Any other "conservative" christians out there
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsn9333
Awesome. I'm glad to hear smoking helped you find your faith. And btw, I'm pretty deep in the 'conservative Christian' movement, and I don't know anyone who teaches men of dark skin (or of any color skin) were bred to serve anyone.
The bible pretty clearly is ok with slavery:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm
Any other "conservative" christians out there
Thanks. At least it's good to know there are other's out there somewhere. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity
though i am an atheist, my oldest and dearest friends in the world are the type of christians you are talking about. though i have never pressed the point with them, they seem to have no problem with combining christianity and weed. they also seem to have no problem combining their faith and associating with heathens like me. i have, however, noticed that many conservative christians have a tendency to be law abiding to the extreme. which means that, no matter how asinine the regulation, they will blindly follow the rules so long as it does not interfere with their religious principles.
see, i was nice about it. i can work and play nicely with others, even though i find their beliefs..... (sigh) there i go again
Any other "conservative" christians out there
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange floyd
The bible pretty clearly is ok with slavery:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Slavery in the Bible
Floyd, I understand your approach here. But jsn9333 is a Christian who follows the principles of the New Testament, which was an all new covenant (contract) between God and man, with Jesus' life as the collateral, if you will. What you're quoting from is the Old Testament, which is, well, old LOL!
By the way, I'm not Christian. I'm Wiccan, working toward my degree and ordination. My grandfather on my paternal side was a Methodist minister, and both my maternal grandparents were pastors in the Church of God. I myself was raised Southern Baptist, and used to teach Sunday school and Vacation Bible School.
Any other "conservative" christians out there
Yes, slavery existed in the old testament. One thing to keep in mind is that often being a slave was more of what we, nowadays, would call being a "servant". People would sell themselves into slavery as a means to escape poverty. This is quite different from the early American/African version of slavery that comments like, "men of dark skin were bred to serve," bring to mind.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the Christ along with the New Testament came after the Old Testament and brought it into new light. The Old Testament is followed strictly by no one nowadays... not even orthodox Jews. Christians generally still obey parts of the Old Testament that are repeated in the New, such as the 10 commandments, etc. But most of the intricate commandments of the Old Testament are not applicable today.
While the Old Testament is useful to get a picture of how God has worked in the past, it is useless to live by today. It had its purpose, and that purpose was to point to Christ and the better way that is available to us all today. The new testament says in the book of Hebrews chpt 7, "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God." That better hope is Christ, and the New Testament.
In order to criticize Christianity (which isn't necessarily a bad thing to do), it is generally a good idea to either quote a particular Christian directly or to quote the New Testament. Much of the Old Testament (at least the by-law type parts that you have cited) is irrelevant to the beliefs of Christians. To cite random verses from the Old Testament in order to show something about Christian beliefs often just shows an ignorance of what Christianity actually is. I'm not saying that is you... but I'm just not sure how the Old Testament verses about slavery is relevant to modern Christian beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange floyd
The bible pretty clearly is ok with slavery:
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Slavery in the Bible
Any other "conservative" christians out there
jesus never said to disregard the old testament.
i havent read the bible in a while, but i do remember the pharaciest (dont know how to spell) saying something along the lines of "oh yeah i see your here to get rid of the law of moses" and jesus denied doing anything of that sort.
Any other "conservative" christians out there
i realize yea i might be coming off a little harsh, and you seem like a nice guy (assuming you are a guy, and my apologies if you arent). i just feel really strongly against christianity, after all the suffering its brought to the world, i find it to be illogical, and i jsut feel that we'd all be better off without it. however i think more important than stopping christianity is allowing people to practice whatever religion you want, and you seem to be a very tolerant person who doesn't force their faith on others. so lets all just share the love and smoke some weed haha:jointsmile:
Any other "conservative" christians out there
jsn93333, All I have to say to you is you're letting Christianity run your mind/life. You "literally" follow the new testaments, haven't you thought that the writings are more metaphorical than literal... If there was a true god in essence, GOD would be ALL-loving to everyone and everything, because God created everything. Oh, and not to mention the books themselves are biased to shit Jesus himself didn't write them. Therefore your testaments are of a humanized,
non-omnipotent God.
I believe Christianity above all is a deceiving, discriminating, racist, sexist, and last but not least JUDGEMENTAL cult.
Just my 2 cents.
Any other "conservative" christians out there
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinusRyan
jsn93333, All I have to say to you is you're letting Christianity run your mind/life. You "literally" follow the new testaments, haven't you thought that the writings are more metaphorical than literal... If there was a true god in essence, GOD would be ALL-loving to everyone and everything, because God created everything. Oh, and not to mention the books themselves are biased to shit Jesus himself didn't write them. Therefore your testaments are of a humanized,
non-omnipotent God.
I believe Christianity above all is a deceiving, discriminating, racist, sexist, and last but not least JUDGEMENTAL cult.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm highly spiritual and I believe strongly in a driving force behind this world that is mystical and magical (smoking some good shit helped me realize this. I don't think the "God" believed in by Christians is a part of it at all. Having said that, feel free to believe whatever.
Any other "conservative" christians out there
He never said to disregard it, you're right. What Christ said to the pharisees is, more or less, that He didn't come to "get rid" of the law, but rather to fulfill it.
And Christians (including the immediate disciples of Christ himself who wrote the New Testament) believe that to mean, basically, that the Old Testament is not "abolished". Rather, it is still useful in that it points to Christ. The purpose of the old testament law was to show Israel (and the modern church) how futile it is to try to work your way to heaven with a complicated set of morals (or work your way to heaven at all). It shows us, now, that the only way to peace with God is faith. So it isn't abolished... it is just fulfilled in Christ.
Anyway, I'm sure you have good reasons to feel strongly against Christianity. There's a lot of hypocrisy out there and a lot of bullshit. So right on... let's just light one up and share the love. :rasta:
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange floyd
jesus never said to disregard the old testament.
i havent read the bible in a while, but i do remember the pharaciest (dont know how to spell) saying something along the lines of "oh yeah i see your here to get rid of the law of moses" and jesus denied doing anything of that sort.
...i realize yea i might be coming off a little harsh, and you seem like a nice guy (assuming you are a guy, and my apologies if you arent). i just feel really strongly against christianity, after all the suffering its brought to the world, i find it to be illogical, and i jsut feel that we'd all be better off without it. however i think more important than stopping christianity is allowing people to practice whatever religion you want, and you seem to be a very tolerant person who doesn't force their faith on others. so lets all just share the love and smoke some weed haha
Any other "conservative" christians out there
My father was a good man (he died of cancer in 2001). He had a part in 'creating' me. But the fact that he was good and created me doesn't mean he accepted everything I did. Sometimes he had to discipline me for my own good. And he had to let me choose whether or not I wanted to love him and have him be part of my life (once I came of age). He could not force me to be anything other then what I chose to be.
God likewise doesn't accept everything we do. And He also gives us free will to be able to choose whether or not to love and obey Him. If we commit sin against Him, we will suffer for it. And if we deny Him, He will not force us into an eternal life with Him. He will let us wander from Him... even to eternity away from Him and all that is good. That doesn't mean He is evil. It means He values freedom and love... because love cannot be forced on anyone.
Jesus did not physically write the New Testament books. No doubt, you are correct. However, they were written by men who personally walked and lived with Jesus for years. They recorded His teachings as Scripture, and they wrote and taught as He did. I have no problem with the fact that the Scriptures are humanized. The manuscripts we have today are 99% accurate to the earliest ones we have historically. They were preserved and respected from the very beginning. It's the number one best seller of all time. :) And it doesn't hold that title because it is foolish and full of lies. When people come to it with an open mind, they generally grow to learn from and love it.
As far as being judgmental... everyone is judgmental to a certain degree. Some people are willing to admit it. Some people are only willing to point it out in other people. Anyway... I have thought of the metaphorical vs. literal debate a lot. When it comes down to it, Christ was a historical figure. Rare is the historian who would disagree with that. And none would disagree of the historical truth of the disciples who all died holding to their teachings about their Teacher Christ. This is history, not day-dreams. These are real people and real, literal teachings... not just analogies someone made up and written down a hundred years ago to help everyone get along better.
If someone's conscience lets them stick to the metaphorical method of following the Scriptures, so be it. But to me, that generally turns into more of a "salad bar" type of christianity where people pick and choose what parts of God's teachings they want to obey and what parts they want to disregard. I for one say when it comes to believing in God and obeying him, folks need to shit or get off the pot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinusRyan
jsn93333, All I have to say to you is you're letting Christianity run your mind/life. You "literally" follow the new testaments, haven't you thought that the writings are more metaphorical than literal... If there was a true god in essence, GOD would be ALL-loving to everyone and everything, because God created everything. Oh, and not to mention the books themselves are biased to shit Jesus himself didn't write them. Therefore your testaments are of a humanized,
non-omnipotent God.
I believe Christianity above all is a deceiving, discriminating, racist, sexist, and last but not least JUDGEMENTAL cult.
Just my 2 cents.
