i would not serve a pregnant woman. ever.
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i would not serve a pregnant woman. ever.
what she does to her unborn child or herself isn't my responsibility, nor do i really care about either.
as said earlier, if it started coming around to multiple drinks, i might, say something, but i still wouldn't completely refuse...
look at it logically, you don't serve her, you're more than likely just gonna piss her off... she's gonna go to another bar or a liquor store or something and get her alcohol, only now, she's aggervated and more than likely going to drink even more then she would have if i had just served her... and might even do something stupid like get in a fight cuz she's piss drunk and aggervated.
seriously, anyone that's ever spent a good deal of time around a pregnant woman knows, you don't fucking tell them no... they don't understand the word.... you say no, you're opening a 30 minute bitch fest, and guess what... after she's done she's gonna get what she wanted in the first place anyways.
I'm going to bartending school in about a year, this situation made me think.
In conclusion to that, I've made my decision.
No, I wouldn't serve the stupid bitch.
There are other bars and other bartenders. I'm not going to waste my time with a drunk pregnant women and I'm not going to be at risk to be sued when the baby comes out with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. While it won't be my fault the dumbass drank, it's not mcdonald's fault the fatass ate. No reason to risk it.
While a part of my motherly instincts cares for the baby-to-be, the rest of me doesn't. I just want to keep my ass innocent.
UNLESS I would get fired.
That might be a different story.
Edit:
I would have to be 100 percent sure she's pregnant. Only after the words "im pregnant" or "the baby's due on..." come out of her mouth would I rethink serving her.
Dammit, I was perfectly happy being a non-posting lurker of the forums. But y'all made me join just because of this thread.
This is not an issue of morals. This is an issue about truth and health. If you serve a pregnant woman alcohol, you are damaging her child. Period. Nobody can argue that. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is not a debate between Christians and Atheists. It is a cold hard medical fact that C2H5OH will permanently damage the brain of an unborn, developing child. If a woman, clearly pregnant, asked me to serve her a drink (even a single beer) I would refuse and give her a glass of water/sprite/rootbeer/milk on the house. No manager would fire me. Hell, if she got on my case for not giving her a drink, my manager would probably ask her to leave the establishment.
In case you're wondering, I'm not "pro-life" or "anti-abortion". If a woman makes a mistake and cannot support a child in her life, I fully believe that she has the right to get an abortion in the first trimester. But if she is planning on carrying the baby to full term, I will not be an accomplice to brain damage. She can be a menace to the human race somewhere else.
if i knew she was really pregnant, hell no i wouldnt serve her. wouldnt care if my job was on the line, or if i owned the bar and it was in danger, my conscience is likely to eat me up alive. like i had a chance to make a good impact, but i didnt. now she could get drunk anywhere else, but atleast it isnt on my shoulders.
Exactly, the question was about conscience. I personally couldn't just 'not give a shit' about a soon to be human and continue my job. And come on lol, a bartender is not the most serious job in the world. Usually a side job anyway...and you're not going to get fired for not serving a $5 beer to a pregnant woman (I would hope it would be closer to the other way around). Besides Slip's point of her getting mad...some dumb arguments IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoda
I'm sorry, but it is not her body, it is her childs body. Her child should have the same opportunity you and I have, to be productive, useful members of society. if you knew anyone who had F.A.S. you wouldn't dismiss her actions so easily. It pains me to death to see see the havoc wreaked upon people I know because of F.A.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
My best friend's uncle supposedly have it (it's what the doctors think atleast), and while I've not seen him, I've heard stories and it's terrible, seriously.
Yeah, this is what I was going to say. If it was her body alone that she was damaging, let the bitch do what she wants. But just because she maybe a dumb bitch who doesn't know any better and decided to have children even though she is dumb doesn't mean the child deserves to be punished through FAS.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfvgcfvg
freudian slip?Quote:
Originally Posted by shaitanx
but if someone really wanted to take it this far:Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
you can get in trouble for leaving a child alone in a car, at home, or leaving guns in the house where they're accesible to kids....i believe its "reckless child endangerment"...
and you aren't legally allowed to abort a fetus after a certain point...at which it becomes "an actual human" not just an embryo or w/e they wanna refer to it is.
so IF she's pregnant past the "point of no return", i.e. its considered its own being and cannot be aborted, and she's drinking....one could argue reckless child endangerment...
bit of a stretch, law-wise....but i bet theres a damned good lawyer out there who could make it stick...
i would serve her. it is her right to drink responsibly. personally i find it wrong but on the other hand any woman who is comfortable in a bar pregnant and has the balls to drink responsibly...like having a beer or a glass of wine or two shows confidence. we need more confident woman out there.
