words of wisdom, eh? we didn't invent democracy and the rule of law but its working out pretty well for us here in the US. i'm glad to see it starting to take root in Iraq, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by higher4hockey
:s4:
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words of wisdom, eh? we didn't invent democracy and the rule of law but its working out pretty well for us here in the US. i'm glad to see it starting to take root in Iraq, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by higher4hockey
:s4:
"We are America, we don't fucking torture". Fox News Network :jointsmile:
The reasons you give are complete bollocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
The nationalities of those who attacked America had absolutely nothing to do with any one country and since the majority were Saudis I would say we are well off our target area.
WMDs is the biggest joke around, it was always a bullshit excuse.
The support for Saddam when he was doing what the US wished is so easily forgotten isn't it.
However this is all off topic since the question is a very simple one.
Can any country that denounces torture then uses it themselves be considered as any better than those they denounce ?
The only logical answer is NO.
its all propaganda.
we aint endin dick but we are goin to make it huge news that we are goin to. we'll close gitmo but we'll open another facility in someother shitty part of the world and waterboard the fuck outa these prisoners far away from the press. but we are goin to make a big show of closing the prisons, prosicuting the torturers and the like.
Im not going to slate america..
America has contributed so much to the world..
Without the US we would not have all the beautiful strains of weed..
But ye guys over react.. The strange thing about 9/11 was the hysterical reaction..
On websites tv etc.. it was like watching the nazis in the 30's.. All chanting USA USA.. Crazy for revenge.. Baying for blood... And with a lunatic at the helm..(GWB)..
A couple of thousand people got killed...
In europe and the middle east people have got used of war and bombs...
Was it that much of a shock that after years of doing what u wanted around the world somebody kicked back..
The big suprise for me is that this has not happenned more often..
2 times.. Pearl Harbour and 9/11..
I think Obama has to be good for the world..
He has improved the image of the US...
He has got a real positive image in Europe and i think it really is time for change...
The world wants to love the US..
Its where most of us look to for clothes, tv, movies, music etc..
Peace and Love all...
Cannabis 2012 "The year of the Leaf"...
kool-aid to the left
Simply because other countries are to pussified to retaliate doesn't mean America should follow Europe's lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
And European countries haven't done the same throughout history?Quote:
Was it that much of a shock that after years of doing what u wanted around the world somebody kicked back..
And both times America was quick to respond. It sends the message to enemies that if they are going to bomb American soil, they better deliver a crushing blow in that initial attack or face the wrath of our armed forces. I have been very interested in American history, and I'm certain our founders would support our retaliatory actions.Quote:
The big suprise for me is that this has not happenned more often..
2 times.. Pearl Harbour and 9/11..
Why the fuck should we care what Europe thinks of us? And why the hell is he apologizing for the U.S. over there? We have given a lot of great things to the world community in our short reign as a nation. Yet we are apologizing. WTF? What exactly do we have to apologize for? I didn't realize these European nations had such a respectable track record.Quote:
I think Obama has to be good for the world..
He has improved the image of the US...
He has got a real positive image in Europe and i think it really is time for change...
Obama needs to be good for America, not the world. He is our goddamn leader, so he better start acting in our best fucking interest before we have 1776 part II.
No they don't. We donate more money to other nations than any other country, but nobody gives a shit. People love hating America. Our President sure as hell shouldn't be apologizing to the rest of the world on our behalf. We have nothing to apologize for! Our history certainly isn't completely clean, but nobodies is!Quote:
world wants to love the US..
Its where most of us look to for clothes, tv, movies, music etc..
And the rest of the world doesn't seem to like him that much. They didn't seem to appreciate him pushing for them to give massive stimulus packages to their people. I know for a fact German and French leaders have publicly expressed their anger and annoyance at him in the past month or so.
^yeah!!
:rambo: what he said !
A simple question of logic dictates that if torture is wrong for others to commit (this is something all civilised societies agree) then it is wrong no matter who is doing it.
Twist and whine all you want but the truth is you can't take the moral highground as a hypocrite.
uhh...flowers and sunshine is all i took from that.
ive been to iraq, ive dealt with the enemies of the US firsthand. dont give me that moral highground shit, when shit hits the fan and we need to know something fast, give me a pair of pliers and a blow torch and we'll get some answers out of haj. war sucks. its not for cry babies and soft ass lefties. bad things happen, good people die, and mofos get tortured. thats the way it is, and thats the way its probably always going to be.
i saw a bumper sticker on a vets car once that said: if you havent been to iraq or afghanistan, then shut the fuck up.
calling it torture doesn't make it torturous. a rose by any other name is stillQuote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
a bunch of leftist bullshit
maybe you should leave American politics to Americans
The bullshit you smell is most definately your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherbozo
I couldn't care less for people if I tried.
Americas politics are as corrupt and retarded as any countries politics, all politics is bullshit.
I am however a pedant when it comes to hypocrisy.
Since your own goverment uses the word torture to describe the acts carried out how is it even possible to argue with that definition ?
BTW
The only things that motivate me are logic and honesty, they are the only things that count, everything else is secondary.
I have no political affiliations as that is simply a way to choose who you want to get screwed by for the next however many years.
What do you call 500 politicians at the bottom of the sea?
A fuckin' good start. :thumbsup:
That argument isn't as valid as you would like to believe. Seeing as Obama and his administration seem to have alternative motives with all this, their calling it torture doesn't really mean much. They are sucking up to the international community as they have been doing since they took office, they have also been trying to demonize the Bush administration at every possible turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychocat
Had Cheney and Bush referred to it as torture your argument would be valid, but seeing as Obama is desperately trying to portray all our nations problems as a result of the Bush administration, their calling it torture clearly benefits them in this way.
I agree a lot of our problems are a result of Bush, as well as the democratic controlled congress. Unfortunately, the democrats in power today aren't willing to share the blame. They need a scapegoat and the Bush administration is the perfect target.
Waterboarding has been considered torture for over a century and the US military is banned from using it.
For some reason (known only to those who decided it) the CIA is not banned from torturing
Does that clarify it better ?
I do like the wrangling with definitions that the lawyers are pursuing.
Enhanced interrogation technique LMAO
Do you think I could use something similar and claim that I was only guilty of extreme body modification if I should ever feel the need to chop someone up ? :D
God shave the Queen!
i've never been much of a flag waver (in fact, i've been known to burn a flag or two in my time), but i do believe in giving credit where credit is due and damning those whose world view is tinted by prejudice and popular opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
where you ever got the idea that people anywhere in the world ever get used to the destruction of war is beyond me. every wayward bullet and stray bomb fragment is followed by screams for retribution and reparation from a seemingly infinite number of voices. a mis-aimed american missile is enough to call down howls of derision from every corner of the world, even though a suicide bomber killing dozens or even hundreds of innocents is seen as a proper response to the slightest of insults.
i've also gotten pretty damn sick of the universal blame that has settled on the u.s. for all of the world's woes. while every third world cesspool with an axe to grind seems to be claiming that the corruption of american capitalism has stolen their wealth, they seem to conveniently forget the trillions of dollars of aid that has always flowed from us to every corner of the world in times of need and to ignore their own rampant corruption. while the world's economies reel from the shock waves of our economic collapse and look to us to clean up what they seem to feel is our mess, they all prefer to forget how willing they were to go along for the ride in better times and make their billions on america's coat tails. while the american military is berated as the cause of violence across the globe, no one wishes to point out that that violence is growing in even those corners of the world where american influence is almost nonexistent and to conveniently forget (once again) the number of times that that same military has been called upon by the world to quell that violence.
as JE has already pointed out; brak is not the world's president, but ours. that positive image is being built on apologies where none are warranted. he builds up the egos of second and third rate powers by genuflecting before their arrogance and illusory moral superiority, seeking to send us down the path of their socialistic stagnation. these has-beens, scurrying desperately to regain their past glories, have taken the road of mediocrity and the messiah sees their failure as the success we should be aiming for. where he should be finding ways to strengthen and support the ideology that has placed us in the position of a world superpower, he instead seems determined to tear all of that down and and replace it with failed socialist dogma and a totalitarian bureaucracy. that change you so long for seems to be the entropy of a world society and the destruction of the individual.Quote:
I think Obama has to be good for the world..
He has improved the image of the US...
He has got a real positive image in Europe and i think it really is time for change...
only a fool could really believe this. the world wants us to fail. though they are willingly dominated by a robust america, they would prefer to see us broken and ripe for their scavenging. they may be more than happy to use our strengths, but they would rather see our wealth decline and our liberty decimated as a warning to any who should revere the power of the individual. brak seems all too eager to trade our heritage for the feigned respect of a greedy world community.Quote:
The world wants to love the US..
Whoooo.....
Pity whoever does eventually invade the USA if even the stoners are militant...
Respect to u for your patriotic views..
U r true Americans..
i have no use for the blindness of rabid patriotism nor for that of its opposite. i find it difficult to defend the use of harsh interrogation techniques, even when i see their necessity, and i see this country as only a means to an even better end, with even more freedom and an even greater reverence for the power of the individual. my days of militancy are long since past.Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
the invasion began long ago. we are in the process of being taken over by the indolence and avarice of the ignorant masses, led by a power hungry bureaucracy that uses the ignorant as figurative cannon fodder in their quest for a totalitarian regime. violence is of little use against such an onslaught, only by example can we hope to show that the tide can be turned. the herd may willingly follow their masters down the path of least resistance, but there will always be those that see the virtue of the hard road.
damn, stoned again.:jointsmile:
I for one, believe in what this country was founded upon and would be willing to risk my life in defense of our sovereignty. Unfortunately it appears an invading force isn't necessary, it appears our leaders are happy demolishing it from the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Property/Happiness. Our current administration is already threatening our three most basic and cherished rights. I will fight my own government as well as a foreign army to protect those and other rights.
you'll soon find yourself fighting your neighbors for the simple freedom of believing in the constitution. the fools will always multiply beyond their means, as the wise quietly defend what is theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
too broke to do much, too high to care.:jointsmile:
One of the consequenses of having a country founded on the principles that the USA was is that u have to respect ure fellow americans views..
America voted for obama... Not the world.
He is ure president.
GWB was also voted for by the majority of americans..
I think the media is responsible for hyping and encouraging the paranoia that seems to have taken over the US.
America now thinks everybody hates it..
This is not true..
The world looks to America because it is the strongest..
If the American economy is in good health then the world economy is..
People in the US need to set an example and take the lead and encourage people to respect its principles and ideals..
Gung ho USA USA USA type rantings wont work...
U guys dont know how good u have it..
Come and live in Brazil for a while..
Again respect to the USA..
Peace and Love to all...
^ peace and love from the u.s. of a., too. :smokin: and welcome to can com. :hippy: :D i was living in los angeles when y'all won the world cup there in the Rose Bowl, man what a party all over town. :rasta:
Would say it was special..
Brazilians are good at 1 thing..
Party... Samba...
I started out in Ireland but wandered lonely as a cloud and parked myself here for a while...
Peace and Love...
McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding
(AP) Republican presidential candidate John McCain reminded people Thursday that some Japanese were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with techniques that included waterboarding.
"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference.
McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding - CBS News
I'm very glad he's doing this, but at the same time, it's good to be aware of the shameless public relations exercise.
Prosecuting a few torturers after Bush would be like Hitler's successor posing with his arms around some Jewish orphans. Probably more PR than heartfelt, undertaken to demonize the previous administration (however justified) and to make him look like the angelic saviour.
that's the whole point, to distract you on the one hand with this witch huntQuote:
Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt
while the other hand robs you blind.
