yeah i do hydro (ebb/flow) with straight CFLs all the way through veg and flower. works for me. glad to hear your littluns are doing well!
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yeah i do hydro (ebb/flow) with straight CFLs all the way through veg and flower. works for me. glad to hear your littluns are doing well!
GG84, thanks for stoppin by. I am definitely looking into some sort of hydro for the next grow. I am pretty positive I am going to make a clone bubbler so I can attempt to keep a consistent SOG going.
Ladies are looking great. I got my yeast today so I set up a little trial CO2 generator. We'll see how it works out.
I just wanted to post some pics. They are growing so quickly now! 3rd and 4th set of true leaves coming out. They are staying nice and short also, which I am assuming is from adequate light. This is definitely key for my grow to reduce stretch so that I can take advantage of the low head room.
Alright the pics are as follows:
1. Big girl close up
2. The runt next to the CO2 bottle
3. The other big girl, about a day behind
4. Good shot of the big girl, she is leaning because of the light, I turned her and she'll head back by morning
5. The full room. Biggest girl, front left, 2nd place, back middle, runt and CO2 bottle from right.
Enjoy! Let me know if anyone sees anything going in the wrong direction... Much appreciated.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...-big-1-dos.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...re806-runt.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...e805-big-2.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...e804-big-1.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...re803-room.jpg
damn, these ladies are growing crazy everyday. Even the runt is growing. The biggest of the plants (lets pray she is a female) is showing huge growth everytime I look. I have trouble keeping her away from the lights! I love the fact that they are using all that light and really producing now.
I think today is watering day! Should be fun!
I love these ladies!
Peace always,
:smokin:
good to hear about the vigorous growth! hope that biggun is a girl!
Hey whats up GG84? Thanks for stopping by again!! Definitely praying for girls ... as everyone on this site is haha.
I am about to go shopping for my clone bubbler supplies to make sure I have that all set up so I can cut some clones in a week or two. I was thinking about a few changes and/or additions, so tell me what you think:
1) Turn the current box into a permanent flowering box
2) Build a half sized clone/veg room.
3) Run a constant SOG with harvests every 2 weeks or so.
4) Move to DSW hydro.
Ambitious? I'd say so.
I am going to start with the hydro clone bubbler and a new clone box and then we can move on from there.
I'll post more details later when I am feeling up to it. Right now I'm going to water and snap some pics!
Peace all
:smokin:
righteous! i actually just made a bubble cloner the other day. but i made the mistake of buying the cheapest air pump from wal-mart. had to go back and trade up for the bigger one. now i'm pleased. if you get a chance, buy a nice thick BLACK container (keeps the duct tape fiasco at bay). another lesson learned for me. the one clone i took and put into the bubbler, i don't expect to live. took it from a plant thats 40 days into flower! hope it all works out for ya man.
hey GG84, I had a couple of questions (or anyone else watching for that matter). I am a virgin to hydro so I'd be interested to know what you use for nutes? I was going to use the suggestion of superthrive and thrivealive B-1 for the clones, but I don't really know what is best for normal vegging and flowering. I kinda wanted to get it all at once, so let me know. Also, how many clones do you cut at a time? just one? Have you taken clones from a vegging mother?
Sorry the question assault, I am just dying for knowledge on this. I have checked out a bunch of threads, but would like to hear what people have used and how things turned out.
Thanks!
:smokin:
up too late and found your thread. im hooked, i cant wait to see what happens next, maybe its just the kush talking.
i love the enthusiasm. after so many runs, run after run after run...i think i lost that feeling you have when you look at your girls.
im about ready to toss the all 1000hps and make myself a little box room with some cfls...although my wife would leave due to insufficient funds...hhheeyyy!
topping- i top as soon as i have 4 usable nodes, that splits your top bud into 4 top buds
clones and mothering- ive made lots of clones, when my clone guy was out of business, but did it by not topping and over vegging a little and then cut a few inches off the top to make one clone and removing all branches from the bottom up to the top 4, and using them to make about 4-5 more. this way i was able to get 5-6 per plant and still able to flower that plant a few days later. i did this 2 or 3 times with no adverse effects to my yield. i would not do it more then that as a clone from a clone from a clone ... will degrade the genetics. i had no room for a mother room which is the right way to do it. clones are for sale everywhere now so now i just pay the $10.
watering- i teach a lot of my friends and thats the hardest thing for a noob, not to do anything. its funny because the whole time youre talking about overwatering and not knowing when to water, im thinking just pick it up, get used to the way they feel, then youll know when they feel light, and then you say the same thing later on. good stuff.
very nice work and keep the passion
ps- you think you stare at them a lot now just wait til youre 5 days from harvest.
well said icbh707. as far as the nutes go with hydroponics, i'd suggest botanicare or fox farm. both have good hydro nutes and both offer veg and flower nutes. i'd get the superthrive for cloning too. i have a four plant ebb/flow table and four site cloner, so in a perfect world i'd take one clone every 2-3 weeks and have four clones at seperate growth stages and four mature plants at different stages of flowering. <--did that make sense?
hey icbh707 and GG84, thanks for stopping by again, or for the first time in the case of icbh707.
GG84 - Good info on the cloning and hydro bins, I will definitely look into fox farm and botanicare for my clone box.
icbh707 - I'm glad you can enjoy my enthusiasm. I feel like I look at them so much everyday I know everything about them. Could you explain your topping a bit more? I'd appreciate the info.
A little update for what's going on. These babies are growing up strong. The biggest one is absolutely huge and the second one isn't doing bad either. Even the runt has been growing at a pretty steady rate (granted it is at least a week behind). I'll post some pics tonight so people can see; it's been 6 days since the last ones, so I'm sure you will see a large difference.
A bought some of the supplies for my clone bubbler. Pump, airstones, tubing, bin, sealant, pH testing supplies, etc. I put some of the air stones in and created holes for the tubes then seals the tubes in. I'll test it out tomorrow, but either way I am excited. Tomorrow I'll order some Superthrive and ThriveAlive so I'll have that stuff when I'm ready. Once I have it all built I'll take some pics for everyone to enjoy.
I'll post the small issues I am having when I post the pics.
Keep safe everyone,
:smokin:
It's about time fore a picture update to :D
Hey bigworm - you called it, here are the pics.
Issues: The second lady is very short and stout and the leaves are kinda of dragging/drooping on the ground. I am thinking I overwatered her? Or maybe she got some sort of water lock problem because I realized today my water was kinda of high pH (7.4). I don't really know much about that. The biggest one is huge and growing upwards rather properly.
I actually raised the light by the 2nd place one to encourage her to stretch up a bit, but no dice yet. She seems to be growing at a slower rate also.
Alright the pics are as follows:
1) the whole box, big lady in back, 2nd place in front left, runt in front right, Co2 in the middle
2) the biggest lady
3) the biggest lady minus the light above her
4) 2nd place lady
5) 2nd place lady blurry close up
6) the runt (and actually a 4th one came up randomly so I put it in that pot, I figure I will just see what happens with those ladies.
Let me know what you think about the 2nd place one, it's possible I'm just paranoid.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...ure860-all.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...-big-lady1.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...1-no-light.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...-big-lady2.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...2-close-up.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...re865-runt.jpg
secretgarden, nice looking plants! hope there all ladies! im doing an indoor grow right now and just started flowering, i was wondering if u could help me out with your c02 creation? could u explain your method and how to create a ghetto c02 tank? thanks i appreciate it a lot...i jus started a thread on my new grow, check out how ghetto my setup is!! bunch of random cfl's and then the 1000w hps, its prettty funny looking. http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...-new-grow.html
any info on that c02 setup would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
hey blazed, thanks for stopping by. I'd love to explain my little CO2 machine but I have to remind you, it is super ghetto.
It is actually really simple. All you need is the following:
A bottle with a top
Water
Sugar
Live Yeast
Put warm water in the bottle, add some sugar and shake it so that it dissolves. Add the live yeast, shake again. Cut a little hole in the cap of the bottle to let the CO2 out. Should take an hour or two to fully activate, but you will see bubbles as long as it is active. I shake occasionally to reactivate and when I cover the hole I can feel the pressure of it trying to escape. The yeast eats the sugar water and gives off alcohol and CO2. I've heard you can get rid of the alcohol and put in fresh sugar solution and keep the yeast alive, but I haven't figured out how yet. My bottles last about a week each and yeast costs next to nothing, so it's not a big deal to just restart the whole thing. I hope that helps. It's ghetto, but I think it is actually working.
