I say again: SuperThrive should not really be used for flowering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zcomp
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I say again: SuperThrive should not really be used for flowering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zcomp
hey i'm new to this site, but i have only 2 10% uvb repti-sun cfl's and 4 sun light cfl's all on for 20 hours a day. the three plants seem healthy, but the plants leaves that are near to the repti-sun cfl's (about 4 inches away) have turned shiny orange-brown and silky and the plant is still alive and other than that the leaves look healthy. any advice, i am not trying to throw away the repti-sun because they were 45 each at the store, even though my friend had a five finger discount. any advice?
hey i'm new to this site, but i have only 2 10% uvb repti-sun cfl's and 4 sun light cfl's all on for 20 hours a day. the three plants seem healthy, but the plants leaves that are near to the repti-sun cfl's (about 4 inches away) have turned shiny orange-brown and silky and the plant is still alive and other than that the leaves look healthy. any advice, i am not trying to throw away the repti-sun because they were 45 each at the store, even though my friend had a five finger discount. any advice?
a picture would help a lot.....
and next time leave the part about being a five finger discount out of the topic. you wont get much respect here when people find out you hang out with theifs.
Interesting stuff there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zcomp
According to that article:
So then if those findings are correct, that would mean the most beneficial range of 270-280 doesn't quite fall into the UVB category... it's UVC.Quote:
Cannabinoid pathway: Anywhere in this pathway UVB does a better job than UVA in energizing a phytochemical reaction that will produce more fully realized THC because "all cannabinolic compounds show an absorption maximum between 270 and 280 nm in the ultraviolet region."
Every source I find will list the cutoff between UVB and UVC at 280 or 290 nm. That's just splitting nanohairs! Never-the-freakin-less, anything between 270 and 280 is still gonna be considered as UVC.
Actually, who cares what it's called, right?? It's close enough.
As long as it works!
The UVB light should work great but if you want to get technical about it and purchase some LEDs, then perhaps that 270-280nm might be your best bet... but good luck figuring out how many individual LEDs you need for that!
Oh yeah, and if you want more confusing stuff to read about it, check this out:
Comparison of three advanced chromatographic techniques for cannabis identification
3rd paragraph of the Findings section mentions all that UV absorption stuff with and a couple graphs to look at.
And now for another bit of random info from iguanaden.org
"Most tube-style UVB bulbs lose their effectiveness in about 6 months, even though they still produce light.
I'm not even growing at the moment yet I'm starting to get obsessive over this stuff.... someone please put me out of my sobriety
GD, thanks. Interesting.
mari, I agree with keeko on both counts. I hate thieves, and we need a picture of the problem. Pimping and stealing are not things to be proud of, and I don't understand how that can get turned around for anyone. I've never heard of leaves turning shiny and silky. Even a picture from a phone camera would be better than nothing. You need 50 posts to put up an image here, but you could always supply a link to your image on a free image hosting site, like photobucket.
:thumbsup: thanks bud, "must spread before giving to OY again"Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I was told that these bulbs would be the absolute best by someone who has done thois before with great results...they are mercury vapor bulbs that produce the right amount of uvb used to properly mimic the sun in a tropical climate, 250-300 microwatts per square centimeter (uW/cm2) of UVB and 2,000uW/cm2 of UVA at a 3 foot distance...most tropical places get about 400 uW/cm2 of uvb at mid day so id say about 2 feet away, use this bulb about 4 hours in mid light cycle for best results, check out the links to read more and tell me what you think, i was looking at the external ballasted zoo one, these also last a hell of alot longer than a normal reptile uvb light that might only last a maximum of 5-`6 months before it looses its power and stops producing uvb light
ReptileUV Mega-Ray Mercury Vapour Lamps for Reptiles - Test Report UV Guide 2006
Mega-Ray® & ReptileUV Products
You get banned here for bragging about theft btw...
On the subject- I just feel the need to interject here that while strains grown at high altitudes and subjected to more intense UV light do produce more resin (along with less yield due to the thinner air), for 99.9% of growers, the extra cost of purchasing and operating supplemental UVB bulbs simply doesn't make sense for one of a number of reasons, the most common one being that other factors in the grow are not yet optimized. This is similar to running CO2- but even less likely to make the grower say, 'ohhey, that was like, TOTALLY, worth it!!!'
So as with all other things, get the basics locked down tight before spending money on what is simply a gimmick in the hands of a less experienced grower.
Thank you all for your thread guys! I have found this lamp and starting to use it!
1 lamp per 1 meter ^2 This will provide a highland uv b or equatorial UV b
Радикал-Фо???о - Увели??енное изоб??ажение
Радикал-Фо???о - Увели??енное изоб??ажение
pretty doubtful many here, speak that language :wtf:
Actually, it links to a picture of the lamp, with the writing in english, lol.
This thread is an old one...but a couple things to remember when using the UV bulbs.
1. Whether they are the self-balasted compact fluorescent type, or tube fluorescents...limit your exposure, and use proper UVA and UVB eye protection. (turning it off when in the growroom is a good idea) UVB is the range that causes skin to burn. And contrary to what the tanning bed operators say, these lamps also put-out UVA, which is known to cause skin cancer with prolonged exposure. (they are unsafe for frequent tanning, or frequent growroom visits) The eyes are the most important to protect, though. Damage is likely irreversable and permanant, from what I understand.
2. Effective range on my CFL UVB bulb is 12". (the effective distance that provides the necessary UVB that makes reptiles shed...the original reason for these lamps) But I've found that placing my 7% UVB bulb about 6" from the plant, for about 6 hours in the middle of the day, is best. (so far it seems best...but I'm still experimenting)
Have you watched this video? :
THC, UVB and Me
If not...I'd do so now. Shitloads of quality insight on trichomes, and the potential for positive UVB effects. :jointsmile:
Hey Rusty, what kind of light are you using?
I went to the pet store the other day, and they wanted like +65? for a 50cm 20w (i think) 10% (i'm sure) uvb fluoro... I can almost get 400w hps system for that much...
Do they make a uvb cfl light that screws into a typical socket? And if so, where can you get them? Who makes them? The only ones I've found are minimum 100w... Any and all info is much appreciated :D
The one I'm using is a self-balasted compact fluorescent bulb that fits in normal lamp sockets. The bulb is in a clamp-fixture, and can be raised and lowered to the plants needs. All lights are raised so I could get a good picture.
I was going to do a thread about this in a side-by side test, but the range of the UVB is up to five feet, so a true side-by-side is impossible for me.
I'm not totally sold, but early results are pretty good for my indica's, so-so for my sativa's. Increases aroma and by extention, flavor. Seems to age the leaves, and dry them out quicker than without the treatments. Possible 'burning-off' of nitrogen (or chlorophyll) as treatments continue. (will get pix next go-around) Apparent increase in numbers of pores 'opening-up' and developing trichomes, on both sides of the leaves.
From there, my experiment was cancelled, due to the fact I was getting low on smoke, and harvested. Will continue to experiment, though. Going to be real tough to discern any difference in positive psychotropic effects, as what I grow, get's me pretty fucked-up already. But am willing to contimue to keep pushing the envelope, in the name of science of course. :jointsmile:
Thanks for dropping the info and experience Rusty :greenthumb:
Definitely something to think about for the future, but from your description it sounds like it's possible to screw things up worse if you are already experiencing problems. Like StinkyAttic said, it's like the CO2 thing. Better for me to get everything perfect first before I try to get anything more out of grows :D
leave the tempered glass ON ... it does not filter out that much light, and provides protection for your eyes, etc... if you wind up blind, you'll not miss that tiny bit of lost lumens :wtf: ... I am now legally blind in my right eye, the loss came about rather quickly, a matter of months ... a cracked high-pressure globe emits dangerous rays, and the crack tends to be almost invisible ... it has me suspicious of the reason for my current eye situation ... :wtf:
Ouch. Bummer. Hopefully it was from watching MTV video's too close, and not a cannabis-related incident... Sucks either way though. :(
Has the eye doc offered any possible reasons for the bad eye? Not that it helps to dwell, but for future information.
Gee. Makes me wonder how many growroom-related skin and eye injuries there are from different growroom practices. Info like using no lens with HID's = 20% increase in melanoma occurance, UVB use = 50% more incidents of retna burn and loss of sight...stuff like that. Would be handy info for those of us already suffering with major illnesses and diseases.
Or, I uess we can just assume the worse case scenario, and take as many precautions as possible, huh...?
Stoned and bored. Bad combo, as I tend to ramble, lol. :jointsmile:
I always wear my shades; when my Ceramic Metal Halide bulb is on...:cool:
Red 660nm will produce more trich's the one can shake a stick at and know harm to you or your plants. Leave the UVa,b,c to reptiles.
Thank god.......somebody with personal knowledge and experience. :thumbsup:
Mind providing some proof or personal insight? My preliminary findings say you're wrong, but I'm not done testing, either. But time will tell, so pardon me if I seem amused by a statement like yours, in which you've provided nothing in support of this claim. :jointsmile:
Dogznova;Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
There are some subjects that I try to avoid on these boards....one of them is the use of UVB supplemental lighting. But you've pushed my LED button so I guess it's time for me to address it.
First, I have noticed a slight increase in trichome production using LED lighting. The two Procyon's I used for awhile showed this effect, but they use red Cree LED's at 635nm.....not 660nm. While the full bandwith probably includes some 660, it could not be enough to explain the effect. Just possible the effect comes from the blues, Cree's peak at 450nm, and thier bandwith may include some UV or near UV. Hmmmmmmm interesting.
I currently have 2 Ti Pro-Blooms and they show even more trichome production then the Procyon's did and you know what, they have 660nm! But wait, they also have (drum roll please) UVB (ta da). It's one of the reasons I bought them, they where smart enough to use an enhanced light band that included UVB.
Main reason I avoided talking about UVB, I know it works and I can't see why there is even a discussion about it. It is so easy to demonstrate. I've tried back to back grows with and without, and there is no doubt in my mind it makes a big difference, not just trichome production but THC production.
Maybe you should have tried a little experiment with UVB before moving on to Martian Night lighting.....
Rusty If you can get a hold of some red 660 give it a try. Soon there will lots of proof. Your right, it would be foolish of me to tell you I can 100% proof this fact. I can't nor will I try.. But this proof you want does exist. It's just not public at this point.
Rusty here is something I always like to say.
Laugh at me, Laugh with me, as long as your Laughing. :S2:
Also Rusty I enjoy reading all your post. You've got a great way of making your points. Keep those fingers typing. :thumbsup:
Old mac you are right. But I personally don't think your plants need that uvb like you think they do. What if you could get the same effect with just 660. Would you drop that harmful uvb. I think most would. Sure a small amount of uvb is just fine, don't get me wrong. I think the future will show that your particular purpose for uvb (trichome production) is not needed and is harmful to you and your favorite girls. :smokin:
Sorry.... I just seen this.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
I have done experiments with UVB before I moved on to Martian Night lighting... Someday you will come over to the dark side. :jointsmile:
Yo' Dog,
Sorry.....I couldn't help taking a cheap shot at ya.
You also touch the other reason why I don't discuss UVB, there is a safety issue. It's also why I never talk about certian methods for CO2, I really don't want to be responsible for hurting someone.
While the science is sketchy about trichome production, it is pretty clear about about the production of THC. UVB is necessary for that.
I'm still waiting for the Martian Nights to produce an "ah ha" moment, then I'll look into it. So far tho I've been a little put off by you or your uncle's various poor takes on fundemental horticulture, but I am still interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Looks like that's two holes in my head now. :( Sorry my uncle and I offended ya somewhere down the line..
Hey Dog,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
You and your uncle did not offend me at all, it's just that a few of the things I've read where not based on sound science. That then makes me leary to imbrace other things that are said. I have said to you and others on the martian thread, I appreciate the expriments and efforts you're making and I really am looking forward to a break thru using the method.
Plus you can't be all bad, you see the wonders of LEDs just like I do.
Here's a LED only trichome covered (young) bud.
Nice flower oldmac. I'm glad I didn't offend you. :thumbsup:
Thought I might post a pic of a small finished bud, that's manicured.
This was grown under T5 vho and UVB. No LED, No HPS.
Nice. Is that dirt or hydro?
Hi Dogz,
That's both. It's hydro drip to waste grown in Pro-Mix Bx. I consider pro-mix dirt, I would prefer growing in aero/fog, and that's comming very soon.
Oldmac you are clearly getting better results then we did with uvb. The reason I asked hydro or dirt is. With our strain the flowers will produce more trich when done in a hydro setup then done in a dirt setup.
We currently are getting better results using the method you talked about in the other post. We tried supplemental uvb and I think my uncle got up to about 4 to 6 hours a day (not sure thou). How many hour per day is good for uvb supplemental lighting?
Personally I would rather be in your shoes. When the correct M Method and bulbs are released you will have it dripping of your flowers. Althouugh can you get much more on there now. :D
For Dogznova and anybody else interested,
First: WARNING UVB light is dangerous to your eyes, skin and health.
DO NOT go into your bloom room while it is on.
In the pure T5 set up I used there where 6-4' T5 2700K fluorescents, driven to VHO levels (85watts/bulb) using an IceCap ballast.
I used 2-4' T5 Zilla desert 50 fluorescent bulbs that only come as NO (normal output, 28watts) but of course I overdrive them to VHO levels of 85watts.
That's 3X normal for at least 3 times the output.
How long to use them each day is very strain dependent. The above bud (NLxJackHeher) was the result of abt 2 hours per day. Some of the pure indicas I have tried made good use of up to 4 hours a day, but at a certian point you get no more Trichome prodution or increase in potency. So far my observations indicate that equatorial sativas and high altitude indicas like much more time then other strains. And if you think about it, that makes perfect sence since those are the areas that recieve the most natural UVB light.
I honestly have not experimented enough with the pure T5 setup, I used the frame and 4-T5s to build a hybred LED/T5 light.
Curently I'm using the 2-T5 Zilla bulbs to suplement a 1kw HPS light, again just a few hours in the middle of the light period.
Great info. I'm not sure witch bulbs my uncle tried (I will have to ask him). I do know they weren't T5's. Maybe the uvb bulb was not strong enough (you think?). Don't get me wrong he was getting some extra trich production with the uvb bulb, just not as much as he is getting now with the red.
Thanks for sharing Oldmac :thumbsup:
With UVB, doubtful anyone will convince me that it's inconsequential, and I wouldn't participate in this thread if I hadn't had personal experience and a result worth mentioning.
But I'm a little dubious that a single-point in the UVB spectrum is the desired course, but honestly...I like what my wide UVB spectrum provides. At worst, it costs me about $1 a month to run the light. At best it reminds the plant that production of THC and CBD's is still important for it's survival against the harshness of the sun's rays. (at least the UVB and UVA) IMHO, this gives the plant more aromatics and likely improved effects. (although quantifying potency is truly subjective, as CBN, CBD and THC levels can fluctuate within a given strain)
I'm not at all slamming the LED theology...but I am of the opinion that, like ph, nutes and seasonal light spectrums, there is an effective UV range. :thumbsup:
As previously stated a couple of times...safety before stupidity. Use proper care if adding this light to your growroom.
Few questions (I have many).Quote:
Originally Posted by cture
According to technical data this lamp is 260nm to 320nm, but according to the spectograph it peaks at like 305nm and has a much broader range. How can I find out what all these lamps really emit (nm, range and mw/cm2)?
It would be usefull to know to get the right full spectrum and to not destroy the plants.
Also I wonder how much of sunlight is UV(-B) in desert and high altitude areas and how that changes throughout time.
Preferably in an exceptional good year (like you have in wine).
Typically "98.7% of the ultraviolet radiation that reaches the Earth's surface is UVA".
How much UV do high THC areas get and how much of it is A or B? It would be nice to have a kind of light schedule per region and it would make sense to imitate that, because that is what the plant is adepted to and what should prevent burning.
It seems like you only need little UV-B and I wonder if there would be UV leds (at a normal price) that have enough of it.
Finally, sand reflects 25% of UV and snow 85%. How much would the foil in a growroom reflect?
I did find this in my search for answers:TEMIS -- Clear sky UV index and ozone at a location
Now I still don't know anything, but it was fun playing with.
Imagine growing your plants there; 100% guaranteed you will get high. :D
Hello herb lovers,
These UV-B posts are always interesting threads to read... thanks for everyone's input. I am just getting into my garden herb hobby after a several year hiatus but several years ago I did some experimenting with supplementing my HPS and CFL bloom closet with UV-B. In 2005 I did tons of googling and I found a link to a scientific study on the effects of UV-B lighting on marijuana. The study definitely showed a cause and effect of greater THC production on the study group plants that were exposed to UV-B during their growth. This study was done using UVB medical T12 fluorescent style lamps and they cited a particular Philips T12 bulb. I wish I could find the same study and if anyone knows where it can be found I'd love to read it again.
The nice thing to me about this Philips bulb (in addition to the study citing that it works!) is that it produces very little heat and operates in a standard fluorescent fixture and with a 4 foot length it fits perfectly into my 2' x 4' x 8' bloom closet. My bloom closet already had a 600w HPS with a Hortilux bulb and a six lamp HO T5 fixture mounted on the back wall of the closet. I placed the UV-B lamp between the 600w and the fluoros approximately 8" from the plants. I started with a couple hours of exposure and slowly ramped up the exposure to about five hours per day. I was growing THSeeds' "The Hog" and "Hash Plant," and "White Widow" in dirt at the time. Within a few days I noticed a visible difference and at harvest all of the varieties were at least 20% more dank and smelly than my previous grows of the same strains when you compared buds.
Fast forward almost four years later and here I go again... I got rid of ALL of my shit several years ago & I have a buddy who now bought his own pad and we set up a closet at his place with similar dimensions for a bloom space. This time we're using a Quantum 1000w dimmable digital ballast with a Solar Max Dual Arc bulb and an eight bulb T5 fixture loaded with five bloom and three grow spectrum lamps. I'm really looking forward to seeing the girls EXPLODE with flowers under this full spectrum barrage... :cool:
Now for the UV-B... If only I wasn't SUCH a fucking pothead I might be able to remember something but for the life of me I coudn't find the place I ordered the bulb from years ago or remember what the model of lamp it was... lol...:stoned: Any-hoo... I did another round of exhaustive research and found the model of the bulb: Philips FS40T12/UVB. These bulbs are used for the treatment of psoriasis and other skin ailments. They are to be used under medical supervision and some suppliers don't readily sell them to just anyone. When I bought my bulb in '05 I had to send the sales dude a fax with a statement that I wasn't using them for medical purposes or where humans would be exposed to their radiation. When he asked me what I was going to use them for, thinking quickly on my feet I told him that I grew culinary herbs for area top end restaurants and the supplementing of UV-B in the grow light spectrum made the herbs develop more of their natural oils and consequently, their flavour and aroma were enhanced. Whew! He thought it was interesting and asked me to fax him the disclaimer and sold it to me.
If you search the bulb make and model number above you can come up with sources for purchasing. They sell for around $75 per bulb and they have to ship them in a special container that some charge $25 for in addition to the shipping if you buy less than a box of six. Another very good attribute of these lamps is that unlike many of the zoo UV-B bulbs for reptiles, they produce very little heat.
I can't stress SAFETY enough... you really need to limit your exposure and especially protect your eyes. This can be very bad voodoo folks... Serious bidness... Proper placement so that you don't look at them and they don't shine on you as you enter the grow space is the way to go. Also, a closet door trigger style of switch is your best bet of all. UVB should be reserved for more experienced growers that have all the other factors under control in their setup. UV-B isn't necessary to grow great pot but using it will improve things. Mother Nature knew now I do too...
Peace!
Hello gr8budz4me,Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8budz4me
Very nice post, good heads up on the bulbs. I quoted just your safety warning because it really should be repeated, often.
Excellent idea about using a closet door trigger switch, a safety switch like that might make it idiot proof, and thats a good thing.
Looks like you got a good handle on light issues.
Good luck to you and your partner on your grow. Keep us posted.
yeah good "safety tips" and "idea" about the trigger as they have all been mentioned in this thread about 100 times, in fact this thread seems pretty dead as this last post was just a summary of this thread plus some mis-information about the reptile uv-b bulbs getting hot, they're cfl's so yeah they get as hot as them but nothing more.
Also as far as extensive googling, if you just google uvb and growing you get several reports, a couple videos, and basically every growing forum out there. It was a nice long post but unfortunately it was just exactly the same info that has already been beaten to death in this thread repeated, the only new info in there is the fact that you can spend $100 on a bulb that you have to make up a story to get if you can get it, you have to sign a waiver pay by credit card and wait for it to arrive, instead of a $15 bulb that you could buy a couple if you want in cash, which is a plus, not have it shipped to your address, a huge plus and have it that night for less. Besides if your room is 4' then these wont fit width ways b/c with the fixture they go in it is over 4', I know I got screwed when I was high setting up my room and I made it exactly 4' b/c the floros were 4' and I had to have them on an angle before I got my HPS.
Just seems like this thread has completely died out when new posts become summaries of the thread and nothing more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd6515
And the content you added to our knowledge-base is...? (nada) Come back when you've got something to add, and don't bother thanking us for the insight...we know you appreciate it. :thumbsup:
Read the thread first genius I STARTED it RFLMAO:thumbsup::jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Try reading the whole thread before you chime in that I have contributed nada when I started this thread over a year ago LOL, Aug 07, and I've been watching the whole thing degrade since. I've been using uvb for more then 10 grows now and have not learned anything extra from the same stuff we started this thread with being repeated :mad::beatdeadhorse::postexcuseme::S2: