Printable View
if you have your shit down, and if you are in business for the primary purpose of supplying other MMCs (which would be THE business model to be in, IMO) why wouldn't you? Developing good business relationships and a dependable supply chain is how business works.Quote:
For example, say The Releaf Center had a massive crop failure. We may have a lot of crop, but not much of it is usable. Why would another shop want to keep us in business? Or why wouldn't they price gouge?
The problem is that it cant be your primary purpose. You can only sell 30% or your volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
If demand is higher than supply, which I argue it will be, then they'll need to be selective about who they wholesale to. They're also constrained by the 30% rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
If Coke found out that Pepsi couldn't produce any soda, would they wholesale to them or watch them go down in flames?
really? I thought it was that you could only BUY 30% of your volume?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
that would be handled by the market (price) if we're really running like businesses. the strong survive...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter
There's this:Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
(4) NOTWITHSTANDING THE REQUIREMENTS OF SUBSECTION (3) OF
THIS SECTION TO THE CONTRARY, A MEDICAL MARIJUANA LICENSEE MAY
PURCHASE NOT MORE THAN THIRTY PERCENT OF ITS TOTAL ON-HAND
INVENTORY OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA FROM ANOTHER LICENSED MEDICAL
MARIJUANA CENTER IN COLORADO. A MEDICAL MARIJUANA CENTER MAY
SELL NO MORE THAN THIRTY PERCENT OF ITS TOTAL ON-HAND INVENTORY
TO ANOTHER COLORADO LICENSED MEDICAL MARIJUANA LICENSEE.
Additionally your plant count will be based on patient count. So you would have to supply them as well off of your numbers. Wholesaling would be great, but they eliminated it by design.
I'm curious about your statement that the industry "needed" regulation. Based on what? The potential danger of the product? How about bicycle shops? Do they need regulation?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
What about hair-braiding? Ice skating rinks? I challenge anyone to come up with justification for government interference with cannabis, medical or not, at any level.
We can start off with accountability of product that is destined for sick people. A good number of dispensaries would buy from random vendors that brought product to the back door. It was paid for with cash, got marked up, and then went out the front door.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
What if there was a problem with the product from contamination... how could you identify the source it if everything was paid in cash and nothing was tracked ?
Your challenge was too easy...:)
When folks say "vendors", does this mean you can buy a blunt, joint, baggie, brownie, etc from a vending machine out there in CA? If not yet that would be a great idea. Is this possible? Thanks. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter
What the heck IS that thing in your avatar pic? It's been driving me crazy for months!!!!! A baby bird? A mouse? An obscene body part? :what:Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
it's a lemming I think... or a baby mole...
doh.
Why do you need the government forcing you to do what you should be doing anyway, both as an obligation to your patients and as good business to see that they come back. Fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
Its a mole, signifying my determination to remain underground as a protest against the whole concept of "medical" marijuana and the government interference it has brought down on our heads, not to mention a lot of holier than thou posturingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ocotillo
I challenge you to come up with another agricultural commodity that is not heavily regulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
Your examples are not relative to mmj... something closer would be tobacco, and maybe foodcrops that are sold fresh.
Because the industry was not doing it on it's own. I'm pretty sure that you could see that based on my example. Meds came in the back door, then went out the front door with no accountability.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
Even if you get bad Tomatoes at the grocery store, they can track it back to exactly which farm it came from. Why should Medical Cannabis be any different ?
Should shops have tracked the source? Yes
Did they ? No
Welcome to government intervention.
Wow, that is a bizarre looking little critter. I love the symbolism though.
Here is an even more scary pic of a mole:Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
Note, people who are easily frightened may NOT want to open the pic.
Holey Moley!
The tomatoes and strawberries and cukes I grow in my backyard aren't regulated at all, so why should the cannabis I grow in my basement be regulated, or worse yet banned outright. I didn't ask for a list of other things that are needlessly regulated, I asked for a reason why this particular commodity cries out for regulation. I see no reason why tobacco should be regulated eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Kartel
The market regulates that kind of shit all by itself. If you sell contaminated "medicine," don't you think people will find out? Don't you think that would affect your business? That's the feedback loop that works, at least when the government stays out of things. Isn't the threat to your livelihood enough to make you want to keep track of your sources on your own? That is real accountability.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
Give me an example of how this industry could successfully regulate itself as a free market. Would there be absolutely no government interference? Certainly there will be those who will try to manipulate the market...Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
It was regulating itself quite well the past 10 years. No easier and better way to manipulate the market than through one sided legislation.Quote:
Originally Posted by colagal
Not really. Eight of the last ten years the DEA was riding around like cowboys kicking down doors nationwide. Only a fraction of Colorado's potential patients were being served in the days before Obama and dispensaries. The status quo is much better for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedleppelin
So as an example if King Soopers sold some E-Coli hamburger you would just stop shopping there? What about the 10 other stores that are also selling from the same vendor?Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
In the food sales industry, if there is an issue with a product there is a means to pull the product from shelves everywhere it exists.
If some vendor got crazy killing off the mites with avid 7 weeks into flower then hawked it at numerous shops, how could anybody know where it is to recall it?
Why do you think they killed off the vendor sales to dispensaries and forced dispensaries to grow their own ?
King Soopers doesn't take Tomatoes from random backyard farmers for a reason...
The insinuation above that meds grown by caregivers are full of chems and the meds grown by dispensaries are somehow better/safer is such a crock. Who will be more likely to use drastic measures to save a crop...the guy with a few plants in his basement, or the guy who's ENTIRE livlihood and the existence of his dispensary is hinging on his one warehose that is full of mites and PM?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
Get real.
The State is requiring the dispensaries to grow their own and cut off the caregiver sales because of REVENUE/TAX INCOME...nothing else. This is the SAME reason CM has to buy tomatoes from licensed seller. It ISN'T about >quality<, it is about tracking $$$ to collect TAXES ON THOSE SALES.
Nothin more.
Ditto with MMJ.... The Revenue Dept cares not about the QUALITY of the pot grown, just want you to grow and sell as much "medical marijuana" as you can so they can collect tax money off it. Nothing else. Don't be fooled into thinking ANY of this was done with the average patient in mind or that it is about "quality control". It isn't. It's about the MONEY.
No, King Soopers doesn't buy local produce. That's why the tomatoes are green and hard..just like the fruit. It's MASS PRODUCED and held in cold storage until needed...and it's dumped on the market for the consumer to buy "as is", which is usually a gig where you have to take it home and ripen it (in the MMJ world, DRY IT OUT cus the dispensary sold it wet for weight) before you can eat it.
Welcome to the world of mass produced warehouse "med" pot! Coming soon to a patient near you....
Cannabis has been grown, bought, and sold for as long as there have been people, and I have been participating in that market in one way or another for about 40 years, and not once has the thought entered my head that "boy, I sure wish the government would get involved in this market. We really need regulating." Many posters on this site act as if is this is all new with the advent of "medical" marijuana. Trust me, it is not. As a matter of policy, ALL DRUGS, and most particularly cannabis, should be totally unregulated, except by the market itself, AND AVAILABLE TO ANY ADULT WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION AND WITHOUT LIMITATION. Deaths from acetaminophen number close to 1000 per year, and yet a 10 year old can walk into the grocery and buy 10 bottles of tylenol. There is absolutely no justification for treating cannabis any differently.
.. and the reason is not because the government tells them they can't. It's because they have to be accountable to their customers to stay in business.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
You are absolutely 100% correct. And my tomatoes are WAY better than King Soopers' too!Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
regulation isn't going to stop use of pesticides, nor will it end up on most labels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ
if someone sprayed with avid on week seven, we'd smoke and never know.
what about farmers markets and all the little organic growers that sell to restaurants and people outside of the shopping CENTERS.
this regulation does nothing but protect the dispensaries, the big dispensaries especially.
they've re-gathered our rights, and they are selling them off.
I've never heard of anyone who wanted to buy marijuana not being able to find some.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
It's been quite the scam/sham, hasn't it? Before last summer the patient-base was keeping fair pace with the needs of those who were truly qualified to enter the program. Yes there were glitches and it took pop-po awhile to get on board, but we were certainly making progress and NO ONE WAS REALLY WATCHING what was going on behind the scenes!
It wasn't until the dispensaries started signing up anyone with the $$ to play and started CREATING a larger need for "medical" marijuana that the illusion was created that there was a need for more dispensaries. (i, e. "supply") Once the neon pot leaves hit and the roadside signs went up the 'secret' game we had going was exposed and the changes came down the sewer pipe for all.
I like yer unregulated scenario, senor, especially in the marijuana world. Such legality and prevelance would squish this cureent >greed-based< model flat and would seperate out, much as we had previously/before july 20th 2009, those who are in this to help others and interested in moving things forward at a reasonable pace, and those who are only in this for themselves.
more change will come and I'll wager it won't be in favor of the current model.
I will be in to see you guys again in 4-6 weeks - "sell no wine before its time":smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReleafCenter
Probably not since September 1 is the day they stop buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by budsndrums
Well, during the past 40 years (I was around during Woodstock as well), it wasn't exactly a free market until recently. It was an underground market. Nonetheless, people were free to OD as they wished, which they did often...but probably not as fatally as other drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
Generally, whether it is mm, or tomatoes, or any good, I suspect people nowadays prefer to shop at centers - much more convenient, there are more choices, etc. And the centers certainly took advantage once it became more of a free market....just like any commodity. Regulation is inevitable for the "public good" at these scales, especially when trying to legalize it. Not saying regulation is always effective, (probably mostly ineffective) but, even though it appears the general public distrusts government, they still look to government to help provide assurances - a kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't situation if you are in government.Quote:
It wasn't until the dispensaries started signing up anyone with the $$ to play and started CREATING a larger need for "medical" marijuana that the illusion was created that there was a need for more dispensaries. (i, e. "supply") Once the neon pot leaves hit and the roadside signs went up the 'secret' game we had going was exposed and the changes came down the sewer pipe for all.
I like yer unregulated scenario, senor, especially in the marijuana world. Such legality and prevelance would squish this cureent >greed-based< model flat and would seperate out, much as we had previously/before july 20th 2009, those who are in this to help others and interested in moving things forward at a reasonable pace, and those who are only in this for themselves.
No, I did not think it would. But if there was an issue with somebody's product you could track where it went and recall it.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
I'm pretty sure testing is coming, and not too far down the timeline.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
They likely provide and invoice and contact info of some sort. If there was an issue it could be tracked. Vendors had always been cloaked in anonymity.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
I don't know how you can say that when a good portion of them were forced to close. The remaining ones were scrambling to hire growers. No protection is offered. The DEA can still kick in any door they want tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
Yes, I believe that the 5 caregiver limit is wrong and most likely unconstitutional. Don't get me wrong there. There was already enough business for to support the caregiver model in addition to to the dispensary model. Dispensaries did not need this bill to gain market share. However, I believe that the restriction was made to prevent 10kw+ grows in neighborhood basements when they should probably be in commercial/industrial locations.
Welcome to America... it's what we do to ourselves :(Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
I'm pretty sure that I wasn't insinuating that caregivers hose down their crops with a bunch of shit. The caregivers that I know do a great job of growing a quality product. You wanted an example, I provided a scenario where it would be good to know where the product came from besides "in through the back door from some guy".Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
RE: "Get real" Is that really necessary in a otherwise healthy discussion?
If that was the case, wouldn't they be requiring caregivers to pay sales taxes each month on sales? Instead they required the product sold for cost and charged additional for "service". There is no tax on service. When was the last time you paid sales tax ?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
You are convinced that a quality product can not be produced in a space larger than your basement. If the strains are the same, and the conditions are optimal, what makes the quality falter? Or are you saying that every commercial warehouse just grows 10,000 sf of Big Bud?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
Sorry about the get real comment.
