My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Originally Posted by Pyramidsonmars
--on the contrary, I know the bible can be taken in the wrong way if you chose, but reading it honestly might paint a different picture for you.
Who decides what is the "right way" and the "wrong way" to read it? You?
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--God has put us where we are for reasons. In the case of masters and slaves what God is saying is that whatever your roll is, you should pursue it with all your heart.
So if your role is that of a black slave being whipped on a plantation, you should pursue that role with all your heart? If you're a Jew in Nazi Germany and your masters are sending you to the concentration camps, you should pursue that role with all your heart? Come on. It's perfectly okay for slaves to reject the social role assigned to them and fight for freedom. If you can't see this basic truth then, well, I feel sorry for you.
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--It also says that husbands should love their wives. That is naturally how a husband/wife would best get a long. I've experienced this; women need to be loved and to know they are loved. Men who are called by God to do something need to have patient wives who will not attempt to stop them.
Why should the wife play the inferior role? Why should it not be the wife's right to have a patient husband who will not attempt to stop her? Because she has a vagina? Just because it says you're supposed to be nice to your wife doesn't change the fact that the Bible is essentially telling all wives to be slaves to their husband's will. And that is blatant sexism no matter how you look at it. It's the 21st century, man. We no longer treat women as second-class citizens, and the world is much better that way.
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The key is that last line. We who never accept God; who consistently say no when God knocks in our hearts, are without excuse. God has called every person here in some way; perhaps God has led you to a forum where his truth is being discussed, perhaps it's the missionairies that came last week. What I'm saying is that God, who has written himself into our hearts, is continually trying to call us, and the only way we could not hear Him is if we continually choose not to listen; the alterantive to God is essentailly what we know as "bad", therefore when we are doing good we are following God, but the bad thigns we do lead us down a path further and further away from God, so that when we die, God is no longer anywhere to be found.
Well, your God hasn't done a good enough job at trying to call me, because my telephone isn't ringing. I have looked at the world around me, and I have not found one piece of conclusive evidence which would prove the existence of God or gods. If there is such a thing as God/gods, he/they would know that all I want is to see some conclusive proof. Why can't he/they write a message in the stars? Why can't he/they appear in my room and say "Hey, man, this is the one true religion"? It's not that I'm "refusing to listen" to your God any more than you are refusing to listen to Vishnu, or Zeus, or Thor. If any of these gods existed, they could easily convince everybody of their existence. But they don't. Either they don't exist, or they want me to continue being an atheist for some reason. All gods in all religions have one thing in common: they are completely invisible and completely silent. Ever wonder why?
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I've noticed such a trend in eastern philosophy and religion. I believe this is because the western world itself has been crumbling morally; we realise this and blame the "belief system" that is most popular, but in actuallity I think it's a cultural flaw.
I don't think the world is "crumbling morally". I think, on the contrary, that we've made great advances toward becoming more moral over the centuries. And this has a lot to do with rejecting ideas that have traditionally been promoted by religious institutions (especially Christian ones), such as slavery, sexism and homophobia.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
Ya been down that road before. I know all the ins and outs of fundemental Christianity. For one..tell her that there are contradicting resurrection stories, as Luke says there were 2 angels at the tomb...but in Mark there is just a man at the tomb. Remember that Mark was supposedly the first canonical gospel written (besides the Gospel of Thomas which some say is the Q source) and Matthew and Luke were just expanded versions of Mark. John is in a category of its own.
However since there is a contradiction, the whole faith shatters because they are told the Bible is infalliable without contradictions. See how she reacts to this.
Tell her that the true meaning of Christianity is love, and if we all love with compassion, we will all become Christs!
Remember..."the kingdom of God is within you!"
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
Well, i'll join the converstion and try to do my best. First, im a christian. I was exposed to it as a child but never really believed it until I was about 16.
