bailout plan may widen to more industries

Something interesting to ponder.GM becomes top-selling foreign automaker in China

For some reason, GM is highly competitive in China, and is/has been the top selling foreign auto maker in China. Which begs me to ask; why is it in a market that is UAW absent, GM exceeds Toyota, certis paribus? It must be the management:thumbsup:

An Auto Bailout Would Be Terrible for Free Trade - WSJ.com

From the article:

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GM continued to lead in market share and became the first global auto maker to surpass the one-million mark in single-year unit sales in China.

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Originally Posted by maladroit

FACTBOX-Industry bailouts agreed or called for | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

FACTBOX-Industry bailouts agreed or called for
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:25am EDT

GENEVA, Oct 28 (Reuters) - Bailouts for industrial sectors hit by the financial crisis are open to challenge under international trade rules, lawyers say.

The following lists major measures called for or agreed to help industry:

* A $10 billion rescue package to support a merger between the biggest and third biggest U.S. carmakers, General Motors Corp (GM) (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler, mostly owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP [CBS.UL]. [ID:nN27356776]

* A call by congressmen from Michigan, the home of the Detroit-based carmakers, for a bailout for all three U.S. manufacturers, including second-place Ford Motor Co (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz). [ID:nL0520213]

* The U.S. Congress approved $25 billion in low-interest loans last month to GM, Ford and Chrysler to help them meet a federal target for more fuel-efficient cars.




"Should the government bail out private enterprise? The answer is no, it shouldn't."
- President George Bush, July 2008, responding to a question about a possible government bailout for General Motors

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I dont see the auto industry trying to make money to bail themselves out

Why dont they lower the selling prices(they have huge profit margins) and give 0 % apr.....fire your upper executives who get the big bonus

"why is it in a market that is UAW absent, GM exceeds Toyota, certis paribus? It must be the management"

- FIRST: all other things are not equal...toyota was one of the last carmakers to build factories in china, toyota cars cost more, chinese disposable income is lower, almost all the cars GM sells in china are made in china, and some of toyota's car sales in china were imports (china imposes a 25% import duty on cars)

SECOND: GM is not outselling toyota in china...it is the other way around despite the lack of *ceteris* paribus:
GM's car sales slide in China, outsold by Toyota - China automotive news



so what do you think about the wall street journal article that is critical of the auto bailout? is the bailout a bad idea for the auto business, bad for the US dollar, and bad for the general economy?

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Originally Posted by maladroit

"why is it in a market that is UAW absent, GM exceeds Toyota, certis paribus? It must be the management"

- FIRST: all other things are not equal...toyota was one of the last carmakers to build factories in china, toyota cars cost more, chinese disposable income is lower, almost all the cars GM sells in china are made in china, and some of toyota's car sales in china were imports (china imposes a 25% import duty on cars)

SECOND: GM is not outselling toyota in china...it is the other way around despite the lack of *ceteris* paribus:
GM's car sales slide in China, outsold by Toyota - China automotive news



so what do you think about the wall street journal article that is critical of the auto bailout? is the bailout a bad idea for the auto business, bad for the US dollar, and bad for the general economy?

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The bailout in general is a bad idea, of all these companies. The country has said a VERY resounding NO to every bailout proposition. I personally am willing to take a serious hit to my wallet and my lifestyle if it means we can take one step closer to destroying corporate greed and excess. This is about way more than money, its about ethics. We have to send a message to these companies and to the government that this behavior wont be tolerated. Whatever happened to free enterprise? Pull yourself by your own bootstraps? If you can't do the job we'll find someone who can? If a company can't compete it DESERVES to fail. NO company (or 3) is so important that it can't die. None.

it looks like canada is getting set to bail out the american auto manufacturers

the auto industry claimed that canada's economy would be destroyed if one or more of the automakers failed...i don't believe that

rich stay rich......why do you think gas was so high 3 months later its more than $2 a gallon less......someone is making alot of money

CEO's of big three automakers fly private jets to washington with their begging buckets:
Breitbart.tv » CEOs of Big 3 Automakers Fly Via Private Jet to Ask for Billions in Bailout Cash


we're stupid, give us money so we can lose more money...WAH! you owe us...PAY UP OR ELSE WE TAKE THE ECONOMY DOWN WITH US!!

good news everybody...congress is going to bail out brazil!



Latin American Herald Tribune - General Motors to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations -- Money to Come from U.S. Rescue Program

General Motors to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations -- Money to Come from U.S. Rescue Program

By Russ Dallen
Latin American Herald Tribune staff

General Motors plans to invest $1 billion in Brazil to avoid the kind of problems the U.S. automaker is facing in its home market, said the beleaguered car maker.

According to the president of GM Brazil-Mercosur, Jaime Ardila, the funding will come from the package of financial aid that the manufacturer will receive from the U.S. government and will be used to "complete the renovation of the line of products up to 2012."

"It wouldn't be logical to withdraw the investment from where we're growing, and our goal is to protect investments in emerging markets," he said in a statement published by the business daily Gazeta Mercantil.

Meanwhile, he cut the company's revenue forecast for this year by 14% to $9.5 billion from $11 billion, as the economic crisis began to cause rapid slowdowns in sales.

GM already announced three programs of paid leave, and Ardila added that GM Brazil "is going to wait and see how the market behaves in order to know what decision to take" with regard to possible layoffs.

For Ardila, the injection in Brazil's automobile sector of 8 billion reais ($3.51 billion) recently announced by the federal and state governments of Sao Paulo "has already begun to revive sales," which fell by 12% in October.

The executive said that the company will operate a "conservative" scenario in 2009 with an estimated production of 2.6 million units, and another more "optimistic" that contemplates sales of 2.9 million.

This year sales will reach 2.85 million vehicles, which represents a growth of 15% over last year.

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Originally Posted by maladroit

SECOND: GM is not outselling toyota in china...it is the other way around despite the lack of *ceteris* paribus

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Toyota did have an equal opportunnity, or so i would believe, to explore Chinese markets.

From your article:

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The figures exclude minivans, trucks and other vehicles.

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GM was the first foreign auto maker to sell 1 million units in China.

Source:General Motors First Global Automaker to Sell 1 Million Vehicles in Single Year in China

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so what do you think about the wall street journal article that is critical of the auto bailout? is the bailout a bad idea for the auto business, bad for the US dollar, and bad for the general economy?

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After keeping a close eye on the situation this past week, chapter 11 bankruptcy is the only thing that will void UAW contracts.

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Peter Morici:"The simple fact is that the best solution for Chrysler is Chapter 11 to remove the burdens of the UAW (the industry trade union) contract and scale down the company to something one half to two thirds its current size. That would serve GMâ??s interests tooâ??both Ford and GM would benefit from some capacity and cars going off the market."

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Remember when we talked about Say's law. Supply does create its own demand. What this law states is that different levels of supply will be accompanied by different levels of demand. Low supply creates high demand, therefore Say's law is correct!

The only company too big to fail is the U.S. government. Not one of these bastards deserve a dime. Sucks for the workers who'll get laid off, but thats where the chips fall. You think any of these fucks are actually gonna change? Do you really think they wont be back in a few months for another hand out?

Social/economic engineering. Get used to it. That's the soup du jour.

Peace, Sage

Hyundai,Toyota,Mercedes-Benz all locoated here in Alabama & not asking for bailouts..no unions involved in the South;)

Damn Yankees stay in the mess you created & stop moving here....LOL.

Oh we almost had VW but TN got that one..again no unions:thumbsup:

how can anyone say with a straight face that unions are the reason for the auto industry's woes? Toyota, and Mercedes-Benz have and continue to make efficient and well made cars. Meanwhile, Detroit decides that the SUV was the flagship of the American auto industry, almost fighting change tooth and nail. Now we see how well that worked out.

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Originally Posted by RamblerGambler

how can anyone say with a straight face that unions are the reason for the auto industry's woes? Toyota, and Mercedes-Benz have and continue to make efficient and well made cars. Meanwhile, Detroit decides that the SUV was the flagship of the American auto industry, almost fighting change tooth and nail. Now we see how well that worked out.

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As if any of those mentioned above did not produce multiple models of SUV's.

japanese auto management techniques dictate that they don't start building a car until there is a demand for it (pull production)...there is a demand for some SUV's, and they manufactured to meet the market

american auto management chose to focus on the most profitable models with big engines and matching price tags, and then crafted marketing campaigns to sell vehicles that were not in high demand (push production)

that partly explains why japanese-owned factories operated at close to 100% capacity for years while US automakers were idling plants


What is Pull Production?

Originating from the infamous Toyota Corporation, pull production is a process that aims to arrange an organization so that customer preference or orders are what cause materials to be "pulled" through a system. The idea is that the manufacturer only produces what the consumer wants when the consumer wants them. In other words, a product need only be produced at the same rate that they are being sold. In a pull production system inventory is reduced, work in progress is not exceeding demand, and the need for raw materials is comparable to the demand for the product.

Interesting article: 10 Cars That Sank Detroit - FlowChart (usnews.com)