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<irony>That's what I call a clear, concise and well thought out text PureEvil.</irony> You have posted now and then and I've refrained from replying to you because you were never making sense, now you do for the first time, and you're on the offensive - was all of the above too much for you ?
If you believe in god that's fine, but unless you've got something of value to add to our discussion, open a shell and cat it to /dev/null -- it never gets enough.
Too much for me? honestly it was all just drivel that I really didnt read..I'm trying to help you for I feel terrible for the tormented souls such as yours that may very well go through life blind.
So you bump in here, don't follow the flow of our discussion, accuse everyone who has a different point of view of being a retarded idiot, while making a fool of yourself. (had you read our discussion, you would know by now that no one is trying to prove that god doesn't exist, as we've already reached the consensus that it cannot be disproven).
Not happy with that, you still feel sorry for some of us, and in a glimpse of supreme arrogance, you claim to know better than ourselves what WE think.
Despite all that, you have not made a single valid point to defend what you believe in, other than something comparable to "I was high on LSD and I saw a 8-legged cat with a crown and a divine scepter, so now I believe him"
So please, and again, cat - > /dev/null
Human language is pointless darth, you could speak for hours and hours about outter things and it will all just appear as mindless ranting trying to prove somthing that isnt true...all that is there is blah blah blah blah blah blah I'm refusing salvation blah blah blah blah..*sigh..
Like I said sorry that im disturbing your ego..and all you can do is try to disturb mine in retaliation, but mine is very far out of your reach. Some of the half sceptics like Poly get to me sometimes, but thats cause they acctually have somthing slightly itelligent to say from thier own thought, not just stating a bunch of factual outter things.
You're assuming this is about ego, and you're assuming I want to retaliate.
You're wrong on both.
I would have to be at the same level you're in (insanity) to even attempt to have an argument with someone who claims language is worthless.
Pass That Shit, I'd very much like to hear back from you and know if you could extract anything meaningful from my reply. Cheers.
Until you see a slight glimmering of truth, everything for you is about ego.
Ha I have that quote framed in my bathroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by afghooey
I think god begins at the pupil, the window to our soul. We are all interlaced spiritually from one thing we all have, Eyes (animals, plants and microorganisms all have eyes, if not, other ways of sensing the world around them) Eyes are the building blocks of life....
The third eye is the 6th chakra. As it begins to activate and open, it is a common experience that one sees an eye, or eyes, looking back at them. Your perspective in, dreams, of colors, your personal life and relationships, will be seen through a 'new light.' You are moving into a higher frequency that enables you to expand your consciousness and see reality on many levels and dimensions. This can be a quantum leap in perception and can be life changing as you discard patterns that no longer work in higher frequency. Your total perception changes in this acceleration of time.
The opening of the eye, is symbolic of a time of awakening, the evolution of consciousness -- the activation of your DNA = 11:11 digital alarm. The opening of the eye, Iris, Isis, I, can be the physical eye or what is called the 'third eye', which looks up and out, has a lens and is the pineal gland.
The camera slows down the action allowing us to experience events as linear in nature, when indeed they are not. Exploring in linear time allows us to experience emotions through an electromagnetic field, duality, polarity, love vs. fear. We see balance as we awaken and remember that we are souls sparks, the twinkling lights you see, who are in a physical form that is evolving back to its original creation, pole shifts of consciousness, earth changes both physical and as metaphors.
There is much symbology linked with the image of the 'eye', all linking to the eye as a metaphor for the source of creation, God, Eye of God. :jointsmile:
[quote=PureEvil760] I know for a fact God is real, because God is everything God is every bird, every leaf, every bug, it is your spit, your tears, every single thing is God. Now ur going to question how I know... I have had divine experiences which I cannot explain, but it has givin me 100% factual evidence that God is real.
This is wise, i have also had these divine experiences, and i can see god in every bird, leaf, plants, or pupil of any animal. We are all interconnected spiritually is my belief.
I just want to know why everyone cares so much? If you die and end up in hell, that sucks. If you die and end up in heaven, thats great. If you die and cease to have awareness, awesome. If you die and becoem a ghost or some sort of apparition, cool. The idea of Gods and stuff is created to gives us a sense of protection, purpose, and well being. A lot of humans view things alike, I assume it's our instincts. But for those of us who have different views(which would be everyone I suposse), a lot of stuff cotradicts itself. Everyone experiences shit in their own way, and interperets in their own way as well. I personally believe we should all just accept eachothers expereinces/perceptions because there is no way to prove them false/true. So go ahead, and believe what you want to believe. You will never know the real truth, except maybe when you die. And I guess since the truth sets you free, death sets you free. And sorry i'm not good at putting stuff into words, my thoughts are really disorganized.
When that does happen then science will become the "new christanity" don't you watch south park
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Scanner Darkly
ok, to follow up my posts...
scientifically prove that thought exists.
scientifically prove that i am thinking.
and most of all, scientifically prove the source and nature of thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf
Go read a biology textbook. Once you understand a few key basic principles, move on to Psychology.
eh, i dont happen to hany any suck books on hand, care to help a stoner out? lol
i really dont know what you're getting at though.
Hell-FAKE, experienced astral projectors have explained what hell is in multiple books. Heaven-FAKE same deal. Ghosts are just imprints of dead humans, they have no real consiousness. Saying you will never know the truth is a false statement, if you search for the truth you will find it, the only place to find it is within yourself. Its true we cannot prove our own spiritual experiences, but the people that have them are the ones who look inward instead of outward like 99% of humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt the Funk
half-skeptic? Half? I'll have you know PureEvil, that I am 100% skeptic... I just happen to realise the limitations on that particular mode of inquiry and (hopefully) avoid making a dogmatic ass of myself quite as much as some of the other skeptics...
And Darth. Cute example. I don't have a gun so you'll have to provide me with something else. Personally, what I'm really wondering is how you know the axiom:
"believing in something because you were told to, without having evidence is bad"
is true? You spit that out like it's some straight muthafuckin a priori shit, but I'd hoped that you'd recognise the incredible hypocrisy of your statement. Where's the evidence?
Could you point out the hypocrisy ?
I've pointed out to you one example of how believing something because you were told to would have ended up negatively affecting you. I can do it with pretty much any other situation (getting in the middle of the road, jumping out of the window head first, get in the bear cage @ the local zoo, let yourself burn, you pick).
If I (or any1 else, even a "divine" voice in your head when you're high) asked you to do any of the above, do you think you're better off with faith or with rational thought ?
If you answered faith, then we have nothing else to discuss.
But hey, if you need a bigger example, just ask yourself if the 9/11 hijackers would have had the balls to kill themselves if they seriously did not believe there was an eternal life of joy with i-dunno-how-many virgins waiting for them in heaven. Now you tell me that is not bad and is a fucking hypocrisy :)
poly i said half cause i know you believe in some spiritual things, not necessarily God.
Darth, would you like to live in fear or walk in love?, I already see you made the choice of fear so I'll discuss stuff with you if you want but u got some pretty big false attachments with ur self. U said before i was tripping off acid or somthing, no I have never done acid only drugs i ever did was weed and coke, and i was not on any drugs accept maybe nicotine at the time of my divine experiences..and no there was no "voices" involved in any of them.
Also after a couple of these experiences I felt better than I ever felt in my life which is very hard evidence for me.
Im sorry your an idiot.
One was seeing the Holy Violet Flame, do a search for it on google and u will see im not the only one that has seen it.
PureEvil, I recommend the nearest mental institution to you.
You are not even able to distinguish "imagine you took LSD and you saw something" from "you took LSD".
You "live in fear or in love" makes no sense, as you make the utterly absurd assertion that believing in god == love and not believing == fear. Any mentally sane person wouldn't expect to say "this means this and that means that and you're this because of that" without making a clear case of why it is so.
And I don't for one moment doubt you felt better after the so-said experiences, same as an heroin addict feels better after the dose. Does that make heroin good, loveable, or correct? No.
Again, find a mental institution. There is still time for you.
Should you not want to get yourself treated, then at least stop chatting with us idiots,retarded,not enlightened, dumb, language-loving, rational people, because your mental diarrhea only makes you look a little more insane.
You are much more insane than I ever was, you are far away from the truth..just keep running man live ur life in fear if you want, Id like to see you turn around but thats probably not going to happen. Why do you choose suffering over eternal joy? it makes no sence to me.
Darth, I know 2 year olds that say 700% more intelligent shit than you, im not just saying that to piss you off, its true.
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
Consider this before you judge, PureEvil.
No one is going to come closer to enlightenment from insult-slinging tactics.
it makes perfect sense in the strictly black and white world of pseudo-spirituality. religious thought resides in the realm of absolutes. a thing or person is either good or evil, shades of grey cannot exist where a divine force has final say over all of the conditions of existence. the exact terminology may vary, but the message remains the same. you are either for us or you are against us, you are either of the chosen or you are doomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by darth stoner
:beatdeadhorse: this may very well become my favorite smilie for this forum
Hehe, i get what ur trying to say, but the last sentence is false, people's egos need to feel threatened..im not trying to attack the "person" im just attacking thier ego.Quote:
Originally Posted by afghooey
the ego is fueled by attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PureEvil760
it can only learn on it's own.
you can lead a horse to water....
but you cant get over how huge his balls are... er i mean you cant make him drink.
The more ego gets threatened and confused the weaker it becomes. I only had spiritual experiences after suffering greatly for years.
I dont know much about Buddah but I have read that he was in a state of great suffering for many years also.
I'm going to have to agree with Stoner Shadow Wolf on this one...
Not only can you not make a horse drink, if you try to force him to he'll be even more reluctant to do so. A friendly approach can do just as much damage to someone's ego, IMO, and probably more. If you can persuade someone to reevaluate their own beliefs, the rest of the barriers will come down with time. But I'm afraid you're not going to persuade anyone by calling them an unenlightened idiot. In fact, you're likely to drive them away from even considering what you might have to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureEvil760
that was, i do believe, a conscious decision, however.
nobody was intentionally influencing him to make the decisions he made and go through with the suffering.
he made the decision on his own, it's what he strove for.
What you fail to realize is that you're not attacking anyone's ego (at least successfully). This thread is not about egos, it's about reason and logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by PureEvil760
If you want people to even take you seriously, then you should be able to defend your beliefs, instead of just saying "it's true and you're an idiot". Doing that is considered a weak defense and is a really petty way to defend what you believe in.
So far the atheists have shown that while we cannot disprove god -- the same way nobody can disprove tooth fairies and unicorns -- that is not a good reason to believe. If it was so, then I would believe in unicorns too, just because you cannot disprove them. We've shown that the current scientific theories are more than enough to account for an universe without a god. We've provided links to sources where you can learn more about these theories. If science is good enough to build nuclear bombs and airplanes, spaceships, and pretty much everything you see around you, don't you think it's just a little bit arrogant to say it cannot be right about religion ?
Look back at your posts, how have you defended your point of view ? By insulting the people who have defended theirs with palpable evidence and saying "this is how things are. why ? because I say so. and you're an idiot for not thinking like me".
It's because of all the above that I actually feel sorry for you. You will NEVER change your mind, not even if all the evidence is piled in front of you. I would change mine, if I was given evidence. I don't say all the scientific theories are correct or that we know everything, that's the information we have to work with now. It's just like evolution, you need to be wrong most of the time in order to come up with something right.
The proof that science is in the good path ?
http://www.humanistsofutah.org/images/PaleBlueDot.jpg
^^ earth as seen by Voyager 1, about 4 billion miles away, taken in 1990.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1...e_347_ys_4.jpg
^^ sunset on mars, taken by the mars rovers
For me, the above is beautiful. Only through science have we been able to see how insignificant our home planet is (while some religious people STILL believe, amazingly, that the earth IS the center of the universe to this day), and only through science have we been able to see the sunset on alien planets.
Science has shown to people that want to see it things that are indeed beautiful. Religion is about believing something that cannot be seen is beautiful.
All bold my own.Quote:
Originally Posted by darth stoner
And in addition, I guess I have to explain... It's hypocritical to assert that people need evidence to believe things, but then provide none. We're all just supposed to take your word on the matter I suppose, but honestly you're not that convincing.
I suspect your definition of religion if very different from that of most religious people. And that's sad, because you think you're proving something, but actually you're completely missing the point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
I didn't say you should believe my sentence, I simple said believing without evidence is bad. You have a mind to decide on your own, if you think I was trying to force that down on you, then you've misinterpreted my words and failed to understand the point I was making.
If you believe without evidence, then:
- Unicorns exist.
- Fairies exist.
- Angels exist.
- Mars has complex life hiding from us.
- The cookie monster is also hiding, but he certainly exists.
- Zeus is the real god and is having a really nice laugh at the whole western religion thing.
Are all valid examples. If you say believing without evidence is good, then the only possible logical outcome is to say the above sentences are not ridiculous. Do you agree they are not ?
Your stove example demonstrates an interesting point tho, ironically there's also a scientific explanation for that.
As childs, we're programmed to believe whatever our parents tell us. That's how we manage to stay alive during these years where we'd otherwise jump off a cliff to see what happens. You can override this programming (curiosity), but if you think back, you had a strange feeling that it would be better to trust what your parents told you.
Sadly, that's why religion still thrives after so much time. Children are indocrinated at an early age and the genetic programming tells them to believe whatever their parents are telling them.
define:religion - Google SearchQuote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
"Hypocrisy is the act of condemning another person, where the stated basis for the criticism is the breach of a rule which also applies to the critic. A person engaged in hypocrisy is called a hypocrite."
How can you be so sure of what I'm thinking I'm proving ?
I didn't presume anything, you're taking my words out of context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Now reflect and think why you've never seen a buddhist or a christian guy taking two planes and stuffing them on two towers. No, religion isn't the only possible answer, but why do we only see such things coming from islam?
Because they really believe what their magic book says, and in their twisted minds, there are really virgins and eternal joy waiting.
well i believe in God for the simple that its impossible for us to NOT have a creator......we have a creator period.
If your reasoning is "everything has a creator", then you must agree that the creator has a creator. And the creator of the creator also has a creator. And the creator of the creator of the creator has a creator. etc.
That is not a good reason, chino.
Evolution by natural selection provides a good and concise explanation about the evolution of species, without the need for the supernatural/divine.
Natural selection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As always, all bold my own.Quote:
Originally Posted by darth stoner
You're free to care about what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
If you got burned, you would have learned not to touch the stove anyway. Humans, like other animals, also learn by trial and error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Please, do invalidate what I said from a logical standpoint, instead of attempting to nullify it through subjective words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
By saying they think it's a sacrifice worth their lives, you're agreeing with what I said. Would they think that way if they didn't believe in Islam ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
As for the monks, the keywords are burned themselves. You're also agreeing with me there, as you've again pointed out the differences in actions caused by the difference in beliefs. (burn themselves as a remarkable act of protest // explode two airplanes on another country, killing thousands).
I don't view Islam as an adversary. I only feel sorry for them, because hopefully western civilization will reach scientific enlightenment this century, and I can't possibly see Islam doing the same (if you don't believe in islam and you are in islam, you'll get killed).
Be very aware that they see the Qu'ran as the word of god, and the qu'ran says they should kill infidels (unbelievers, you and me included).
I didn't understand the "us vs them", perhaps you expected that from me instead and thought about it like that? I can denote this pattern on your earlier texts too. Apparently you expect me to be some kind of person I am not, your answers look a bit premeditated. (this is an observation, not an attack)
At the same time I dont really give a shit about what other people do.Quote:
Originally Posted by afghooey
bold mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by darth stoner