First off though, i'll talk about hell. The LORD warns us about hell a lot in the new testament. It's not really something a believer should ever worry about and is often looked at as something people used to scare others into christianity. Heres my explination of hell
Every animal (excluding humans) were created with only one form, the physical form. Humans were created with both a physical body and a spirit. God is spirit and humans were made in the image of God, therefore our spirit is this image. The LORD is eternal and so is our spirit, or at least immortal. Since our spirits never die, and this is the way God ment it to be, we will either spend eternity with our God, or in hell. After the white thorn judgment, humans will be granted their new bodies (thoes whos spirits did not recive one at rapture) and these ones will be like our spirit, immortal. The first man to recive this new body was Jesus when he rose from the dead. Anyway, after this judgment, people will procede to either the new earth, or the lake of fire (aka hell). Know this, hell was not intended for humans, it was the final place for satan to be punished but humans who deny the LORD will also be put here. This is simply because the LORD will not kill what he made immortal. God has made PLENTY of warnings in the bible of hell so noone can plead ignorance. The LORD loves us and wishes we pick the path of life, the path to eternal life with God in his kingdom. He definatly does not want us to be in hell.
Any questions and i'll try to answer to the best of my ability.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
I call myself a christian i guess. I believe in jesus, and think that for the most part people would be better off if they listened to him, but there are a lot of things in the dogma that i do not agree with. I am really interested in gnostic christianity though. It almost seems like the 'true' christianity that jesus wanted. There is too much control in organized religion.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Originally Posted by halo
I call myself a christian i guess. I believe in jesus, and think that for the most part people would be better off if they listened to him, but there are a lot of things in the dogma that i do not agree with. I am really interested in gnostic christianity though. It almost seems like the 'true' christianity that jesus wanted. There is too much control in organized religion.
If there is actualy too much controle as far as the church goes, then thats because of man. It's not supposed to be that way, the purpose of the church is to spread the word of christianity and to gather the believers to learn. Its really not supposed to do anything other then that. I find one of the most important parts of being a christian is very individualistic. People are supposed to have a relation with the LORD on the most personal level possible. Although you may not be inclined to speak and ask questions and not get immidiate answers, I can assure you they will come at some point. Really, "christian" is just a name to catagorize things, from the teachings of a bible, true christianity is the path to life.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
Fake it... It'll make your mamma a happy woman, and she'll die knowing her son is going to meet her up in heaven. Hopefully not for a long time of course. That way if there isn't an afterlife she'll have a happier currentlife, and if there is some idealistic "christians only" reserved heaven, you're going to hell either way.
Nobody loses.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Firstly; what moral disagreements do you have with the christian walk of life?
This will be obvious to you soon enough.
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Secondly; only God can truley convince you of anything in this sense. Pls don't ever "join a religion", but rather accept truth as it comes (and it may come in the form of a religion - personally it has for me) Now if you are concidering christianity, the best thing to do is to pray and ask God to show you if it's right or not. After that it's important that you read and educate yourself. In my case the more I read and prayed, the more I understood what the bible was actually talking about, and it's only ever grown since.
Ok, I believe in something, what that something is (God) I'm not entirely sure. I'm also very uncertain wether it/he/she interferes with anything mankind does on earth. Perhaps, I belive God is simply the creative, life giving force of the universe?
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Btw, the christian "walk of life" is exactly what Christ did. In fact it's modeled after him, therefore read what Jesus did and who he was, not what "christians" are like or what the church does, because in my heart I know the church, as it now stands, does nothing but hide in its building. Christ was a healer; a medicine for the sick - the kindness and love in the world...and that's what he asks us to be.
I can honor, and respect what Jesus did as a person, and what I believe his message to be. (Love) But, The Christian walk is not 'exactly' what Jesus did. Jesus gave himself for sacrifice, whereas Christians put all their sins on him, for 'him' to pay for in attempt to weasle out of responsibility for their actions on earth. (Moral delimma)
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The concept of Jesus forgivign sins is somethign I had a hard time with until I was more educated in the details. What christ was, was a new covenant from God for mankind. First God gave us the law (old testiment), not because he wanted us to follow it, but because he wanted us to see that we could never follow it by any human effort. God has called the law a "stumbling stone"; something for us to trip over, in order to show us what we were supposed to be like, and what is now (becuase of sin) unreachable by our human effort. As it now stands we are not perfect; we are born to SIN.
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. Life is meant to build character, imo. and through our mistakes, and shortcomings, and trials, and errors we learn, and become better persons. (if you embrace the bad with the good) We were never meant to be 'perfect' as far as I'm concerned. Although, I think striving for perfection is an honorable endeavor.
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Bottom line. Christ, who was concieved by the Holy Spirit, was God's child not becuase of direct lineage, but out of spiritual harmony. Jesus was God's child much like Adam was God's child before he fell into sin. That's why Jesus is called the second Adam. When Jesus lived, he lived as we were all intended to live: in direct contact and relationship with God. Jesus was God in a way we could comprehend. We can't comprehend God, and therefore none of us can Know Him, but we can comprehend Jesus because Jesus was a man. We now, through faith in Jesus, can know and understand God - we can hear God in our hearts.
I don't beleive that Jesus was God's son anymore than we, all mankind, are God's sons, and daughters. I don't think we can ever truly understand God, but the bilble says that if you know love...you know God. I believe the 'holy spirit' is love, btw...
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God had to sacrifice Jesus because of sin. Once sin entered the world, death entered it. Jesus has told us that our sins are forgiven if we believe in God's sacrifice. And when we ask Jesus into our hearts, he becomes our heart and our mind (if we chose to let him of course). It is only because you have invited God to be inside you that you will be able to change, with God's help. Because of our sin, we must die, but because Jesus, who is God's son, died for us, God raised up again. If we believe this than Jesus is alive inside us; his Holy Spirit is now what we have, rather than our own spirit of sinful nature, God does the same for us: we may find hope in our faith, much like in the Old Testiment where it is written "Abraham believed in God, and so God credited it to him as righteous". God asks only for our faith if we are to know him.
I don't think I believe in the concept of 'sin', either. There are certainly positives, and negatives, but I think both are nescessary for a balanced life. Remember, we learn from our mistakes which makes sin something desired if you are to grow into better persons.
I also don't get why God is so angry, and vengful, and blood thirsty, either. The old testament was bad enough with its 'blood' sacrifices, but the the new testament took it a step further, and actually incorporated 'human' sacrifice. (Another moral delima)
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sorry, this is a little sloppy but hopefully it gives you a clearer perseption of why Jesus's dying was so important.
I still don't see why Jesus' death was so important. I believe in taking responsibility for my actions, and I fully accept any, and all consequences because of them. Why do Christians feel the need to 'cover' their sins, and let another be punished for what they did. I'll tell you something, I have a son myself, and if my son was locked up for what someone else did, I'd be PISSED! Why would God honor anyone who attempts to weasle out of responsibilty, who actually make concious effort to put their burdons on someone else and allow them to 'suffer' for what they did?
Again, I can respect Jesus for trying, but the whole concept has to do with escaping responsiblity. I don't get it! Why not offer up yourselve's instead of offering up another? This would seem to hold more moral ground in my eyes...
I don't understand why a loving, merciful God would demand innocent blood to be sacrificed to appease him...It's just sadistic!
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
Ok, I believe in something, what that something is (God) I'm not entirely sure. I'm also very uncertain wether it/he/she interferes with anything mankind does on earth. Perhaps, I belive God is simply the creative, life giving force of the universe?
Maybe you can use praying, or attending church, or whatever, to pay homage to the fact that God did make the Universe and he made it for you.
Kind of, like, eating turkey on Thanksgiving.
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs
Maybe you can use praying, or attending church, or whatever, to pay homage to the fact that God did make the Universe and he made it for you.
Kind of, like, eating turkey on Thanksgiving.
Not much on praying, and I can't stand church, but I'll pay homage by enjoying, embracing, and living my life to the best of my ability. I figure we may has well enjoy our time here, and strive to make it (Life) better for future generations. Seems only appropriate to accept whats been given, and embrace both the good and bad in life. I think both serve a purpose for our empowerment. (Humankind)
I think I may be considered somewhat humanist...I truly believe that mankind has the potential, and power to be, and do great things for creation.
We are the dominant species, after all. I think it is up to us to usher in a paradise 'of sorts' on earth. I think it is unwise to leave it all up to a god, or Jesus to do it for us...
Responsibility is ours. It's high time we realize that 'we' are in control of the fate of mankind...not some God that may, or may not exist at all!
My mom is trying to convert me to Christianity!
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
Ok, I believe in something, what that something is (God) I'm not entirely sure. I'm also very uncertain wether it/he/she interferes with anything mankind does on earth. Perhaps, I belive God is simply the creative, life giving force of the universe?
Well Jesus calls those who believe in Him His "body". Further more, if you read Acts, or the letters from Paul, you will see an elaboration on this. Believers have something called the Holy Spirit. The bible tells us that this is literally a "person"; the "teacher" and "councelor", sent by Jesus when he returned to heaven. That is why after he leaves the second time he tells his diciples to go to Jerusalem and pray until they recieve the "gift" Jesus had promised them (the Holy Spirit). It is through Christ in us that we have the Holy Spirit, the teacher who guides our thoughts and helps us identify God, and whatever truth he gives us. Only someone with the Holy Spirit will really be able to see what God is telling us through scripture, and it is then up to us to share that with non-believers in a way that God provides us. Even these words I'm typing now are under the influence of the Holy Spirit, otherwise, in my darkness I would have no undrestanding. In Romans Paul writes about this:
Romans 1
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorâ??who is forever praised. Amen.
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
What is being written here is about all of us; humanity as a whole. What sin is, by definition, is a seperation from God. Once you say something hurtfull to your sister, you've turned your back away from God; you've denied him. The second you say in your heart "this poor man doesn't get my money" you've said this same thing to God. We don't want to think about it, but you can't ever turn back towards God except by first asking Him for forgiveness. Are we allowed to do this? Maybe. I definetly think God coming and dying for us was a pretty good sign that we can. This is where Christ comes in.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
I can honor, and respect what Jesus did as a person, and what I believe his message to be. (Love) But, The Christian walk is not 'exactly' what Jesus did. Jesus gave himself for sacrifice, whereas Christians put all their sins on him, for 'him' to pay for in attempt to weasle out of responsibility for their actions on earth. (Moral delimma)
Christians live in constant sacrifice (well yes, some do and some don't). It's called sacrifice only here on earth. In heaven it's simply the way of the land. Christ asks us that we constantly give to our brothers and sisters (not only those in our family, but outside as well) when they are in need. If we are giving, God is providing us an abundance, and endless source to give from. Asking Christ to forgive my sins is the first step; the second is to pursue the Kingdom of God; to be as best I can a "child of God" as God sees fit. There is no "weasling out" of responsibility, unless of course you would say that any time you say "sorry" to someone you wrong you're weasling out of them staying angry. God doesn't wish to be angry at us; he holds no grudge once we come to Him humbled and recieve the forgiveness he has given us. God is love, and one of the most powerfull forms of love is forgiveness; it is the backbone to re-establishing a relationship with our Creator that we are responsible for breaking.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. Life is meant to build character, imo. and through our mistakes, and shortcomings, and trials, and errors we learn, and become better persons. (if you embrace the bad with the good) We were never meant to be 'perfect' as far as I'm concerned. Although, I think striving for perfection is an honorable endeavor.
We don't ever learn, because humanity has been making the same mistakes since it first begun. Feeling guilt is a sign that we have sinned, though some feel less guilt than others because they kill themselves in that way. Striving for perfection is impossible for our Flesh; it is born hating, and slandering and gossiping. Our souls can be perfect by being baptized; washed in the blood of Christ.
Revelations reads:
13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robesâ??who are they, and where did they come from?"
14I answered, "Sir, you know."
And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,
"they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
[QUOTE=JunkYard]
I don't beleive that Jesus was God's son anymore than we, all mankind, are God's sons, and daughters. I don't think we can ever truly understand God, but the bilble says that if you know love...you know God. I believe the 'holy spirit' is love, btw...
You're very right to say Jesus was God's son anymore than we are. The truth of the matter is that Jesus is in direct lineage of David, who is a decendent of Abraham, who, if you trace the line back to it's beginnings, is a decendent of Adam - the first child of God. We are no longer God's children, because we have cut our relationship off with him. Christ was God's only child (at that time) because God more or less had to make a "new Adam" (like I said Jesus is referred to a couple of times as the "second Adam" - the new "only child") It is by being baptized by Christ that we become christ - or I should say He becomes alive in us. That is when we can be children of God once more, who do what God asks us to do obediently, serving Him every day in what ways he calls us too. The "Holy Spirit" is love like God is love, but love isn't the Holy Spirit. That's a misunderstanding of scripture. The Holy Spirit is the one who shows us God's will. "He only repeats what he hears God say".
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
I don't think I believe in the concept of 'sin', either. There are certainly positives, and negatives, but I think both are nescessary for a balanced life. Remember, we learn from our mistakes which makes sin something desired if you are to grow into better persons.
Who's to say that you ever become better when you wrong someone? The only mistakes I've ever learned from are the big ones, and even then I often fall victim to the same temptations.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
I also don't get why God is so angry, and vengful, and blood thirsty, either. The old testament was bad enough with its 'blood' sacrifices, but the the new testament took it a step further, and actually incorporated 'human' sacrifice. (Another moral delima)
Watch the news - that is why God is so angry. My friend, what I really must stress is that you (and I, and everyone else) closely watch our own actions, and really pay attention to the intentions of our hearts when we do things. Do we do things for selfish reasons? Yes. Do we hate others in our hearts? Yes. Do we feed everyone who needs it? No, infact we take more for ourselves. All of us...you do it too my friend; so do I. God demanded blood as sacrifice. Death infact was the result of sin. And in the old testiment, when one had sinned (which happens more than they realised I'm sure) God asked them to sacrifice something in their place. When we live our sinful lives, we are already dead to God, who lives outside of time. Life is found in christ, and we are once again alive in God's eyes.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
I still don't see why Jesus' death was so important. I believe in taking responsibility for my actions, and I fully accept any, and all consequences because of them. Why do Christians feel the need to 'cover' their sins, and let another be punished for what they did. I'll tell you something, I have a son myself, and if my son was locked up for what someone else did, I'd be PISSED! Why would God honor anyone who attempts to weasle out of responsibilty, who actually make concious effort to put their burdons on someone else and allow them to 'suffer' for what they did?
Accepting the thing I've done wrong, saying I'm sorry to God, and accepting the new conditions that God has laid down is taking responsibility. The new conditions are that God's child has died instead of me (but he didn't die! He was raised from the dead; he defeated death. That's the promise. We, as children of God, will not die either) and that I have to accept that, believe in it, and allow it to transform me. Having God's sacrifice Jesus LIVE inside me means I might have a hope of repenting. Because I, on my own, am futile in understanding even the things I do wrong.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
Again, I can respect Jesus for trying, but the whole concept has to do with escaping responsiblity. I don't get it! Why not offer up yourselve's instead of offering up another? This would seem to hold more moral ground in my eyes...
Offering yourself means death. It means saying "Ok God, I continue to do the thigns I do, but I'll pay the penalty after". That penalty is death.
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Originally Posted by JunkYard
I don't understand why a loving, merciful God would demand innocent blood to be sacrificed to appease him...It's just sadistic!
Because God was alive in Jesus, Jesus willingly did this. Jesus shed His blood as His sacrifice to God. Jesus did this out of pure love, because he wanted us to escape eternal death. There is no greater gift in the history of humanity. Jesus was raised from the dead; his blood baptizes the spirits of those who believe in him. Jesus is the Lamb, the sacrificial Lamb, out of God's love that is inside him, and because of this God has placed him at his right hand. This is the sacrifice that each and every person should be willing to give, but because Jesus was the first Child of God in the world, he did it.
On reading the bible, I've found parts that I couldn't explain, or even disagreed with. The problem isn't in those things themselves, but in my understanding of them. Fortunatly the bible ties itself together, and my doubts are often cleared up by other verses referring to those things in a different light. Reading and educating yourself is the only real way to understand what the bible is talking about in any given place. Some significant thigns won't become significant until you learn background information.
Anyway, God is alive right now in your intrest in Christianity. I will only ever tell you the facts - I'm not trying to convert you or tamper with your beliefs, but rather to offer my voice in any way that helps. God bless!
