Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Perfectly.
:abduct:
'Zard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Perfectly.
:abduct:
'Zard
I put one fog unit in my 29 gal, 16" tall container that I intend to use for my budding res. As I feared, the fog would not rise to the top. It would only rise about an inch or 2 above the surface of the water, even after 90 minutes. Dad gummit. So I put in another fogger. Same thing, with perhaps the level 1/2 inch higher and a slightly denser fog, but barely any noticeable difference. I thought that maybe if they run a long time they will eventually fill up a big container. No such luck. I turned off the foggers to see how long it takes for the fog do dissipate, or disappear, and it was much faster than I expected. In this tub the fog was gone in about 15 seconds. That's why the container will never fill to the top.
The fog made it to the top of an 8 gallon container but it wasn't very dense at the top. Seeing the very small amount of change from doubling the output, I'm certain that the fog won't rise to the top, even with a 3 head unit, and maybe not even with a 6 or 10 head unit.
So I walked a couple feet and noticed how violently the fog swirled around in the container from the slight change in air flow, and good size wisps made it to the top. It was then it struck me that a fan is going to be the key if I don't want to buy a 20-head unit. I put a short hose over the top and gently blew through the other end, and wallah - the tub filled with fog. I also tested if the action from an air stone would circulate the fog enough, but there was barely any change.
So now I'm either going to make a separate pumping machine like the Nutramist ones, or cut a hole in the middle of the lid and have a small computer fan blow straight down. The pumping machine would solve the heat issue, but I'm not real worried about that after testing in a bigger reservoir. The water temp did not fluctuate from 84.5 degrees, even when using 2 units.
So, the light. Should I just put a bit of black silicon tape over the red LED, or not worry about it affecting the roots? Another issue solved with a pumping machine.
The 2nd photo is after 1/2 hr, and the 3rd is using 2 foggers, after the few seconds it took for my camera to turn on after blowing through the tube. The fog was actually a little thicker near the top when I blew.
Yeah, those floats from mainlandmart are about $10 plus shipping. I know I'm going to order more fogging stuff so I may consider it, but shhhh, my wife told me not to spend any more money for awhile. And you know, that styrofoam is free.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
And for the disks, I'm using these from nutramist. I know the ones at fogponics are cheaper (price going up soon), but the nutramist ones are the only ones I can find that say something like: Our aeroponic foggers offer the exclusive benefit of having teflon coated ultrasonic transducers, specifically designed for use with dissolved nutrient solutions, so they help prevent salt buildup which causes premature failure. Do you know if the fogponics disks are essentially the same thing as the nutramist ones? Both are teflon coated.
So true. I've noticed most designs have the root res fairly shallow and spread out, but that won't work for what I'm trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
I hope you just happened to get a lemon. I've never heard of the sensor failing on any brand before. That's unfortunate they wouldn't replace it. Mine have been working great so far. I've pulled them out a few times to see if they shut off properly. So far so good. And they don't get much cheaper than $24.95 that I can find, even on Ebay.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadSativa
That's good info about the guys finger. Ouch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Have you tried setting a 3"netpot upside down over the emitter to protect the roots?
Cheap n easy
WZ
I thought about that, but roots grow through net pots. I'm thinking something like tupperware or yogurt container upside down over the fogger. It would have to be just barely above the water, but then seems like roots would still get to it. Hmmm, maybe if it was real wide the roots would have to grow a long ways to get around it, or I know, I'll make a pumping machine like the Nutramist ones.
Aloha, OYQuote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I've seen the "fog fountain" units for living room displays.
Looks like the fog spills over the edge for the same reason it won't fill a tall tub,
gravity.
Perhaps you can avoid root troubles by generating the mist in a smaller container, and "spill" it into the root tub.
Then, as it condenses, pump it back up.
Food for thought?
Best
Zard
hmmm, maybe.
I??m leaning toward having 2 separate pumping units. I built one to test a few things. This is not my dream pumper by any means, and the rules of the subproject stated that I must use materials and tools that I already had laying around. This is only for testing purposes, and my real ones will be smaller, have no air leaks, and be more ??professional-looking?.
Unlike the Frappa and Nutramist, there is not a separate reservoir. My real ones will have separate reservoirs, and at least one of them will probably have quick connect fittings and an extra smaller reservoir for foliar feeding. The flexible hose makes it easy to direct the flow of fog wherever you want it, like into the foliage. Fog makes the best foliar feed because unlike misting, it penetrates all areas of the canopy. One nice thing about being self contained is you can easily move this around. It has a handle, and you can carry it from room to room. Take off the hose and set it in the middle of a grow for foliar feeding.