Likely there were more death. Do you think the rights group know them all?
Quote, "US interrogators may have killed dozens, human rights researcher and rights group say
By John Byrne
Published: May 6, 2009
United States interrogators killed nearly four dozen detainees during or after their interrogations, according a report published by a human rights researcher based on a Human Rights First report and followup investigations.
In all, 98 detainees have died while in US hands. Thirty-four homicides have been identified, with at least eight detainees - and as many as 12 - having been tortured to death, according to a 2006 Human Rights First report that underwrites the researcher’s posting. The causes of 48 more deaths remain uncertain.
The researcher, John Sifton, worked for five years for Human Rights Watch. In a posting Tuesday, he documents myriad cases of detainees who died at the hands of their US interrogators. Some of the instances he cites are graphic.
Most of those taken captive were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. They include at least one Afghani soldier, Jamal Naseer, who was mistakenly arrested in 2004. “Those arrested with Naseer later said that during interrogations U.S. personnel punched and kicked them, hung them upside down, and hit them with sticks or cables,” Sifton writes. “Some said they were doused with cold water and forced to lie in the snow. Nasser collapsed about two weeks after the arrest, complaining of stomach pain, probably an internal hemorrhage.”
Raw Story » US interrogators may have killed dozens, human rights researcher and rights group say
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathaksung
so?
so, just 'cause some reporter says it, it's gospel? shit man, they'll write anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathaksung
not only that but do you think you'd really give a shit how many died if your
wife or your mother or your son or daughter had died on 9\11?
nah, i say, better them than us!
Will u please stop using 911 to justify slaughtering 100 times more in the middle east...Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherbozo
911 was down to a couple of hundred extremist lunatics who took it upon themselves to hit back after years of american interference in the middle east..
Bin laden is not the leader of islam.
He is nothing but an extremist trained and armed by the US when ye were on the same side in Afghan..
Bin laden is nothing.. A nobody.. An old man who lives in a cave..
Why didnt the US send in some Navy Seals/ Rangers to take him out..
Why did the US have to totally over react and start 2 wars ?
Revenge..
The wars were started to deflect from the real problem...
The US goverment was embarressed..
The american public was shocked and started baying for blood..
Did the US really really need 2 more wars to stick on its CV??????
Peace and Love to all...
send nancy pelosi to jail first she let the shit go for YEARS and did nothing!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
we keep the kool-aid on the left!
???????????Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherbozo
Peace and Love to all...
Hi All !!
I'm lost here. What is a CV?Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
A pretty bold statement!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MPLSweedman
I actually saw the press conference where she stated, Congress was lied to and she was not informed of torture already being used.
That being said!!
I feel just as safe today as I did when the last administration was in office.
If we are going to pursue prosecution for torture "we" need all the information. WE as in the Judicial Branch not WE the public.
I believe there should be very few exemptions from prosecution, I personally don't know where to draw this line.
If a person is acting on orders given to them by a superior, maybe, they should be exempt.
Anyone giving the orders to torture should be held accountable.
Anyone with the knowledge of illegal operations, and the power to do something about it should be held accountable, if they did nothing to stop it.
This should to apply to ALL branches of government, and I do believe bad legal advice is grounds for removal of seated judges also.
If it is found that anyone participated in illegal actions they should have their day in court.
Lets get it done and move on!!
Someone implied earlier that Obama is using this for a distraction!
I believe this is way off base! Obama shouldn't have to deal with this!
We shouldn't even have to mention torture, this is all just crazy!!
The fact is; We do have to deal with it!!!
Not because Obama wants to distract us, but because the previous administration was so messed up we can't ignore it!!
We as a people decided on election day enough is enough!! Not me, the COUNTRY, the voters, you and me!!!
If you didn't get the representation in Washington you wanted, TUFF NOOGIES, the majority did. Both popular and electoral, but that is another topic!
If you are relying on the information we are getting from the media, we will never get at the truth!
FOX NEWS, MSNBC, or CNN they all their own agenda to pursue, MONEY and RATINGS.
Just Sayin :hippy:
Can we ALL agree on one thing? NOONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!!
Side Note!!
Watch out for the MMJ you are using, the extreme potency is now averaged at 10.1% THC.
YouTube - Scientists Research - Dangers Of Highly Potent Pot
:S5:
Originally Posted by dossantos
Did the US really really need 2 more wars to stick on its CV??????
I'm lost here. What is a CV?
Curriculum Vitae = resume...
Totally agree that no one is above the law...
Peace and Love to all....:)
and we are to believe her because......? now that all the campaign rhetoric and partisan squabbling has come back to haunt her, what choice does she have but to lie, lie, lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadscale
each new administration must unravel the failures of its predecessor. just as baby bush was saddled with clinton's haphazard attitude toward the defense of the country and his spendthrift ways, obama must deal with bush and company's ham handed attempts at protecting us from the very real threats of today's world and the general ignorance of our former president.Quote:
Someone implied earlier that Obama is using this for a distraction!
I believe this is way off base! Obama shouldn't have to deal with this!
We shouldn't even have to mention torture, this is all just crazy!!
The fact is; We do have to deal with it!!!
Not because Obama wants to distract us, but because the previous administration was so messed up we can't ignore it!!
instead of realizing that we are redefining the term torture (putting an old name on a different technique) and abolishing it now so that we can move on in a more humane fashion, our current leaders are distracting us by making political hay over where the blame can be laid for these desperate attempts at hurrying an end to an unpopular conflict. yes, it is a distraction. while our economy falls further and further into the crapper and a corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy claims more and more control over our dwindling free market, what better sideshow than putting political enemies on trial to divert the attention of the masses.
the pendulum continues to swing and the next in line will have to cope with brak's inexperience and socialist leanings. it's a cycle we can't break unless the people are willing to look beyond their own petty desires and the useless rhetoric of partisan politics.
this isn't the first time the american people have been fooled. each election brings with it a new batch of liars and thieves. greedy to share in the wealth of the "american dream" and eager for some "change" they can believe in, the masses have chosen to betray the very ideals that afforded that wealth and allowed the freedom of change. they have proven themselves willing to sacrifice the individual for the illusory good of the many and have forgotten that it was the protection of the free will of the individual that given us the chance at the standard of living they all seem to be clambering to share in without putting in the effort needed to attain it.Quote:
We as a people decided on election day enough is enough!! Not me, the COUNTRY, the voters, you and me!!!
our only chance to sift any truth from the mountain of lies we are inundated with is to watch the actions of our leaders and see if they match up with the promises they so easily gave us. this latest batch has yet to live up to their rhetoric. we will never know the details of their back room dealings, but we can easily see that their promises of honesty and transparency have come to naught. their vaunted transparency seems only to apply to the failings of their opposition and that honesty is belied by the hemming and hawing that accompanies each revelation of their false claims and their wholesale sellout of the american ideal.Quote:
If you are relying on the information we are getting from the media, we will never get at the truth!
FOX NEWS, MSNBC, or CNN they all their own agenda to pursue, MONEY and RATINGS.
Hi All !!!:thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity
GREAT POST!!!!
What do you think? Is anyone above the LAW?
:hippy:
the taliban were given an ultimatum to get rid of aq . I guess they didn't take us seriously. too fucking bad for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dossantos
As for Iraq, if the pussies at the UN would do thier job we wouldn't have to. There were 14 resolutions against Iraq stating they would be attacked if broken, yet somehow a 15th was supposed to work?:cool:
i would like to point out that pat tilman was a ranger so we have had rangers in afgahnastan lookin for bin ladin for a while now.Quote:
Why didnt the US send in some Navy Seals/ Rangers to take him out..
it aint just as easy as send in the seals or any special forces unit, real life is nothin like television