I'd serve her, but if she wanted too much for my liking i'd stop. I'm not going to help fuck up someones life for a job...
I'd serve her.
It's not my business as to whether she's drinking whilst pregnant or not.
She may not even be pregnant.
And I am a firm believer in that once you're in the later stages of pregnancy (so...when she is noticeably pregnant), one drink will not harm anyone.
If she kept drinking, I might make a comment.
But if she's not going to care about having a drink in the first place, then my talking to her won't make any difference.
if the woman is drinking in bar's
then she's probaby drinking at home and other place's
id dont believe she can sue some 1 for her child haveing f.a.c.
i worked in bar's 4 year's started when i was 17
i can not remember any pregnat women even coming in2 my bar
so luckily i never had 2 deal with that sorta thing
i dont think id serve her if i knew she was pregnant
i dont know if 1 can get fired if the woman complained tho
this is a hard 1 ,4 sure
her rite's and ur moral judgment
just do what ur heart tell's u
How the hell did I go from refusing to serve alcohol to a pregnant woman to being a racist? That's the worst counterargument I've ever heard and trust me, that is saying something on these boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
I'm not passing judgement. I'm personally choosing to refuse service. The lush can go get as hammered as she likes in some other bar with some of you more shady bartenders.
For that matter, when do you draw the line with serving just regular drunks? If someone's on their 35th shot are going to pour them their next? Bearing in mind that you might be liable if this person dies during the night...
The last thing I'd need as a bartender is some "developmentally challenged" kid sueing me for everything I had 15 years down the road because I let his mom get drunk one night oh so long ago.
hell no!
No because of possible liability issues. Go somewhere else!
exactly! What an absord question. If you are pregnant WTF are you doing wanting a drink anyway. If you cant control yourself, even when your pregnant, then you have a fucking problem. Your willing to risk that shit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
I wouldn't serve her, I wouldn't get fired, if i did i wouldn't care because i don't wanna be a bar tender...
I think the main point that has come all these responses are that 1 drink is acceptable but if they were having more than 1 would make people think twice about it,
Anyone who would deny her the right to consume a legal beverage belongs in the Bush White House.
and this is directed to the guy on the first page and any other person who said no>>>Who are you to deny anyone anything just because you happen to think it would be bad for her? Are you an expert? Are you her conscience? Are you anyone other than someone special who wants to be empowered to the point of controling another's personal life and choices?
If so, what the hell are you doing here???
I've gieven lines to pregenant women....
Its their choice. My conscience would go as far as to cut her after I've seen her drink her fourth. It would be unproffessional to refuse to do your job, but, as a bartender, you have to authority to stop serving anyone at any time. I've worked at a few bars and done this more than once to pregnant women. I never liked seeing them drunk. I just tell them I'm done serving them for the night. I never made them get up and leave, but I've broken a few bottles when Mister Slick would try to sneak his knocked-up lady a drink after I cut her off.
You also have to take to note that, if you don't serve the lady, aren't they just gonna go somewhere and buy liqour or beer or go to another bar that will just think shes fat? At least I got to be responsible for them for periods of time, rather than force them to go somewhere where I have 0 say over the proceedings.
I honestly couldn't care whether she or her baby lives or dies. I'll feed her liquor 'till her liver quits so long as she keeps paying for it. Call me cold hearted, but I don't give a damn about strangers.
Well... if i worked in a bar, i would be fully conscious i would be serving poison for people, pregnant or not. I would be fully conscious people could die by driving drunk, commit crimes, and do all the shit drunk people do.
So, if my conscience would let me work in a bar, that would be cause i would not give a damn about people. In this case, i would serve anybody, pregnant or not.
Anyway, i hope never to work in such places...
I would serve her. No doubt about it. If she isnt bothered by the possible outcome, thats her fault.
No, I would not. Similarly, if I were a kickboxing teacher, I would not teach a pregnant lady how to kickbox.
I never called you a racist, i just gave an example of refusal and civil rights being obstructed. so it was a little drastic, but im sure you got the point, so dont act like you didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
and yes you are passing judgement. any refusal has some sort of scrutiny and judgement being made, dont make me bring up how the mind works and how you decide things.
as far as how much is too much, i.e. your 35th shot example..bartenders are trained to know when to cut someone off. and if youre serving someone that much, you should know how much theyve had and therefore, should have the intuition or know-how to know when someone has had enough.
That's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Nope, I wouldn't serve her either. I don't serve fetus' and 2nd or 3rd trimester babies.
What she does at home isn't my issue. What she wants to make me do is my issue.
Babies don't necessarly want to get drunk. Mommy should respect that.
Refusing her would be acting like our very own government who denys us weed and thinks they know what's better for us.
If weed caused something as awful as FAS, this might be a valid argument...Quote:
Originally Posted by make it legal
The government has little to no real research to back up their claims about the harm of weed. The harm of alcohol on fetuses is VERY well-proven and well-documented, and is more of a danger to society then weed really is at all.
just because they dont know the harm of it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by vileoxidation
who knows the effects of ganja on an unborn child?
Quote:
Originally Posted by make it legal
We are adults and make choices.
Can the unborn baby? Maybe it DOESN'T WANT FAS??? Ever think of that?
No one seems to get that refusing to serve her isn't a matter of judgment, personal, moral, religious or otherwise--or even an infringement of her freedoms to drink. If we had a big issue with personal, moral or religious judgment, it's unlikely we'd be in the drink-serving business in the first place.
The pregnant lady can drink all she wants to at home or in her car or wherever. Those of us who've said we'd refuse to serve her are simply saying we'd refuse to do so because we understand liability. Nothing more than that. We also understand some fairly basic, easy medical science about developing fetuses. No one with any sense would serve an infant a drink. Or a preemie baby. Well, if we served their mother before they were born, we'd essentially be doing the same thing. We live in a plantiff's-action-crazed country and legal system. Most of us were simply looking at this from the standpoint of business owners trying to protect our business interests and also hoping not to damage a baby.
Halfassed, whether or not you believe Polymirize got your point or not, your point was indeed nonsensical. You're obviously heavily invested in the freedom aspect of this question, which is fine. But you made a leap from a simple would-you question to civil rights and racism. That was a total non-sequitor. And the two have nothing to do with one another here. Take a logic class. The do some reading about civil rights. The right to be served alcohol isn't among those. That's another matter entirely.
Except that I wasn't talking about the effects of weed on a fetus. You compared to the government completely banning it, which is entirely different then comparing it to smoking while pregnant.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
I was simply talking about the banning of it in general, which is what you were using in your comparison.
no someone else made that comparison i think. you got the wrong guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by vileoxidation
That doesn't change the fact that I wasn't at all talking about the effect of weed of fetuses. It wasn't part of the debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
you said..Quote:
Originally Posted by vileoxidation
"If weed caused something as awful as FAS, this might be a valid argument...
The government has little to no real research to back up their claims about the harm of weed. The harm of alcohol on fetuses is VERY well-proven and well-documented, and is more of a danger to society then weed really is at all."
so therefore..you were talking about the effect of weed on a fetus?
correct my mistake if im wrong.
I have been a Bartender for the past 4 years and on the rare occasion that a pregger asked for a drink I would only serve them non alcoholic drinks. It looks bad for the bartender and the rest of the establishment to be serving liquor to pregnant women. Plus it also saves her some embarrassment, and I don't feel bad because I didnt contribute to possible birth defects with a human being.... we are already fucked up as it is the last thing we need is more people born all fucked up.
Okay....Quote:
Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
The government has little to no real research to back up their claims about the harm of weed.
Does that sentence include anything about fetuses? The harm of weed IN GENERAL. I think I already made it clear that I was talking about the banning of weed in general, which was the original comparison that was made.
And even if that's not enough for you, then take it like this: fine, YOU'RE RIGHT, I said it wrong. That doesn't change what I was actually talking about, which I have reiterated multiple times now.