Hi Old Mac,
Just wondering if you experienced needing to use 50% less nutrients and a reduced photo-period for flowering as a result of using the Theorem LEDs.?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
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Hi Old Mac,
Just wondering if you experienced needing to use 50% less nutrients and a reduced photo-period for flowering as a result of using the Theorem LEDs.?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Okay so I saw part of my answer after re-reading your posts. You are using less nutes because of needing to prevent gunking up the fogger. But no mention, that I can see, of a shorter photo-period. I apologize if I missed that.
Hello LisaDouglas,
I actually use a 40% nutrient solution, due to using aero/fog. With fog it is very easy to over do nutrients since they are directly available to the roots without any buffer from a grow medium. Pond foggers crude up, but I've had no problems with the FrapaPlas fogger. Partly due to the Frapa's design, it has a much larger ultrasonic device, but also due to running RO water during the dark period. I have a built in "cleaning" cycle.
I've used the TI's for awhile doing container grows with Pro-Mix, and like most LED grow lights they do not dry out the soil as fast as a HID would. LED's automatically have less nutrient use because of this, so I ususally use a nutes first then water once, rather then the usual feeding I use for HPS which is nutes then water, water.
Hope that makes sence.:)
I'm only just setting the tray up right now so I don't have an answer for you. But I've built 2 smaller/cheaper trays for others that are both in use for awhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by cannamanibus
One is 2'x2' and is lit by 2-Procyon 100s, plus 2-T5HO 2' (48w total) and 1-25w red glass incandescent. They use 2-T5s (with 6500K bulbs) only for rooting the cuttings (24/0) for abt 10-14 days, then the Procyons are added for another week or so of veg (all at 24/0). Switched to 12/12 and after the first 2 weeks of flower the T5s are switched over to 2700K tubes. The total is abt 275 watts. This tray has an average of 1.1-1.2 grams/watt. BTW this system is not using any CO2 supplement, so it could go a little more with it.
Hope this helps with your curiosity.:D
That is badass!! :thumbsup:
Sorry to have taken so long to get back to you HMR, I seem to get to do one post or so when I get time for the boards. Just not enough time in the day. I've been real tired lately, between the two grows, patients and with Tonto.
Almost forgot (see what I mean) to use an emoticon :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
....maybe a little (or a lot) of root showing.:)
Hi Oldmac,
DAMN!
How long have those been in the system?
Peace,
Farmer Rich
Why dont you show plants? That is a cool set-up.
Gazing on Oldmac's horde of mini-monsters is like gazing directly upon Zeus. Mere mortals burst into flame. :eek:
Thanks to my genetics I was only singed. :thumbsup:
I do love the smell of burning hair, but that's quite another story! :wtf:
oh my god. this looks awesome. im subbing this thread. cant wate to see it during flowering
Almost 4 weeks of flower, but had abt 2 weeks in veg before that. But this was a very experimental first run, and the tray was filled with rooted clones of various ages....some had been in an EZ-clonner for over a month others just a few days. It also had 2 different mom's give cuttings so there is a difference in growth. Things will be more consistent next run.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Rich
Since so many people want to see the "above ground" shots, here's a few pics. I'm not real proud of the differences in heights, but like I mentioned before this particular run had a whole lot of experiments happening.
Also a shot of the AC/dehumidifier, and a pic of what every grow room should have....a place to sit and watch the grass grow.:thumbsup:
Lookin good dude... Im sure when you fine tune your table that you will get crazy good results! I just want to take a bite of that first pic! yummy...
So how stable are those with no medium? Do you have to be careful when tending them because of it? I really want to try that.
Hey there GetThisOrDie,
They are extremely stable using just 2" net pots and neoprene collars.
Keep in mind that my plants finish at 18" or less, but I have grown 4' plants in a NFT system using 3" net pots.
Biggest problem (if it really is a problem) is you can't move the plants after a couple of weeks since the roots start to intertwine.
Biggest plus is that having ultrasonic fog, that is sterile, it will sterilize the entire root zone.:D
Its a sweet setup indeed... After I move and get settled in im going to try and build an aeroponics setup. Also need to get familiar with ScOG. I like to look at your setup because it makes me think of the possibilities :)
A few more pics I took the other nite. It was "haircut time", a leaf trimming in preperation of getting cut down tonite.
The real pain is I havn't gotten around to finishing stuff I wanted to get done before the next run. Oh well I guess I get more done under the gun then if I wasn't.:D
damn OM! those are gorgeous! holy trich covered colas batman!!!
it sucks being without the 'net. i'm missing everything. i'm gonna have to save this one and red the whole thing. i guess you are liking aero/fog business?
how important to use an ultrasonic fogger?
-shake
Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
Hey Headshake!
The trichcome production is excellent, but thanks for that goes to the strain, Shiva Skunk, and the folks at Sensi Seeds.:)
I've been headed in the aero/fog direction for awhile, and it feels good to have this tray finally producing. I'll be very happy when I can stop my personal grow and stop using RW. That has been my goal, to grow with no media; no Pro-Mix to drag out of the grow area, no rockwool blocks to dispose of, etc.
Ultrasonic fog produces such a fine fog, that can be used directly by fine roots but the biggest advantage is the fog is sterile. It will sterilize the root zone so that no pathogens can survive there. In this first run I did have a problem going from rooted clones from a EZ-clonner to the aero/fog and I can solve that pretty easy. But I left a few clones that didn't make it just to see if root rot could spread. The root rot could only survive on the bottom of the neoprene collar abt 1/4" around the dead stem and less then that down. The rest of the root zone is gorgeous; no slime, no green grunge, no brown or discolored roots....just clean, white root mass. I'm lovin' it!
Just had a thought, maybe the grow lights help with the trichs! :D
what grow light is that OM? sorry i'm a little behind the power-curve at the moment. that doesn't look like a pyrocon. is that something new to the mix?Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
apparently i've got a lot of catching up to do!
on a different note, would a regular fogger do any good at all? the reason i ask is because i happen to have one laying around and thought it would be fun to play with.
-shake
That's the business side of a Theroreme Innovation SmartLamp Pro-Bloom. I've been using a pair of them for over a year now. In this setup they are on a light rail, moving a few feet over the tray.:)
When you say "regular fogger" are you referring to a pond fogger? Pond foggers do work, but have a couple of limitations, they run hot and will increase rez temps if used in that way. Plus the fog tends to stay on top of the water and only builds a few inches above the water on it's own, so some sort of fan assit is required.
Here's a couple pics of grow tray clean up. Easy clean for sure.:thumbsup:
Thats a nice healthy root mat. They look grate.:thumbsup:
very nice indeed
That is the garbage to be thrown out. Real easy clean up. But pretty nice root mat.
I've been busy with my partner trying to square away things in the HPS/container side of our grow. Plus we need to clean up some sloppy work on our control panel here and automated switch over for the frapa fogger.
The next run, we are going to put the cuttings directly into the aero/fog grow tray and start that way, so we don't have the wilt off problem we had with this run. But this last time around we did do some experiments; like leaving some dead plants, with dead roots to see if root rot would spread...it would not, turning off both aero and fog to see if roots would dry out too much after an hour or so... they did not, etc etc. I like experiments that simulate or stimulate problems at this stage, when it won't hurt as much as being into a production mode.
Stay tuned, I am going to start this up again soon.:)
Looking at your root mat makes me think of an idea I had which I will run past you. In my next design I was thinking I would make my root basin about 2 feet in depth that would be for fog only, no misters or sprayers. About every 10 inches I was thinking I might run a layer of chicken wire or something similar so that the roots could create layers and can grow horizontally instead of just vertically until they hit the floor like yours did. Do you think I would just clog up my fog zone with roots or do you think the fog could still flow around as needed even with two or three layers of roots in the basin?
One other idea came to me which I now run past you too. I want to stay away from misters in my next design. I attempted once already and failed in the high pressure misters area. So my other thought was that perhaps I could strategically lay in some pools of water in the basin so that the roots could tap a more consistent water supply then what my fogger can provide. I haven't seen a design that I really like yet, but various ideas pop in my mind on how to do something like this. I could put a shallow tray of water just under the roots and drop it lower every few days. I could put tiny fountains in the basin or maybe some sort of NFT method. The idea here would be that since I cant get the water droplets small enough to use with fog I probably better just leave misters out of my fog zone all together. I noticed that when I used fog and low pressure misters the droplets tended to butcher my fog roots. My thought process was that if I used pools of water instead, then perhaps they wouldn't damage all the roots. Any roots that make contact with a pool of water would slowly become a tap root I suspect, but it wouldn't be a shock to the plants. I find that low pressure misters require a heavier root then what fog encourages. I am aware that however I do the supplemental watering that i will need to circulate it. So whenever I say pool of water I am simply thinking of some sort of water supply that doesn't impact the roots as badly as misters do.
Another thought comes to mind. Maybe I could get a mat of water permeable material that my roots could come to rest on in the basin. A mat would allow me to start higher in the basin during the grow cycle and lower it as the roots grow longer.
My Goal: figure out a way to get water to the roots while not beating them up with water droplets and being able to use fog once again. Recall that I have a 3 head Aero Mist which tends to produce dry fog. And like you I want to grow from start to finish in one system, so clones will have trouble getting to water early on. Know what I mean Vern?
can't wait to see what's next OM!
i knew that you were using Pro-blooms, i guess i just didn't know what the business end looked like!
i think the fogger that i have is not even for ponds. i think it's made for crafts or some crap like that. i'll look at the specs and get back to you.
i think i seed a little project in the future. thanks for pushing the envelope!
-shake
A bump so some people can see the start of "fogfognugen".
I guess I could update a bit of info here.
2nd tray went in so fogfognugen is complete. We purchased 2 more TI ProBlooms for use over the second tray, also on the same light rail.
BTW, LEDs on a light rail help alot with penertration, there is a constant changeing of the "angle of attack" from the lights. Plus it is kinda hypnotic watching the damn lights move back and forth, constant changing shadows.
Most recently this summer we built another 2 trays so now there are 2 fogfognugens, and they are stacked on top of each other. We started using 2- 1000watt HPS lights on the second one, and I can confirm that 2-TIs totaling 660 watts can and does outperform 1000 watts (really 1040 watts w/digi ballast) of HPS. So saved 380 watts but got a tastier product. We recently changed the HPS for PSMH, using 3000k bulbs thru most of flower then using a 10,000k bulb for last 7-10 days. This has worked out better then the HPS and finish and taste is like the TIs. Only thing I did not like with the HID lights was the need to air cool the hoods, but with out that the AC was working too hard. This is BTW a sealed room.
As always I'm willing to answer any questions that anyone has, on or OT.:)
OM
great reading mac!
This is a neat system. What is the expected yield from a table of how many plants?
Well khyber',
This first run was just a little over 3 grams/per plant finished, dry wgt. Keeping in mind that it was Shiva Skunk, not known for it's wgt and it took 6 1/2 weeks to flower. Plus the clones were of various ages and sizes, some dying just to see if root root would occur, etc.
Nowadays, having it dailed in with CO2 supplemation, SS takes abt 40-42 days, and produces an average plant wgt of 7-7.5 grams, and there are 138 plant sites per 4'x4' tray.
White Rhino and "Apricot" are producing 8-9grams per "plantlet" or abt 1,100 to 1,250 grams per tray every 2 weeks. :thumbsup:
It's all just a number's game; little plants with what seems small wgts, but put a shit load of them packed dense equals good production.:)
OM
PS, It's really amazing to me that the 660w LED trays produce almost identical numbers to the 1000w PSMH trays. As Martha would say, "...and that's a good thing."