not your ordinary first grow

In addition it is worth mentioning that your realistic goal should be about 5 degrees above ambient.

Meaning that if it is 78 degree's in your house.. you should be trying to get it down to, at minimum, 83 degrees. If you're able to drop it any lower then that is just icing on the cake.

It is impossible to run cooler than the ambient temperature outside your grow room. Meaning that if it's 78 degree's outside the box.. unless you get some other means of refridgeration type cooling going, the absolute best you can hope for is 78 degrees.

So when you look at your temperatures ask yourself 'am I within 5 degrees ambient or close'.

Nice Info. Also benefited me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daihashi

To determine how much cooling you need.. take the cubic footage of your area and divide by 5 minutes.

so if you're growing in a 3x3x3 area that would be 27cu.ft.. to evacuate that in 5 minutes you would need a fan the blew about 5.5CFM. However I've never been a fan of the 5 minute rule. I like to use 1 minute for reference or faster if I can help it.

So in this case you would need 27CFM of unrestricted air flow. Computer fans do not have high velocity such as inline fans or squirrel cage fans, therefore I would recommend more powerful fans which it appears you have covered.

Unless you're running CO2, you cannot have too much exhaust.




You want them all set to exhaust. You want to create several passive intakes very low in the box. Your passive intakes must be, at minimum, equal in size and number to the number of exhausts/exhaust holes you have. Furthermore you want to try, TRY, to have all your exhausts setup to the top of the grow area in a blow hole fashion.

This will draw cool air in from the bottom of your grow box.. allow it to travel upward with the rising hot air and back out the box.

The reason you want passive intake is that because unless the intake and exhaust are running equal amount of pressure (flowing the same rate of CFM) then all you're doing by putting an active system in is creating a restriction and turbulent air flow.. basically hot air that just swirls around, inside your grow environment.

So in summary set all your fans to exhaust, put them at the top of your grow box, create as many passive intakes low in the box as you have exhausts...

I have more advice I can give, but give that a go first.

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thanks a lot daihashi! i was thinking of flipping the box upside down and using the handles (where the side fans are) as intakes. maybe i'll do that and add all the fans to the top. does the arrangement matter? i'm gonna start messing with it now. i'm not gonna make any more cuts until i hear back. thanks again.

-shake

Nice box grow man, I have thought about using a similar setup to veg in, but have had the concerns of fire on my mind. I have been pricing and to build a similar sizes box out of 1 bys and 1/4 inch ply should only run $10-$15. Seems like a much safe alternative. Good luck I'll be keeping up on this grow. :)

i just went to check it out. i set all the fans to exhaust. would they be fine where they are at all set to exhaust with the passive intakes at the bottom? or should i put them all on the very top and use those holes for intakes? i can do either. just not trying to mangle the box too much.

also, one plant has little brown marks on a few of the leaves. i tried to get a pic but it was hard to tell what exactly was going on. are they too close to the lights? what would be optimum distance? the 5 second hand rule?

-shake

I'm unsure about the airflow, but as far as the little brown spots, I had the tips on the lower set of leaves turn brown on 2 of my plants. From what I gathered it was a sign of root rot. Caused by too much water and not enough drainage. Let the dirt get bone dry before watering. Since I started doing that I have had no further problems. The brown has not progressed any further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baka123

I'm unsure about the airflow, but as far as the little brown spots, I had the tips on the lower set of leaves turn brown on 2 of my plants. From what I gathered it was a sign of root rot. Caused by too much water and not enough drainage. Let the dirt get bone dry before watering. Since I started doing that I have had no further problems. The brown has not progressed any further.

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thanks baka! i'll try that. they seem to dry out about every 2-3 days. i did use miracle grow at 1/4 the recommended amount.

-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

thanks a lot daihashi! i was thinking of flipping the box upside down and using the handles (where the side fans are) as intakes. maybe i'll do that and add all the fans to the top. does the arrangement matter? i'm gonna start messing with it now. i'm not gonna make any more cuts until i hear back. thanks again.

-shake

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Well.. It's best to have all the fans located in one area. For example if you want to use a blowhole, then put all the fans in that area to act as a blow hole.

If you want it to be in the upper right, then put all fans there.

However if you currently have fans acting as a blow hole and one fan in the upper left hand/right hand side of the box then that's fine also. It's not optimal but it will work almost as well as if you had them all clustered.

I can understand you not wanting to mangle your box. The worst that can happen is that you might find that you do want to cluster them together.
Change them all to exhaust, make your passive intakes (same amount and total size as all your exhausts combined.), and let us know what happens.

I suspect you'll see a 2-3 degree drop minimum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

i just went to check it out. i set all the fans to exhaust. would they be fine where they are at all set to exhaust with the passive intakes at the bottom? or should i put them all on the very top and use those holes for intakes? i can do either. just not trying to mangle the box too much.

also, one plant has little brown marks on a few of the leaves. i tried to get a pic but it was hard to tell what exactly was going on. are they too close to the lights? what would be optimum distance? the 5 second hand rule?

-shake

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The brown marks could be from your nutrient solution splashing on the leaves, then the light hits it and cooks/burns the leaf that had solution splashed on it.

General rule of thumb when working with CFL's is to keep it about 2-3" from the canopy and no closer than 1-2" away.

good looking daihashi! what about the fan situation. would they be fine exhausting at their current location and just adding the passive intake low on the box? or should i put all the fans on the top? i'll do whatever is best. and i've left the door cracked where to where i can feel the best exhaust from the fans. it keps the temp at about 83.9 (ambient ~81. and the humidity is about 39%. i appreciate the quick responses and plan on making the changes accordingly, asap!

-shake

i didn't see the post above the second one. sorry!

-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

good looking daihashi! what about the fan situation. would they be fine exhausting at their current location and just adding the passive intake low on the box? or should i put all the fans on the top? i'll do whatever is best. and i've left the door cracked where to where i can feel the best exhaust from the fans. it keps the temp at about 83.9 (ambient ~81. and the humidity is about 39%. i appreciate the quick responses and plan on making the changes accordingly, asap!

-shake

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well to be fair I'm not sure you're going to get any lower than 83.9 with your current cooling.

To answer your question. Yes it's fine to leave your fans where they are. it should work ok, but moving them up top all to a central location would probably be best.

The passive intakes are what's most important at the moment (and changing all your fans to exhaust). If your ambient (your room/house temperature) is 81, and your cardboard grow room says 83.9 then I'm not sure you're really going to drop much lower.

ie: I keep my house at 75 degrees in order to keep my grow room running at 78 degrees. And I have a lot of ventilation, 2 inline 6" 424 CFM inline fans.. 1 fan dedicated to a cool tube which houses a 600 watt hps and another 6" fan just for the room itself, for a 4'x4'x7' room.

Cooling will generally be equal to the cost you spent on lighting or very close. Photosynthesis is optimum at around 78 degrees (about 72-78) for every degree over 78 degrees photosynthesis drops dramatically until it comes to crawl/stop at around 85-86 degrees. 78 is optimal, but if you can't hit 78 then as long as you're below 85 degrees then you're that will have to do.

okay, about to do surgery to frankenstein. i'll be back with the details. thanks again!

-shake

ok. i put all of the fans in the top blow-hole style, after flipping the box upside down and using the previous fan holes as intakes and covered what was the top hole and cut the new intake in the back of the box. if it sounds confusing i will post pics.

i've seen it get back up to 88 i think. right now ambient is ~79/80 and the box is running at 83.9. i've also set up a floor fan blowing in one of the intakes at the bottom.

i think part of the problem is the styrofoam that i'm using as a shelf. i did this to keep the plants close enough to the lights. it's blocking airflow i know, but it does have holes in it. i'm trying to find a better shelf that won't block as much airflow or lower the lights. i think i got it down to 82 and some change last night without anything in the box. i know it's not but about 5 degrees above ambient, but i'd still like to get it to cool off more if possible.

pic 1 - the top part of the shelf. the long hole face towards the back of the box.

pic 2 - inside of box, you can see the styrofoam shelf and intake on the right side. there is a 6500K bulb hiding behind that 2700K bulb.

pic 3 - top of the box, exhaust.

pic 4 - top view of shelf as looking into box.

pic 5 - what the shelf looks like inside the box a little closer to eye level.

should i make some reflectors for the lights? just trying to make it as optimum as can be with what i'm working with, ya know? thanks for the advice. keep it coming.


-shake

edit: to upload pics. doh! and the pics got scrambled. dammit!

i was running my ac to help with the heat issue. luckily a cold front came in. the current temp outside is 68. the indoor temp is 79.5. i have the grow box by an open window. things are going pretty good, once i figure out why a few plants are still saggy. i guess it was the heat with over-watering.

i've read 200ml is good per plant and that i want the soil just damp, not wet. is this really enough water? the plants have 3-fingered leaves. is it okay to go with a half/three-quarter dose of miracle grow? they are pretty parched. i misted them this morning. i will water tonight.

-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

i was running my ac to help with the heat issue. luckily a cold front came in. the current temp outside is 68. the indoor temp is 79.5. i have the grow box by an open window. things are going pretty good, once i figure out why a few plants are still saggy. i guess it was the heat with over-watering.

i've read 200ml is good per plant and that i want the soil just damp, not wet. is this really enough water? the plants have 3-fingered leaves. is it okay to go with a half/three-quarter dose of miracle grow? they are pretty parched. i misted them this morning. i will water tonight.

-shake

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for regular watering there is no SET number for how much you should water. This is one of the hardest things for new growers to comprehend and was a problem for me as well.

Here's what you want to do:

1. Water your plant until you get some runoff coming out the bottom. You don't want just a few drops but at the same time you don't want it to be a 30 minute stream of water coming out. You want a decent trickle that lasts for about 2-5 minutes. After it's set for 2-5 minutes let it sit for another 5-10 minutes. This ensures that all the water makes it's way down and you get no dry pockets.

2. pick up the pot around the rim of the pot and memorize with your hands how heavy it felt.

3. Pick up your plants daily to check how much they weigh. Once they weigh approximately half of what they weighed when you watered them you will want to water them again.

4. Repeat step 1

This is how you water a plant.

on thursday night i watered and added 1/4 strength miracle grow. 4 out of the 6 plants have taken off in growth. the two that haven't really done much do look a little better but still are droopy. the plant in the clay pot was planted a week to 10 days after the 5 in the plastic pots. i know the clay pot is big but it was the last one that i had on hand.

i was thinking of stepping up the dose of miracle grow. should i just go about half or 3/4 strength or can i go to full? all of the plants have 3 fingered leaves. and as far as feeding with nutes, i've read many different thoughts on when to feed. i've heard each time, every other time, the third thursday on a full moon on a leap year.....ok so i made the last one up but you get my point!

and what about humidity? i've read that you don't want more than 50% and then i've read that you want to keep it at 80-90% and everything in between. my humidity pretty much hovers around 40%. any suggestions?

as for the temp, well it's running pretty nice at around 78 give or take a degree or two. it get's down to about 68 at night.

here are some pics for all of you visual type, and aren't we all when it comes to this subject matter?! sorry that they aren't that great, my camera sucks. i'm in the market for a new one. thanks for the help again everyone.

i'm off to research LST.

pic 1 - one of the droopy twins.

pic 2 - twin two.

pic 3 - seems to be doing okay.

pic 4 - also seems to be doing fine.

pic 5 - and the last of the original bunch.

-shake

pic 1 - this is the newest planted of the 6.

-shake

for anyone interested or that may be follwing along. wednesday i watered the plants and hit them with 3/4 strength mg and diluted 3% h2o2 and finished it off with a little extra nitrogen.

i will be looking into getting some flat white paint for the inside of the box. also i found some super thrive at lowes. i was thinking of picking some of that up. i also wanted to possibly pick up something to replace the mg. something that i can pick up locally that is inexpensive. any suggestions?

i'll post some pics sometime this evening, my camera is not here at the moment. they are looking pretty good. them seem to like the dry then water cycle and the nutes seem to be working as well. still looking to improve my methods.

-shake

preferrebly something organic for the nutes!

-shake

why are you using h2o2? You don't need to use that unless you suspect your plant has some root issues going on. Like root rot or fungus or something.

i read that is beneficial to aerobic bacteria and kills anaerobic bacteria as well as introduced radical oxygen atoms which oxydize elements, making them more available for the roots to assimilate. just what i read. i figured what the hell.

i will have my camera back today and post pics tonight. they are looking pretty good. the tallest one is about 7" or so.

as far as LST goes, when is a good time to start? should i wait until the plants are mature first?

-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

i read that is beneficial to aerobic bacteria and kills anaerobic bacteria as well as introduced radical oxygen atoms which oxydize elements, making them more available for the roots to assimilate. just what i read. i figured what the hell.

i will have my camera back today and post pics tonight. they are looking pretty good. the tallest one is about 7" or so.

as far as LST goes, when is a good time to start? should i wait until the plants are mature first?

-shake

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Generally I do it sometime around/into week 3 if I have 4 nodes or more.

This is a great thread and even cheaper than the Rubbermaid Tub Growbox

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daihashi

Generally I do it sometime around/into week 3 if I have 4 nodes or more.

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i will get pics up today/tonight. i know i keep saying that but it's been hectic around here lately.

the plants are between 3" and 7 inches tall. they are very bushy. i'm not sure if the nodes are alternating yet, but it should be close.

should i not LST until i transplant to new pots? or is it okay/possible to transplant while LST'd?

Quote:

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This is a great thread and even cheaper than the Rubbermaid Tub Growbox

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if you can locate a box you can probably get away with spending like $20 to $50 depending on what you have on hand and what you have around you as far as stores go.

-box = free (well it came with the surround sound!)
-light fixtures/wiring = $14 (you can probably do this cheaper, but the -premade setup was best for me)
-pc fans = $16 (you can find these cheaper, i didn't want to wait)
-flat white spray paint = $2 (i used some free foil, shiny side out (this reflects the most light obviously) and haven't had any trouble with hot spots, although i am gonna get some flat white seeing as it's a little for reflective than the foil
-bulbs = $7 (you may want to use more, just use the fixtures and get the y-splitters for 2 bulbs per socket, i'm probably gonna try to see the difference)
-miracle grow = $4 ( i didn't know better because i didn't read before hand. i haven't had any problems with the mg but some say they have. i am gonna be switching to organic, which you can find pretty cheap)
-thermometer/hydrometer = $7

a lot of people didn't and still don't like it because it's in cardboard, but it works really well considering what it is. frankenstein basically. i'll keep upgrading it as needed for best results.

-shake

Damn Shake your at about the same place as me on my grow. The plants are looking good. Keep up the great posts and thanks for the feedback on my log.

Why do you worry about the nodes alternating?

thanks joyrider. i appreciate the feedback. i'm trying to get this moving along. i'm looking into lst but think i need to transplant first. i am still in the learning phase of that. i swear i'm gonna get some pictures if i remember to get my damn camera!

i think when the nodes start to alternate that is considered a mature plant.

what's good everyone? i finally got my camera back and have photos as promised. i watered the plants on the 17th.

the color seems to be okay but the plants themselves seem dry. i can also see growth towards the stem at the nodes.

i was bending them a little trying to get an idea about LST. they bent over fine. i didn't actually tie them down. is it hard to transplant when LSTing? or do you not start until you are in the final size pot? the reason i ask is because if i bend the plants over they pretty much are at the edge of the pot and there isn't much space to circle them around.

them seem to be doing prety well. i think i might put them into flower pretty soon. being a first-timer it's hard to make all these decisions especially when it comes to making decisions that you have no clue about the outcome of. this has been a pretty good learning experience. i can't wait to get a proper setup and learn the ways for the force, like the jedi that came before me.

feedback, comments and criticism are welcome!

-shake

edit: pic 1-5 of little (hopefully) girls 1-5.

i'm trying to make up for lost time so here ya go.

-shake

let's try this on mo gin!

pic 1 - prospective girl number 6

pic 2-5 - garden shots and the toilet paper in the last one is for reference.

-shake

lookin good brotha keep up the good work man. and hell yea you and yur bro go for the bigger grow room lol i did. peace love and get high

Shake! They are lookin' real nice! Are you using any form of fertilizer other than miracle gro?
How big are you thinking of getting them before switching to 12/12?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigsmoke07

lookin good brotha keep up the good work man. and hell yea you and yur bro go for the bigger grow room lol i did. peace love and get high

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thanks bigsmoke. you inspired me! we are just gonna run a 600w digital ballast HPS right now. but it should be nice. a couple of DWC or or e & f. a couple of different reservoirs (for different strains). either SOG or perpetual SOG. still formulating the master plan. about a month or so.

Quote:

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Shake! They are lookin' real nice! Are you using any form of fertilizer other than miracle gro?
How big are you thinking of getting them before switching to 12/12?

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joyrider, only miracle grow right now. i think i need to re-pot (probably tomorrow) and will get some flower nutes and some super thrive maybe. i still can't decide if i want to LST them. don't i need to start at least 10 days before flower? if i don't LST then i'll probably put them in flower tomorrow of the next day. i'll be going out of town for at least 30 days on tuesday, so my brother will be finishing up. i've got to give him a crash course!

-shake

Good idea on the 600w. Thats what i got and i love it :) even with a used bulb over a year old its still making my plants get thick! You're plants look like they could use more veg time before flowering, i just put 2 clones under my 600w running 12/12 and their just a hair bigger than yours, except their in hydro! I really wanted to wait until they were bigger but I don't even have a clue how big they'll get with the drip/dwc system. Besides, the bubble cloner was only 3 or 4 inches deep and the roots were binding up, had to put them somewhere :) So flowering was my only option hehe

You'll need a good fan to exhaust you're grow room/tent when you go big with the 600w. check out my pics of the hydro setup, their poor quality but it'll give you an idea what i'm up to. peace

good lookin turbo! then i'll transplant tomorow. i'll be going out of town for at least a month or so....so my brother will be taking them over. hopefully all goes well.

-shake

Greetings 'Shake! Found your thread and read the whole thing tonite. I can't believe you did all that in a cardboard box. Hope your brother doesn't kill your babies. Hide the fertilizer. :) edit: IMO I'd veg them till you get back and give him bottled water.

(Hijack In Progress) I am a big Bob Ross fan, never occurred to me he was a stoner. Is that a real photo? Did you know Bob? Man I would LOVE to have that picture. Please answer.

good luck

Lola

sweet dude i wish i could afford more light but im happy with my 400w hopefully it will produce some good buds for me. in the mean time peace love and get high

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LolaGal

Greetings 'Shake! Found your thread and read the whole thing tonite. I can't believe you did all that in a cardboard box. Hope your brother doesn't kill your babies. Hide the fertilizer. :) edit: IMO I'd veg them till you get back and give him bottled water.

(Hijack In Progress) I am a big Bob Ross fan, never occurred to me he was a stoner. Is that a real photo? Did you know Bob? Man I would LOVE to have that picture. Please answer.

good luck

Lola

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just goolge bob ross!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigsmoke07

sweet dude i wish i could afford more light but im happy with my 400w hopefully it will produce some good buds for me. in the mean time peace love and get high

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i'm sure you will. i'm interested to see the actual difference you get!

ok. so here is an update. i watered w/nutes yesterday. the plants are already pretty dry so i guess it's time to transplant. i am going to an 8" pot. i'm sure stinky (if she even reads this) will get mad at me, so i'm sorry. i also got some perlite. while out i also picked up some superthrive and some super bloom (no relation i don't think). i'll have pics and details in a bit. thanks to all those who follow along.

-shake

yea dude so far my biggest prob is keeping the temps below 90 i got my window open all day and the lowest its gotten was right now which its like at 87 but the plants are looking like they love the light

i bet they do. just be careful. i've read that at ~88 photosynthesis shuts off. what kind of reflector do you have running?

-shake