I thought I??d see how it ran without sealing the fittings, and was planning on having to do that later. However I can see no fog escaping from the leaks around the hose or pipe, or from under the lid, which I just sat loosely on the bucket. I??m guessing the fog decided to take the path of least resistance, which was through the biggest hole (the one in the hose).
I??ve ordered several of each of these:
Jenson variable AC adapter ?? 5.99
Voltage from 3 to 12 volts to vary the fan speed. 300 mAh will drive 2 fans. The replacement fan controller from Nutramist is $20.
Antec 80mm case fan ?? 6.99
The Nutramist replacement fans are 22 cfm and $20, This is 34 cfm, and the only small one I can find that has a 3 year warrantee.
Mini float valve ?? 10.08
This will keep the proper level in the fog pumper using gravity feed. Nutramist doesn??t offer a replacement float valve because they don??t want you building your own fog pumper.
This quickie fogger works great, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it filled up my 29 gal container in about 15 seconds. Notice the fine drops it deposited on my arm hairs after 15 seconds. Imagine this on root hairs. It??s weird that the dry fog makes moisture collect on my hairs but not my hand. I??m still trying to decide if I should use 2 foggers like in this test, or if I should get the 3-head unit for my flowering res. I guess I need more testing on actual roots to see how long it takes to moisten them, and how long they stay moist after the fog pump is turned off.
For this test fogger I??m using a 120V computer fan from Radio Shack, which I think was about $15. I have no speed/voltage controller, but the flow seems fine and I see no need to reduce it. The Styrofoam for the float and the laundry detergent bucket are free, and the ABS pipe and 1? tubing are less than $5. So for $70 I??ve got something that works about as well as the $370 Nutramist pumper. For $25 more I could add a 3rd fog head and have the same or better output. I??ll be happy to answer any questions on construction, but for now I??ll let the pictures do the rest of the talking.
...
Thanks for this, OY:thumbsup:
I can't help but think that the world is, indeed, a magical dimension.
I mean, people are growing weed, in clouds!
How :cool::cool::cool: is that?!
Amazedly,
Weeze
That's a pretty good way of putting it. Growing in clouds. That's cool, I like it. How is it you ask? Well clouds are collections of moisture, which roots love and need of course. I think you've given me an idea for the title of my fogging log.
If anyone is interested in solubility issues, I emailed Dutch Master and quickly got an answer. They make the best affordable nutrients and I really wanted to use them when I get my foggers set up.
Thank you for your enquiry regarding Dutch Master. In answer to your
response the Dutch Master GOLD series is 100% soluble and is in fact the
nutrient of choice for growers in Aeroponic systems due to the purity of
ingredients used. All Dutch Master products are made using British
Pharmaceutical ingredients or better to ensure purity of the highest
level. In addition all Dutch Master products pass through a 0.5 micron
mesh final filter at the bottling stage to ensure the ultimate in
purity. I am sure that you are going to be amazed at what GOLD can do
for your garden! I hope this helps!
I got the ac adapters and fans today, but haven't had a chance to hook them up yet. Does anyone know how to hook up 3 fan wires to 2 wires supplying voltage? I have a white, black and red from the fan. On the connector the white is marked "2510", the black is marked with an arrow and "17", and the red is marked "KSP". It's been what?, 30 years since my electronics class, but I don't remember anything that might help. I well I bought extras, so I guess I could blow one up. So far I am very happy with thenerds.net. Good prices, good selection, fast shipping.
Aloha OY
Glad you liked it, it's yours.
(forgot to copyright it.:D)
You said;
"Does anyone know how to hook up 3 fan wires to 2 wires supplying voltage? I have a white, black and red from the fan. "
I usually use the red and black though it does depend on the manufacurer, (Standards arent'):)
The third wire is usually a speed sensor.
Won't hurt anything to cut all three and touch two at a time
to your 12V supply until it spins the way you want.
Best
WZ
"I think you've given me an idea for the title of my fogging log."
Sure beats, All Fogged-up. :D
Weeze.
You were right Weeze, black and red. The ac converter runs 2 fans fine, but they do slow slightly from when just one is hooked up.
A standard that was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Will wonders never cease?:D
If slower speed works for you, I saw an idea 'round here that tickled me.
Guy had 1 12V supply and 2 fans.
Didn't need high CFM so he wired them in series.
Got 6V each at about half the current.
