Printable View
I totally understand. Scratch what I said about soft stems. I don't do hydro, But I thought that your stems stayed soft(relatively).
Anyway, I hope you don't spend too much time worried about this one, when you could be smoking and thinking on the next go round. I was very glad that I decided to flower despite growing concerns of "better" ways. On this go round, I have done a much more well planed LST job. But not as good LSTing as I will do next! Get it?
Nice looking grow Opie!:thumbsup:
I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see how it all turns out.
PC :smokin:
Well I thought I might as well toss in a couple photos of this set-up when I was just getting it going.
These clones were ignored for almost 2 weeks. During that time the dome kept most of the moisture in, which was too much. Of course you are supposed to let them breath at least twice per day. When I took off the dome I couldn??t hardly believe that they were in such good condition, except for the massive amount of mold and rot, which was picked out before the pictures. I checked the PH and it was 6.25. Just barely squeaking in at a level that might sustain the life of a weed plant (I like 5.5).
These clones were scarified, but this is not a good example of what scarification can do. You can kinda see the results on some of them, but nothing like if I had taken these cuttings from the proper places on the mother and had taken care of them during rooting. Notice the droop on some of them once in the system, due to not hardening them properly. I put baggies over all of them overnight just to be safe, and the perked right up the next day.
If you want to see the massive bubbles my new air pump was making before I put the lids on and the plants in, or just check out what's under the hood, or for some of you, the bonnet, go here: http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/141583-i-ve-got-proper-bubbles-once.html
It was because of Weedhound that I had to go buy a laser thermometer, and no I didn??t get a good deal on it. It all started with me lowering the light. I have always thought that if the plant doesn??t show signs of heat stress, then it??s not too hot. Well I have always been wrong according to Weedhound. Here??s what she has to say on the subject:
?the REAL key is this.....(shhhhh) when the leaf surface temps go over 80 degrees (usually at about 85 degrees room temp or so depending on ventilation, how close your light is etc..) the plants growth will slow down tremendously. Photosynthesis drops a HUGE amount (in fact almost to 0 if I remember correctly) when leaf surface temp exceeds 80
I lowered my light to about 16? from the plants after lights out one night. I kept watching the plants the next day to see if it looked like they were getting heat stressed, but I didn??t notice signs of any stress. The day after that I was looking at my plants and I realized that I hadn??t really noticed much growth over the past two days. Usually I can notice growth in half of a day, and I was expecting faster growth with the light closer, not slower growth. Not too much later I was reading that post of Weedhounds, and it suddenly dawned on me that I may have the very problem that she is talking about. I??ve never heard of it before, but I learn new things all the time that are so basic and simple, that I should have known them a long time ago.
Now Weedhound, I love and respect you, and I deeply want to steal your dogs, but I usually don??t take anyone??s word at face value. It??s not that I don??t trust you, far from it. It??s just that I have noticed that even people that I have greatly respected have sometimes been mistaken. I spent a little time trying to find something to corroborate your hypothesis, but I didn??t have any luck. (Weedhound if you??re reading this, any chance of a link or something?) I??ll probably look more in the future, but the important thing is that I believe in what you are preaching, so much that I got to thinking about my dilemma concerning my plants?? apparent lack of proper growth. I got to wondering how I could find out what the real temperature is of individual leaves is, and the only plausible thing I could come up with is to get a laser thermometer. I wanted one now and decided not to try to get the best deal possible. I found out that they are very hard to come by in these parts, but fortunately an auto parts shop in a nearby hick town had one. Turns out that even though the air temp around the plants was supposedly 85, the leaves were showing anywhere from 80 to 91 when using the laser thermometer. Just as many, if not more of the readings were above 85 than were below. I thought that this is not good according to Weedhound, even though I have heard of growing in temperatures over 100. It definitely would explain my apparent lack of growth for a couple days immediately following the lowering of the light. So I kept raising my light until all my leaf readings were under 80. It??s now almost 3 feet above the plants.
Tomorrow I am going to put a variable speed switch on one of my inline fans and run it through that louvered opening you can see in the 2nd picture, and another one you can??t see about a foot above it. Perhaps then I will be able to lower my light.
Summary: Assuming Weedhound is correct, and she probably is, then the only real way to find out what distance your light needs to be from your plants, is to use a laser thermometer and measure the leaf temperature. Keep raising your light until all leaves read less than 80.
OK here we go, 3rd major tie down, 20 days after introduced to the system, 4 days after 2nd major tie down. Nutrients increased from 1000 PPM to 1313. Why 1313? Because I was aiming for 1300 and came darn close. A delicate bouquet of well water, Fox Farms Grow Big, Liquid Karma, SuperThrive, PH down, and GHs SubCulture. Yum!
Snapped one nice node off today. Oh well I guess that's not too bad for 3 tiedowns.
The first one is before this tie down, the next two are after, and the last two are of the biggest plant, before and after.
I forgot to mention that I think I solved the mystery of the ghosties. I think it was dust or dirt as someone mentioned, but not in the air. I just happened to notice that my camera lens was filthy today and so I cleaned it. No more ghosties that I've noticed so far. I clean my camera lenses as regularly are clockwork, once every five years.
I think it was Zcomp that asked about those seedlings, and I kept forgetting to respond. Sorry, but here you go: The footprint of the grow is being taken over pretty well with foliage, so I had to move the seedlings into my mother section for further development. Right now the lighting is all the wrong wavelength (2700K is for budding), so I got myself a deal on a bunch of ??daylight? bulbs which are good for vegging (5500K) and plan to replace them all tomorrow, and get them closer to the plants. But for today, here??s the pictures of my Blueberry X Northern Lights babies. I told the doctor that I didn??t want to know their sex yet, but I am secretly hoping most of them are girls. I know from experience that the girls of this strain make a particularly nice smoke, filled with THC and other goodness.
Now for crying outloud, no more posting for a bit. I have to get up in a few minutes, so I'd better be heading off to bed.
I haven't said much here, but, THUMBS UP for this thread OpieY! :)
It's FAQ material, IMO.
Very nicely written, lots of pics, and explanations.
I'm enjoying it much!
Thanks man!
Best,
-turtle420 :cool:
.
Hey Opie, nice thread you got going here. You mention cloning about 2 weeks before harvest and I am talking to Weedhound about how she might wanna try this. Problem is that I have never waited that long to take cuts before....
Any chance you can stop by this thread and give your input so she can clones her MKs and learn from your experiences? --- http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...ml#post1728877
P.S. Like the approach, I might have to give this a whirl in the near future
MVP :jointsmile:
If you got a few Decent HID you'd be in business... You are obviously quite knowledgable... It seems like lighting and possibly genetics are slowing you down. What kind of genetics are those? bagseed? and what kind of lights i saw the one picture of the y-socket cfl Is that all you're using? Hydroponics is best if the lighting can keep up.
nice looking grow Opie; I'll be keeping an eye on this one hopefully to get some ideas for my next grow. :thumbsup:
Everyone:
Thanks for stopping by, and thanks so much for the compliments.
Earthy Dank:
I understand not wanting to read all the posts on a thread, so here you go.
"The last photo is a jerry-rigged light, of which I put one set on each side of the grow to supplement the 600W HPS. I thought it needed some blue. They are 23 W each and 5500K daylight bulbs, for a total of 400W equivalent additional. Should help."
The genetics are pure-bred AK-47 from a clone, so I don't think that or the lighting is any problem, since there is 1000W equivalent in there, some nice red HPS and some nice blue CFL.
So you think something is slowing me down? Not sure what you mean, except perhaps for the fact that I started with seriously fucked up clones as noted previously. There is one plant that is not growing as I would like (lower left in the photos), and I am thinking of yanking it. Not even counting the fact that most plants have two main stems, they would be about 14" tall if not tied down. That's not real bad for 3 weeks into the system is it? I mean considering that they are getting LSTd and making tons more nodes than normal?
I'm by no means an expert, so please keep the suggestions coming, but I'm not seeing the lights or genetics as a problem. Please clarify if you disagree.
Yeah... i didnt see that post i just saw those last couple ones with the little seedlings all stretched out. It looked like just cfls at first... How far away are you keeping the hood from the plants? What kind of ventialation do you have? Can you get pictures of your whole set up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Earthy, I'll try and get some more photos up for you, and some more info later this evening. Not sure though.
Thanks for the interest in helping.
Obviously I didn't get any photos up that evening, and I still don't have any of my whole set up, but I got a couple more.
Well it's 4 weeks now since I put them in the system. I can certainly see how I went about this wrong. Mainly I should have not started to LST until they had grown about 6 or 8 inches. Then it would have been easier to get my hands to the back. This way all I could think of was to make isles, or rows to the back.
In a few days they should be getting big enough to start pulling them to the screens that make up the walls of the rows. I already did a little, but more will come soon. I can get my hand to the back, even in the row that has the fan, and I intend to keep it that way. I'm going to start taking off the smaller shoots soon, in order to let at least a few of the ones from the weaker plants a chance to get to the top.
This kind of 2 1/2 level, 5 isle, stadium screen looks more complex than it is. It was way easier to put together than the previous one I made which was from chicken wire, and it had openings smaller than 1x2". These openings are 2x3", which I'm finding out is a huge advantage when it's time to tie things to it.
So here it is, as it's going together.
Since the plants showed no nute stress since last weeks bump to 1313, I upped it again to 1410.
The fan in the middle is blowing straight up at the light. It should allow me to get the light much closer than the 3 feet it needed to be before. I'll check tomorrow on the leaf temps, and see if I can't get it even closer. There's a 6" inline fan connected to vent on the wall and one above it, but it makes a darn hurricane in there. I bought a 4 position fan switch I was going to wire on it, but then I read the package better and it said it was for 10 W ceiling fans, not 75 W inlines. Can anyone recommend a speed control for that fan? So, that's going to have to wait a little longer. I might get those CFLs back in there soon too.
I want buds now! Oh well, gotta stick this out I guess.
arnt thew crops in the middle not getting much light caus of the fan? :rastasmoke:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I use a rheostat that I built from HD parts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
- dimmer switch rated for 600W total lighting $5.00
- dual gang metal electrical box $2.50
- 1 foot of 14/3 copper wire $0.50
- 3 prong grounded outlet $2.00
- 25 ft. outdoor extension cord $6.00
- misc wiring connectors left over from remodel $0.00
Being able to control fans to any speed desired....Priceless :cool:
Oh yeah, I am running a 6 inch Vortex rated at 449 CFM and approx 80 W at full throttle....
I've done this before (kinda) with that light. It's pretty small but cools the light real well. I only need a 3" hole all the way up through any foliage or buds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy1414
I took some temp readings of the leaves after moving the light to about 28 inches from the canopy, and they averaged about 73. Just moved the light down to 22 inches above the canopy. I'll check again in awhile. I'm just trying to keep the top leaves below 80 (due to what Weedhound says), and get the 600 watter as close as possible.
Really cool idea. I didn't know you could get a dimmer rated that high for such a low price. I'm off to Lowes probably soon for a different chain saw, and I'll see if I can pick one up there. Don't buy a Poulan saw. Did some research and you need a Stihl or Husqvarna.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
I imagine all I need is box and the dimmer, since I don't need an outlet. I just want to wire it straight to the fan. Thanks for the great idea.
This is the one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Rotary 600W Dual Knob
Man MVP, I just can't rep you no matter how many other people I've been repping. Anyway, thank you very much. I'll take the info with me and perhaps save some time. Next to my family and my health, time is the most valuable thing I have.
Well amigo, when I need chainsaw advice I'll be sure to hit ya up for some. I think you'll like the dimmer solution once you get it all put together. Enjoy! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I ended up not getting my saw at Lowe's, but I did go there for an extra 20" chain. They had the exact thing you have I think. I hope I can get it wired tomorrow, but I'm finding with these fucked up winter temperatures, and my little fan wired on my screen, I may not need it. I got the light nice and close and the leaves are still about 74 degrees, but that's with our house at 72. Once I start the fireplace going, our house can shoot up to 86 in a couple rooms. My flowering section exhaust is set up to kick in at 76 degrees, and it seems to be running about half the time lately.
