What is your version of THE TRUTH?

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

You don't have to "delude" yourself into believing that people appreciate your talents for written communication. I do, for one, and I'm quite sure that there are many others who do, as well. :thumbsup:

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i'm constantly torn between my desire to turn a pleasing phrase and my belief in the maxim - "eloquence is the last refuge of those who have nothing to say". it's nice to know that the compromise i've chosen is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

i'm constantly torn between my desire to turn a pleasing phrase and my belief in the maxim - "eloquence is the last refuge of those who have nothing to say". it's nice to know that the compromise i've chosen is appreciated.

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I get the point of the quote. I don't believe it means that you can't be eloquent. I think it means there's no point in writing a 50 page document describing a table when you can just get to the meat and potatoes of the issue. It's a table, it's made of wood, and it has four legs. :D

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

Hey Grazi, Delusions is a "she". :D

Everyone has their view on life. To me, JESUS is THE TRUTH.
We will be changed and we will continue. Life goes on .................................................. .................................................

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Shit that was an accident

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

Hey Grazi, Delusions is a "she". :D

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did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

My version? All versions.
Truth? It's all true.
It's all a lie.

It IS.
Want to know What god is?
God is, for the moment, this dot = .
And now god is THIS dot! = .
But you know what really, really makes god tickle?


=

wow this is way to deep for me I am a man of science I envision I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more and then I get the muchies............ this is my envision

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

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I thought so!! The avvy threw me off like a month ago and I almost made a "she" comment, somebody else did tho and thats when you corrected them.

Damnit, I hate when somebody erroneously corrects me, and I admit to their correction even though its not what my gut tells me! :mad: lol

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Originally Posted by palerider7777

religion is man made anyways, just like kings and queens,and im not saying im in with the man made stuff. but to say just because man has corrupted religion does'nt mean god does not exist.and im not downing u or trying to be mean but the way u write just makes u sound like u think ur above everyone.u know how atheist seem to think they know all just seem the way u come across i might be wrong

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Man created religion, which made it corrupt from the beginning. The corruption didnt take place years down the line, it was wrong from the beginning. Somebody saw a piece of the truth, was enlightened by a glorious glimpse into the unknown, then deluded it with their own suppositions.

Im not saying God doesnt exist either... Im saying he doesnt exist in the form that Christians seem to think he does. Thus, by referring to it as "God" will only serve to bring up those preconceived notions of a man in the sky making people out of clay and hurling down judgements and sentences.

"God" is energy. Everything in the universe is energy, and its all connected.

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Originally Posted by GraziLovesMary

"God" is energy. Everything in the universe is energy, and its all connected.

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the term "god", as it is commonly used, implies sentience. is energy sentient? is the entire universe sentient? not being omniscient, i really haven't a clue. however, i really doubt that energy contains any awareness such as we would define it. i realize this is all just a matter of semantics, but i believe you should first describe your parameters before you can define an idea such as god.

by describing god as everything, you are essentially saying that everything is everything. aside from being redundant, this would seem to only cloud the issue of the existence of god.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

the term "god", as it is commonly used, implies sentience. is energy sentient? is the entire universe sentient? not being omniscient, i really haven't a clue. however, i really doubt that energy contains any awareness such as we would define it. i realize this is all just a matter of semantics, but i believe you should first describe your parameters before you can define an idea such as god.

by describing god as everything, you are essentially saying that everything is everything. aside from being redundant, this would seem to only cloud the issue of the existence of god.

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Actually that is my point completely. I denounce the Christian view of a sentient being. I put the word "God" in quotation marks to indicate that I believe their concept of this sentient being is nothing more than a connection that all energy in the universe shares, and the mysterious properties that come of this connection.

I also believe that as we humans are a form of energy, we, too are connected on some cerebral level. Many laugh at this, but look at two people who are very intimately intertwined. When my ex and I were still together, I would always know when she woke up in the middle of the night because I would wake up at the same exact times. Sometimes she would call me if she woke up for no reason because she knew that I had just woke as well. In the mornings I would tell her the exact times during the night that she woke up, and sometimes the reasonings. I was never wrong.

Conversely, the fateful day that she slept with another man, I could instantly tell. I had the most sickening feeling in my gut, one that left me short of breath and my connection with her felt tainted. I knew immediately that she was having sex with somebody else, and I even knew how many times during that day and for how long. Accurately as I later found out. Im not trying to say Im psychic because I cant control any of this, but I do believe that all humans are connected on some level or another. My personal experiences are just a fraction of why I believe this.

lol you know what is cool... since basically everything is a form of energy, and scale is such a relative thing, you know our universe could be a damn atom in another universe... lol

i wish i didn't sound crazy... and more people put their faith in simply extending the rules of our world to the rest of exsistence.

here is the truth... morals shouldn't be tied so heavily to religion, in people's mind

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Originally Posted by palerider7777

unable to grasp the concept of the infinite, we feebly grasp at what little we know and attempt to extrapolate a grand design for the universe. seeking structure, we construct laws by which we believe the universe is constrained and then see those laws shattered as we manage to peer a little farther into eternity. so then we build another set of rules based on the tiny bit more we have learned and so on and so on.....

we humans are great rule makers and we seem to try and find patterns in everything, but in an infinite universe those patterns are so insignificant. we try to impose the idea of our superiority on the vast canvas of reality by imagining ourselves to be immortal in some twisted way. whether through magic or pseudo-science we attempt to refute the reality that we will one day cease to exist.


so here are my assembled great truths:

1. the human soul is a myth. it isn't a magical entity or a cohesive bundle of energy which survives our material demise. we exist for a short time and then we disappear and the minimal amount of energy created by or used in our passing merely goes on to be used in some unrelated activity somewhere else in the universe. our immortality exists only within those who we have touched in our brief span of years.

2. there is no great purpose for humanity's existence. we are merely another happenstance among an infinite number of possibilities and our creation is nothing more than random chance. insignificant and impotent, we are just taking up a bit of space for a while in this backwater of reality.

3. there is no grand design to the universe. chaos reigns supreme and the tiny patterns which we see as immutable laws are merely temporary eddies in the vast maelstrom of existence. there is no benevolent overseer aligning the cosmos into some ultimate harmonic convergence, no shadowy master of ceremonies with a master plan.



there you go. now be fruitful and multiply, eat drink and be merry, do unto others, brush after every meal and don't forget to floss.
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for all those big words u must know everything cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.i love these people that think there above everyone else and there supreme knowledge is to far advanced for anyone else to understand so they throw a few (big) words around well not that big in this case but iv'e seen worse lol

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sorry you see it that way

I remember the very day I thought to myself, probably around 7 years old, that being human meant I couldn't understand infinity.

I gave it up, and then 7 years later started over again.

Infinity is the only "rational" understanding god can be given to a rational person.

Irrationally... God is a marble.

The only truth is what I know to be fact.
The rest is only hearsay until proven

Cheers

NCM

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Originally Posted by Inferius

I remember the very day I thought to myself, probably around 7 years old, that being human meant I couldn't understand infinity.

I gave it up, and then 7 years later started over again.

Infinity is the only "rational" understanding god can be given to a rational person.

Irrationally... God is a marble.

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The Universe is what it is. A expanding something.
If it is expanding then it has a edge and is therefore not infinite, just really damn big so that the bigness is just to big. Least we know the direction to the center.

Anyway great philosophical debate.

My thoughts as I read this are about interpretation and expression. You can interpret anything personally, socially, as a group, or as a race, but it comes down to the expression used.
I think that the idea of God is a great idea, but in reality its probably just not real. I am a scientist (Guided by Voices) in my thinking. Was there a Jesus? Was he the son of God? Probably, but he was just a man who had great ideas of how to treat other people and yourself. Its the expressions he used to explain himself e.g. the stories, parables. In every religion there are expressions used to define God, and your Higher Power/conscience.
The interpretations of this is what get me. Organized religion is to specific and in need of money.
Not sure where I was going to go here. Hmm.

Basically, I walk the path in front of me in this shared reality I share with all of you. The body is the temple, god is inside you, find meaning in things, do unto others...


I almost said:
"Everything is true..... god is an astronaut, oz is over the rainbow, and midian is where the monsters are....... and you came to die."
- Nightbreed

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Originally Posted by HighTillIDie

lol you know what is cool... since basically everything is a form of energy, and scale is such a relative thing, you know our universe could be a damn atom in another universe... lol

i wish i didn't sound crazy... and more people put their faith in simply extending the rules of our world to the rest of exsistence.

here is the truth... morals shouldn't be tied so heavily to religion, in people's mind

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Insanity is only misunderstood enlightenment.

What you said makes perfect sense. I ponder this concept quite often when contemplating past our 4 dimensions of X, Y, Z, and Time.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

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I apologize for mistaking you for a lady. :(

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

I apologize for mistaking you for a lady. :(

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ASSHOLE!!!

lol :p j/k

There are a lot of things in this thread that I want to quote and scrutinize, but it would be a long and very critical post, so I wont do it.

There is one quote though, from the last few posts..

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Insanity is only misunderstood enlightenment.

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Insanity is only misDIRECTED enlightenment. And that misdirection, arguably, comes from ego battles within the self. It would be hard to misunderstand real enlightenment because when someone becomes enlightened they become so in-tune with the truth that they are able to communicate it to anyone they meet. In fact, a tendency to communicate your own enlightenment is probably a condition that comes with being enlightened. People who are insane dont often give advice of the quality that an enlightened person would be able to give. Insanity might be a different sort of enlightenment, but it would be a limited one relative to the traditional enlightenment.

and, to stay on topic..

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What is your version of THE TRUTH?

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A description of the truth as I have been allowed to understand it in my life would stretch across a bunch of posts and still come nowhere near to explaining the truth well enough that it could be understood by someone else the way that I understand it for myself. I have spent a lot of time relating my understandings of the underlying concepts in math, physics, philosophy, chemistry, evolution, biology, psychology, and anthropology. I have also taken many different types of psychoactive drugs in an effort to crawl out of the box, but to be honest I dont think that they have helped me more than hurt me, or at least so far. The good news is that I am learning how to use them more carefully by shutting out the ego, and the last few trips that I have gone on have revealed a lot to me. I have found that if I recognize the drugged mind as being incapable of traditional use and then decide not to use it but instead simply perceive it, psychoactive drugs can indeed be a teaching tool. There is truth to be found through drugs, but "drugland" (where you go when youre on a "trip") is not the only place that truth hides, so I have to broaden my search to places outside of "drugland" in order to see the bigger picture.

here is a quick version of my understanding of the truth:

a polygon with infinite sides approximates a circle, just like a polyhedra with infinite faces approximates a sphere. pi describes the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. it is impossible to find a precise value for pi, as its decimal places seem to go on infinitely.

when you describe the relationship between two points in a horizontal line on the cartesian coordinate plane, their relationship is easy to describe. every x value in that line has the same y value. for vertical lines, every y value has the same x value. this relationship is linear. describing the relationship between two points in a diagonal line is also easy - it depends on the value of the slope, which is simply a number that says that when you move x units horizontally, you move y units vertically. it is also a linear relationship.

if you define an n-sided polygon as having n linear relationships that make it up, (that is, a hexagon has 6 linear relationships between its verticies while an octagon has 8) then it is easier to see that a circle is a geometric definition of a system that contains infinitely many linear relationships.

everything in the universe is related and interrelated in an infinite amount of relationships. infinity is a concept that we cannot understand because the ego perceives its finiteness first and foremost. before we realized that earth was only a part of the solar system, we assumed that it was at the center and that everything revolved around it.

I watched this video the other day and I thought it was very well worded, though the background music is a little cheesy. Some of the related videos arent close to being as well worded as this one and some of them are completely confusing, so just watch this one :P

YouTube - Sri Bhagavan: What is Enlightenment

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Originally Posted by OnionsOfLove

There are a lot of things in this thread that I want to quote and scrutinize, but it would be a long and very critical post, so I wont do it.

There is one quote though, from the last few posts..



Insanity is only misDIRECTED enlightenment. And that misdirection, arguably, comes from ego battles within the self. It would be hard to misunderstand real enlightenment because when someone becomes enlightened they become so in-tune with the truth that they are able to communicate it to anyone they meet. In fact, a tendency to communicate your own enlightenment is probably a condition that comes with being enlightened. People who are insane dont often give advice of the quality that an enlightened person would be able to give. Insanity might be a different sort of enlightenment, but it would be a limited one relative to the traditional enlightenment.

and, to stay on topic..



A description of the truth as I have been allowed to understand it in my life would stretch across a bunch of posts and still come nowhere near to explaining the truth well enough that it could be understood by someone else the way that I understand it for myself. I have spent a lot of time relating my understandings of the underlying concepts in math, physics, philosophy, chemistry, evolution, biology, psychology, and anthropology. I have also taken many different types of psychoactive drugs in an effort to crawl out of the box, but to be honest I dont think that they have helped me more than hurt me, or at least so far. The good news is that I am learning how to use them more carefully by shutting out the ego, and the last few trips that I have gone on have revealed a lot to me. I have found that if I recognize the drugged mind as being incapable of traditional use and then decide not to use it but instead simply perceive it, psychoactive drugs can indeed be a teaching tool. There is truth to be found through drugs, but "drugland" (where you go when youre on a "trip") is not the only place that truth hides, so I have to broaden my search to places outside of "drugland" in order to see the bigger picture.

here is a quick version of my understanding of the truth:

a polygon with infinite sides approximates a circle, just like a polyhedra with infinite faces approximates a sphere. pi describes the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. it is impossible to find a precise value for pi, as its decimal places seem to go on infinitely.

when you describe the relationship between two points in a horizontal line on the cartesian coordinate plane, their relationship is easy to describe. every x value in that line has the same y value. for vertical lines, every y value has the same x value. this relationship is linear. describing the relationship between two points in a diagonal line is also easy - it depends on the value of the slope, which is simply a number that says that when you move x units horizontally, you move y units vertically. it is also a linear relationship.

if you define an n-sided polygon as having n linear relationships that make it up, (that is, a hexagon has 6 linear relationships between its verticies while an octagon has 8) then it is easier to see that a circle is a geometric definition of a system that contains infinitely many linear relationships.

everything in the universe is related and interrelated in an infinite amount of relationships. infinity is a concept that we cannot understand because the ego perceives its finiteness first and foremost. before we realized that earth was only a part of the solar system, we assumed that it was at the center and that everything revolved around it.

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Haha I like that, very true, very true. To adress the first part, let me propose a scenario: A man of average intelligence is privy to a small glimpse on an overwhelmingly bigger picture. His mind percieves it, and grapples with trying to understand it. In the process, he loses touch with aspects of reality, in particular, his ability to effectively communicate with other human beings, as his obsession with attempting to understand infinity overloads his brain. This is but one example of how I believe one can be subject to enlightenment, yet appear to the rest of the world to be completely insane. I am not saying this man is enlightened, but then again, there are perhaps an infinite number of levels of enlightenment.

As far as my quote "Insanity is misunderstood enlightenment", I was referring to misunderstanding of the outside perceiver, not the enlightened. Perhaps in achieving enlightenment, the man lost a part of his old self that allowed him to effectively communicate with us, but allowed him to communicate with higher planes of existence. I really have no clue myself, this is only speculation, but misunderstanding and misdirection are related as well. So in actuality I am not disagreeing with anything you say.