Peace all,
:smokin:
nice little co2 setup. i think there's some posts on here about how to keep the yeast alive. hope the girls are doing well.
whats up everyone...
I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. I was looking at my set up, and it seems to me that the #1 lady was probably growing a little better because it had the other light at its side promoting more growth versus 2nd place lady only had the one on top the whole time. I switched their placements to see if there is a real difference.
These ladies are growing like crazy. They all have secondary growth (i made that up) coming from in between each node, so I imagine that is a good sign. Being near 100% indica (at least that's what they say), they are staying low and bushy with those wide leaves as advertised, so that's a good thing.
I was actually wondering if anyone out there had any experience with cloning pure indicas that are short and stocky?? I don't know if stinky is out there watching this, but maybe you have some advice on this? It just seems like every clone thing I see is about sativas or crosses, or something that has stretched a bit, making it easier to choose nice clones. Maybe I'm just bitching too much.
One last thing: Today I came and noticed that my room actually smelled a bit. Not like burnt herb, but more like a fresh green plant smell I suppose with a hint of greenery? Hard to describe, I'm sure most growers understand. I went and got some air fresheners and odor killers and put them by the exhaust fan, so hopefully that helps out. I suppose at some point I'll have to figure out some sort of carbon scrubber. Uggg.
Bubble cloner is built and runs well. I ordered my SuperThrive and ThriveAlive today, so hopefully I'll have that by the time I want to clone! I am very excited to say the least haha.
It is day 18 since they popped I believe. Any idea when I can start cloning or do I need to wait until maturity? I figure I'll go another 14 days or so before I flip the lights, but of course we will have to see!!
Peace all,
:smokin:
I have a new lady friend and she is coming over tomorrow for the first time ... the grow is in the closet BUT at night the light is obvious and of course the noise from the fan ... my question is:
If I shut the grow down for 3-9 hours (obviously depending on how things go) it won't force flowering, right? I assume not. It would be back on 24/0 in 9 hrs max, but is it stressing them to do that?
Kinda silly, i know, but what can I say, I love my ladies ;)
Thanks for the help,
:smokin:
yeah it'll stress them but it shouldn't be that bad. keep it to a minimum though. and be checking for nanners after the temporary shut down is said and done. good to hear about the good growth and the bubble cloner completion, keep up the good work. :jointsmile:
Hey secret.....
the plants look great......How old are they in the 10.28 pics? another thing...i know you like the homemaid co2 but i really dont think the CFL are strong enough to utilize the CO2 but if you think it makes a difference keep on it bro.....cant wait to see how this log turns out!
GG84 - Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I can keep the shut down to a minimum.
Killa - Thanks for stopping in! In the 10.28 pics the biggest one is 17 days, the second one is 16 days and the runt is at least a week behind, if not more since the seed membrane didn't come off for a while. These are all days since it broke the soil.
A note on the homemade CO2. I'm sure it's not putting out any sort of huge amount of CO2 and the difference might be negligible (i wish I had the time and space to do a full control test) BUT I have read that plants do better in higher temps with extra CO2. When I first started it was still pretty warm here so I figured what the hell, maybe CO2 will encourage growth at higher temps. Now during the day the box is about 82 and at night about 78, so I think I'm okay.
I know the CFLs aren't that strong, but I have something around 4850 lumen/sq ft which I thought was pretty decent coverage. Killa, could you explain why you don't think the CO2 would have an effect? I appreciate the input.
Time for work.
Peace all,
:smokin:
secretgarden,
thanks for the tutorial, really appreciate it...im gonna try it out after i get my hands on some yeast!!! and yea ive had some stretch to my plants but im not too worried i got plenty of room for these ladies to spread out....thanks for checking out my grow, im def gonna be watching this one!!
looking good! maybe a little overwater on #2, leaves look ribbed and curled down at the tips, should go away in a few days if you dry it out a bit.
looks to me like you have about 7 nodes on #1-2 with the bottom nodes having the longest branches, @1in long? now, i use 600hps to veg not cfl so its hard for me to know if that cloning method i was telling you about would work and how long it would take to get them to the point where you could take the cuttings. ok, lets say i want to flower when my girls are about 12in. (w/ 600hps from 4" clone, @2 weeks for sativa and 3 weeks for indica) i would over veg for a few days to a week until they were @ 15" and this should grow those branches at the bottom nodes from @ 2-3" to 3-4" which will be much easer to make clones out of. then i would cut the main stock back to whichever node was at the 12" mark, use the top 3" as a cutting, then i would count down 4 nodes and keep those. this should leave me with maybe 3-4 or so branches at the bottom of the plant that should be @ 3-4" long. i would cut those off as close to the main stock as i could and clone them. i would then veg the plants for a few more days until they recover from the shock and i could see new growth and then i would flower them.
this is for big plants under lots of light, soooo....
if you do want to top, dont want to mother, and maybe just get a few cuttings, i would top now by removing the newest node, which right now is just the little nub at the top of the plant. at the point youre at now that should leave you with about 7 nodes, that after topping, should all start growing taller together trying to become the new main stock. hopefully in a week or 2 your bottom 1" branches will be 4-3" long and you could take 1-2 cuttings off each plant. then finish with more veg time until they recover, and then go to flower.
are you looking at me like this now? :wtf:
ps. i use GH nutes and love em. just de-boned my first light today, looks like im getting about 1.1# per 1000. bubba kush, turned purp, powder coated, @3 week veg, 8 week finish, topped, 9 per light, no co2.
pps. I WOULD NOT TURN OFF FOR LESS THAN 6 HRS IF YOU HAVE BEEN RUNNING 24HRS. use a flor or a flash light or something to keep light on them. you need to try to keep killing that hormone that causes them to flower. light is the only thing that kills it. even if you turn it on after youve done your business and shes in the shower. any little bit of light will help.
yeh, those are nice healthy plants, Bub! I'm gonna keep look here.
Shovel - Good to see you here! I see you all over the forum, so I'm glad to see you checking out my log.
Blazed - Glad I could be of help. I can't vouch for huge increase in yields, but I figure every little bit helps, right? I'll be watching yours.
icbh707 - I agree with the idea of over-water on plant #2. I sort of forgot that big#1 and lady#2 are different in size (and a day in age) so when I watered them on the same schedule, I probably was over-watering lady#2 by a little ... I imagine it adds up after a few waters. Also, I'm not going to lie, the first time I read your post through, I definitely gave that exact look (:wtf:). But after I read it again, a little slower, it actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not going to lie, I have a lot of questions for you, and I imagine I will have more as time goes on, so here's a start (if you don't mind):
1) It sounds like you have cloned/topped high percentage indicas. How do you feel about topping them? Does the yield compare or does it cause problems? For some reason I had the impression indicas didn't always do as well if topped? (I can't source that)
2) Do you find it difficult when cloning a short bushy indica, or just more of a delicate process? I am nervous if you can't tell.
3) Do you use the bottom 3-4 branches (nodes) for your main clones? or ones higher up? I figure the lowest ones will be biggest, but I don't know if bigger is always better.
I'll get more to you later, especially when it actually comes time to cut my babies up. Any help now would be highly appreciated!
Thanks for checking things out everyone. I will definitely try to keep the shut-down to a minimum tonight. But lets say worst case scenario, the project is shut down for 12 hours (worst case possible), if I go back to 24/0, will it just start "flowering" (I know its not actually flowering perse) and then take some time to revert back to veg or will I really have f-ed things up? Sorry I'm so anal. I know icbh707 said no more then 6 hours, so maybe ill try to throw a little light in there to atleast keep that hormone out of there (I imagine complete darkness is the killer).
Peace all!
:smokin:
What ever happens under the circumstances beyond our control is 'lady luck'. Sometimes for all our attention and energies strange (bad) things happen. The other times, for all our faults and mistakes things work out better than they should have. So, what we do is wait and see how it goes.
Bon Chance!
you just dont get as many clones out of the indica in the same amount of time. keep the top 4 nodes then use any lower branches that are big enough to make into clones. this also gives more space at the bottom which is nice for a few reasons.
if i did any more than 9 per light i would not top. topping with 9 per 1000 i can cover the light footprint a little better and by splitting my top bud into 4 smaller tops it lowers my chance of mold (kush loves to mold). no increase in yield as far as i can tell just functional. some of the smaller ones i dont top end up about the same size as the ones i do.
they could go to flower with 8hrs of dark or 10 but 12 will for sure do it. they could just be set back a few days by this or not. it will stress them but its hard to say what effects that stress will have on them. they will continue to veg once the light goes back.
you can grow a plant to finish, change the lighting back to veg, add grow nutes and after a while branches will start growing out of the buds.
I hear that shov, usually when I leave things alone, they tend to do the best. I just like to increase my chances of "lady luck" by avoiding the avoidable. But you are right, sometimes trying to avoid all those problems only makes things worse.
Thanks for the words of wisdom from a wise man!
Peace,
:smokin:
yay! veteran helpers! one thing i didn't see mentioned though, the lower branches are best for cloning because they have the highest concentration of hormones required for rooting (just thought i'd throw that out there). on a completely off-topic note, i got two opium strain clones today and i will be keeping an eye on them. seen pics on here of main colas big as a carton of newports!
Just read over your Grow Log. NICE! Seems like your "Ghetto" setup is working. I thought my Grow Space was ghetto but u got my Topped :D:D Anyways looks like you got things going good. I hope to see good results in the Future. I myself am growing with CFL's and i got to say I like them =DD Anways You Can check out my Log for any Advice My grow seems to be similar to yours. Anyways the link is in the Signature. My Plants ar about 4weeks Into VEG.
Best of luck to you man. Keep it the Grow!-
-Swish
icbh707 - Thanks for the info on the cloning. How many days into veg before you clone? Do I need to wait until they are technically "mature"? I am obviously nervous about cutting up my babies. I am still trying to decide if I should do just LST or if I should top. Either way I am going to need to keep my girls low and hopefully have them cover the whole area.
When I first started I thought I would throw these girls into flowering after 3 weeks or so, so that I could have some quick bud ready for Christmas, but now I am enjoying this so much that I think I am going to take my time and see what I can create.
GG84 -Good stuff about the cloning. What do you think about the questions above? Oh and I'd love to hear more about those opium strains, so let me know how they are!
Swisha - haha, I do have you beat, but us ghetto growers gotta stick together! You at least have a real case! It looks like yours is going pretty well, I will definitely keep an eye on it, so keep up the good work!
I am going to post a few pics in a second, even though I posted somewhat recently. I had to go in there and snap a few pics because I am going to post on the problems forum about lady#2. I know she isn't falling apart or anything, but I'd like to correct any issues I have before I cause any real damage, ya know? It's just strange, the other plants in the exact same environment are doing differently, so I just want to see what people think.
Peace all,
:smokin:
So these ladies are at about 20 days I think. 19 for the smaller and god only knows for the mini one. I think I may have been wrong with my timeline when I answered killa before. Anyways here are the pics:
1) The little runt
2) The big #1 lady
3) The curled leaf on 2nd place
4) Overall pic of 2nd place.
Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...little-one.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...876-lady-1.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...urled-leaf.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/o...-2nd-place.jpg
So I went in there today to snap a new avatar pic and I lifted up the big one to see if there were any root problems. Well it looks like there might be. There are roots attempting to come out each drainage hole. So what does that mean for me? I guess I have two options:
1) Expand the current pot by cutting out the bottom and putting it in a square pan
2) Re-pot in an entirely new pot.
I know it seems silly to think of just expanding the bottom, but the issue is that I am not sure if I actually have space for a new pot. My only option would be to move to a square pot that is taller I suppose. I have a limited foot print so I am kind of out of room. The issue with a new square pot is that I need specific dimensions to make sure it fits in the box properly, and that is why I went with the circle ones before.
Anyone use an online store to that has tons of different dimensions of pots?
Thanks!
Peace all,
-Secret
:smokin:
Ok, I topped the big one. I read up a lot about the strain and said fuck it and just did it. I knew if I kept thinking about it I'd only beat myself up about it, so I did it.
I hope it will come out nice!!
I hate hurting my ladies, I almost wanted to cry when I cut her haha.
Oh well, better in the end ... I hope.
Peace all,
:smokin:
Looks Great! Cant wait to see sum bud:rastasmoke:Quote:
Originally Posted by oSecretGardeno
secret couldn't find any online stores that didn't want an arm and a leg for their product. but i come bearing a picture that will make you hopeful! this is one of my side branches. main cola is about twice that size.
oh yeah and here's a pic of that opium strain.
Cannabis.com Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News
ium-pics-opium.jpg
GG84 - Good to hear from you again. I ended up getting them from bghydro.com because I had to get some other nutes from there anyways, and they had the size that i really needed (10"x10"). So hopefully they will be here sometime this week and I can repot. Oh and that opium strain: that looks like a large nugget. Almost the size of a carton! Is it yours? If so, enjoy!
The 2nd place girl still has curling leaves, although it is continuing to have new growth, just at a slower rate then the other ones. She should be getting pretty dry now, so I am starting to think it might not be over-watering. At this point I'm thinking it might be some sort of nute lock up due to the pH probs so hopefully I can work that out (pH problems explained below)
So the biggest girl has a couple leaves with some yellow spots on them now. Needless to say I spent the day researching and it is probably one of two things:
1) pH problems. I am pretty sure the last time I watered I watered with water that was like 7.8 or higher, which is not good. It turns out my tap water is just fine for the soil I'm using so I am just going to flush them all the next time I water (prob tomorrow, maybe tuesday?). If I am just using tap, can I theoretically put them in the shower and just run it for a while, or will that end up drowning them?
2) Could be a pest problem. I haven't seen any larvae or anything, but you never know. There was another user on the problems forum with very similar looking leaves, so I'll try some different things if the flush doesn't work.
Overall I'm happy with progress. The big lady is topped and so I am waiting to see how that goes. I really want to LST the other one but it is so damn short and bushy, I don't even know where to start haha.
As for cloning, I should have everything I need to start cloning this week. I am thinking I will cut clones next weekend, so the ladies will be almost 30 days old. Then I will let them recover for a few days and then start the flowering. So let's say we will shoot for flowering on maybe the 11th of Nov. I'd like to have them sexed before thanksgiving!
Keep safe all,
-secret
:smokin:
no the opium pic is from a grower on here. can't remember who... about the flush: i wouldn't put them in the shower. take the time to measure out the volume of soil you're using (approximate) in each planter. multiply this by 3 and you have the neccessary amount of h2o for leaching each individual planter. e.g.: 3L planter of soil needs 9L of water for a leach. doing this once a month flushes out build-ups of fertilizer salts and can help prevent many problems. that "pest problem" could be a nutrient issue caused by the improper pH you mentioned. improper pH causes nutrient uptake issues.
Looks good. I had similar problems. I stopped watering so much. Seems to be Lookin Good for you. Nice Bud gg84 Anyone Know how to change my thread from closet grow to Grow Log Section?
-Swisha
Keep it good work
hey guys,
ive been up to my elbows in bud and dirt. everythings cool now as over half the bud is dry and trimmed and all babies are in their 5gal pots and looking happy. i'll take a pic of the finished bud tonight...speaking of finished bud, very nice looking stuff you got there gg84. you are an artist.
congrats on the top secretgarden! you did it! how many nodes do you have? 7? you might want to think about removing the leaves that hang in the dirt. if you lift those leaves in your next pics so we can see the size of those branches i'll have a little better idea of when you could take some cuttings. now that you topped those lower guys will start to take off. lst will be very hard to do with those short stocky guys. i would top and then use the scrog to cover every inch of that box.
the ph sounds very high. mine comes out of the tap at about 7.3 and 2ml/gal of ph/down usually is just right to bring it down to 6.0. what nutes are you using?
oh crap, gotta go, they are looking good though, keep up the good work.
a little info on scrog and 40/60
CannaStats - The ScrOG Technique
scroghttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient - Google Search