Thanks again. I feel like I really scored.
I??m a little disappointed. Not knowing what I was doing I tied them down right from the beginning. I wasted 3 or 4 weeks this way. I should have let them grow awhile, then started LST on the bottom screen. Lesson learned.
I should be spending about 2 hours each day tucking stuff under the screen, exposing new nodes, cutting off popcorn buds and keeping my isles to the back clear. I'm not.
The first two pictures are from about a week and a half ago, when I started drastically cutting. I tried to leave as many fan leaves as possible intact, but I cut off all the little would-be popcorn buds, as well as whatever was needed for me to get my hand to the back of each row. I also cut a whole bunch out of the plants that showed a poor attitude, hoping that just a few strong stems is better than 12 or 15 weak ones. Some showed improvement, but I think one or two are going to get the ax completely soon.
I??ve started tucking a bunch that keep wanting to come through the screen. Starting with suckie clones has sure bit me in the ass. I??m afraid I??m going to flower without a properly filled in screen. I may have to forego an awesome yield in order to not have to run out of something to smoke. Well we??ll see, I??ll keep vegging for a while still. I would love to get the whole screen filled in, but it may take too long to fill in the areas that the bad plants aren??t taking care of as hoped for. You suck! You bad plants, you. I should have known better.
Like my funnel and hose, so I can water the back ones easily? Oh yeah, the three in the back nearly bought the big one. I ran them bone dry for about 2 hours, I think. They were extremely unhappy, especially the healthy one. Note to self: get a clue.
Well here's where we are now.
I took a big chance and tried changing several variables at once. That can be dangerous, because if one causes a problem, you can't be sure which one is the problem causer. I bought a new PH meter and PPM/EC meter. Both are the truncheon models from Bluelab. I absolutely love these meters for more reasons than I wish to go into at this time. The point is I used both new meters, and a new nutrient at half strength, in place of half of my old nutrient. I thought they were looking a little on the light green side and exhibiting signs of a Nitrogen deficiency.
That was 3 days ago, and they certainly don't seem to be minding the change at all. In fact, they are looking quite a bit better, except for some slight nute burn. I'll back it off from 1400 to 1350 next time.
I sure am getting tired of the long veg time my inexperience has caused me. I think my new years resolution will be to go to take some cuttings for another grow, wait a couple weeks and then go to flower.
The last picture is after tucking nodes under the screen a little.
Big thanks to MVP for the heads up on the cheap dimmer switch. I have a fan wired up to it now, blowing out two vents like the one in the top of the top middle photo above. Should help quite a bit to get the light closer. I basically did what MVP did except my dimmer is mounted separate from the electric outlet.
Oh by the way I've added some vegging bulbs. 10 total 23W CFL, for an additional 1000W equivalent to go with the 600W HPS.
Very nice Opie :jointsmile: I cant wait to see what the final outcome looks like.
Opie, great work I must say... BTW, do you have more pics of the CFLs you are using for veg? Did you have to rig up something custom? Or did you find a couple of fixtures to tweak like a vanity panel? I have a feeling that I will be vegging forever in my "Quasi-SCROG" (log link in sig) that I am trying so I am thinking about doing the same thing. Also the local elec. co. is subsidizing 23W CFLs right now and they are a dollar each....
I AM interested in knowing more about your new meters when you have time to elaborate a bit: what do you like, where does one get them, how pricey are they? You know, the basics.
Happy Holidays!
:areindeer::noel::areindeer:
MVP
Nothing big on the CFL's. Just some $2 power strips wired to the screen, and a bunch of $2 plug in thingees to screw the bulbs into. I'm going to have to move them soon I'm afraid.
the more I read about this,the more I'm thinking about doing the same...
Thanks for the great pics as well..
Peace,
Treetops :thumbsup:
Ahhhh, the old plug in socket thingees... so do tell: Why are you gonna have to move the lights? I wanna know before I run out and build something similar...
If I want to fill in the whole screen I am going to need to move the lights, since they are sitting on the screen. Haven't decided yet. Getting antsy to flower, and I may just leave them.
Is it possible to do a scrog with small plants? Or do you need to veg for a good month or two?
I suppose it would be possible, but in general you have to veg a little longer so that you can fill in the screen. You could have several plants and get the screen filled faster, or just one and take 3 or 4 months to get it filled in. I usually veg for 2 mo. with 6 or 8 plants, then put them in the flower section under the screen, tuck and tie nodes under the screen for a couple weeks, then flower.
Opie, SCROG question:
My Dominas are getting so damn thick in their main shoots that I cannot tie them down without serious, serious effort. Their fan leaves are gigantic and stuffing them back down thru the 2 in x 2 in screen is causing a few of their fans to break (not the whole leaf, just a finger or two here and there). I was planning to wait until approx 1/8 or so to flip them into flower but I can't tell how I will be able to keep an even canopy if I do.
Maybe you can help me with some ideas. As for the Hijack... Here are some pics to make up for that. Can I borrow your winch?
Happy New Year!
MVP
:i feel stupid: :icon401: :pimp: :lol5:
I can't tell how to keep an even canopy either. I am getting a little better each time I think, but it is very difficult to judge when to do a lot of things in a scrog. It's an art that can only be learned through experience. Then just when you think you got it down, you try another variety and everything's all different again.
All I can tell you is what I go for on average. When the screen is about 2/3 full of bud sites, I go to flower. I keep tucking and occasionally tying. Not only do I consider how much space is left on the screen, but also of the space that is already taken up with growth, how much of that is not yet filled in. (Awkward wording, sorry) Part of the 2/3 mark is in that space as well. I try to get an even field of buds, with the main colas more toward the outside and the small ones in the center. I have 2 x 3? openings, and I??m hoping I can get 2 or 3, but at least one bud coming up through each hole. For your 2? openings I would probably want 2 colas coming up through each. After 2 or 3 weeks of flowering, (man flowering is one word you can really type fast) or when some good flowers start showing up, I let the buds come up through the screen. Ultimately you want a perfect, tightly spaced carpet, or forest of little Christmas trees. Please let me know when you get a perfect one, and then you should probably right a book about how to do it. I would buy it or download it for free. Did I say that out loud?
I've discovered that scrogging is a lot like sailing. When I'm on my sail board zipping between anchored boats, I don't always end up going around the exact boat that I was originally planning to. You must compromise and do what the wind wants you to. If you work with it instead of trying to do exactly what you want, you will reach your destination much quicker. Destination in our case is of course high yield. Any kind of order I try to achieve usually ends up being a free-for-all anyway. I usually change my mind several times about where plants are going to go, or when I plan to flower, or?
Well I got some tucking and tying to do, then perhaps I??ll send yesterdays pictures.
What was the question again? Oh, Yes you may borrow my winch. When do you want it?
2008??? What the hell?
Oh yeah.
And, weird. I just got done looking at very similar pictures of your grow, and then boom. There's some more. Thanks.
That winch will come in handy tying down the main shoots, which are as thick as a pencil, and damn near as tough!
And I say unto thee brethren, there was much rejoicing from the highest mountain tops to the valley floors in the land of Canaan. Yesterday was the ladies first full day of budding. The day before they got up at the normal time, but went to bed early. The first two pictures are yesterday and the second two are of a screen that's half tucked and tied, today. I could spend at least twice the time I do, tucking fan leaves down, exposing bud sites, getting rid of would be popcorn buds under the canopy, and arranging each stem more betterish. I've already decided not to try and get rid of everything that should go, and just end up with some popcorn buds. I hope it doesn't take to much energy away from the real buds. Oh well, I'm pretty sure I'll get at least a couple hits out of the grow.
I fear that I may have too many bud sites in a small area, especially at the front of the screen. At the back, the one in the middle took over that area, and I don't even know if any of the outside back two have any bud sites exposed. I was going to toss them since they looked like they were hibernating, but I didn't want to deal with the mess of roots, and untangling plants from the screen. I've been removing more fan leaves than I like to. It seems like every fan leave is shading a bud. I started tucking leaves today and decided that wasn't working, and ended up removing a bunch of em.