DOT P test

If the DOT test is a followup/return to duty test due to a previous DOT test being positive for a drug, you will be observed for the followup test (see § 40.67 of the DOT regulations).

And keep in mind that for the observed test, they will check for artificial prosthetic delivery systems and synthetic urine/substitution containers. Under § 40.67, the donor must lower trousers, undergarments, roll the shirt up, and showing the observer by turning around 360 dg, that he/she is not carrying such devices. If no devices are found, then the observer and donor proceeds to enter the bathroom stall. The observer is to directly watch the flow of urine exit the body and into the sample cup.

Before the followup/return to duty test, the donor must complete the SAP process as outlined under Subpart O of 49CFR Part 40 of the regulations.

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Originally Posted by rockinrobin

i passed a supervised d.o.t. p test by using the urinator.

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If you were able to use the Urinator system, you did not take a DOT test. As stated, observers are required by the regs to check for such devices. Read post #5 in this thread:
http://boards.cannabis.com/drug-test...test-soon.html

it was dot all they did was go in the restroom with me it was pre employment . it was 4 yrs ago it might be different now all i was doing was saying what happened to me but dont tell me what it wasn,t you were not there. what your talking about sounds like a fatel accident observed or newer rules.

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it was dot all they did was go in the restroom with me it was pre employment . it was 4 yrs ago it might be different now all i was doing was saying what happened to me but dont tell me what it wasn,t you were not there. what your talking about sounds like a fatel accident observed or newer rules.

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If its 4 years ago that you used the Urinator, then thats a different story for that the new D/O rules werent implemented until 2008. You wouldve noticed this if you took time out to follow the links that Ive provided.
With the new rules in place, its very irresponsible to even suggest using the Urinator.

i could of followed the links and you could of asked me how long ago i took the test instead of saying i didn't take it. you got negative first all i did was say what happened to me. you put out a lot of good info. take care

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Originally Posted by rockinrobin

i could of followed the links and you could of asked me how long ago i took the test instead of saying i didn't take it.

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No, thats hogwash! Nobody should have to ask you a damn thing. :rolleyes:.... You shouldve included in your original post the first time that this happened 4 years ago. Instead, your post gave off all the vibes that this test took place recently.

Hello again everyone. I'm still looking for information on the product Spike by Clear Choice. I can't use fake pee because of the way my employer conducts the random drug testing policy. A supervisor will drive us to the collection site so there is no time to mix powdered pee or bring a substitute up to body temp. Could anyone give me information on Spike and when it was used? A sales rep. at Clear Choice says it may have an odor to it. Anyone know? Foley Services is the collecting agent. Does anyone have any info on them? It's a new policy for my employer so no one has any information on how the testing is done. A split specimen is taken. We are not sure if they send both samples to a lab then do a EMIT test or if the EMIT is done right after collection. Sorry I ask for so much but I am new to this. ANY information that would work in my situation would be greatly appreciated. I am subject to a DOT test. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Burnt Toast

Drop-in additives like the Urineluck are detected on a more frequent basis than ever before. They are detected when the sample is flagged for high chromates, excessive nitrites, and/or an abnormal pH.

Youd be better off bringing in some premixed synthetic urine, or a clean persons sample. If youre brave enough to sneak in an additive, then youre brave enough to sneak in a sub sample.

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Nitrites can be readily detected by a urinalysis dipstick test or through direct chemical analysis. Because nitrites do not interfere with immunoassays, samples containing concentrations of THC above the threshold will be routinely assayed for the THC-COOH metabolite by GC/MS. A urine sample that exhibits little or no recovery of a deuterated IS or target drug is highly suggestive of an adulterant such as nitrite (2).

Using elemental analysis, mass spectrometry (for pyridine), ion chromatography (for chloride), and inductively coupled plasma atomic emission spectroscopy, the active ingredient in Urine Luck was determined to be PCC. Urine samples adulterated with PCC tested by GC/MS will produce results that are similar to those for nitrite, i.e., low or no recovery of the IS or target drug. This adulterant differs from nitrite, however, because at high concentrations, the chemical also produces negative immunoassay screening results. Thus, drug testing laboratories unaware of the presence of PCC will not perform GC/MS analysis, and the use of PCC may escape detection. Its presence can be suspected by the presence of an abnormally low pH or the appearance of an orange tint to the urine.

So basically if you can get through without a GC/MS run you may be ok. If not, this stuff will destroy the internal standard which sets off a red flag that the sample may contain an adulterant. An inexperienced GC/MS operator could misinterpret results like this but I have a feeling someone more experienced would have to sign off on it and thus, would recognize.

Nothing says friendship like borrowed urine :)

References:
(1)Alan H.B. Wu,a, Ben Bristol, Karen Sexton, Gina Cassella-McLane, Verena Holtman and Dennis W. Hill. "Adulteration of Urine by "Urine Luck" Clinical Chemistry 45: 1051-1057, 1999;

(2)ElSohly MA, Feng S, Kopycki WJ, Murphy TP, Jones AB, Davis A, Carr D. A procedure to overcome interferences caused by the adulterant "Klear" in the GC-MS analysis of 11-nor-9-THC-9COOH. J Anal Toxicol 1997;21:240-242

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Nitrites can be readily detected by a urinalysis dipstick test or through direct chemical analysis. Because nitrites do not interfere with immunoassays, samples containing concentrations of THC above the threshold will be routinely assayed for the THC-COOH metabolite by GC/MS. A urine sample that exhibits little or no recovery of a deuterated IS or target drug is highly suggestive of an adulterant such as nitrite (2).

Using elemental analysis, mass spectrometry (for pyridine), ion chromatography (for chloride), and inductively coupled plasma atomic emission spectroscopy, the active ingredient in Urine Luck was determined to be PCC. Urine samples adulterated with PCC tested by GC/MS will produce results that are similar to those for nitrite, i.e., low or no recovery of the IS or target drug. This adulterant differs from nitrite, however, because at high concentrations, the chemical also produces negative immunoassay screening results. Thus, drug testing laboratories unaware of the presence of PCC will not perform GC/MS analysis, and the use of PCC may escape detection. Its presence can be suspected by the presence of an abnormally low pH or the appearance of an orange tint to the urine.

So basically if you can get through without a GC/MS run you may be ok. If not, this stuff will destroy the internal standard which sets off a red flag that the sample may contain an adulterant. An inexperienced GC/MS operator could misinterpret results like this but I have a feeling someone more experienced would have to sign off on it and thus, would recognize.
References:
(1)Alan H.B. Wu,a, Ben Bristol, Karen Sexton, Gina Cassella-McLane, Verena Holtman and Dennis W. Hill. "Adulteration of Urine by "Urine Luck" Clinical Chemistry 45: 1051-1057, 1999;

(2)ElSohly MA, Feng S, Kopycki WJ, Murphy TP, Jones AB, Davis A, Carr D. A procedure to overcome interferences caused by the adulterant "Klear" in the GC-MS analysis of 11-nor-9-THC-9COOH. J Anal Toxicol 1997;21:240-242

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Your references are outdated - made long before the current methodologies mandated by DHHS/SAMHSA/DOT:

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Subpart F - Drug Testing Laboratories
§ 40.95 What are the adulterant cutoff concentrations for initial and confirmation tests?

(a) As a laboratory, you must use the cutoff concentrations for the initial and confirmation adulterant testing as required by the HHS Mandatory Guidelines and you must use two separate aliquots â?? one for the initial test and another for the confirmation test.
(b) As a laboratory, you must report results at or above the cutoffs (or for pH, at or above or below the values, as appropriate) as adulterated and provide the numerical value that supports the adulterated result.
[65 FR 79526, December 19, 2000, as amended at 73 FR 35970, June 25, 2008]

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Which brings us to....

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Adulterated
The following criteria have been established to report a specimen as adulterated:
(1) The pH is less than 3 or greater than or equal to 11 using either a pH meter or a colorimetric pH test for the initial test on the first aliquot and a pH meter for the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;

(2) The nitrite concentration is greater than or equal to 500 mcg/mL using either a nitrite colorimetric test or a general oxidant colorimetric test for the initial test on the first aliquot and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multi-wavelength spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, capillary electrophoresis) on the second aliquot;

(3) The presence of chromium (VI) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent cutoff) or a chromium (VI) colorimetric test (chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL) for the initial test on the first aliquot and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multi-wavelength spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, atomic absorption spectrophotometry, capillary electrophoresis, inductively coupled plasma-mass
spectrometry) with the chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;

(4) The presence of halogen (e.g., bleach, iodine, fluoride) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 200 mcg/mL nitrite equivalentcutoff or a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent cutoff) or halogen colorimetric test (halogen concentration greater than or equal to the LOD) for the initial test on the first aliquot and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multiwavelength
spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, inductively coupled plasma-mass
spectrometry) with a specific halogen concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;

(5) The presence of glutaraldehyde is verified using either an aldehyde test (aldehyde present) or the characteristic immunoassay response on one or more drug immunoassay tests for the initial test on the first aliquot and GC/MS for the confirmatory test with the glutaraldehyde concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the analysis on the second aliquot;

(6) The presence of pyridine (pyridinium chlorochromate) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 200 mcg/mL nitrite equivalent cutoff or a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent cutoff) or a chromium (VI) colorimetric test (chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL) for the initial test on the first aliquot, and GC/MS for the confirmatory test with the pyridine concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the
analysis on the second aliquot .




Sources:
http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/NEW_DOCS...5_20080625.pdf
http://www.workplace.samhsa.gov/Drug...ary%202005.pdf
Drug Testing

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With all this pointed out, my original point still stands. Additive use is not recommended if youre taking a DOT test. They will be detected.

Hello, I'm back to work now and still curious about the new drug testing policy. I spoke with someone that had to submit a urine sample>it is a DOT compliance drug test< and he said that they put dye in the sample after he passed it to them. Does anyone know what the dye is for?

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Originally Posted by toolenit

Hello, I'm back to work now and still curious about the new drug testing policy. I spoke with someone that had to submit a urine sample>it is a DOT compliance drug test< and he said that they put dye in the sample after he passed it to them. Does anyone know what the dye is for?

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Sounds like that "someone" is pulling your leg. With this being a DOT test, the collector is not supposed to put dye or anything in the urine sample. Doing so will compromise the integrity of the test and results. The collector is only permitted to split the sample 30/15, initial, bag, and send off the samples to the lab for analysis. With DOT testing, the collection facility must adhere to the regulations for preparing the specimens. Here are the actual regulations for preparing/sending off the specimens:

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Subpart E - Urine Specimen Collections

§ 40.71 How does the collector prepare the specimens?

(a) All collections under DOT agency drug testing regulations must be split specimen collections.
(b) As the collector, you must take the following steps, in order, after the employee brings the urine specimen to you. You must take these steps in the presence of the employee.
(1) Check the box on the CCF (Step 2) indicating that this was a split specimen collection.
(2) You, not the employee, must first pour at least 30 mL of urine from the collection container into one specimen bottle, to be used for the primary specimen.
(3) You, not the employee, must then pour at least 15 mL of urine from the collection container into the second specimen bottle to be used for the split specimen.
(4) You, not the employee, must place and secure (i.e., tighten or snap) the lids/caps on the bottles.
(5) You, not the employee, must seal the bottles by placing the tamper-evident bottle seals over the bottle caps/lids and down the sides of the bottles.
(6) You, not the employee, must then write the date on the tamper-evident bottle seals.
(7) You must then ensure that the employee initials the tamper-evident bottle seals for the purpose of certifying that the bottles contain the specimens he or she provided. If the employee fails or refuses to do
so, you must note this in the â??Remarksâ?� line of the CCF (Step 2) and complete the collection process.
(8) You must discard any urine left over in the collection container after both specimen bottles have been appropriately filled and sealed. There is one exception to this requirement: you may use excess urine to conduct clinical tests (e.g., protein, glucose) if the collection was conducted in conjunction with a physical examination required by a DOT agency regulation. Neither you nor anyone else may conduct further testing (such as adulteration testing) on this excess urine and the employee has no legal right to
demand that the excess urine be turned over to the employee.

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And...

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Subpart E - Urine Specimen Collections
§ 40.73 How is the collection process completed?

(a) As the collector, you must do the following things to complete the collection process. You must complete the steps called for in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(7) of this section in the employee's presence.
(1) Direct the employee to read and sign the certification statement on Copy 2 (Step 5) of the CCF and provide date of birth, printed name, and day and evening contact telephone numbers. If the employee refuses to sign the CCF or to provide date of birth, printed name, or telephone numbers, you must note this in the â??Remarksâ?� line (Step 2) of the CCF, and complete the collection. If the employee refuses to fill out any information, you must, as a minimum, print the employee's name in the appropriate place.
(2) Complete the chain of custody on the CCF (Step 4) by printing your name (note: you may preprint your name), recording the time and date of the collection, signing the statement, and entering the name of the delivery service transferring the specimen to the laboratory,
(3) Ensure that all copies of the CCF are legible and complete.
(4) Remove Copy 5 of the CCF and give it to the employee.
(5) Place the specimen bottles and Copy 1 of the CCF in the appropriate pouches of the plastic bag.
(6) Secure both pouches of the plastic bag.
(7) Advise the employee that he or she may leave the collection site.
(8) To prepare the sealed plastic bag containing the specimens and CCF for shipment you must:
(i) Place the sealed plastic bag in a shipping container (e.g., standard courier box) designed to minimize the possibility of damage during shipment. (More than one sealed plastic bag can be placed into a single shipping container if you are doing multiple collections.)
(ii) Seal the container as appropriate.
(iii) If a laboratory courier hand-delivers the specimens from the collection site to the laboratory, prepare the sealed plastic bag for shipment as directed by the courier service.
(9) Send Copy 2 of the CCF to the MRO and Copy 4 to the DER. You must fax or otherwise transmit these copies to the MRO and DER within 24 hours or during the next business day. Keep Copy 3 for at least 30 days, unless otherwise specified by applicable DOT agency regulations.
(b) As a collector or collection site, you must ensure that each specimen you collect is shipped to a laboratory as quickly as possible, but in any case within 24 hours or during the next business day.
[65 FR 79526, Dec.19, 2000, as amended at 71 FR 49384, Aug.23,2006]

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And again, these regulations are the most current.

thanks toast.

I just wanted to add for anyone who may still be curious. You DO NOT get drug tested during a DOT Physical. Unless your company orders a UA while you are getting your physical you have nothing to worry about. I asked the nurse why I had to pee, and she said it was to check for glucose, and in fact specifically said "It isn't a drug test!"

Also, if you go into your check up with sub piss in your crotch, i am sure it would make for an awkward explanation when you drop your pants for your hernia check.

I would also like to add if you can sub, thats the way to go IMHO. I do it all the time!