The economics of MMJ?

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

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Originally Posted by Justabloke

:angry3:

Wow! I have to say I take great exception to that!!!

I was down at NatuRx where Dianna took VERY good care of me and has some of the lowest priced (top shelf) meds. I paid $43 an 1/8 for some outstanding White Widow X Northern Lights.

She, also, has high-quality meds for around $38 an 1/8? If she can do it anyone can do it. Yes, I think everyone who is legally able should make money as it is the way they make their living in most cases. But price gougeing like many of them do is totally unacceptable in this day and age. We're legal now...we should have to pay street prices or worse MORE.

So as I'm checking out, I asked if they had a donation jar where patients could donate towards other patients who don't enough money for their meds. She told me they did not. So I said as I slid a $1 over the counter "can you pay this forward to a patient who doesn't have enough, please?"

I did it out of compassion knowing how hard it can be to get and keep your stock of meds. I'll prolly never know who not only this dollar but many others I have donated towards patients and their need for meds.

I think if we all did that not only for other patients but to fight stupid stuff like 1284 we'd be in a MUCH better spot! Yes that is in spite of the fact that many disps got ripped off and sold down the river by a core group of people who were supposed to be activists.

What I did I did out of compassion for fellow patients/humans who I'll prolly never meet. I just hope my dollar goes to help someone that needs it and maybe the good karma will come back to me someday when I need it.

In fact, in some ways it already has. Jake over at RLC offered me a free joint (which I completely intend on takeing him up on when I'm over that way!!! lol)

If we were all a lil more compassionate not only would OUR community be a whole lot better, our COUNTRY would be a whole lot better too.

That's just my (not so) humble opinion. Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you must and YES I DO hug trees too! ROFL

JaB

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i think it was ment as in the whole bs basis that mmj is built on.it's ok for you to use but not the"bloke" down the street? how is it compassion to allow 1 group to do something when everyone should be allowed to do it to.as in the people that allow mmj"the gov" based on"compassion" let me ask you does this bill they just passed look like compassion to you?

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Originally Posted by rum2run

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

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agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

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Originally Posted by starter09

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

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I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

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Originally Posted by throatstick

agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

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lol I tryed that once. It didn't work.

j

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Originally Posted by puntacometa

I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

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Did anyone actually read his post? The numbers were from a source online. He clearly states at the end that he's learning how to grow and doesn't have the experience to know whether they're good numbers or not.

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Originally Posted by starter09

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

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I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.

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Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

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Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.

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Originally Posted by Dorje113

Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.

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LOL--yeah you bet--LOL What's your veg time--5 years--LOL?

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

LOL--yeah you bet--LOL What's your veg time--5 years--LOL?

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sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...

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Originally Posted by MEDEDCANNABIS

your forgetting about down time there is gap in production to patient time. your legal fees , consultation,and biz plan way too low. 50-100lbs are you kidding?? at that rate you will need a much higher service bill. and as a pro you will need to accomadate pros and cons that are inherent with growing. losses are the same for indoor as for outdoor.

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

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He's also forgetting about nutes and (if he's growing in dirt) soil....big expense there unless you have lots of rotted manure laying around. Also there's the Serenade and/or other PM control remedies he may need for his outdoor grow if he doesn't want to just shitcan the plants if some of his strains start showing those wonderful little gray spots and the "organic" insecticides he will need for the rest of the winter the minute he sees the first mite damage in his indoor grow room....oh yeah.....20 x 1000W HID's with 12 of them running 12/12 and 8 of them running 18 x 6 is going to cost around $1100.00 per month......plus the occasional bulb replacement (these ain't cheap)...plus he's going to need a couple of extra ballasts and a few extra bulbs on hand at all times...just in case.

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Originally Posted by throatstick

sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...

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Yeah--whatever--LOL

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Yeah--whatever--LOL

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really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..

Both DoubleD & Heath are growing some monsters! But it's taken them trial & error, lots of learning experience and getting everything dialed in. Luckily for the rest of us, we can learn from their mistakes and get great yields. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan

Both DoubleD & Heath are growing some monsters! But it's taken them trial & error, lots of learning experience and getting everything dialed in. Luckily for the rest of us, we can learn from their mistakes and get great yields. :thumbsup:

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yup,,,so you know im not making shit up then.and yes they have alot of money tied up in what they are doing but it works.heck i pulled 30 oz's off 2 plants on my very first grow.it's all about how aware you are and if you have ever had a passion in your life then you know how knowledge thristy you can get.it's like you're brain becomes new again and you can't get enough.the whole he's got a green thumb is not true. it's more like this person took the time to gain the knowledge needed cause they want to be great at what they do.thats anything in life tho.most don't have that fire thats needed they just don't for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by throatstick

really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..

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Thanks for the info-I will look it up--but I am assuming by your comment that says "doubled's grows" that you are using 2 clones per each which equates to two plants? I am talking about 1 plant. I know one dispensory--owner grower in another state that produces alot for their patients-and has been doing so for years. Even they state do not expect more than 4 0z. per plant--regardless of the plant. They use the most expensive soil-- nutrients (again the most expensive) and 1000 watt lights everywhere--heating--cooling systems--fresh filter air, CO2 etc. etc. 4 oz's max per plant.

Even the dispensory I use in Colorado can't seem to get more than 13 grams per plant from SSI. And he has been growing for years also. He is always behind the 8 ball because he runs out so fast--and there is so much demand from his patients for it.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Thanks for the info-I will look it up--but I am assuming by your comment that says "doubled's grows" that you are using 2 clones per each which equates to two plants? I am talking about 1 plant. I know one dispensory--owner grower in another state that produces alot for their patients-and has been doing so for years. Even they state do not expect more than 4 0z. per plant--regardless of the plant. They use the most expensive soil-- nutrients (again the most expensive) and 1000 watt lights everywhere--heating--cooling systems--fresh filter air, CO2 etc. etc. 4 oz's max per plant.

Even the dispensory I use in Colorado can't seem to get more than 13 grams per plant from SSI. And he has been growing for years also. He is always behind the 8 ball because he runs out so fast--and there is so much demand from his patients for it.

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To add to my comment--I am talking about professional growers that have had years and years of experience with indoor growing--that have tried everything in the book to get their yeilds per plant UP. To add--their veg time is a minimum of 6 weeks.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Yeah--whatever--LOL

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throatstick - what method are you using? dwc?

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Originally Posted by throatstick

sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...

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Yea I did 4.5 pounds per plant last harvest. Oh shit I forgot I weighed the stems, the dirt, the container and so on. Well it sounded good. But I did have a dream one time awhile back were I did several pounds per plant indoors.

If you or your friends are growing and getting 3 pounds per-plant indoors then please do give all of us some growing advise. Hell, I will even settle for 12 plus oz per plant.

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Originally Posted by throatstick

really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..

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Yeah--I just looked this system up--very complicated--meaning also very delicate. Have tried hydro before-very unforgiving-one little mistake and the entire crop is toast. I read most of the articles Robinson has posted and not anywhere did I find that he "says" to expect 1 lb. or more in yield per plant.

I hope he is successful at this experiment. If he is--he should patten the idea and sell it.

Again--the professional indoor growers/dispensory owners-whom have been doing it for years--that I know--are happy to get 4 oz. per plant.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

Yeah--I just looked this system up--very complicated--meaning also very delicate. Have tried hydro before-very unforgiving-one little mistake and the entire crop is toast. I read most of the articles Robinson has posted and not anywhere did I find that he "says" to expect 1 lb. or more in yield per plant.

I hope he is successful at this experiment. If he is--he should patten the idea and sell it.

Again--the professional indoor growers/dispensory owners-whom have been doing it for years--that I know--are happy to get 4 oz. per plant.

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if ya go back and read what i posted from the start it says just that.you have to dump alot of money into it to grow BIG BUT IT CAN BE DONE.show me where i ever stated it could be done in a closet with cfl's?but there is a way thats not hard and it does'nt cost the big money where you can yeild good.to say that dispensaries are professional growers is pretty funny.most don't know shit about it and the others know alittle.very few know how to grow.also colorado is chalked full of wannabes too since it is med legal everyone has flooded in thinking it's just a weed and will grow by just throwing seeds in the wind....the rest think they are professional growers cause they have a few cfls in a closet and bought the best nutes the hydro store owner told them to buy......


btw i have yet to find a real grower that would give out good growing knowledge advice due to sarcasm....if i weighed in the stalks stems bins and so on i'd have way more than a couple lbs per light......

all in all do what makes ya happy so enjoy, peace...

Here in Colorado, Texas Kid, Sky High, and True Grit are all killing it. TK is getting something like a couple of pounds per plant. Sky High looks like he's going to pull about the same amount this coming harvest. And Gritty easily pulls a lb+

In case you didn't know "DoubleDs" is a username on another forum, NOT two clones per bucket - like someone earlier said. He's up in Canada and has pulled over 4lbs per plant. The system he's put together is a little complicated and definitely not for beginners. So much can go wrong and go wrong very quickly. It's similar to Current Culture's UnderCurrent Evolution XXL 13 system, the main difference being the water flow (one is being pushed, the other is pulled). DoubleD's system is supposed to be coming on the market I think in the fall. I know several people locally who have a UC system and they have had some great harvests!

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Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan

Here in Colorado, Texas Kid, Sky High, and True Grit are all killing it. TK is getting something like a couple of pounds per plant. Sky High looks like he's going to pull about the same amount this coming harvest. And Gritty easily pulls a lb+

In case you didn't know "DoubleDs" is a username on another forum, NOT two clones per bucket - like someone earlier said. He's up in Canada and has pulled over 4lbs per plant. The system he's put together is a little complicated and definitely not for beginners. So much can go wrong and go wrong very quickly. It's similar to Current Culture's UnderCurrent Evolution XXL 13 system, the main difference being the water flow (one is being pushed, the other is pulled). DoubleD's system is supposed to be coming on the market I think in the fall. I know several people locally who have a UC system and they have had some great harvests!

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LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

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i can tell ya what thai just talked about is not spamming or fake.i've talked to tk b4 and seen his grows on another forum he is legit.uc and dd's system is legit too.no need to get all pissed off just because your "pro grower" told ya it's a lie.dude must not have come outta the mountains in a long time or something?

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Originally Posted by copobo

throatstick - what method are you using? dwc?

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i mixed 2 methods i built my own system.dwc x aero mix.2 weeks i.....well it's all bs tho so who cares right.....lol all i can say is i don't pull dd's or the likes there of's ## but my system is simple small does'nt cost alot and i do well enough for how simple it is.sure i could fork out the big bucks and go big but im not in a spot to do that just yet.

i started out with this never grew anything in my life b4 this and my first harvest was 30oz dry off 2 plants.the strain was crystal,it's not a known yeilder but it does ok. i think rightwinger may have what im saying mixed up? this is not soil i don't think i have ever seen this done in soil,i don't believe it can be done in soil on this time frame.


btw i grow bushes not trees or single topped plants.......

i just reread that and it came off as if i just started growing lol.not at all i ment that when i first started growing that was what i did.i never grew veggies or had a garden.i started out with this sytem and hydro.i read up on gardening for 2 nites in a row and the diffrent types of systems.but i always like to do my own thing. so i built that system and went from there. to be honest it don't matter to me if no one believes me. i know what i have done and still do.the people i gave it all to knows the truth too,they could'nt believe it. cause i never delt with pot in anyway b4 i started growing.they thought i was full of shit too cause they knew growers and saw what the norm was.well i would'nt say "growers"i mean there was a few that grew in the past and they would have to sog a room to get any weight.

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

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Hahaha! Wow really!?! I'm spamming? How so?

Just because you know people who have been doing the same thing for YEARS doesn't mean they are doing it right or that they are pushing things to the max. So much depends on strain itself. Some produce, some don't. I love Jack Herer but I can't get it to yield hardly anything but what it does is pure bliss. Now Trainwreck I can pull quite a bit, but I don't like it and I think it's a pain to grow (too much support needed). Big Bud is the same way - huge yield, but it's not for me. 4 oz/plant is pretty much average for people who just let nature take it's course. But there are people out there who push the envelope and are getting huge yields. Am I getting those yields - no but this isn't a fulltime gig for me nor I have poured a ton of money into it. Depending on what strain I'm running, I usually get a decent yield especially if it's a strain I've run before and journaled the previous grow. So often people continue to make the same mistakes over & over again because they don't take the few minutes a day to journal what they have done. I also have a few buckets that I just let nature do it's thing mostly just due to lack of time and I want to see what happens before I start to tweak anything. Personally I think that's the best thing to do when you first run a strain. Just let it grow and see what it does, that way you have a idea if any changes you make help or hurt.

And why so hostile? Why are you taking this so personal? I never said you & your friends suck at growing, just that there are individuals out there that are killin' it when it comes to huge grows! I'm in awe myself and if I hadn't seen pics and in some cases in person - I wouldn't believe it either.

Spamming - ummm pretty sure I'm not advertising fake Viagra or posting false info or posting repeatedly the same info over & over again. Maybe you're a little confused what spam is. And I'm talking about spam on an internet board, not the canned meat-like product (which I grew to love when I live in Hawaii & Guam) - just so you're clear.

Anyway, I hope you finally get some decent yields and I hope it's good medicine for you. You definitely need to relax. It's a plant that should bring you joy & pain relief. Seems to just put you in a pissy mood. I recommend maybe switching to a different strain (Jack Herer is great!) or maybe go back to taking your pysch meds. Talk to your doctor about maybe getting on Wellbutrin - I've seen it work wonders in people's personalities, maybe it'll help yours. Or if you happen to have "mood swings", ask your doc about Lamictal. While I think MMJ works great for a lot of people, and helps with a lot of conditions, it's not the end-all cure-all for everyone. Some, perhaps yourself, still need prescription meds. Good Luck! I wish you the best.

:hippy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

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4 oz on an indoor grow is pretty light. I grew quite a few 1lb. + plants last winter in my greenhouse. Are you talking about a closet grow?

Rightwinger:

I just finished a giesel plant, first time i grew it. Far from dialed, actually some phos deficiency most of the cycle. It was grown in 5 gallons of coco with a modified lucas formulas (called H3ad's formula.) No CO2.

yield was 5.5 oz.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Here is a pic from my second run of her, hoping for 3x that amount, she has a lot more space to spread out this time.... ;)


edit: oops, first pic is actually killer queen. But that plant is identical in size and grown next to the giesel that is pictured in the second and third pics. KQ yields a bit less than giesel but I still hope for 10-12 oz minimum. :D

maybe I missed it but what you guys arent talking about .container size & watts.......if you got 1 plant under 1k in a 10gal pot, 12oz no problem...12oz is going to be on the low side...those #'s are very possible, but it also takes alot of time to train/stake the plants.....look at kartels, he takes the time to spread everything out to get the most out of his plants.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.[/QUOTE]


Me too. Less than 300 dollars and I can go on forever. Here in Rhode Island there is a real helpful group who are helping us to establish outlets. Who are those guys really? Defend your right to hold onto seeds. Corn farmers are not having much luck doing that. Pot will be big business in the US and soon.

Hey, Lets get orginaized into co-ops.

Hook up here. What do you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan

Hahaha! Wow really!?! I'm spamming? How so?

Just because you know people who have been doing the same thing for YEARS doesn't mean they are doing it right or that they are pushing things to the max. So much depends on strain itself. Some produce, some don't. I love Jack Herer but I can't get it to yield hardly anything but what it does is pure bliss. Now Trainwreck I can pull quite a bit, but I don't like it and I think it's a pain to grow (too much support needed). Big Bud is the same way - huge yield, but it's not for me. 4 oz/plant is pretty much average for people who just let nature take it's course. But there are people out there who push the envelope and are getting huge yields. Am I getting those yields - no but this isn't a fulltime gig for me nor I have poured a ton of money into it. Depending on what strain I'm running, I usually get a decent yield especially if it's a strain I've run before and journaled the previous grow. So often people continue to make the same mistakes over & over again because they don't take the few minutes a day to journal what they have done. I also have a few buckets that I just let nature do it's thing mostly just due to lack of time and I want to see what happens before I start to tweak anything. Personally I think that's the best thing to do when you first run a strain. Just let it grow and see what it does, that way you have a idea if any changes you make help or hurt.

And why so hostile? Why are you taking this so personal? I never said you & your friends suck at growing, just that there are individuals out there that are killin' it when it comes to huge grows! I'm in awe myself and if I hadn't seen pics and in some cases in person - I wouldn't believe it either.

Spamming - ummm pretty sure I'm not advertising fake Viagra or posting false info or posting repeatedly the same info over & over again. Maybe you're a little confused what spam is. And I'm talking about spam on an internet board, not the canned meat-like product (which I grew to love when I live in Hawaii & Guam) - just so you're clear.

Anyway, I hope you finally get some decent yields and I hope it's good medicine for you. You definitely need to relax. It's a plant that should bring you joy & pain relief. Seems to just put you in a pissy mood. I recommend maybe switching to a different strain (Jack Herer is great!) or maybe go back to taking your pysch meds. Talk to your doctor about maybe getting on Wellbutrin - I've seen it work wonders in people's personalities, maybe it'll help yours. Or if you happen to have "mood swings", ask your doc about Lamictal. While I think MMJ works great for a lot of people, and helps with a lot of conditions, it's not the end-all cure-all for everyone. Some, perhaps yourself, still need prescription meds. Good Luck! I wish you the best.

:hippy:

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I am just stating that people who make a living off of growing and have been doing indoor grows for many-many years are always interested in yield. I am not talking about the dispensory owner that opened up last week and is a newcomer grower. The growers I have come to know--using every technique available say they're happy to get 4 oz's per plant. Depending on the strain one can get much less than that.

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

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WOW!...didnt know there were people out there that didnt know about lb+ plants indoors...thats been going on for over 15 years that I know of. Hell this is a Strawberry Cough i grew in a 25gallon SOIL bucket. Got 10oz of this one and didnt even train it right. Then the Sour Fuck in a bubbler. That plant is 6feet tall and still have 7 more weeks to grow...look like a 4oz plant to you?I may do this for a living but im far from a Professional Grower...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.

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There are many ways, but I grow in dirt and yield 2-3 lbs per 1000W. Just had a few ISS plants yield 1 lb each.

Here's a pic of my Snowcap in a 20 gal smart pot, this will give you an idea of what's possible. Veg time is 8-10 weeks from cutting the clone, about the same as flowering time, which is very convienient. Imagine 4 of these under a 1kW light. This is how you get 2-3 lb harvests.

edit.... there's no secrets here, you just have to understand how the plant works... roots + light + co2 = buds. increase the amount of the 1st 3 to get more buds. Very simple really....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rightwinger

I am just stating that people who make a living off of growing and have been doing indoor grows for many-many years are always interested in yield... The growers I have come to know--using every technique available say they're happy to get 4 oz's per plant. Depending on the strain one can get much less than that.

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.

---

No need to patent it as it's fairly common knowledge. Give the plant what it needs, in the right quantities and with enough time & space, it'll be a tree. With the low plant numbers we're allowed here in CO, growing trees is the best bang for your buck. Of course there are those who will argue that it's not a good return on your money due to higher electricity & nute costs, etc... And that's a good argument, I'm just biased towards colas the size of 2 liter bottles! :thumbsup: Your growing buddies' might have different priorities.

Just look at regular farming world, for instance most pumpkin farmers grow pumpkins that are probably typically between 5-50lbs each. Yet there have been plenty of examples of pumpkins weighing in over 1,000lbs. Take a look at roses, most rose blooms are probably about 4-6in in diameter and yet there are people who have roses which are over 30in in diameter (imagine giving your girlfriend a dozen of those!). Tomatoes are typically about 2-4in in diameter & weigh a couple of ounces to maybe 1/2lb each and yet again there are those who have grown a 5lb+ tomato. Ok enough examples.

So long story short, there are lots of people who already know how to get yields greater than 4oz. True there are probably more people who are happy just to get 4oz. But to attack me and to pretty much say I'm lying- well that's just not nice. I think the pics some of the folks here have kindly provided show that it ain't hard to get over 4oz.

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Ok I'm done arguing about this. It's obvious your growing friends either aren't telling you the truth about actually really attempting other methods wholeheartedly or they just have strains that don't produce yield or they are trying to save money/time somehow and skimping somewhere along the line. Might be time to ask them why they can only get 4oz. If that's the best they can do no matter what strain they run, somethings wrong. Even when I ran Big Bud, and wasn't even trying to get a huge yield, I still got something like 6-9oz per plant.

Don't remember if you're a new grower or not, if so might want to either get different mentors or pick-up a good grow book. Of course there's tons of internet info out there but so much of it conflicts, it can get overwhelming, needless to say confusing. Personally I would recommend starting out with either soil or soil-less buckets. When I teach someone, I like to teach soil-less because newbies can get very excited about growing & end up overcompensating somehow. Those kind of problems are really easy to cure with soil-less (at least I think so). Hydro is cool but is more expensive to get started. Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:

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Holy $hit, I thought my plants were pretty big for indoor. Very impressive.

Dirt? DWC? How many 1kW lights?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dorje113

Holy $hit, I thought my plants were pretty big for indoor. Very impressive.

Dirt? DWC? How many 1kW lights?

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thats the guy i was talking about from the start. but people seem not to want to listen or believe me.thats not thai's grow thats doubles grow.to start it's about 14 1k lights hangin vert with no hood.then the system is rdwc something i have done from the start. b4 i knew about doubleds but not on the scale he is running it on.you won't get that growth in soil in the time frame we work with.double only does 3 weeks veg.it's all about pumping the root zone with tons of oxygen at all times.so not only do you have the air stones in the rez but also in each plant bin then on top of that you recirculate the water through all the bins back to main rez.


but don't take my word for it wait till someone else says it then believe them.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan

No need to patent it as it's fairly common knowledge. Give the plant what it needs, in the right quantities and with enough time & space, it'll be a tree. With the low plant numbers we're allowed here in CO, growing trees is the best bang for your buck. Of course there are those who will argue that it's not a good return on your money due to higher electricity & nute costs, etc... And that's a good argument, I'm just biased towards colas the size of 2 liter bottles! :thumbsup: Your growing buddies' might have different priorities.

Just look at regular farming world, for instance most pumpkin farmers grow pumpkins that are probably typically between 5-50lbs each. Yet there have been plenty of examples of pumpkins weighing in over 1,000lbs. Take a look at roses, most rose blooms are probably about 4-6in in diameter and yet there are people who have roses which are over 30in in diameter (imagine giving your girlfriend a dozen of those!). Tomatoes are typically about 2-4in in diameter & weigh a couple of ounces to maybe 1/2lb each and yet again there are those who have grown a 5lb+ tomato. Ok enough examples.

So long story short, there are lots of people who already know how to get yields greater than 4oz. True there are probably more people who are happy just to get 4oz. But to attack me and to pretty much say I'm lying- well that's just not nice. I think the pics some of the folks here have kindly provided show that it ain't hard to get over 4oz.

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Ok I'm done arguing about this. It's obvious your growing friends either aren't telling you the truth about actually really attempting other methods wholeheartedly or they just have strains that don't produce yield or they are trying to save money/time somehow and skimping somewhere along the line. Might be time to ask them why they can only get 4oz. If that's the best they can do no matter what strain they run, somethings wrong. Even when I ran Big Bud, and wasn't even trying to get a huge yield, I still got something like 6-9oz per plant.

Don't remember if you're a new grower or not, if so might want to either get different mentors or pick-up a good grow book. Of course there's tons of internet info out there but so much of it conflicts, it can get overwhelming, needless to say confusing. Personally I would recommend starting out with either soil or soil-less buckets. When I teach someone, I like to teach soil-less because newbies can get very excited about growing & end up overcompensating somehow. Those kind of problems are really easy to cure with soil-less (at least I think so). Hydro is cool but is more expensive to get started. Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:

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Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.


not when u mix it with dwc like i do.it's a win win cause basicly you have 2 systems running at the same time so it's like a fail safe. cause if the aero goes down you still have the airstones going and if the air pump stops you have the aero still running.it's great for those times when you would have lost a crop due to a pump clogging or going bad...

not to mention the added oxygen and growth you get from it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by throatstick

but don't take my word for it wait till someone else says it then believe them.....

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I believe it, thats 3 lbs per 1kW which I have also done more than once. The veg time is really short, but I think I could come close in soil with some strains like ISS, Agent Orange, and other super fast growing sativa hybrids. The AO I mentioned gets about 10x bigger when we hit 12/12, I can't believe how much they had to be trimmed down after flowering. Growing 1 plant per light would be easy with a strain like that... I agree that DWC maximizes nute uptake in the roots, but large volumes of dirt can accomplish similar yields and is cheap and easy, just needs more veg time.