Noob's guide to growroom set-up : a work in progress

Thankyou Rhizome for doing this.. It is very informative and have learned alot so far.

If I do start a grow room will definitely use this thread as a guide! :thumbsup:

read article in one breath. Thanks for the help...after searching it was the answer I was looking for.

Using a dedicated system to cool your lights, would one simply leave out the light multiplier in the below equation to figure out the exhaust fan size?

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Originally Posted by rhizome

We have a 4x4x6 room. Our total duct length is 13'. We're using a filter. Our math now looks like-

4x4x6 room= 96 CF. Divided by 4 minutes is 24 CFM required.
24 CFM + 130% ( 10%x13')= 55.2 CFM ( I'm gonna round to whole CFM, to try to minimize decimal over-runs)

(55CFMx1.5)x1.5= 124 CFM â?? to allow for our two 90 degree bends.

124 CFMx1.3 ( to allow for air velocity lost to the filter) = 161 CFM.

So we're looking at a 161 CFM fan.

But wait- we haven't even thought about how our light's going to effect this. We could go off into a discussion of determining system effeciency by measuring intake and exhaust temperatures so that we could calc differential temperatures, but I don't know how to make the little â?? deltaâ?� symbol on my laptop keyboard, so I'm gonna skip that and assign yet another load factor...

For a 250HPS- multiply by .75
For a 400- multiply by 1
For a 600, multiply by 1.3
For a K, multiply by 1.6.

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sorry to multiple post.

to cool 2 600 watts in the supersun with the above dedicated system for the lights would one need just a booster fan or an inline fan such as a can fan?

I have been looking around for 70 cfm fans and am unable to find any at this point. let me know.

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Originally Posted by el chupanebre

Using a dedicated system to cool your lights, would one simply leave out the light multiplier in the below equation to figure out the exhaust fan size?

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Yep, that'd work.

Inline cooling 2 600's, I'd be looking @ a six inch inline.

I'm cooling one 600 with a 4" fan and ducts, and it's just not quite enough. Switching to 6" soon, along with re-routing ducts so there are less bends (a big factor). Also I find that the only way to get a 600 nice and close to the plants is to have dedicated light ventilation. And you need it if you are running CO2. If I could only give one bit of advice it would be to not skimp on ventilation. For HID, you really need to spend as much on venting as lighting.

Nice write-up rhizome.

Rhizome that is some thorough learned you making me. Your efforts are so very appreciated. I am going to be taking my second stab at setting up a room in the upcoming months and will use this information, or at least what i understood(doh).
I was trying to cool 6 600W with a 10 inch canmax. With ducting that looked like a yankee stadium pretzel. not sure it was really doing the job (another doh)

Great information!

Gotta love growing outdoors :) Most everything is free cept the labor.

What about incorporating parent room(s) inside your work area. Like for mother and father plants. Start up budget required = ? Best sources for economical(energystar type stuff) equipment = ?

What kind of increase in the power bill should someone expect?

Lets say for a daily smoker or a medical user.

This is a permalink to an instruction for calculating your power bill from a grow:
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...ml#post1885957

Combine that with the information Rhizome gave on the first page, referring to 'three Marley types', and you have yourself a figure.

rhizome . . . great information...thanks!

hello guys , i have a quick question on electricty , if i were using a 1k electrict ballast with a cooltube thats cooled with a 6in muffin fan , an environmental controller with a cap 6in inline exhaust fan , a dehumidifier & 2 hearty air pumps for 4 dwc bubblers in 5 gal buckets in a 5 x 5 x7 room . just how many different electric circuits will i have to use ? the room has 2 electric outlets ( 4 plugs ) but can i run everything off the outlets or will i need 2 run them to other outlets in other rooms ? i hope not , cause i'm trying to be discret bout it & with all the cords runnin to the room would raise suspicion , but i don't want to burn my house down either !! lol not a good thing . any sugestions ? or is it safe to run everything on those 2 outlets ? thanx for any input :thumbsup: want2beagrower :jointsmile:

I am Pres Surrey Compassion Club, BC. We have a Farm and I am building Grow Rooms (walls only so far) in a shop 21 x 30 feet.
Need Help.

this truly is great information. Thank you for taking the time to organize your thoughts and share them with us. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by want2beagrower

hello guys , i have a quick question on electricty , if i were using a 1k electrict ballast with a cooltube thats cooled with a 6in muffin fan , an environmental controller with a cap 6in inline exhaust fan , a dehumidifier & 2 hearty air pumps for 4 dwc bubblers in 5 gal buckets in a 5 x 5 x7 room . just how many different electric circuits will i have to use ? the room has 2 electric outlets ( 4 plugs ) but can i run everything off the outlets or will i need 2 run them to other outlets in other rooms ? i hope not , cause i'm trying to be discret bout it & with all the cords runnin to the room would raise suspicion , but i don't want to burn my house down either !! lol not a good thing . any sugestions ? or is it safe to run everything on those 2 outlets ? thanx for any input :thumbsup: want2beagrower :jointsmile:

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I see it's been a while since you posted this but you need to find out how many amps the circuit is rated for and the total that your stuff will be using.

If your still interested I think 2 15 amp circuits would be ok, see what the wire size and outlet ratings are and you might be able to swap out 15 for a 20amp

i know the main grow lights can kick the power bill a lot and raise red flags at PG&E, apartment having just under 1000 in electric bill or home with 1000+

so on this matter i have been talking to someone who does solar installation and this type of set up can power your grow room in a sense...

what is your take on this and do you feel its cost effective and worth it?

also have you heard or seen LED Grow lights and what is your take on those?

for the bigger set ups in homes i would think, if its cost effective, a solar set up with a high end light set up could be a way to go but thought i would ask you

also i have heard of someone making ventilation through the ground under the grow room (basement of a house with dirt floor) to circulate and cool the air as well as filter it. instead of sending out and bringing in air from outside its circulated underneath the ground, cooled, filtered, then piped in!

have you heard of something like this? thoughts on the idea?

if this is true and it works it could, for basement growers, cut out the problem of smell and exhaust outside that could get you caught

alls i got to say is thank you very much kind sir. your thread was more extensive then anything i could possibly think to find. my first post and very appreciative of this site!!;)

Hey Man I feel riped off, where is the rest on room temps and other stuff, easy reading and not to complex for a first timer to learn, dont stop now.:)

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Originally Posted by spoiledcat805

i know the main grow lights can kick the power bill a lot and raise red flags at PG&E, apartment having just under 1000 in electric bill or home with 1000+

so on this matter i have been talking to someone who does solar installation and this type of set up can power your grow room in a sense...

what is your take on this and do you feel its cost effective and worth it?

also have you heard or seen LED Grow lights and what is your take on those?

for the bigger set ups in homes i would think, if its cost effective, a solar set up with a high end light set up could be a way to go but thought i would ask you

also i have heard of someone making ventilation through the ground under the grow room (basement of a house with dirt floor) to circulate and cool the air as well as filter it. instead of sending out and bringing in air from outside its circulated underneath the ground, cooled, filtered, then piped in!

have you heard of something like this? thoughts on the idea?

if this is true and it works it could, for basement growers, cut out the problem of smell and exhaust outside that could get you caught

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From my research the led's are not good enough yet. And circulating the same air might not be good. I would think they would like some fresh air. Would the plants produce enough co2 to make up for what they use? Unless you plan to add co2?

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Originally Posted by rhizome

OK- let's talk ventilation. The most important points here, IMHO-

-Nature abhors a vacuum- even a relative one ( or... pressures will tend to equalize)
-You're not moving air in, and you're not moving air out. You're moving air THROUGH.
-Questionable odors are probabley the #2 or #3 reason that folks get caught- ( Talking out of school would be #1).

The ventilation system is one of the most critical aspects of growroom design. I'm going to shy away from discussion of AC use for now- most personal gardens can get by without, and those that can't will generally be served by the climate control system of the dwelling. For now, we'll assume that that primary cooling/ dehumidification is going to be through exhaust.

The ventilation system, at it's simplest, consists of three elements- the intake, the exhaust, and the blower/fan. Choices here are about equivalently important. Let's start with fan sizing, which is tied to room size (in cubic feet) and choice of lamp.

For now, I'm going to assume that people are using a single main exhaust blower and a passive ( unpowered) intake. (Active intakes can be very effective, but great care must be taken to insure that intake CFM does not exceed exhaust CFM. In this case, you'll achieve a positive pressure condition in the growroom. This excess pressure WILL disperse in an uncontrollable manner, bringing with it delectable but dangerous aromas.( See above primary principles.) I would advise always trying to run at as close to nominal pressure as possible, with any variation from nominal being negative.)

Calculating cubic footage is simple- length x width x height = cubic volume. You want a main exhaust fan which can exchange the air in your room in no more than five minutes. I try to budget for three minutes. Let's comprimise at four minutes. Therefore, a 5x5 room with 8' ceilings would require a fan capable of [ 5(l) x 5(w) x 8(h)] = 200 cf. 200 cf / 4 (minutes)= 50 CFM for your fan. Doesn't sound like much, huh?

Now let's get into efficiency factor multipliers. ( This is where it all goes to hell).



Take your unloaded CFM requirement, and add 10 % for each foot of flexible ductwork that you are exhausting thru.( ie- you need to clear a 4x4x6 room thru 10' of ductwork. That's {96 CF /4 (minutes)}= 24 CFM + {(10'x10%)=100%} 24 CFM+100% (of 24 CFM)= 48 CFM. ( Exhaust loaded CFM)

Now take your (E.L.)CFM and multiply it by 1.5 for each 90 degree bend in your exhaust ductwork, cumulitively. ( Ie- you have a loaded CFM of 48 cfm that makes two 90' bends in it's ten foot length. That would be (48 x 1.5)x1.5- or 108 cfm loaded w/ bend factor.)

OK- CFM requirements are adding up pretty quick, and we haven't even talked about odor control. I personally think that carbon filters are the best method of odor control- but I figure that we'll get a healthy debate about this too. I like to put my carbon filter inside the room, near the ceiling. I like to set up the filter before the fan, so that air is sucked from the space, through the filter, through the fan, and then out of the space. This way, all air being pressurized by the fan has already been de-odorized. You can blow through the filter if you mount it after the fan, but be aware that between the fan and the filter there will be a zone of pressurized, stinky air- any leaks in your ductwork moving air from fan to filter will create potential smell issues. ( See primary principles above.)

Take your EL CFM ( including bend factor) and multiply by 1.3 to allow for intake restriction of the carbon filter. Don't forget to allow for ductwork between filter and fan!

So, if we're running a filter that's 3' away from the fan- our total duct length ( in the above example) is now 13'. Let's adjust our math.

We have a 4x4x6 room. Our total duct length is 13'. We're using a filter. Our math now looks like-

4x4x6 room= 96 CF. Divided by 4 minutes is 24 CFM required.
24 CFM + 130% ( 10%x13')= 55.2 CFM ( I'm gonna round to whole CFM, to try to minimize decimal over-runs)

(55CFMx1.5)x1.5= 124 CFM â?? to allow for our two 90 degree bends.

124 CFMx1.3 ( to allow for air velocity lost to the filter) = 161 CFM.

So we're looking at a 161 CFM fan.

But wait- we haven't even thought about how our light's going to effect this. We could go off into a discussion of determining system effeciency by measuring intake and exhaust temperatures so that we could calc differential temperatures, but I don't know how to make the little â?? deltaâ?� symbol on my laptop keyboard, so I'm gonna skip that and assign yet another load factor...

For a 250HPS- multiply by .75
For a 400- multiply by 1
For a 600, multiply by 1.3
For a K, multiply by 1.6.

(Let's be reasonable here- I know that my math falls apart if you're running a K in a 4x4x6 space â?? but is it reasonable to run a K in that space at all? In your very first room?)

So to put a 600 in that room, we'll take our base adjusted CFM and multiply by 1.3 .
161 CFM x 1.3 (lamp factor)= 209 CFM fan/blower to power the ventilation system.

I'm not going to blow out the math to establish what room intake sizes should be to prevent drag on the system- that get's WAY crazy... Instead, I'm going to propose that we use a rule of thumb stating that â?? Intake area should be fan CFM x .5 square inchesâ?�

Applying this rule, our 209 CFM fan would require an intake area of about 100 sq. inches- or 10â?� x10â?�. This does'nt have to be monolithic- two 50 sqâ?� intakes will work as well as one 100 sq â?? intake. You can check your intake sizing by just cracking open the door to the room and firing the fan- if the door moves at all, you need more intake.

When shopping for fans, round up- if you need a 209, and your choices are 180 or 240, grab the 240.

OK- gonna break here again and see where folks have pointed out my mistakes.

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Okay so I'm new to all this and I'll be building an 896 cubic grow room. I've been seeing varying information from different websites and forums. Some say you need to calculate for 3 - 4 evacs per minute and others say to evac once every 5 minutes. I found one forum that says if you're only trying to refresh co2, then once every 5 minutes or less is the goal and if your trying to eliminate heat as well, then 3-4 times a minute is the correct figure. You've added a whole new dimension to my confusion so what are your thoughts on this? These fan/can combos aren't cheap and if I need to go and get over 2000CFM, I'm going bankrupt before I'm even out of the gate! I thought of going to a UV ozone generator that is set up in a "buffer" box before I exhaust to the outside. Maybe the garage or attic, then out the water heater/furnace stack? I can get these o3 generators for $150 a piece and people swear by them. I've heard one is enough for an op twice my size. How to you feel about ozone as long as I keep it off my plants?

Man where were you a few months ago when I started my rooms. Ha ha.:thumbsup:

Keep her comming, dont stop now:rastasmoke:

Pay It Forward

Great informative thread

Should the white paint be flat white or glossy and will it reflect enough for fast growth.
Thanks I just signed on to your site and just starting to get started in a bedroom.I really like the way you go into detail makes for good reading.

Welcome. Flat white reflects better than glossy. There is a roof coating called Cool Seal that has worked well for me. Home Depot and lowes should have it and it will be in the roofing dept. It is just like paint as far as putting it on but I think it holds up better. So what do you have in mind for your set up?

got some nutrient tips?? and no i don't want a list of guano and stuff i cant find or afford. hardware store, garden center would be ideal:thumbsup:.

I suggest to research more on CFL lights. Nowdays there are CFL lights that would be no less efficient than HID or sodium lights.
If you are interested to purchase them and if you need a complete indoor system check AEROPONIC and HYDROPONIC INDOOR VEGITATION GROWING SYSTEMS
They got that all.

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Originally Posted by dimashef

I suggest to research more on CFL lights. Nowdays there are CFL lights that would be no less efficient than HID or sodium lights.
If you are interested to purchase them and if you need a complete indoor system check AEROPONIC and HYDROPONIC INDOOR VEGITATION GROWING SYSTEMS
They got that all.

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Their CFL light fixtures look like bathroom fixtures you can get at Home Depot or Lowes.

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Originally Posted by misslilly

Their CFL light fixtures look like bathroom fixtures you can get at Home Depot or Lowes.

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Ha, that's funny! :D

I just put one of those (a 3 bulb) in my bath 2 weeks ago. The 3 bulb fixture was like,.. 8 bucks?

Ya, this is one I made with a 3 light fixture that was going to be thrown away. I bent a reflector and painted it silver. After this pic I covered it with some leftover mylar. Added "Y" splitters and use 6 42w bulbs. I also used some eye screws, light rope and a jam cleat from a sail boat so I can adjust it up and down. I use it for seedlings and vegging.

Rhizome,

I was going to set up a room that is lined with windows going around the entire thing. These windows have screens, but I was worried about pests. Also, I was thinking that it might not be good because the light isn't fully sealed out. I appreciate any opinions on this that you might have, and thank you.

Peace,
Rider

This thread is awesome for the first timers. It should be required reading before posting questions to the board! What a great community asset. I am a noob. In the design phase, studying and researching for a room that I will build in the next 6 - 8 weeks. This info is invaluable. I have a few observations.

1. You could employ a few iris valves into intake duct or even directly into the wall. Coupled with a fan controller this would allow micro adjustments for flow control need to defeat noise.

2. In the venting calculation it would be useful to have a multiplier that accounts for a reduction in the vent duct - say you have to drop from an 8" duct to a 6" duct.

A practical question - is there any reason to not leave the fans running all of the time? My major concern is odor control so I would prefer to just let the fan run. Also, can anyone comment on carbon filters? I am willing to invest what ever is needed for odor control. Will a good carbon filter completely eliminate odor? Completely? If so, any recommendations? Perhaps coupled with a ONA type neutralizer?

Great info here, I am new to this and I am like a sponge right now reading everything I can get my hands on, thanks for the info.

Thats an awesome homemade light fixture for seedlings, I am going to make one like it I use 2 4ft flos but its not very bright for them, thanks

Hi people :))
im an outdoor grower 5years and now its time for indoor.

i have space with no windows, enought electycity power.
i've planing to separate 3 spaces
1-st 110cm wide 185cm long 2,45m tall,plan to growing ordinarry seeds from my past outdoor yields
2-nd 210cm wide 110cm long 2,45m tall,plan growing 2 seeds white widow,2 power plant ,2 super skunk#11 and 3 super skunk fenimized seeds
3-rd 100cm x 100cm for clones from the skunk seeds

would difrent seeds grow together in same space?
the ventilation bothers me and controling the heat and humidity
any sugestions people?
regards to this comunity!

ok so far loads of good stuff but I still after reading many of the post suggested to me not found the one question answered I was really looking for. Maybe I am just old blind and senile or simply seen the answer and it did not lodge in my brain pan correctly.

I am transforming my old terrarium into a hydroponics set up.
Privacy 100%
Water availability 100%
Others wandering in or out, no prob it is a terrarium and stood workin in this same spot for 5 years.
I plan to put an external covering of plywood simulated sticky paper on the external side of the walls, this is not glass but made from reinforced 2CM thick plexiglass. My friends use to call it the Iguana mobile (pope Mobile) as it is umm Stable and HEAVY built.

Nice part about this is unlike glass I can simply use a drill or cutter to make needed holes mounts or such wth no worries of broken glass.

Humidity no prob, adjustable even with humidifier intakes on the top for a downward flow of water particles if needed, Lighting set up is two slidable adjustable lamp sets which run from top of the back wall to 1/3rd down the full heigth. with secondary inlets for the sides halfway down the side walls towards the front if needed.

So by the time we cover the outside with the imitaiton wood paper it will look like any of the other large "shrunks" Portable closets, in the house, also making it light tight and easier to clean from the inside when needed.

Question is though, this monster is 6.5 feet long, 6 feet high, and just over 3 feet front to back.

Gives an average size if 117 Cubic Feet or 19.5 Square feet of space. Which do I use to calculate for the Watt of light I need for this?
Cubic feet says I need 234000 Lumins
Square feet calculations say 39000

As I can run 1 or 2 lamps from the upper back wall, or smaller lamps one on each side half way up the side walls, or should I best go with an all around approach and run 4 smaller watt lamps from each socket for a combined lumin output overall?

Plan to use high pressure Sodiums off set with Metal Halide between vegative and flower periods.
And yes, the inside of the upper 1/3rd of the structures walls and full ceiling will have reflectice foil applied as well.

Only real problem I see to date with the entire location not being optimum by the questionair to date is the ventilation issue (Good tips on that also by the way), still trying to figure how to work that since German windows do not rise up and down like american windows but tilt from the top inward with the bottom of the window still staying flush with the base of the window opening, or they can swing open like a door inward giving no real option for a partial ventelation.

The window in question however looks out onto our back yard (All 5 acres or so of it) So will not be a real eyepopper if I simply open the window during days and lay the vent tube out the edge then close it off at night, EXCEPT for winters which can be bitterly cold here. As I said, still working on the vent issue for now, house walls are 3 foot thick soild stone and morter so no otption to drill or make a seperate vent hole for this operation through the wall.

Also private growing is frowned upon in my part of Germany but not illegal so long as I do not trade brater sell or transport what I grow. So a small amount of fragrance is also not a big problem I just do not want the entire house smelling sickly sweet or some such.

Still reading maybe will find the answer as I go on, but any ideas and suggestions are helpful. If someone can explain how I can also maybe post some pics of the terrarium so folks have a better idea of that which therof I speaketh, HUmm not good at fancy smancy words :)

this really helped me ALOT! im a total newbie at growing. still confused about nutes and when and what to feed the plants. just found a 600w cool tube and a bunch of other grow equip. that my landlord left behind lol cant wait to start!:thumbsup:

humm ok so far no replies to my question above which then leads me to wonder and thus ask, Am I simply making this too difficult or eggheady for myself. Am I "over simplifing" the entire light issue, making it seem more complex than it really need to be?

Just wondering.
Tolmarex

Tolmarex get seeds for Hashplant :) Im growing one and the odor is so good from close but disopates fast. Also good ventilation controls the odor.

And for the lightning 35000-135000 lumens is what direct sunlight produces :S

my grow setup is 3 square feet with 1 plant and i only have 6 bulbs that each produce up to 1300 lumens :) in flowering stage.

for veggie i have 3 21w CFL 6500k wich each produce 1000 lumens for 1 square feet area

where has teh Rhizome gone

I almost have nothing to say. Loud and clear. Maybe this should be a supplementary.

The dry environment of your house may present another problem in growing your plants indoors. If your house doesn't have a whole-house humidifier (I certainly don't!), you can still provide the perfect humidity for these plantsâ?¦and it won't break the bank.

First, remember to finely mist the plants with water weekly. (See? I told you this wasn't going to cost you an arm and a leg!) You can also add humidity to the specific area where the plants are by simply setting a dish of water near the heat source in the room. As the heat source operates, it naturally evaporates the water, which in turn adds moisture into the air.
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Carmel Santos
CEO of Herb Gardening Guide
The Australian Guide to Herb Gardening