them fly if you dont know what to do becaeu you have a card and no buds then let it be known but the answer is going to be growing answers not hook ups in most cases anyway.

to feed a person you feed him for a day to teach a person to grow and hunt you feed him and those that come after him forever.
you see sometimes they have to kill us caseu they cant kill our spirit, They will never be able to kill our spirt only we can do that.

Thank you Madsativa for that inspiration I also think that we have to take it in our own hands.It is not easy to start when you are not sure of what you are doing but we have to start someplace. I think alot of people are afraid to ask for help because they fear being put down for not having the right type of knowledge.WE do have to make connections and help each other in that way we will be able to overcome what we lack
in knowledge and fear. I hope at some point all nm mmps will be growing there own meds. again thank you .ps the Co-ops thing sounds like a good thing CAN IT BE DONE here in nm?

I don't think it is fully legal here in NM for co-ops, but co-ops are not something that is advertised, and they don't have meetings at the Hilton every month. co-ops are started cause someone says my herb is better then that, then some one says well we cant believe you unless we try it, so all the card holders in place sample each others meds and they see with their own eyes and minds who has the better genetics and the greener thumbs. but mostly what comes out of this is , well I know Dave in Socorro has some powerful stuff too so champ 1 meets Dave and a new strain is tested. this goes on and on until finally some says, I have a extra oz here and their we should start getting together a list of patients to spread out the oz to. might be 2 people at first but in the end you will have made your own secret community of legal card holders getting better genetics, getting better knowledge, and getting better with the community of medical. it has been close to 4 years this had been legal and were closer to the same place as when we started, politicians threatening to put it all down patients don't know where to go for advice or some still think this medical hype is all propaganda that hippies are taking over the Nation. People don't know that their are hundreds even thousands getting cured from oils and concentrates, and more in the thousands are getting relief from simply smoking Cannabis. the government still throws Cannabis in the news as a crime, when their are hundreds if not thousands of Cannabis dispensaries in the Nation already. people are in denial when penicillin came out people would not take it choosing death instead of eating medicine that came from mold.

It is this mentality we have to drive out of the country the mentality of no that can not be and should not be. this is a big problem when you deal with absolutes what happens when something is pr oven that is not popular. this is what happens this situation we are in now. you don't have to stand on top of my soap box but if you do thanks, but even more important is when you are in a position to help at least try. And remember in a co-op you are not alone that is the whole point more heads, more answers.

just something I have noticed the state and the government is trying to segregate us from the rest of the populous and even each other (cardholders). it is easier to conquer when you foe is divided. simple to evade this is to not divide in fact these times are times for card holders to get together better, this is happening in Cali right now, and they are making an effort to put out their own propaganda effort and have even gotten a place on the ballot to legalize for recreational use not just medical.

the nation is now closer to 50% medical and there is still the question of is it medicine, that is the crime right their when the truth stares you in the face and you denied the truth. that is what a little over 50% of the nation is doing now, but even 10 years ago they had a way bigger lead and now were close to 50-50 soon the truth will pull more toward the light but not if we all wait for them to come to the light

MadSativa you make a lot of sense to me .But it is not easy in this forum to be able to communicate with others . are you at the farm

MadSativa, No offence but you mention 2000.00$ for advancded nutrients for a season, lets take a more in depth look, if I used 2,000.00$ in nutrients I would harvest about 90 pounds of cannabis about every 112 days off of 60 plants, and it would be about another 2,000.00$ in additives on top of nutrients, so about 4,000.00$ for nutrients, would yield about 400,000.00-500,000.00$ worth of cannabis.


for a 60 plant set up, you would need 50 litters of hydroponic nutrients , around 480,00$ dollars.

and140 litters of bloom nutrients, would be about 1,200.00$

60 plant setup, Total 112day for each harvest.