Makes the wallwart run cooler too.
Just my 40% of a nickle.
Weeze
Howzit? Ya ol' acorn snuffler.:)
Where exactly is your new fogging log?:D
Or, is all this time dilation just makin' it seem like weeks?
Not that I'm all that unhappy with the DWC.
But...
You know how much I love to,:tin foil hat::detective1::weedpoke:.
My last grow is winding-up in a couple weeks.
Got about 2 sq. ft. to futz around with.
Have added a gallon jug with a hose attached as an automagic "top-off"
Mounted the jug upside down on the wall so the hose ends where I want my water level in the bucket.
Works a treat!:cool:
Now I just look at the jug as a quick check on transpiration.
Since the water level is constant, I won't need a float.
Can attach the fogger in the corner of a tub and screen it from roots.
Of course, I'm waiting for someone else, (that would be you), to brave the slings and arrows of innovation for me.;)
I can do a lot of things whole-assed, but waiting is not one of them.
Hell, if I had any patience, I'd have a white coat and a 6 figure income.;)
Aloha nui
Weeze (Still rooting about on the forest floor)
Well I wouldn't wait around on me for very long. It is going to happen for me, but not in the next few days. I am slowly acquiring everything I need for my 3rd grow room remodel, which will include fogging. I've got a lot of commitments otherwise as well. I wish I had a time machine.
Got pictures of your top off contraption?
To a theater near you.
Unabashed, uncensored, exclusive photos!
Now, where the hell did I put that round tuit?
Cereally it's Grrreeaate!:D
Snaps soon, still ironing out da bugs.
WZ
Intense shit...Intrigued I be. I am diggin the growing in the clouds concept...Ill be watching you 2:greenthumb:
whiskeytango
The man wants pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Then pictures he shall have.
It's quite simple really.
The pipe sits on the bottom for support.
I cut a notch where I want my water level.
Any size container will do. I chose this size so an air leak won't cause an overflow of my 5 gal. bucket
Keep it as close to the top of the bucket as you can.
Don't want to crowd the girls.
And if you keep it short, a failure of the quick disconnect won't dump enough water raise the level much.
Previously had 1/4" clear plastic tube running up the side of the bucket for checking water level.
But, it rapidly gets nasty and hard to read, (I'm frikkin' old.:))
This tells me at a glance, how much transpiration/evaporation is happening.
That's a good indicator for plant health and needs.
That, and I won't need to float the mister.:)
Plan to attach a second pipe that runs to the bottom and Ls out the side near the top. That should make nute change a breeze.
I'll pump out the old, and, with the aid of second disconnect fitting and a funnel, just pour in the new.
Then plug in a bubba-jug and go find something to do with the spare time I now have.;)
Hey!
New acronym; GITC.
Come in handy for confusing noobs:D
Won't be long before I'm "Growing In The Clouds" too.
Thanks Opie
Weezard
Thanks Weeze, looking forward to seeing it up and going with plants and all.
There was an odd post on the revenge of the leds thread that sent me a wiki-ing, and I found this;Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
"Cannabis was also known to the ancient Assyrians, who discovered its psychoactive properties through the Aryans.[26] Using it in some religious ceremonies, they called it qunubu (meaning "way to produce smoke"), a probable origin of the modern word 'Cannabis'.[27] Cannabis was also introduced by the Aryans to the Scythians and Thracians/Dacians, whose shamans (the kapnobatai????those who walk on smoke/clouds?) burned cannabis flowers to induce a state of trance."
Qunubu, who knew?!
So, now ya know.:)
Aloha,
Weeze
i have been reading this post, and i think i might have a solution, both for the fogger heat problem and the what fogger to get for the best money problem. what if you had, say, a 5 gallon bucket as a dedicated reservoir with your fogger and your nutrient solution in it, connected at the top of the bucket with say, 1" pvc, to the container that has your plants? you wouldn't have to top off the res that often, and it would eliminate the heat problem. i have also run across this 5-head ultrasonic fogger for around 100 bucks. the droplets are guaranteed <5 microns, the page says it doesn't clog as long as the nutrients are 100% water soluble, and it is much cheaper than a nutramist fogger. i would think 5 heads would produce plenty of nutreinty fog. it even comes with a plastic floaty ring to keep it submerged in the correct depth of water. anyway, here is a link.
Alpine FG201R Super Power Pond Fogger includes floating ring - Lawn & Garden - GrabCart Compare and Buy Home & Garden Products
hope it helps! :jointsmile:
Aloha, Opie,
Any progress?
Weeze
hi there....
i put a 90ml single outlet fogger at the end of my 20L nft tray(where the water returns back to the resevoire...
i ran this fogger from week two of veg... i ran it for 24 hrs for one week and the roots exploded. seriousely i have never seen root growth like it...
trouble was i didnt give the roots any time to breath. i was getting funny weird problems which at first associated with overwatering.... i removed the fogger but things didnt get any better. iv found out it was a micronutrient defficiency caused by the water company.
so... the fogger is back in the res
i have now chnaged to one miniut on and one miniut off....
i have added a 25mm water proof chipset cooling fan...it pulls the fog out of the res and blows it back into the res water.. this seems to condense the fog back into water and so there are no nute/water losses while still clearing the root zone in seconds. one miniut off one miniut on with a 4 second for fog fill and a 6 seconds empty time..
i havent got the time and money to do the research as i would like...
side by side comparison of feeding scheduals etc..
your systems sounds the nutts....
im going back over this post with a fine tooth comb..
peace out :rastasmoke:
u guys sed your having problems getting the auctual fog into your growing chambers? i wonder if u got, sayyyy a dual outlet air fish tank pump and sealed up the container were the fogger is with duct tape,drill a small hole into the fogger rez and had a 1/2 or 1 inch pipe plumbed into your grow chamber if it would be enough to propell the fog.i too have been thinking about trying out fog ponics but i have this weird fear that the rez will run outa water and that the fogger will get super hot and burn the house down....
This had been a great thread, I'm sorta glad it got bumped. I realized that I miss OpieYutts, he hasn't posted here in quite awhile.
The problem with using pond foggers is the fog likes to lay on the water. On a system I built awhile back I used a 5 head pond fogger in a 5 gallon bucket, used a square pce of plastic inside to act as a splash shield. Put two 1 1/2" holes in the bucket lid, 1 for a hose out and the other with a fan blowing into the bucket. It works very well and the people using it are real happy, except for having to clean and or replace the transducer discs regularly. :(
There are some much better foggers out there, but not as inexpensive. :)
I gotta try to find Opie.
Here is a clone after one week.
DRIP IS DEAD! :thumbsup:
Make sure you have a spare unit (in case of unit or transformer burnout).
Opie I hope to see you back here soon.
My Idea was this. I got a 1 head fogger with a teflon coated disc and a float and I've been doing a bit of research.
Someone b4 mentioned using a 5 gal bucket. I am thinking a 3 gal bucket with a spout lid.
Attach a hose of some sort to the spout to direct where you want the fog to go to. and mount on the lid opposite side of the spout a small ac fan or 2 depending on how much airflow is needed.
I saw some buckets and lids with spout on a website for us plastics. and pretty inexpensive 3 gal bucket in black and black lid to fit with a spout. small ac fan or 2 from radioshack.
My Plan is this first for clones and after they root use the setup to foliar feed the ladies.
Reviving this discussion does present an opportunity to quiz oldmac or others who can point me in the right direction though.
Oldmac posted on page one:
The proposed schedule is Frapa fogger 10 mins on (@10min after the hour and 1/2 hr) every 30 mins. 24 hrs a day, don't want roots to dry out during dark period, even if they are not feeding.
Mister nozzles 3-5 seconds every half hour(on the hour and 1/2 hr) on photocell=only when lights are on. Photocell in cycle timer syncs with other timer, when lights come on.
So for example start at 7:00pm lights come on, first event is mister pump for 3-5sec. !0 mins later Frapa starts, runs 10mins and stops. 7:30 mister pump, 10 mins later etc etc.
OM?.this newb needs a little more explanation on the reasoning behind the timing of foggers and misters (or in my case??fogger and bubbler). In my uneducated imagination I thought that the fogger would be running all the time. However timed cycles with help with controlling heat generated by the fogger. (RH can be pretty low here). The fogger that I??ve chosen is a little one disc cheapo?.but the fog feels awful dry to me (don??t know if that makes it 5 micron or not)
Also from another thread that you??re involved in: What ratio of fogging to bubbling would you imagine to be appropriate to avoid the acclimation time when I move my clones down the line to the pre-veg bubbler. I would like to begin with a plan in mind. Beyond that all I can do is watch the root development and hope that I guess right from there.
Accepting all opinions,
HMR
I know this thread is almost 2 yrs old but this nutramist knock off is the $#!+. hey Opi Yutts if your still on this forum. do you think your unit will blow enough fog to fill a 3x3 tray?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts