how come..

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I think there are plenty of christians and atheists who are open to the idea that they're wrong, but nobody on these boards has a debate to convince their opponent of "here's why I may be wrong: number one......". Everybody arives at their conclusions, at least for the most part, because it seems like the most logical answer to them. I'm an atheist, but that's not because it's my "religion" that I blindly cling to (as many theists try to argue), but because there's no logical reason to believe in god that I've yet seen. If somebody suddenly presents me with a reason to believe in god, something that isn't logically fallable, then I'll gladly become a believer.... not to mention let out a sigh of relief that I'm not going to blink out of existence one day.

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Some quotes out of the Bible that speak to me personaly...They really helped to form my beliefs...



Luke 8:11

11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.



John 1:1-4

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.



John 10 27-30

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.



1 John 4:8

8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.



John 10:14

4. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Love is pure, it comforts, and leads us out of darkness. Our carnal nature is to embrace anger, fear, bitterness, violence, and hate. Love takes these away, and can give us serenity in time. If God is Love, then he opposes that which makes our hearts dark, and when we embrace him,[Love] he allows us to be free from these things. Serenity is the 'fruit' when you let the seed take root, and grow.

The seed is Love, and also the word of God, and God. (It's not the Bible) Jesus claimed to be one with God, and this simply means that he was "one with Love". This is my understanding; others will certainly disagree...


Much Love...

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Originally Posted by MegaOctane12

I'm not sure what you meant there about nobody has a debate to convince their opponent?

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What I was saying is that nobody holds a debate to disprove themselves, only to disprove their opponents. Hence, the "not considering the other viewpoint", in my humble opinion, is largely the result of a preocupation with proving what they already believe, rather than listening to what their opponent believes.

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Which side are you referring. I've seen plenty of good logical debate against the exsistance of God, but religious people are incapable of listening to it. If you think about it there are logically reasons to belief in God. Economical, cultural reasons; and many other thing's. Logic to someone who dosen't share your belief, whatever that may be, would be alien to you and vise versa. Its not about whether God is factual or that it can be proven. Its whether having faith in God has a purpose either way.

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Indeed, there are plenty of culturally or otherwise "logical" reasons for faith in god, but I'm only talking about the logical interpretation of evidence to support the existence of this claimed entity.

I don't mean to put anybody down here, but to me "faith" seems like an insult to the human intellect. Somehow we attach possitive reinforcement to this "faith", or in other words believing not because there is any sound logic in doing so, but simply because there are moral and spiritual rewards in having it. Essentially we are told that unquestioningly believing god exists, will have you reap rewards and a closer bond to god. But it's horribly circular logic of "does god exist? if you believe he does then he'll reward you. Therefore god exists". Faith is, in essence, conditioning the human mind to put desire/emotion before reasoning.

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Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho

how come alot of atheists and agnostics can admit their speculations about god may be wrong, but christians, and other people who believe in god, can't admit they may be wrong?

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Because the Church will have you believe that if you were to ever question your faith, you've been tempted by Satan OMG OMG!!!!11!1. That, and they've been "forced," through concepts of Hell and damnation, to act and think a certain way before they're old enough to even think for themselves (Jesus Camp comes to mind CLick me).
I'm an atheist (by default), but I'd be more than happy to convert to any religion that could prove to me that they ideals are true.

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Originally Posted by MegaOctane12

Totaly disagree man, I'm no theologian, but I know that countrys like Africa for example, and the majority of its states adopted Christianity, so that pretty much flattens the blood ties argument.

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i ment blood as in death
further more I believe that Christianity has spread more because it is such an appealing religion

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

Essentially we are told that unquestioningly believing god exists, will have you reap rewards and a closer bond to god. But it's horribly circular logic of "does god exist? if you believe he does then he'll reward you. Therefore god exists". Faith is, in essence, conditioning the human mind to put desire/emotion before reasoning.

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I like. There are some good arguments, just only philosophers know them. So itâ??s not to say anyone justifies there beliefs with them.




A small thought experiment. (donâ??t want to discuss it on the thread though)

Think about the best thing that could happen when you die.
Think about the simplest way the universe was created.
Now think about the best way to control a big populationâ?¦

Hmmm

If you doubt, then you haven't found evidence. On an earthly level, I would agree that one must admit the possibility for error. But you can apply that to anything and it won't prove anything. So we're back to faith. To me, faith is invisible substance. Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean I don't have proof of him. I am the substance. But if you don't believe me, that's your problem. So just as the christian is to admit that he could be wrong, the unbeliever should consider the christian point of view. The visible things in this world are all for teachings of the unseen world. It will always come down to faith.

Like the body, we need to feed the soul daily. :pimp:

faith is an absolute!!!
a TRUE believer can have no doubts, it's the nature of the beast. be they christian, moslem, buddhist, or atheist; if they are committed then doubt is impossible. if doubt exists then they are only wanna-be's or seekers or, worst of all, frauds.

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/

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further more I believe that Christianity has spread more because it is such an appealing religion

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Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

no that idiot should have been committed

it has been said that all prayers are answered but sometimes the answer is "no"

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/



Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

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i ment appealing as in. It presents wonderful answers to difficult questions. IE death.

People want to believe that happends

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/



Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

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i guess that kinda proves god dosn't exist. dosn't it?

more so, if god wanted people to be christians so bad that he would send them to hell if they werenâ??t. why dosn't he just show everyone that he exists. it wouldn't be hard.