(2 weeks to root cuttings, 28 days veg, 70 days flowering. â?�market price of 4,000.00$â?�.)
1.5 lbs per plant = 90 pounds =360,000.oo$
1.75lbs per plant =105 pounds=420,000.oo$

Yes that is 420,00.00$ every 112 days, with only 60 plants!!! at a market price of 4,000.00$, even though the producers are charging closer to 6,000.00$


Clone room/mother room 2 weeks of t5, 50.oo$
20x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 7 days 327.6o$
60x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 21 days 2,948.4o$
60x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 12 hours a day for 10 weeks (indica sativa blend) 6552.00$
AC 65 amps for 24 hours a day for 7 days, 141.96$
AC 128.8 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 3,690.04$
Water chiller estimate 128.8amps for 24 hours a day, 91 days 3,690.04$
17,393.00$

90 plants
1.5lbs per plant =135 pounds 540,000.oo$
1.75lbs per plant =157 pounds 628,000.oo$
$

Clone room/mother room 2 weeks of t5, 75.oo$
20x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 7 days 327.6o$
90x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 21 days 4,422.00$
.13$ an hour for 10 weeks (indica sativa blend) 9820.00$
AC 65 amps for 24 hours a day for 7 days, 141.96
AC 193.2 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 5,394.00$
Water chiller estimate,193.2 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 5,394.00$
25,573.oo

Hi Mimbres Dam you have this all figured out

Yes I do, and for a 60 plant setup that would be about 1800 gallons of nutrients solution,
I actually figure out how much everything costs, some folks will just throw out numbers, with no explanation of how they got there, a perfect example is madsativa(no offence bro). in all my numbers I take into consideration, electricity(for everything used for the grow), and nutrients.

Madsativa says its 2000,00$ for AN nutrients for a season, but he doesn't say how many plants, how they are grown, how much the final harvest is, etc.

This thread is just amazing.

Just trying to figure why our meds are so high priced. Are your costs anything like that or production rate? can't remember for sure but were you the one that had posted obout what was needed to start co-ops?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BuddingHopeNM

This thread is just amazing.

---

Most people have no idea how much cannabis production should cost, and everyone wants to put in their own .2$
LOL



Have any of you guys ever heard of jorge cervantes???( the worlds most well known grower!!)

I scanned page 157,158 of his book "indoor marijuana horticulture, the cannabis grow bible"
ON PAGE 157-160
George Cervantes shows how it only costs 300.00$ to grow a pound of cannabis indoors,
If you don't believe me, go down to your local book store, and take a look at his book.


Maybe it costs MadSativa 1,000.00$ to grow a pound, it might even cost someone who has no idea what they are doing 2,000.00$ to produce a pound.
but for people who know what they are doing, it should not cost more than 300.00$ to produce a pound of top notch cannabis!

Here are the pages directly from Jorge Cervantes book,

Seems people want to argue with me about how much it costs to produce cannabis. If you still want to disagree with me, you have to disagree with the worlds most well known & respected grower.

Apparently Jorge Cervantes is in "makebelive land" like myself, or maybe it is you who is in "makebelive" land MadSativa.
I mean I have the worlds best grower, supporting my statement and numbers, that it only costs 300.00$ to produce a pound.

What do you have to support you vastly inflated numbers>?

I didn't want to embarrass you like this Mads, but if you are going suggest that I am in make believe land, or I somehow am smudging the numbers, then I will prove you 100% wrong.

Peace:thumbsup:




1

2

3

dude Jorge Cervantes has even said he is in a make-believe land of sorts hence the name he gave him self Jorge Cervantes. the guy has short white hair his whole Jorge Cervantes thing is a character he made to not get prosecuted in Spain. yes what says is valid but he is not the worlds most known grower that is just what high times says. and high times for the past 10 years is kind of lame, they pick strains that suck in there top 10, they leave out props where they are due, hell they give credit to the wrong people sometimes when it comes to medical. some new growers you might want to look at are arjian and Franco at green house, Soma over at Soma seeds, the THSeeds crew are still in the game even after starting it back in the g13 , bubblegum days. but one to really look at is urban grower and brown dirt warrior these 2 guys are the most know growers in the world right now, since brndirts movie cam out and now part 2 is out. great movie buy the way I haven't seen part 2 but I am a big fan.

I know you have to have seen the show, "only show that will show you how to grow 2 pounds per light" if not look at urban grower.com remo is a entertaining guy and they know there shit, in all the medical rooms they show none of them say yeah I grow a pound for $300 and they live in Canada where everything is cheaper.

Small thought a co2 system is cheep to run but to buy one is in the 1,000s same with a hydro system

and trust me main you don't have the power to embarrass me this is the Internets not the forum of god.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MimbresValley

Yes I do, and for a 60 plant setup that would be about 1800 gallons of nutrients solution,
I actually figure out how much everything costs, some folks will just throw out numbers, with no explanation of how they got there, a perfect example is madsativa(no offence bro). in all my numbers I take into consideration, electricity(for everything used for the grow), and nutrients.

Madsativa says its 2000,00$ for AN nutrients for a season, but he doesn't say how many plants, how they are grown, how much the final harvest is, etc.

---

I don't have too everyone here knows how to estimate and do math we all pay the bill at the end of the month, you give yourself allot of credit for doing things that are done for you, producers are allowed 100 plants total, individual patients are allowed 4 plants flower, is that the info your looking for this is what your mad about the fact that you should know this. in all my numbers , numbers, numbers, you say this in every post like no one can do arithmetic, don't mean nuthing. when you grow big big prices are what comes out of it, and having bud at wall mart is far off caseu with prices like your talking that is where they would have to put herb cause its the only building that can hold the amount their going to need for everyone wanting their $300 pounds. one simple look at Cali will let you know the future of medical here, one look and we can avoid allot of the problems and get allot of the answers. and that is my 2 cents

Last post for me on this one -

Please pay for my
Welder
Gates
RO Units
Pumps (lots of em)
Hydro Units (lots of em)
15k+ watts of lights
Greenhouses (several of them)
Propane
Propane heaters
Weed blocker
Dog food (for 10, not just one)
Building materials - plywood/2x4s/2x6s
Fasteners
Mig - wire
Argon
Fuel for vehicles
Fuel to pull big trailers
1000s of cinder blocks (understand that you can't carry all at once either - several trips)
re-bar
concrete (lots of it)
security cameras
Metal doors
motion detectors
emergency dialers
alarms
fuel for backhoe
fuel for tractor
concrete forms
timers/controllers
pots
soil
soilless media
tele svc
DSL
power bill
water bill
vehicles for delivery
fuel for delivery vehicles (nm is rural)
registration
insurance
health insurance
labor
misc metal supplies
chop saws
grinder
serious wiring - serious wiring
webspace
computers/laptops
domain
.44 per postage stamp (multiply away)
paper
pens
phones
Grow logs
accountant(s)
legal representation



and everything up above, i want the best of the best because I am growing medical for the great patients of the great state of NM. What is odd is that I get hundreds of emails from patients and they are all sooooo nice. Not once have I gotten a bad or nasty email. Its just so odd that such negative things are said on here about producers. MV, you should get a producers license. If you don't, you are just wasting everyones time.

did i forget 35% federal tax? (noone EVER mentions this)
7% to DOH (which i will never whine about)
Lets not forget the assistance program and possible donation to the neediest patients (which will be maximized)

Thats not even all either. I'm sure theres a bunch I can't think of. Alot of the expenses up there don't really even pertain to growing. As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.

And if you can't mix cement or weld like a champ - don't forget good ole labor. I don't know how others are doing it up, but at Budding Hope, we are doing the best we can - and I am inclined to believe that we are doing pretty good and doing this RIGHT. And patients, please understand that the MAJORITY of active producers currently licensed aren't even 6 months old. Registration for BH will begin middle of this month.

It took BH and most of the producers over a year to be licensed. The rest took even longer. Growing is only about 50% of the picture. The rest you can't even imagine until you are in the situation. Alot we haven't even encountered yet either.

.................

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BuddingHopeNM

Last post for me on this one -

Please pay for my
Welder
Gates
RO Units
Pumps (lots of em)
Hydro Units (lots of em)
15k+ watts of lights
Greenhouses (several of them)
Propane
Propane heaters
Weed blocker
Dog food (for 10, not just one)
Building materials - plywood/2x4s/2x6s
Fasteners
Mig - wire
Argon
Fuel for vehicles
Fuel to pull big trailers
1000s of cinder blocks (understand that you can't carry all at once either - several trips)
re-bar
concrete (lots of it)
security cameras
Metal doors
motion detectors
emergency dialers
alarms
fuel for backhoe
fuel for tractor
concrete forms
timers/controllers
pots
soil
soilless media
tele svc
DSL
power bill
water bill
vehicles for delivery
fuel for delivery vehicles (nm is rural)
registration
insurance
health insurance
labor
misc metal supplies
chop saws
grinder
serious wiring - serious wiring
webspace
computers/laptops
domain
.44 per postage stamp (multiply away)
paper
pens
phones
Grow logs
accountant(s)
legal representation



and everything up above, i want the best of the best because I am growing medical for the great patients of the great state of NM. What is odd is that I get hundreds of emails from patients and they are all sooooo nice. Not once have I gotten a bad or nasty email. Its just so odd that such negative things are said on here about producers. MV, you should get a producers license. If you don't, you are just wasting everyones time.

did i forget 35% federal tax? (noone EVER mentions this)
7% to DOH (which i will never whine about)
Lets not forget the assistance program and possible donation to the neediest patients (which will be maximized)

Thats not even all either. I'm sure theres a bunch I can't think of. Alot of the expenses up there don't really even pertain to growing. As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.

And if you can't mix cement or weld like a champ - don't forget good ole labor. I don't know how others are doing it up, but at Budding Hope, we are doing the best we can - and I am inclined to believe that we are doing pretty good and doing this RIGHT. And patients, please understand that the MAJORITY of active producers currently licensed aren't even 6 months old. Registration for BH will begin middle of this month.

It took BH and most of the producers over a year to be licensed. The rest took even longer. Growing is only about 50% of the picture. The rest you can't even imagine until you are in the situation. Alot we haven't even encountered yet either.

---

Would you mind helping me out with some prices next to the long list you gave out?

So where did you get your experience growing for hundreds of patients, if you dont mind me asking?

I didnt realize the producers were building places from scratch, concrete, cinder blocks, welders, etc...
I figured they would just rent a warehouse, or a suitable building, glad to know you guys want the best of the best.

Looking at that extensive list, you have soil, soiless mix, RO units, hydroponic systems, so how many type of systems are you guys running?

And you also have 15000watts of light, and greenhouses. that sounds like quite the setup. whats the backhoes for? Do you have an outdoor setup as well?

We have alot going on :)

Lets just say one thing leads to another.

I didn't say we had experience growing medical for hundreds of patients. We have experience in large non cannabis greenhouse operations - though my personal grow experience is with cannabis. I was just saying the producing/growing/distribution situation is completely different from a smaller scale operation that most medical growers are used to. Its not impossible - Its not 'difficult' - but it is a much different animal than just a few lights x cost of power. Of course different producers have different plans. Can't and won't speak on their part. I can only speak about Budding Hope. I am only here to help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadSativa

just something I have noticed the state and the government is trying to segregate us from the rest of the populous and even each other (cardholders). it is easier to conquer when you foe is divided. simple to evade this is to not divide in fact these times are times for card holders to get together better, this is happening in Cali right now, and they are making an effort to put out their own propaganda effort and have even gotten a place on the ballot to legalize for recreational use not just medical.

the nation is now closer to 50% medical and there is still the question of is it medicine, that is the crime right their when the truth stares you in the face and you denied the truth. that is what a little over 50% of the nation is doing now, but even 10 years ago they had a way bigger lead and now were close to 50-50 soon the truth will pull more toward the light but not if we all wait for them to come to the light

---

Enjoying your recent posts greatly.......please contact me through email,my contact info is in my profile here.

My friends .2$ on the subject.

""NM patients........if you want to see what being a complacent patient will get you, look to your north @ our program(Colorado). There are reportedly 750 patients in my county alone yet I and a select few others are the only ones who willstand up in Public (it's on community TV here!) and speak out.

I personally think many patients down yer way have been hoodwinked into thinking the "producert' model is set up FOR THEM and not for PROFIT for those running such ops.

We would ALL love to see more reasonably priced meds...but in reality ANYTIME you buy goods from a BUSINESS you are paying for the product AND whatever it takes to offer the product....which in this case and in the case of the "Centers" here who RETAIL MMJ from storefronts includes the cost of growing the product, wages, rents, and all other costs that are simple PASSED ON to the patient.

Growing your own IS and WILL ALWAYS BE the answer."":thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BuddingHopeNM

.... As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.....

---

PLEASE understand this, we both have experience, I have been growing 8 years, and was a caregiver to several patients over many years out in hawaii.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BuddingHopeNM

....
.....I didn't say we had experience growing medical for hundreds of patients. We have experience in large non cannabis greenhouse operations - though my personal grow experience is with cannabis.... ..

---

You want me to take it from you, because you have "experience",to me that sounds like your are implying you know what you are talking about when it comes to producing for hundreds of patients.

So if you have not grown for hundreds of patients, where is your experience coming from, from your personal growing experience??
I do not see whats different than about your personal growing experiences and mine.:wtf:

As I type, we are producing for hundreds of patients. We are putting systems and procedures in place to enable us to do this at a professional level. It hasn't been but three months, but yes, I can tell you it is very different. As a person who has discussed the situation with other producers, it is very different because there are unforseen challenges.

You have great experience. You should write up a plan, create a non profit and apply for producership or a co-op. You can style it any way you like.

I am not here to give life stories on grow experience. We are remaining subtle and professional. We are here to help the patients of New Mexico.

And I am not implying. I am not assuming. When I say that large scale professional is different from a few thousand watts in a private room in your home...it is because it is.

I have to get back to work. If you have anything constructive, please email me and we can implement them. If you are looking for a board position, email me and we can meet. If you are looking to help the patients of New Mexico, start a non profit and apply to become a producer and help the patients. Sounds like you know the ropes, just gotta get in there.

I already have all the paperwork, have copies of two Approved producers applications, I just haven't decided if I want to throw my hat in the ring.


I get the feeling buddinghope you think the only way to make a change is to become a producer myself, I got to tell you, thats simply not the case. I am not trying to make money from sick folks, help them yes, take there last dollar, no.


It only takes one person to make a big change, don't ever forget that.

If I can help/force the producers to lower their prices even by half, then I will have helped more people in NM than if I started a production facility, the town I live in only has 8 patients who do not have PPL,(accordig to the DOH release earlier this year).

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

If anyone out there thinks one person can not make a difference, look at Stormy Ray from Oregon.

I personally do not agree with her 100% on her policies, but I have talked to several patients from Orgeon who do, several that don't.
It seems most patients support, most growers do not.
Go to the California section of any of the cannabis forums, most people who smoke pot want it legalized, but talk to some growers, I would say about 70-80%% of Californian growers want it to stay illegal, otherwise they may possibly loose their cash cow.


But regardless, Fellow Patients of NM, Don't ever count out your voice in making a change.



Ending the Medical Marijuana Gold Rush
by Stormy Ray

"As a patient, I know what it is like to suffer needlessly. As a mother, I know that disabilities and sickness strike indiscriminately. As a Grandmother, I know we must protect this valuable medicine so it will be available for all of us. As a citizen, I stand up because I care.

Many Oregonians have thanked me for my involvement in passage of last yearâ??s Senate Bill 1085, which amended and clarified Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program. I have also been harshly criticized for helping to remove the ambiguities within our law. The most important change SB-1085 made was giving the ownership of all medical marijuana produced, and marijuana plants grown, exclusively to the OMMP patient. The Oregon Medical Marijuana Act still allows patients to grow their own medicine and assign a caregiver to help them. A patient can assign their grow site card to their own location, the location of their caregiver, and now, to a person responsible for their grow site location. Patients can reimburse their caregiver or grower for the actual cost of electricity and garden supplies used to produce their medicine. Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor. And finally, caregivers and growers must surrender all medicine and plants to their patient upon request.

This is a good law, given what we are up against with current federal law. I believe that, for our program to have any credibility, we must separate the issue of medical marijuana from the legalization of marijuana. Over the last six years, I have stood against many attempts to take this program away from patients. This includes the 2004 ballot initiative Measure 33 that would have established dispensaries in Oregon. Giving ownership of the medicine to the caregivers and growers would have caused the same problems for us that it is causing in California, problems that threaten the survival of the program.

Although I strongly believe marijuana laws need to be revisited so that we can stop putting people in jail for something that should not be a crime, I cannot condone using sick and disabled people as pawns in this war on drugs.

It is my belief that there needs to be a way for all patients to access medical marijuana, but dispensaries like in California are not the answer. Prohibition and the black market have increased the street price of marijuana beyond what most patients can afford. As long as the price is artificially inflated by marijuanaâ??s prohibition, medical marijuana will never be sold at a reasonable price. California dispensaries are selling marijuana for higher prices than on the black market: a price that rivals that of gold. We need to stop the gold rush!

California dispensaries are out of control, jeopardizing medical marijuana not only in California but also for the entire United States. Many who supported medical marijuana in the past now question its validity. This cannot happen in Oregon!

During the 2005 legislative session, SB-1085 had strong bi-partisan support in both houses, and had strong support from the Oregon law enforcement community. SB-1085 created bright clear lines that both law enforcement and patients could understand.

The changes in SB-1085 preclude organizations and dispensaries from selling medical marijuana. Under Oregon law, only patients and their caregivers/growers are protected by the OMMP. Organizations and businesses cannot be registered cardholders and can never possess or control medical marijuana.

Patients can freely â??giveâ?� their excess medical marijuana away to other cardholders, but it remains illegal to sell marijuana to anyone in Oregon. Caregivers cannot decide how much medical marijuana their patients will receive from a harvest or decide where the excess medication will go. Caregivers should never charge their patients for their medicine by the ounce. Itâ??s against the law! All medicine belongs to the patient.

Medical marijuana has medicinal properties that are unlike all other medications. One patient experience I had just after measure 67 passed illustrates how badly this medicine is needed! A woman called and set an appointment for her husband who has cancer. They rescheduled their appointment because on the way over they ended up at the hospital. When I opened my hotel door, I wasnâ??t prepared for this man who was a ghastly grey color. Iâ??d never seen that color on a living body. His wife helped him to the nearest seat in the room. The intensity and desperation was like a heavy fog. I handed him a small pipe. He inhaled. I witnessed color come back into his face as he gave the â??Honey Iâ??m OKâ?� glances to his concerned wife as his breathing improved. I witnessed the tearful relief in her eyes as she saw his glances. This man regained his quality of life and was even able to return to his Sunday school class duties.

Medical marijuana must be protected for all of us because of the relief it gives to so many. No matter who you are, a sickness or disability can happen to you or to a loved one. Medical marijuana may not be a cure, but for over 14,000 registered Oregon Medical Marijuana Program patients, it means a better quality of life.

I would like to give a special thank you to Oregon caregivers and growers who selflessly help patients grow a garden and have the medicine they need. I would also like to invite anyone that would like to help a patient with their garden to become a part of this wonderful program.

Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Act protects caregivers and growers so they can help registered patients. Caregivers and growers can possess marijuana and have a medical marijuana garden at their location.

If you would like more information about Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program or about becoming a registered cardholder or caregiver, please contact the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation at 503-587-7434, or visit our web site at Stormy Ray Cardholders' Foundation
God Bless Oregon for this great program!

Stormy Ray has been active in the movement to legalize marijuana for the purposes of medical treatment for over a decade in Oregon. She was a Co-Chief Petitioner for Measure 67 that became the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act (OMMA) in 1998. The Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is a non-profit Oregon medical marijuana information and support organization dedicated to helping patients utilize this law. Stormy currently serves on the OMMPâ??s Advisory Committee on Medical Marijuana. Stormy has represented â??patientsâ?� on the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program (OMMP) Advisory Committee convened 3-23-06. She has served on the Oregon State Rehabilitation Advisory Council for two Governors, and the Federal Disabilities Determination Advisory Board for four years. As president of Malheur Butte Productions, a non-profit disabilities awareness organization, Stormy worked to help improve access, inclusion, and awareness for Oregonians with disabilities. She is currently the president of the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation (SRCF). As a non-profit, the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is successfully helping Oregonians understand what this medicine means to patients."

nice post hope patients in NM get the message and don't just sit idle.

last question BuddingHope.

Since most of the costs you listed are initial startup costs, after a year or two of operation, wouldn't it seem logical the price could be dropped significantly?
For instance if you buy a ballast, most ballast have a 5 year warranty, and you probably wont have to buy ballasts again, for at least 5years, most likely ten years,( i have had a ballast for 8 years now, still works great)
after all your welding is done, and your facility is done, you wont be doing constant construction, etc..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldhaole

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

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here are the requirements http://www.health.state.nm.us/idb/me...%206-28-10.pdf

Most certainly. However, its not about producers setting the price. There is a market price. Its sad. But yes there is a market price. Producers don't 'set' it. DOH doesn't 'set' it. The state doesn't 'set' it. Simple supply and demand sets it. Lets say all producers were to sell at 5.00 per gram. Patients would end up reselling it at 3x the cost....simply because there is not enough supply and too much demand. If we were to do that, DEA would be all over us. And that is the truth.

By becoming a producer, you would help a whole lot more people as opposed to complaining about the market price. When you grow your own, you are out of the market. When you buy or sell, you are part of the market.

If you have some Alan Greenspan skill at affecting the cannabis market that noone else knows, by all means have at it. But by petitioning and telling the DOH to 'set' the market price, that will absolutely never happen due to the simple economics of supply and demand. Add supply = lower prices. This is how you affect the market:

"Until the removal of cannabis from Schedule I drug status, reasonable and rational drug policy is adopted federally, more producers are licensed, the plant count is raised from 95, the federal stance on taxation on medical production and distribution facilities are agreed upon, market prices cannot be easily reduced."

Cannabis market is very localized because of the nature of cannabis. You likely aren't ingesting cannabis from 800+ miles away like we do toilet paper/food/tvs. Heck, everything we got nowadays is made in China. So that is why you see different prices in colorado and california. They are their own market. Markets don't necessarily take forever to change, but they require more than vocal persistence. They require action. More producers - more patients - more caregivers(that can actually tend plants) - larger plant limits - removal of Schedule I status - Federal acknowlegment of medical value - Federal Fiscal and taxation reform.

Look at colorado. Colorado blew up wild wild west. Thats why prices are what they are. Hopefully New Mexico can find some kind of happy - pun intended - medium. New Mexico program is great - but it is very young and it is not big enough to tackle the supply and demand of cannabis in New Mexico. When it does become big enough, you will surely see the market price go down. Thats the way markets work.

And yes, you should throw your hat in. Throw every hat you have. BH hasn't sold an ounce - literally. But it sure is very heartwarming to correspond with such nice patients and people in the program. We are here to help and we want to do this TOGETHER!:hippy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldhaole

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

---

Outdoor grows are do-able. I had 3 plants in a backyard garden, urban residential neighborhood. High cement block walls. Pit bull.

Cost? I guess I could say the price of a bag of potting soil, since they were temporarily in pots.

It was a great experience for a first legal grow. :) And the end result is :D :D :D

You just have to look to California or Colorado to see how incredibly flawed your logic is, prices in California have stayed the same at the compassion clubs since 215 was first passed many many years ago. even though wholesale prices from growers have fallen tremendously.

You personally said the producers are not setting the price, they are using the current market price, the current market price IS INFLATED DUE TO CANNABIS PROHIBITION, and its being a Black Market Item.

And you say the current market price is sad, so are you agreeing it should be lowered, and the prices currently being charged are ridiculous?



You can have hundreds upon hundreds of producers like California or a handful like here, regardless prices will not come down when people are getting rich.

Also your reselling logic is full of holes, what is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH should let people suffer just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.

Stormy Ray has had an "Allan Greenspan" type effect on the cannabis market it oregon, is that why you keep telling Mimbres Valley to become a producer and not an activist, cause you are worried he will kill your cash cow?

Google Stormy Ray, I also do not agree with her policies totally, but MV is totally right about one person being able to make a huge change.


BuddingHope I have read your posts you seem like you really are interested in helping the patients of NM, maybe you are not trying to cash in on the folks of NM.
Why you are so against lowering prices for sick patients, I have no idea!

But to sit here and tell people that prices will come down once there are more producers is just rubbish. Especially when the producers are all in a "guild" with the same people serving on multiple boards.
That is not a free market, that is a monopoly.

Im going to say this again,

What is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH should let people suffer just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.

I don't have time to argue economics. I never said I was against lowering prices. Plant limit for patients is "adequate supply", not abundant supply. How can you have a monopoly when you have a 95 plant limit?? There are growers out there with 4-10 times the amount of plants producers have. Hope your application goes well. Budding Hope is here to help patients in any capacity. Shoot me an email. That is all. :thumbsup:

You bring up economics, and when I lay your misguided ideas to rest of more producers equaling lower prices, you no longer have time to talk about it, ok:thumbsup:


You said" Lets say all producers were to sell at 5.00 per gram. Patients would end up reselling it at 3x the cost....simply because there is not enough supply and too much demand. If we were to do that, DEA would be all over us. And that is the truth."

Bro that is a lie, and its MAKES NO SENSE!

Would you care to touch on what is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH want to keep the prices sky high just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.
NO SENSE!



MV also said"
So lets say it costs 3,000.00$ to produce a pound of cannabis after all the expenses are taken into consideration, rental space, gas, security, payroll, that a producer might run into.
All the things that I do not have to deal with as a personal producer.

If they harvest 50 pounds off their 95 plants ever 4 months, the company would still be making 141,120.00$ every 4 months, charging 13.00$ a gram.

That is still a profit of 141,120.00$ every 4 months, that is 423,600.00$ dollars a year profit.
That should more than cover all start up costs associated with getting the company up and running.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
talk about hitting the nail on the head!

