moore has no substance in any of his movies...Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
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moore has no substance in any of his movies...Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
The answer is that Americans should be able to buy their own health insurance. The way to do this is to reduce taxes by lowering all the social & corporate welfare, no more foreign aid, and stop other wasteful spending of the taxpayers' money.Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
New York State has heath insurance available for everyone, based on income. Years ago, there were periods when I was uninsured and couldn't afford it. This would have helped me, but I don't think they had it yet.
Health insurance is very expensive, but if I needed it, I'd buy it myself.
This shows how insubstantial your own understanding is. For one thing, they're not movies. They're documentaries. And they're actually quite substantial. If you ever watched one with an open mind and looked at all the topics it covers, you'd notice that. Even if you disagreed with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by higher4hockey
Which, of course, you would.
But 8 out of 10 Americans can't afford to do so. You might be able to, but most other folks cannot, even if they spent every dollar they had to pay for the insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
That's the point. Our health care system and its costs are completely out of control. And they're getting more and more that way with every passing year. As much as it sounds great to say get rid of welfare spending, eliminate needless waste of tax dollars, and abolish foreign aid, such changes wouldn't begin to tackle the real problem, which is what Moore is pointing out. Our for-profit health care system, with Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Hospital Corporations, and Big Organized Medicine running the show, is absurdly out of financial reach to the people who need it most, even the hard-working ones. All the tax cuts and conservation of federal money in the world isn't going to change a problem that exists within a privatized, big-business system.
can I get an amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
Rudy Giuliani is in favor of people buying their own health insurance, with the help of "a major tax deduction" and health savings plans.
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"What the Democrats suggested on this stage two nights ago was Socialized medicine.........The reality of it is that we need a free market......Free market principles are the only things that reduce cost and improve quality. Socialized medicine will ruin medicine in the United States". Rudolph Guiliani
Video
Giuliani 2008: Rudy Giuliani: Health Care
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Rudy as Mayor of New York City:
??Between 1993, when Giuliani took office, to 2001 when he left, murders dropped by an astonishing 66%. Rape went down by 45%, robbery by decreased 67%, and aggravated assault, larceny, and motor vehicle theft each decreased by at least 39%.?
Rudi Judiani; cross dressing queen of right wing nazism. ,Past: policeman,arrrg, prosecutor,arrrrg, Mayor of NYC with mob affiliations, (never proven) arrrrg. When prompted by knowledgeable officials to move his headquarters after the first attempt on the twin towers, he ignored them and left them in them. Married three times, he has been accused by NYC city firefighters of buldozing remains at the TT site. NYC firefighters protest him at every political rally. If you want the real police state, he's your guy!!! He foams at the mouth with fear tactics, trying to scare citizens into more loss of their freedoms. A vote for Judiani is a Vote for Gulags in every city, with torture for every citizen. If you're that scaired, maybe living in a cave in Tora-Bora is the cure, they can't find Osama!Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Of course he's in favor of that. He's a well-to-do, Republican man who will never have to worry where his health insurance comes from--or his tax cuts. He doesn't see any further than his own ability to pay or care about the millions of of people who cannot, and his never-interfere-in-big-business Republican mentality wouldn't dream of actually tackling the real problem of the profit-mongering in Big Insurance/Big Pharma/Big Medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
This makes an awfully good sound byte. And folks who are intellectually incapable of listening past sound bytes will certainly buy that, which is what he's counting on. It's the same right-wing scare-tactic misinformation that's been bandied about for years by people who're invested in keeping the outlandish profit system the way it is now.Quote:
"What the Democrats suggested on this stage two nights ago was Socialized medicine.........The reality of it is that we need a free market......Free market principles are the only things that reduce cost and improve quality. Socialized medicine will ruin medicine in the United States". Rudolph Guiliani
The threat that "socialized medicine" is going to ruin health care is more of the same. Making health care available and affordable to people in the other civilized countries of the world has done nothing to impair medical quality. Here in our country, we'll still have our state-of-the-art hospitals. We'll still have medical research and development. We'll still be graduating and training physicians and other professionals through the same medical schools and with the same stringent standards. We'll still have unbeaten pharmaceutical products and research. That's not going to change.
The truth is nothing even remotely socialized has yet been proposed, and we already know that the system we'll have to employ in this country will be a cooperative private-public system because it's going to have to use the existing medical infrastructure to a large extent. We can't possibly completely abolish medicine as we know and have enjoyed it because it's too intrinsic to our current economy. It's 16% of our GDP.
Right now, free market principles are precisely what have our health care costs spiraling further and further out of people's reach with each passing year. Those costs are currently rising nearly 10 percent per annum, and with each passing year, that percentage will grow higher and higher. The few of us who can still afford health insurance now may no longer be able to in just three or four more years if we continue on our current course.
Rudy needs to do lots more reading and lots less fear-mongering.
birdgirl~yeah i called it a movie, yipeee....big deal. moore is full of shit and thats that.
You're one of those people who needs to be real careful about throwing this phase around.Quote:
Originally Posted by higher4hockey
For obvious reasons.
If our health care system is so great you might think the rest of the world would try something similar. They don't. The market has spoken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickstrings84
I already have cancer and my parents worked 2 freakin' jobs to get the insurance to cover me. And why should I have to wait for my appointments? So everything is "fair"? Screw that!
I don't want to sound harsh here, but you're not really dealing with reality. Did you say your "parents" worked 2 jobs to provide you with health insurance and in the same breath say it wouldn't be fair to wait two weeks for an appointment. My God, talk about a spoiled brat. Wait untill you have to fend for your self and find medical on your own. Now that you've had cancer. you'll probably have a hard time finding anyone to insure you. That may be when the light comes on, hey I'm un-insureable and my cancer may come back. Then maybe the chance of a national health care system that wouldn't discriminate against cancer survivors might seem viable, one paid for by taxes that are collected from everyone, you may have to wait a couple a weeks, but they won't be dumping you in the streets like they're doing in LA right now. BTW, I'm pretty sure your parents have to pay excessive amounts to insure you as a cancer survivor, and when you hit 21, it's bye-bye insurance. They'll drop you like a hot potato. Insurance companies study their risks, and when it is great, they don't insure, or if they do, it is priced out of reach. I wish you well and a long and successful life. My wifes lifelong friend has cancer and we've watched her waste away. We're taking her on a colorado mountain vacation next mo. Might be her last.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
Doesn't seem fair to me that you should need 2 parents working 2 jobs just to pay the insurance. I really dont' get people's extremist views "it's gotta be all private, socialism is the devil!", or "It's gotta be all public, privitization is completely unjust and only favors the rich!". There are countries in Europe with a free public system, and a private system for those who can pay, and they rank top in the world. Is it really such a crazy idea to give people some choices? Those choices are why a socialized healthcare system is supportable and you can get in at a decent time, because the private sector is picking up the slack and getting the people who can pay out of the line that the poor are waiting in.
I used to work for the Mayo system and I'll tell ya, before ANY of my tax dollars are put into that system they'd have to do some internal clean-up to controll costs first! $465 for a cloth swivel chair, no arms, that you see receptionists sit on. Over $2,500 for a leather chair for the doctors offices.
One of the directors in the facility I worked for got moved into a newly remodelled area.......NOT good enough! She had to have the carpet changed, different flo lights because she didn't care for the design of the ones that were just installed. Another area bought a $1000 coffee table for their lounge....they did a remodel of the area a month later and had no room for the table. Instead of throwing it out in the trash I convinced them to let me take it home in my car!
If these people spent money out their own budgets like they do on a daily basis they'd all be bankrupt!
Have a good one!:s4:
But when the private sector has to pay those exhorbitant costs themselves, prices for treatment will have to go up anyway to maintain the profit margin and still handle administrative costs. I can confidently say here in Canada we're not all going broke, and those below the poverty line don't have to pay any contributions to the medical system (with extremely low taxation for those still making very low wages).
The problem still remains, if you can't afford health insurance, or health insurance for an unexpectedly high-expense treatment, should you just be left to die? Or would it be more acceptable to be in debt for life so high you can never pay it off?
medicinal works on cars and I'm sure he'd agree that before you do a fancy paint job you get rid of the rust. The medical system has alot of rust to get sandblasted before we even think of trying to pretty it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdevious
Have a good one!:s4:
Look, I never said the rich couldn't have private health care. My own Dr. decided to semi retire and gave all his HMO and Medicare patients the choice, either pay up 3,000 a person per year or find another DR. Obviously I had to leave and find another Dr., but his wealthy patients could enjoy his expertise. He was the most favorite Dr. I ever had, but facts is facts and I couldn't afford 3,000 bucks above and beyond what I'm already paying. The wealthy will have a class of medical that is better than most of the proletariate, but with a public system, every citizen would be covered. I also suggest a card, not unlike a credit card that seems to be hard to duplicate, for every citizen so the illegals would have to go back to Mexico for treatment, and once back there we could close the gate,~LOL~Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law', because law is often but the tyrant??s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."- Thomas Jefferson
First of all, it's not against the law to travel to Cuba, it's only against the law to spend U.S. money there. There are many exceptions to the embargo and legitimate media/journalism is one of them. The Constitution says we have Freedom of Press. There is no way for politicians with their heads up their asses to change that.
As far as health care is concerned - health care is a right in any civilized society. (I wonder how much health care we could provide if the "War on Drugs" funds were diverted to heath clinics instead?) It is obscene and immoral that health insurance companies are allowed to operate. There should be one or two totally non-profit corps collecting insurance premiums and paying claims. Without the profit to the insurance companies, health insurance would be affordable to the majority of people. And that's not socialized medicine, it's just common sense.
Pharmacuetical Companies should be told one thing: "If you want to do business in the USA, then you charge US the same prices you charge in other countries."
Mind if I steal that quote for my signature?Quote:
Originally Posted by GotWake88
:thumbsup:I guess not.
im not going to insult you for thinking what you think. i'd appreciate it if you'd show me the same respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
I am anything but a spoiled brat and my job covers me and when I get married in 2 years John's will cover me too. My parents haven't covered me for a while now. And my insurance company pays for all my tests and my meds. Ive never paid for a damn thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
Nope, not a spoiled brat at all. No wonder your fiancee wants a long engagement.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebgirl420
Dude, you don't know squat about her situation, lay off a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by andruejaysin
WTF? Im the one who wants to wait for after college. Its just the responsible thing to do. Besides, you dont know ANY of the shit ive been through. You wouldn't know hard times if it bit you in your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by andruejaysin
white people dont have hard times
no offence, just tellin the truth
^ Are you serious?!
yes
Thats insane to think that! Theres all kinds of white people with awful problems. Like disease and money problems. There are more white people in the U.S. AND Canada anyway! Just look at how many are drug addicts and are on welfare!
you must not know anything about the natives in the us and canada
The natives? Like the native americans? B/c I dont doubt for a second that they have been through the worst shit. But you cant just say one race doesnt have any problems. EVERYONE has problems.
Suck my balls Triple-P. It's assholes like that keep racism alive in the world; there's always some group of people that are deemed acceptable to hate on just for their race. I don't give a shit if it's whitey or blacks or whatever, HUMANS suffer and that's just the nature of life. Making stupid-ass generalizations doesn't change the situations of individuals.
oh shit I'm somewhat genetically related to 200 year old slavers. Don't I owe you some money?
possibly
if you muthafuckas gave us more than 5 bucks on treaty day you wouldnt
"Us" muthafuckas? Don't know who you mean man, I'm just some broke white guy with a fucked up cripple body, I'm not givin' money to anybody. Guilt by association is an illusion man, you can lump everybody into their race but when it comes right down to it, you and me got nothing to do all the slavery and poverty and injustice bullshit. Don't let color decide your place in the world. If you wanna focus on something, we're both Canadian so lets focus on that. One Canadian to another, all the best to ya'. Peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple-P
This thread is CLOSED! Triple-T.....enjoy your accomodations at Club Gitmo for CC abusers.
With ALL the personal attacks in this thread people are lucky this is the only person on vacation. M. Moore just seems to bring out the hate in people.
Have a good one!:jointsmile: