If the world could vote...

World hopes for a 'less arrogant America' after presidential election
Published: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 | 9:39 AM ET
Canadian Press: William J. Kole And Matt Moore, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

BERLIN - The world was riveted by the election drama unfolding Tuesday in the United States, inspired by the hope embodied by Barack Obama or simply relieved that - whoever wins - an administration that spawned Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay was coming to an end.

From Berlin's Brandenburg Gate to the small town of Obama, Japan, the globe geared up to celebrate a fresh start for America after eight wearisome years of George W. Bush.

In Germany, where more than 200,000 flocked to see Obama this summer as he moved to burnish his foreign policy credentials during a trip to the Middle East and Europe, the election dominated television ticker crawls, newspaper headlines and websites.

Hundreds of thousands prepared to party through the night to watch the outcome of an election having an impact far beyond America's shores. Among the more irreverent festivities planned in Paris: a "Goodbye George" party to bid farewell to Bush.

"Like many French people, I would like Obama to win because it would really be a sign of change," said Vanessa Doubine, shopping Tuesday on the Champs-Elysees. "I deeply hope for America's image that it will be Obama."

Europeans had a sense of the momentous change that was about to unfold.

"America is electing a new president, but for the Germans, for Europeans, it is electing the next world leader," said Alexander Rahr, director of the German Council on Foreign Relations.

"We see new challenges coming up, not only Islamic extremism, but a newly resurgent Russia, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea - everywhere there are fires," he said. "And we, as Europeans, can't solve these problems without America. A world without American leadership is, for most Europeans, a world of chaos."

Obama-mania was evident not only across Europe, where millions geared up for all-night vigils, but also in much of the Islamic world, where Muslims expressed hope that the Democrat would seek compromise rather than confrontation.

The Bush administration alienated Muslims by mistreating prisoners at its detention centre for terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and inmates at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison - human rights violations also condemned worldwide.

"I hope Obama wins (because) of the need of the world to see the U.S. represent a more cosmopolitan or universal political attitude," said Rais Yatim, the foreign minister of mostly Muslim Malaysia.

"The new president will have an impact on the economic and political situation in my country," said Muhammad al-Thaheri, 48, a civil servant in Saudi Arabia. Like so many around the world, he was rooting for Obama "because he will change the path the U.S. is on under Bush."

Nizar al-Kortas, a columnist for Kuwait's Al-Anbaa newspaper, saw an Obama victory as "a historic step to change the image of the arrogant American administration to one that is more acceptable in the world."

Yet John McCain enjoyed a strong current of support in countries such as Israel, where he is perceived as tougher on Iran.

Israeli leaders have not openly declared a preference. But privately, they have expressed concern about Obama, who has alarmed some by saying he would be ready to hold a dialogue with Tehran.

Taking a cigarette break on a Jerusalem street corner, bank employee Leah Nizri, 53, said Obama represented potentially frightening change.

"I think he'll be pleasant to Israel, but he will make changes," she said. "He's too young. I think that especially in a situation of a world recession, where things are so unclear in the world, McCain would be better than Obama."

Even in Europe, McCain got some grudging respect: Germany's mass-circulation daily Bild lionized the Republican as "the War Hero" and running mate Sarah Palin as "the Beautiful Unknown."

In Berlin, Republicans Abroad organized a "November Surprise Election Party" to watch live "how the Republican ticket McCain/Palin comes from behind and leaves the liberal elite media in Europe and the United States puzzled."

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown clung to convention by refusing to say which candidate he wants to see win. Regardless of the outcome, he told Al-Arabiya television while on a tour of the Gulf, "history has been made in this campaign."

London Mayor Boris Johnson, a Conservative, felt less constrained about rooting for the liberal Obama.

"For those who have become disenchanted with America, including many Americans, (Obama) offers the hope of reigniting the love affair," he said.

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.

In Baghdad, Mohammed al-Tamimi said he didn't think U.S. policy on Iraq would change. Even so, "we hope that the new American president will open a new page with our country."

Kenyans made their allegiances clear: Scores packed churches on Tuesday to pray for Obama, whose late father was born in the East African country, and hailed the candidate - himself born in Hawaii - as a "son of the soil."

"Tonight we are not going to sleep," said Valentine Wambi, 23, a student at the University of Nairobi. "It will be celebrations throughout."

Kenyans believe an Obama victory wouldn't change their lives much, but that hasn't stopped them from splashing his picture on minibuses and selling T-shirts with his name and likeness. Kenyans were planning to gather around radios and TV sets starting Tuesday night as the results come in.

"We will feast if Obama wins," said Robert Rutaro, a university president in neighbouring Uganda. "We will celebrate by marching on the streets of Kampala and hold a big party later on."

In the sleepy Japanese coastal town of Obama - which translates as "little beach" - images of him adorned banners along a main shopping street, and preparations for an election day victory party were in full swing.

Election fever also ran high in Vietnam, where McCain was held as a prisoner of war for more than five years after being shot down in Hanoi during a 1967 bombing run.

"He's patriotic," said Le Lan Anh, a Vietnamese novelist and real estate tycoon. "As a soldier, he came here to destroy my country, but I admire his dignity."

© The Canadian Press, 2008

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Originally Posted by maladroit

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.

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Like whites that are alive today owe blacks anything. Did I have slaves? My parents have slaves? My grand parents have slaves? My great grand parents have slaves? How far back are we going to go? If we are going to go back hundreds of years how about we start telling blacks to make amends for what their ancestors did to each other. I hate when someone plays the we owe them something card. It is just bullshit. I am not racist in any way and have family that is half black namely my nieces. It just pisses me off when someone actually thinks this is a reason to vote for Obama and believe me I know many who are doing it just for that.

If the world could vote to elect a president/leader i would run, but then again the media would only show you 2 choices out of 7 billions theirs and not yours.

I think Obama will have a more co-operative and respectful foreign policy than Bush, and that is part of what the world is responding to. And there are many issues that matter a lot to a lot of the world (and also matter to a LOT of Americans) that Bush ignored and Obama will not ignore. One example is Global Climate Change --- it matters a lot to the rest of the world and also to a lot of Americans, but Bush refused to be a part of the global effort to stop it. That cost us a lot of credibility and respect. When the whole world comes together on an issue, and we refuse to be a part of the solution, it makes us small and petty --- we should be involved.

I don't think the world hates America, although they may hate particular adminsitrations and policies. I think much of the world ADMIRES America or at least admires its IDEALS. I think much of the so-called "hatred" of the last few years has had a lot to do with disillusionment and disappointment with America as we have failed to live up to our own ideals. Our own elections have not been as "clean" as they should be, so we lose credibility as a champion of Democracy. We arrogantly invaded another country that did not attack us, and to a lot of the world it looks like we did it to steal their resources, so we lose credibility as a champion of international justice. We tortured prisoners, so we lose credibility as a champion of human rights. We diminished our own rights against illegal wiretaps and searches, so we lose credibility as a champion of individual liberty. This current election has had an undertone of racism and xenophobia, so we lose credibility as a champion of equal rights and freedom of religion. Our economy is falling apart due to acts of greed and corruption, and it's dragging down the world economy with it, so we lose credibility as a champion of sound economic practices and a engine of the world's economy.

I think a lot of the world only "hates" us the way fans turn on a sports hero when they are found to be a cheater or in some other way weaker than their reputation. Personally, I think if we elect Obama, it will go a long way to restore the world's faith that we actually do practice our ideals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Like whites that are alive today owe blacks anything. Did I have slaves? My parents have slaves? My grand parents have slaves? My great grand parents have slaves? How far back are we going to go? If we are going to go back hundreds of years how about we start telling blacks to make amends for what their ancestors did to each other. I hate when someone plays the we owe them something card. It is just bullshit. I am not racist in any way and have family that is half black namely my nieces. It just pisses me off when someone actually thinks this is a reason to vote for Obama and believe me I know many who are doing it just for that.

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I don't think that is what the quote is really about. It's not that America OWES blacks a president. It's the idea that we SAY we are a nation of equal rights, but no one but white people have ever won the presidency. Having a black president would show that we have moved beyond that. So it's not about voting for him BECAUSE he is black --- no one OWES him the presidency for being black. But if he can win the presidency on his merits DESPITE the fact that he is black, it would show the world (and ourselves) that we are past the time when we let race hold a deserving person back in this country.

It would be stupid to vote FOR him because he is black. It would also be stupid to vote AGAINST him because he is black. I am voting for him becasue of his policies, character and temperment. The fact that he is a black man is totally beside the point. But the fact that the person I like for policies, character and temperment also happens to be a black man is something I am very happy about because I think it is time America fulfilled its promise to ALL of its citizens. It is a turning point.

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

I don't think that is what the quote is really about. It's not that America OWES blacks a president. It's the idea that we SAY we are a nation of equal rights, but no one but white people have ever won the presidency. Having a black president would show that we have moved beyond that. So it's not about voting for him BECAUSE he is black --- no one OWES him the presidency for being black. But if he can win the presidency on his merits DESPITE the fact that he is black, it would show the world (and ourselves) that we are past the time when we let race hold a deserving person back in this country.

It would be stupid to vote FOR him because he is black. It would also be stupid to vote AGAINST him because he is black. I am voting for him becasue of his policies, character and temperment. The fact that he is a black man is totally beside the point. But the fact that the person I like for policies, character and temperment also happens to be a black man is something I am very happy about because I think it is time America fulfilled its promise to ALL of its citizens. It is a turning point.

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thank you!!! excellent points

I think what the person meant is loud and clear.

"It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past"

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

I think what the person meant is loud and clear.

"It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past"

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Read it show you want, but I stand by my point.

And regardless of what this person meant, you and I AGREE that no one should vote for Obama with the idea that we OWE it to him for being black. Likewise, no one should vote AGAINST him for his race. This is America where "all men are created equal" and a person should rise and fall on their own merits regardless of race. If we elect Obama, believe me, it will be because of his merits, not because of his race.

I agree we should elect someone on their merits, but their are always going to be those that don't because of racism or reverse racism.

NOBODY is voting for obama because they want to be forgiven for slavery...the first black president must be associated with the racial history of the united states...it's an unavoidable observation, but it's still just an observation

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!

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Originally Posted by maladroit

it shows over 80% of americans voting for barack obama

that can't be right!

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No, that makes perfect sense - it is a self selecting group that takes the poll. In the case of Americans, it is the subset that acknowledges that the rest of the world exists. Obviously this is going to be a higher correlation with Obama voters than McCain voters. Think about it, how many McCain voters would even go to the website or care about the results?

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Originally Posted by maladroit

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!

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Ha ha! Owes himself an apology!

Jon Stewart asked Obama if he is just SAYING he is for himself for political correctness, but when he gets in the privacy of the voting booth, his white half will just be unable to bring itself to vote for his black half! Ha ha!

I cast my vote just now for Obama --- did it for myself, my country, and on behalf of the world. I want to see this country respected again.

Good glad to see people voting no matter which way they vote. I voted for McCain for the same reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maladroit

NOBODY is voting for obama because they want to be forgiven for slavery...the first black president must be associated with the racial history of the united states...it's an unavoidable observation, but it's still just an observation

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!

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Records show that some of Obama's maternal white ancestors were slaveholders. Since his father was Kenyan, he is not the descendant of African slaves in America and therefore does not owe himself an apology.

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Good glad to see people voting no matter which way they vote. I voted for McCain for the same reasons.

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I feel the same way. Good on you for voting!

And no matter how this election goes, I think we are getting a better president than the one we are getting rid of.

huh? if your mom's ancestors were slaveowners it's ok but if your dad's ancestors were slaveowners it's bad? cool! my relatives on my mother's side did some nasty stuff and now i don't have to feel guilty anymore...too bad for my cousins - they're going straight to hell!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maladroit

huh? if your mom's ancestors were slaveowners it's ok but if your dad's ancestors were slaveowners it's bad? cool! my relatives on my mother's side did some nasty stuff and now i don't have to feel guilty anymore...too bad for my cousins - they're going straight to hell!

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I did not mean that it mattered whether the slaveholders were from his mother's ancestry, or his father's. In Obama's case, he has no known ancestors that were slaves - from either side. I was just giving the facts concerning his ancestry - it could just as well have been that his mother was Black and from another counry, and his father an American descendant of slaveholders. Some people have slaves/slaveholders on both sides, all kind of combinations, or neither. In any case, Obama does not owe himself an "apology". :)

oops sorry i didn't get the no-slaves-from-kenya premise

dammit that means i'm still going to hell! WAH!!

the BBC news channel is reporting results ahead of CNN...i am amazed that mccain has 49% of the popular vote so far (6:49PST)...mccain is doing much better than i thought he would

That is the Bradley effect right there.

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Originally Posted by maladroit

the BBC news channel is reporting results ahead of CNN...i am amazed that mccain has 49% of the popular vote so far (6:49PST)...mccain is doing much better than i thought he would

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

That is the Bradley effect right there.

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Not enough "Bradley effect" to win it for McCain though. They called it for Obama about 4 hours ago. At that point he had over 338 Electoral votes wiht four states not yet called. It was close in the popular vote, but a landslide in the Electoral votes, which is close to what the polls have been saying for a long time --- so the "Bradley effect" was barely in effect at all.

Not necessarily true, how do you know it wasn't a combination of the Bradley effect or reverse Bradley effect and they merely canceled each other out. Not to mention how far ahead Obama was in polls and some of those votes swung McCain's way.

looks liek it was a landslide victory for McCain in.... Niue? 1 vote lol

Hm, didnt read the ENTIRE thread, but responding to the why the world hates America thing....

I am Australian and almost every knowledgeable person I know hates America mainly because of Bush.
And also because of all the mass amounts of secrecy and Government cover-ups n whatnot.
I'm not talking about Area 51 and such but the way the Government just tried to hide everything from their people until it finally gets leaked and they come up with some bullshit transparent excuse. The trouble is most Americans (NOT ALL) don't even realise that it's complete bullshit. Example. The Bush Government tried to convince (and succeeded) the American public that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the attacks on 9/11 through clever(?) manipulation.

The fact that most Americans just take whatever the Government says for granted is rather annoying. But it's mainly just the fact that the politicians take for granted that Americans are so gullible.

Another reason is that I have to spell realise with a 'z' instead of an 's' if I don't want underlines all over my work. LOL, jk, but seriously....

Americans think they rule the world, or ARE the world. Again I'm not talking about all of you but a LOT!
We didn't think Obama should be President to ruin your country further lol but you're right that it was partly for our own interests.
WE want this bullshit war to stop!
Whatever America does England and Australia will follow. No matter what it is. Obama seems a lot less inclined towards pointless war and thus we will stop having to put our troops and resources into another countries bullshit.
Of course this is our politicians fault as well, but if America was smarter it wouldn't matter. In other words it's easier to fix one place than every other place.

Also you guys were talking about slaves and all that shit and having to feel guilty about it. Why? It doesn't matter, you didn't do anything, Obama didn't do anything. Why should you have to feel guilty because, in the words of Ben Folds I think 'my great great great great grandad made someones great great great great grandaddy slaves'
Something like that lol.

Anyway, dunno if you can take another reality check but when you come to other countries as tourists, you are FUCKING loud. It just makes you all seem ignorant and oblivious to any other persons existence but yours.

That's enough though, for now. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apocolips31

Not necessarily true, how do you know it wasn't a combination of the Bradley effect or reverse Bradley effect and they merely canceled each other out. Not to mention how far ahead Obama was in polls and some of those votes swung McCain's way.

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I think polls were quite accurate this time around, obama won by more than 5% leverage in popular vote, but i give it to ya about bradley effect

and about polls on electoral votes, well obama beat the most optimistic electoral vote poll (RCP) by almost 30 votes!!! 311 was the number on their site few days b4 the election, reduced to 278 solid on election eve, he won like 340

EDIT: make that 350 and 53% to 46% on popular vote, lets see 7% ahead. that would confirm a 9-10% leverage in polls with 2-3% error margin on most polls

MOST Americans are gullible and stupid? MOST Americans don't know what is going on and only think of themselves? Well MOST Americans just voted for Obama. Bet you feel dumb right about now....