Prices need to drop yes
we all need to ban together yes
who fucking cares if the producers have a guild let them come together and work as a team rather then trying to compete. I personally feel that makes for a much friendlier environment.
We all are different, we eat, shower,dress, talk ,learn,sleep,grow, etc differently so sure one guy can grow a pound for $300 awesome bravo for you dude. We got the point. All i have to say is WTF are we fighting about there are real people (paitients) out there and i am one that have ZERO medication and Plants that are no where near ready to flower and we cant afford to buy 3 gm worth of medication. Right now i am shit out of luck i have enough medication to last till saturday (maybe) and every single one of my plants died. I have no friggin clue what happen. I am going to pop some mystery seeds and pray that they take. The point i am trying to make is that instead of us fighting over who has the best growing method how about we all paitients, producers, and advocates need to come together and figure out a solution. Stop the fighting act like grown ups and come up with a solution not another problem. Im done thats my 2 cents.

Besides this post was not intended to be a fight what i originally posted has nothing to do with what we are all fighting about. I never even did get my question answered which is ok becasue i figured it out on my own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MimbresValley

I already have all the paperwork, have copies of two Approved producers applications, I just haven't decided if I want to throw my hat in the ring.


I get the feeling buddinghope you think the only way to make a change is to become a producer myself, I got to tell you, thats simply not the case. I am not trying to make money from sick folks, help them yes, take there last dollar, no.


It only takes one person to make a big change, don't ever forget that.

If I can help/force the producers to lower their prices even by half, then I will have helped more people in NM than if I started a production facility, the town I live in only has 8 patients who do not have PPL,(accordig to the DOH release earlier this year).

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It takes a small person to bitch and complain and a bigger person to actually DO something. Mimsy, until you man up and at the very least apply for a license you are just flapping your pie whole and wasting time. The chip you have on shoulder with the producers is obvious. What you are doing better then any of the producers has yet to be seen. Please, do show us Mimsy, show all of us. Don't just show us little spread sheets, pictures of other folks grows, long quotes from other people's websites or scans from books.... No Mimsy, lets see some REAL proof you actually know what you are talking about.

MAN-UP AND BRING THE $300 A POUND
MEDICAL GRADE CANNABIS TO THIS MARKET!!!

IF YOU CANNOT OR WILL NOT THEN
I GUESS WE WILL HAVE OUR ANSWER AFTER ALL!
:thumbsup:
WHAT WILL IT BE MIMSY???

I do not know what MV is doing, But I personally am going the Stormy Ray way, Have been in contact with her, she is going to help get the ball rolling down here in NM.:thumbsup:
And what producer do you work for PatientNM?

Also PatientNM
If you look I was the first one to put up the numbers for the 300.00$ pound.
I was not saying that is how much the producers should charge, Just how much it costs me to grow personally, just taking electricity and nutrients into consideration.
When someone asked deserthearler how much she spent for her grow, she said a bag of soil.

As a fellow patient how how much would you estimate it cost you to grow your own meds? I would really like to hear your numbers???????????????????

I never said the producers should be offereing 300.00$lbs
I don't think MV did either, though I could be wrong, have not really been following along lately.

" Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor. And finally, caregivers and growers must surrender all medicine and plants to their patient upon request."

That is the Stormy Ray way, its either one of two extremes have the producers with all the say, or the patients with all the say.

I would rather be somewhere in the middle, but I doubt that will happen, so yeah, I would support Stormy Rays model, the whole point of this program is the patients of NM, not the producers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DemingNonProfit

[B]
the whole point of this program is the patients of NM, not the producers.

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I agree this program was not setup for the producers it was setup for us. So i think all of you that think you can do things better and more cost effective then by all means do it. I chose to grow for myself becasue i cant afford to purchase. So maybe instead of us fighting about lowering prices why dont we start educating the paitients that cant grow becasue they dont know how or helping them find someone to grow for them. They only way there will be a constiant supply is if we stop purchasing. Even if 3/4 of us grew that is 3/4 of the producers medication that is not purchased. Now you figure if they went from selling the product in a matter of weeks to not selling all of it and having alot left over, and then you realize bills are coming in and since the money you brought in wasnt the same as last month they are gonna discount medication so the can bring in the money needed to pay the bills. That is all IMO and dont want to start a fight i just want to help us paitients. I dont have the money or the expierence to become a producer or i would so the only way i can help is by giving my advice.

Lets grow our own and help educate the others.