FYI...I paid sales taxes the entire time I operated a retail business. Employee taxes too. FICA, Medicaid, etc. on top of that. That's cus it was a business with a storefront ya drive to that sold to anyone who walked in the door with the cash. (just like a dispensary is a business)
Up until 1284 passed I would have gladly pay sales tax on any med sales made. However, since they basically took my Amendment 20 RIGHTS away with 1284, there's just no way in Hell I would say the same thing today!
I believe that Patient groups are gonna boom very soon as supply wanes and fluctuates and the dispensaries become unreliable. By networking patients will be able to circumvent the entire dispensary model.
Crop quality from warehouse grows is yet to be seen. Basement grows have proven success to date and are what got this "industry" it's start.
And as far as the 5 patient cap somehow limiting 10K grows in residential neighorhoods...
I currently light 6 plants in bloom with 6K. I have 5 cards @ present. While I can currently take care of all of my patients needs with those 6 plants there is NOTHING that limits my right to set up as many lights as I need to cover the plant count (15 in flower) I am legally allowed under 1284/A20.
It's all good. I enjoy a good discussion until people start pointing out what a prick I am. I like to save that for people that know me personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
I'm not so sure that the supply is going to be as short as you think. There are some very large gardens in development across the state. If anything, I believe the market will become saturated. In the end that will be good for patients as the price point falls across the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
I know people discuss the patient to patient sales, however I'm not yet convinced on the legality of that one yet. Somebody will have to run it through the courts to establish precedence.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
Yes, and that's where we started too. I can honestly say that the quality is the same. The warehouse has fewer heat issues and better ventilation so it may even be better. Quality has to do with strain, attention to detail, good nutes, lights, flushing properly, and not screwing it up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
Right, and that's the problem they were adressing. If you are running 1k light per plant x your 15 plants that's 9x15 or 45-50 amps of power and heat. That is a LOT for a residence. If they had allowed 20 patients that would add up to like a bazillion amps. It would be like the Clark Griswold's house at Christmas time.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
I was trying to infer that due to the dangers of pulling that much power over crappy residential wiring could prove to be a real issue if not done properly. You may be doing it right, but the next guy??? Lots of amps should probably be in industrial area was my point.
Not trying to say the 5 patient cap was right, just pointing out why they may have gone there.
I here ya about "why" they THINK they are going there with such plant restrictions, but the dumbasses in power just don't understand that there are folks like me out there who...if SOMEHOW throttled back by zoning (I'll fight this in court) will merely DOUBLE their lighting to make up the slack that plant restrictions can impose!!
If I have to I'll light my 6 plants with that 20K of light they don't want in my home...lighting up the neighborhood like a Wal-Mart parking lot just to SPITE them....then I'll invite them over for tea and crumpets to check it all out. (the cops have been IN my med garden before and had to leave empty handed..WAHHHH) My home. my rights. Fuck off.
In other words... I too, am a prick. While others are afraid to speak/show their face I've been at every county meeting involving MMJ. they KNOW where I live and what I do and that i'm not gonna be silent and listen to their uninformed crap.
Pateint to patient sales may not be fully 'legal' under 1284 but the fact of the matter is that, like dealing illegally (which most of us did pre-med..don't lie, folks), it is very, very hard to track/prosecute such sales...(or most of us wouldn't be here right now...LOL) and yes,an arrest of this nature WILL be challenged in court because many of us believe that A-20 is unchangeable EXCEPT by a vote of the people. FWIW, I feel 100% that the dispensary model should have gone to a vote BEFORE regs were made to regulate it/legitimize it.
I wish you (your crew?) well in growing that warehouse full. I hope all the folks you employ hourly to tend this massive amount of ganja (and trim..holy shit..) care as much as you seem to care! Not ALL operations will be so "quality focused".
blackhash
Ahhhh the internets... the only place I know where a couple of pricks can come together for a common good :rasta:Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhash
I think that's the crux of the problem. You have very few people out there with the 501+ MMC license who will be in control of a vast majority of the supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCoMMJ